Mathew Bate

[Chook 14,702]

No harping on here but his mistake in the dying seconds cost us the match. Albeit one of four mistakes in the dying seconds that cost us the match.

Personally I thought he was ordinary on Saturday. Better than his first match which was truly awful.

I'd have him playing 2's until he dominates a game for Casey but I can't see them dropping him this week.

I'm well aware that he's underdone but he needs to play better than he has so far.

By the way I'm a fan of Bate's and see him playing in our Premiership sides in the future.

His "mistake" there put the ball right in the hot-spot, where it was quickly snapped up by a player who sent it straight to Rohan Bail. Bail then put it right back to the goal-square rather than kicking a goal himself. Even if he had missed, we would have at least gotten the two points. But he put it to Petterd, who failed to take the mark. Any number of mistakes were, as you say, made in that passage of play, but Rohan Bail is touted as one of our best on the weekend. Ricky Petterd, whose turnovers cost us two goals, is widely proclaimed best-on-ground. But perennial whipping-boy Bate is condemned based on that mistake which, when thrown together with the ungainly way he looks when playing, makes him appear far worse than he is.

Bail was good, Petterd was great, and Bate was also good, but he doesn't get the credit for it. The fact is that even though Bate "cost us the game" by putting the ball to the top of the goal-square rather than hitting Petterd (which he obviously should have done), we still would have won if Bail had kicked the goal, would have drawn at least if he had kicked the behind, and would have won if Petterd had taken the simple mark. I put it to you that nobody can cost you a game if, even after the mistake, you still could have won. Many mistakes are made in a game of footy, some right at the end, but that shouldn't discount all the other great things that were done by every player on the ground. I have and will continue to defend Matthew Bate because he is a great link-man in a lot of our inside 50s and he rarely turns the ball over in parts of the ground where turnovers are dangerous. And that's even when he's not fully fit.

Out of curiosity, is there anyone you think had an underrated or overrated game on the week-end? I'm not asking so I can pick it apart, I'm just curious.

Edited April 6, 2010 by Chook

[Guest watts04]

Good player who will improve

Lay off him and give him a mth first....

[Butler 0]

He didn't need to be match fit to spot Petterd standing alone in the goal square in the last minute of the match! He could have won the game.

Are you sure Petterd wasn't standing on the half forward flank jnrm??????

[Chook 14,702]

Are you sure Petterd wasn't standing on the half forward flank jnrm??????

That's true. He was. When Bail got it, Petterd started sprinting to the goalsquare and was just run down by Dayne Beams which put him off the mark.

[Go the Biff 3,212]

Are you sure Petterd wasn't standing on the half forward flank jnrm??????

Petterd was between forward flank & forward pocket when Bate grabbed the ball - he kept running to the square after Bate kicked it towards Dunn. But Bate should have spotted Ricky though & passed to him.

Thought Bate was ok on Saturday - maybe drifted out in & out a bit.

Watched the replay & thought Bate was a fair bit better than ok. Very important lead up target, especially in the first quarter when we were trying to get some reward for effort on the scoreboard.

Wouldn't contemplate dropping him.

[Allen Jakovich 516]

Seriously, are we going to do this again?

Last year he took a while to get going, everyone had a crack at him, then he was our most dominant forward in the final 15 weeks of the year.

[Butler 0]

I don't post but decided it was time to put my foot into the water. Sick of poster's letting facts get in the way of there favoarite passtime in bashing a player. The other player that seems to cop it a lot is Dunn who I think will surprise this year if given a chance.

[Deeoldfart 7,864]

Go back 12 months you will find that a number of Demonlanders were calling for Bate to be dropped. I'm not sure if that was after a limited pre-season, but it certainly took quite a few matches for him to work into the form that eventually took him to 4th place in the Bluey. I guess the question that some are asking now, is whether he should be given time at Casey to find that form? I don't see the point in this, especially as there are no ready made replacements who warrant senior selection.

Others have said that Bater does not have the attributes to be a KPP, and will be a stronger contributor playing off a flank with a couple of strong marking talls around him. I agree. I think it's more than coincidence that Bate's improved form last year coincided with the emergence of LJ and Robbo's return from injury.

