Mark Jamar

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

How good was he?

And how important has he been?

He would have been a lifetime MFC legend if he took that touched ball in the last.

But amongst all the frivolity, there's a cold hard fact we and the footy department have to come to terms with. If we keep relying on him in this way, he's going to get hurt. He was BEYOND stuffed in the last quarter (which makes his courage all the more impressive), and if he keeps this up, he's going to get at the least, a soft tissue injury, and at worst, something unthinkable.

We've gone 9 rounds more or less with him on his own. It's time to perhaps even give him a rest...

Along with this thinking, I reckon posters here and elsewhere need to realise he's going to need to play less over the next month or two, and that kids will be playing, likely less effectively. And even further on that thinking, our midfield will look a little less impressive without him.

Deal with it people.

PS, I'm aware Spencer was selected originally.

[Eth 4]

That's why we recruited Max Gawn and Jack Fitzpatrick. In three-four years, we'll have three very capable ruckman, two of which can play forward as well :D

[deewakka 1]

Yeah good comments Dappa let the other ruckmen earn a spot just like miller has had too big Mark has been a revelation

[Jaded No More 68,975]

We did the right thing not playing another ruckman tonight (imagine Spencer and Aussie out there in the last quarter instead of Jetta), but we can't do it consistently.

I think the footy department is well aware of that, and Spencer will play next week (or Martin if he's fit).

Jamar relishes playing alone, but he probably doesn't enjoy feeling like he's going to drop dead afterwards. Still, he has to be given a lot of credit for the way he has played this year. He is comfortably in the top 3 or 4 ruckman in the competition.

[DeeSpencer 26,301]

Unless injuries I think it has to be Wona out Spencer in next week. Wona provided little up forward. Let's give big Jake a fair run against Mark Blake, resting Jamar forward as well.

[Old Gregg 1]

Not sure why they had Sylvia and not Miller in the ruck in the last...at least Miller had a strong body to contest, not dance with, the opposition ruckman. Definitely need a backup ruckman in some form, whether that be experience in Johnson, or versatility in Martin or even someone like Dunn. Also, can't forget that the game was in horrible conditions, so it sucked heaps more out of him than normal.

No Spencer

[Eth 4]

Spencer - NO.

Martin - NO.

Dunn - YES

Chuck Wonna out, replace him with Dunn.

[Nasher 33,617]

Not sure why they had Sylvia and not Miller in the ruck in the last...at least Miller had a strong body to contest, not dance with, the opposition ruckman. Definitely need a backup ruckman in some form, whether that be experience in Johnson, or versatility in Martin or even someone like Dunn. Also, can't forget that the game was in horrible conditions, so it sucked heaps more out of him than normal.

No Spencer

Miller too important forward at the time.

After tonight, I've got no friggin' idea whether or not I want another ruckman in the side. Jamar can't go it alone forever clearly, he was completely dead on his feet, but as Jaded points out it's hard to imagine how we could've been better off with Spencer playing instead of Jetta. Too hard. Thank $deity I'm an armchair supporter and not a selector.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Depending on fitness we can bring Bate in for, possibly, Aussie. Miller stays and pinch hits in the ruck. Jaded makes a good point regardless though - Jamar can't keep doing it alone with 2-3 minute breaks for the rest of the year as he needs help. Where that comes from is anybodies guess!

[RalphiusMaximus 6,103]

Just looking at the stats.

Jamar had more hitouts than the all opposition rucks.

Dean Brogan is third on the hitouts for this season, yet could only manage 18 against Jamar. Many of those came against Sylvia.

I know we're worried about him burning out, but with the form he's in it's a hard call to make him spend more time on the bench.

[BAMF 4,433]

Someone must come in to relive Jamar. He will burn out very quickly at this rate.

I would be very happy bringing Spencer in for Wonna. This is a development year. Spencer needs development.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,299]

Miller too important forward at the time.

After tonight, I've got no friggin' idea whether or not I want another ruckman in the side. Jamar can't go it alone forever clearly, he was completely dead on his feet, but as Jaded points out it's hard to imagine how we could've been better off with Spencer playing instead of Jetta. Too hard. Thank $deity I'm an armchair supporter and not a selector.

Tonight was played in conditions that you dont play in 95% of the time. If you are going to ruck him alone on a night like tonight you continue to do so as I doubt it will ever be harder than that.

[Gary Bull Baker 0]

Jamar will destroy Mark Blake next week -you don't need another ruckman against Blake. Blake got a good wrap in the paper, he is so hopeless he'll think he's good and he'll play even worse then he normally does plus Jamar is an All Australian standard at the moment due, Jolly and Wood aren't at present.