[Cards13 9,117]

Again, poor old Bater is still under the pump from the supporters.

For the game on Saturday Baters job was to keep Maxwell occupied and not allow him to float free mopping up and rebounding, considering that Maxwell hardly did this at all, I would say Bater did his job.

It is not all about standing out, it is doing the job the coach gives you for the team

If you must criticise a player, please explain to me what Bate did wrong on Saturday, and yes I am prepared for the onslaught

Do you know from inside the club that was his role Saty?

My gripe with Bater is his lack of pace, inability to get any seperation from a direct opponent, his lack of ability to get off his feet in marking contest and his ability below his knees. Other than that he has the ability to be our best fwd from the middle/older aged players we currently have.

Edited April 6, 2010 by Cards13

[Cards13 9,117]

Even the posters on demonology acknowledge his limited pre season and the fact that he's grossly underdone

You turn up on Sat in your kit then your fit to play, if you're not then get back to the 2's to get match fit.

[Hellaintabadplacetobe 4,166]

Seriously, are we going to do this again?

Last year he took a while to get going, everyone had a crack at him, then he was our most dominant forward in the final 15 weeks of the year.

Yep, spot on. He will have some dominant games in a few weeks time IMO. Very limited pre season this year. There will be plenty of eggs on faces!

[DeeM 42]

Sylvia will be back this week (fingers crossed) does that mean bate misses? They play similar positions

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,663]

De ja vu from this exact time last year.

It took till round 8 for Bate to finally play a solid game when he kicked 4 goals V's the Bulldogs. Then he never looked back.

I'd prefer to keep Bate in the side as he is a potential match winner on his day and has more upside than the majority of players out there on Saturday. We just have to be patient, as it appears he needs 4-6 weeks of match practice to start performing.

I like Bate and Sylvia both roaming the forward flanks.

[Yokozuna 1,004]

The only reason Bate will not be in the seniors for the next few years us when he is injured.

The coaches love what he brings to the team, as do I.

People can debate it and argue it all they like, but he is one of our most important players.

He is obviously underdone, but still gives us more than our other tall options (Miller and Newton) at the moment.

I sadly have watched the replay 2 times (on holidays) and he did more than most people think, he led up well, set up some goals and put his body in when needed.

I would love him to be BOG but not everyone can. I said Frawley was very good on the weekend cos Medhurst did nothing and I wsa told it ws not good enough cos he did not attack enough. Everyone has a job to do, and if they do it well or better, the team plays like they did on the weekend.

And for those saying he lost us the game with his non pass to Petterd, you are crazy. If we want to be picky we can say every player who missed a set shot cost us the game. A player who ruched a behind cost us the game.

He kicked it to the correct spot, to the top of the goal square cos he did not see Petterd in his 0.5 sec he had to get rid of the ball while under pressure.

[H_T 2,941]

Go back 12 months you will find that a number of Demonlanders were calling for Bate to be dropped. I'm not sure if that was after a limited pre-season, but it certainly took quite a few matches for him to work into the form that eventually took him to 4th place in the Bluey. I guess the question that some are asking now, is whether he should be given time at Casey to find that form? I don't see the point in this, especially as there are no ready made replacements who warrant senior selection.

I'll admit that at that early stage last year (rounds 4-5) I was one who had the opinion that Bate needed to pull his finger out. It was warranted at that time. The fact that he did and went on to have his best season yet and have an impact on the games as such is a testament to his hard work.

I think his output on Saturday was ok and benefited the side by leading up the ground and taking marks outside 50 and then penetrating i50 with effect. (minus his last disposal). He should remain in the side.

I'd like to know those who want him out, who should they replace him with and why ?

[Deestroy All 14,262]

He got us off to a very good start on Saturday, he faded, but he's obviously not fit.

He looked sharp in the first quarter.

He's very frustrating though, the gulf between his best and worst is huge.

He's a bit like Ricky, I wouldn't drop him just for the fact that he could suddenly snag 3 or 4 and assist 2 or 3 more.