[rusty_kingswood 0]

How good was he?

And how important has he been?

He would have been a lifetime MFC legend if he took that touched ball in the last.

But amongst all the frivolity, there's a cold hard fact we and the footy department have to come to terms with. If we keep relying on him in this way, he's going to get hurt. He was BEYOND stuffed in the last quarter (which makes his courage all the more impressive), and if he keeps this up, he's going to get at the least, a soft tissue injury, and at worst, something unthinkable.

We've gone 9 rounds more or less with him on his own. It's time to perhaps even give him a rest...

Along with this thinking, I reckon posters here and elsewhere need to realise he's going to need to play less over the next month or two, and that kids will be playing, likely less effectively. And even further on that thinking, our midfield will look a little less impressive without him.

Deal with it people.

PS, I'm aware Spencer was selected originally.

Agree 100%.

The problem for me is, The Dees are about winning games now, therefore who do we possible play whilst resting The Russian, and be able to have a strong presence in the middle.

This is the problem.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

That's why we recruited Max Gawn and Jack Fitzpatrick. In three-four years, we'll have three very capable ruckman, two of which can play forward as well :D

Not talking about 3-4 years from now. The OP is referring only to this year. And more specifically the next month or so.

The problem for me is, The Dees are about winning games now, therefore who do we possible play whilst resting The Russian, and be able to have a strong presence in the middle.

This is the problem.

See, this was my point in starting this thread.

In my mind there IS no problem. It's a very simple answer. We MUST play another ruckman for at least the next month or two, and perhaps if possible give Jamar the week off, though that's perhaps a bit overzealous.

We may well have lost, we may well have lost the previous 3 weeks by more... and if we play a developing backup ruckman over the next 4 weeks, we'll probably be a 3-goal-per-week worse side.

THAT'S what we will just have to deal with. We have recruited for our future, but just because Mark is our only AFL-quality ruckman doesn't mean we should run him into the ground, simply because we recruited our backups late (and the other mature ones haven't come on well enough).

The issue is, what if due to exhaustion he makes a mistake, and does a knee? Then we lose him COMPLETELY for the rest of the year, probably the pre-season, and his output may be curtailed in 2011, when it counts.

We have suffered because Meesen and PJ have been hurt, and have not been good enough in the few opportunities they've been given. No-one's to blame, they can't all turn out to be Cox. The POINT is that we have to suffer in a small way in the short term, to ensure we don't hurt more in the long term.

Besides. 4-5 with Jamar suggests to me we have the right mix there, and we're already ahead of where we should have been at this stage this year. We're not desperately clinging to a finals berth here, a la Port... We're still developing. I want to see Jamar run the year out, not sitting in the stands watching us play PJ and Spencer one week, then Meesen and Newton the next...

[Rod Grinter Riot Squad 5,654]

Not talking about 3-4 years from now. The OP is referring only to this year. And more specifically the next month or so.

See, this was my point in starting this thread.

In my mind there IS no problem. It's a very simple answer. We MUST play another ruckman for at least the next month or two, and perhaps if possible give Jamar the week off, though that's perhaps a bit overzealous.

...

We have suffered because Meesen and PJ have been hurt, and have not been good enough in the few opportunities they've been given. No-one's to blame, they can't all turn out to be Cox. The POINT is that we have to suffer in a small way in the short term, to ensure we don't hurt more in the long term.

Besides. 4-5 with Jamar suggests to me we have the right mix there, and we're already ahead of where we should have been at this stage this year. We're not desperately clinging to a finals berth here, a la Port... We're still developing. I want to see Jamar run the year out, not sitting in the stands watching us play PJ and Spencer one week, then Meesen and Newton the next...

So who do we bring in?

Spencer has played. Was useless.

PJ played and was worse than useless.

Give me a 186 cm Sylvia over these 2.

That leaves Fitzpatrick and the injured Gawn and Meeson.

So Dappa, which of these back up ruckmen should play and whom will they replace?

[Disco Demons 92]

can people define wat they mean by burnout? we can't protect a player from injury...

i don't think jamar is being overworked. if anything adding another player into the team to cover the ruck work for jamar puts more pressure on him. syliva was funny to watch in the ruck

[Rod Grinter Riot Squad 5,654]

can people define wat they mean by burnout? we can't protect a player from injury...

Something Brock was good at....

in the spirit of these thread I also suggest we send Watts, Scully and Trengove to Casey. Maybe Grimes too. These young guys are showing plenty. We wouldn't want them to get hurt.

[TrueGRITS 0]

I was sitting next to the Russian at a pre season dinner and had a chat about him being a lone hand in then ruck this year as all the others are injuried. He stated he could ruck the whole game but at about 80% because he couldn't get to all the contests... Interesting to note he nominated PJ as returning from injury and the back up role.

Also a player being on the ground the whole game won't create injuries as mention above. Before rotations became so popular players barely rested and the injuries weren't higher. The issue is how many contests he can get to in a game

[titan_uranus 25,176]

Jamar will destroy Mark Blake next week -you don't need another ruckman against Blake. Blake got a good wrap in the paper, he is so hopeless he'll think he's good and he'll play even worse then he normally does plus Jamar is an All Australian standard at the moment due, Jolly and Wood aren't at present.

Clearly you didn't watch the Geelong-Collingwood game. Blake played very well. Not just in the ruck contests but around the ground, linking up, shepherding etc. A good game from a player I don't rate at all.

[dee-luded 2,959]

That's why we recruited Max Gawn and Jack Fitzpatrick. In three-four years, we'll have three very capable ruckman, two of which can play forward as well :D

What!

[dee-luded 2,959]

Yeah good comments Dappa let the other ruckmen earn a spot just like miller has had too big Mark has been a revelation

IMO, we could play him & Spencer, or rest the Russian & play both Spencer & PJ for a week. The cats rucks are not the strongest, but are OK, & were fairly good last week. Spencer & against Blake would give us an indication how we measure up & PJ could nullify Hawkins.

[Deano74 156]

Miller too important forward at the time.

After tonight, I've got no friggin' idea whether or not I want another ruckman in the side. Jamar can't go it alone forever clearly, he was completely dead on his feet, but as Jaded points out it's hard to imagine how we could've been better off with Spencer playing instead of Jetta. Too hard. Thank $deity I'm an armchair supporter and not a selector.

I think we could not have done without Jetta, but we could have with Wona (for the moment, till hes fit).

We do need a 2nd Ruckman, because when Jamar was resting on bench we got smashed in the centre bounces and that allowed Port back in the game.

The Question who does it? Johnson, Spencer, Martin, Dunn.

Needs to be someone who can add punch up forward.

Im glad I aint on selection. How are they going to get Bruce, Bate, Warnock back in the team.

Is there someone else who can have a go in the Ruck ?

[rpfc 28,913]

Jamar will be fine. A chop out will be given and he will live through the year I promise you.

We don't have a backup ruck in the top 25 players so why force one in there for 5 ruck contests and 15 minutes of following?

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

So who do we bring in?

Spencer. He may have been useless, but he's a kid, and giving him games in the seniors to get used to his team-mates will hold him in good stead for 2011. A more important year than 2010. He'll get some hit-outs, will likely be ineffective around the ground, but that's the price you pay for not having a real backup ruckman on the list. You HAVE to play a kid. Just like every other side in the comp. I would say PJ, but the quality of his football was worse than bad, and based on that, he needs to re-earn his place.

Give me a 186 cm Sylvia over these 2.

How are we supposed to take your thread seriously with this? On what planet is losing Sylvia from the forward line/regular midfielder position HELPING the side when he's good for only a handful of hit-outs?

So Dappa, which of these back up ruckmen should play and whom will they replace?

See above, and by all means feel free to ask any more questions that have been answered half a dozen times on this thread already.

Next.

can people define wat they mean by burnout? we can't protect a player from injury...

? That's exactly what you can do. It's proven that you're more likely to suffer soft tissue AND impact injuries while fatigued.

i don't think jamar is being overworked.

Who have you been watching?

if anything adding another player into the team to cover the ruck work for jamar puts more pressure on him.

I don't get it. How? Serious question there, you may have a reason. Personally I don't see how giving him more time on the pine/resting forward ISN'T helping him.

syliva was funny to watch in the ruck

True. But then if I want a laugh, I'll turn on the Bounce...

Wait.

Jamar will be fine. A chop out will be given and he will live through the year I promise you.

We don't have a backup ruck in the top 25 players so why force one in there for 5 ruck contests and 15 minutes of following?

Ok. So who's the chop out?

The answer to your second question (which I'm aware is rhetorical) is contained in the OP, and in the next 20-odd posts. We force one in there for two reasons. Development, and to safeguard a serious Jamar injury, which would put his career and our 2010 season in freefall. (his renaissance is based largely on hard work and fitness, a la Cox)