As HT says, who would replace him? Miller has done his dash.

I like a Sylvia, Bate, Petterd HFL.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

I had a couple of close looks at the game... and People are nuts.

He played a good game of AFL footy. A few mistakes, but rarely were we punished.

People have short memories. One poster at 'ology likes to call him a "disgusting" footballer over and over. This amazes me. I wonder if Petterd will be a "disgusting" footballer if he ever starts a season slowly.

Football supporters... in particular keyboard heroes... Know exactly NOTHING, and the way people get stuck into him is proof. He's a VERY good player our Matty.

[satyricon 267]

I had a couple of close looks at the game... and People are nuts.

He played a good game of AFL footy. A few mistakes, but rarely were we punished.

People have short memories. One poster at 'ology likes to call him a "disgusting" footballer over and over. This amazes me. I wonder if Petterd will be a "disgusting" footballer if he ever starts a season slowly.

Football supporters... in particular keyboard heroes... Know exactly NOTHING, and the way people get stuck into him is proof. He's a VERY good player our Matty.

Dappa, that's what makes this board/forum so interesting, and why I came back to it, everybody has an opinion and they are entitled to it, if you can put forward an argument/idea and the rationale behind it, without being rude, abusive etc that you should do.

I started this topic because I personally think Bater is a very good player and thought he was being unjustly criticised in my opinion.

We have two days of healthy debate......excellent.........now lets start on Michael Newton or do we need to sart anothe rtopic........again I think he is a good player.....unfortunately his period when he was supposed to be growing as player has been absolute turmoil with the club.......it is interesting that the improvement in those players.....Bate, Bartram, Jones, Dunn, Newton had stalled but is now starting to gather momentum...have no fear if Bailey thinks they have no use to Melbourne when their contract is up...they will be gone......discuss.....

[Butler 0]

Sylvia will be back this week (fingers crossed) does that mean bate misses? They play similar positions

Deemitch there are two sides to the ground having sylvia carve it up on one side and bate on the other maybe we will have the start of a forward line. You can fill the other spots in if you like.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Dappa, that's what makes this board/forum so interesting, and why I came back to it, everybody has an opinion and they are entitled to it, if you can put forward an argument/idea and the rationale behind it, without being rude, abusive etc that you should do.

I started this topic because I personally think Bater is a very good player and thought he was being unjustly criticised in my opinion.

We have two days of healthy debate......excellent.........now lets start on Michael Newton or do we need to sart anothe rtopic........again I think he is a good player.....unfortunately his period when he was supposed to be growing as player has been absolute turmoil with the club.......it is interesting that the improvement in those players.....Bate, Bartram, Jones, Dunn, Newton had stalled but is now starting to gather momentum...have no fear if Bailey thinks they have no use to Melbourne when their contract is up...they will be gone......discuss.....

Calling Bate a "disgusting" footballer was the height of the ridiculousness. But even that aside, the way people have turned on him after he's shown as much as he has since his debut... It's just an embarrassment to our supporter group. He'd stroll comfortably onto any list in the AFL, and yet there's a LOT of people who want to see the back of him. It's just bizarre.

As for your other names mentioned. Newton is a long way from out of the woods. Jones and Bate are safe as houses, (though Jones needs to get over this plateau). Dunn and Bartram are worrying me.

[satyricon 267]

Calling Bate a "disgusting" footballer was the height of the ridiculousness. But even that aside, the way people have turned on him after he's shown as much as he has since his debut... It's just an embarrassment to our supporter group. He'd stroll comfortably onto any list in the AFL, and yet there's a LOT of people who want to see the back of him. It's just bizarre.

As for your other names mentioned. Newton is a long way from out of the woods. Jones and Bate are safe as houses, (though Jones needs to get over this plateau). Dunn and Bartram are worrying me.

Dappa D, that is my point, there are posters on here who I think will put something just to start a fight, there are others who have studied/played/watched etc footy for over 30 years (I count myself as one of those), others who just want Melbourne to win.......as long as nobody attacks me personally I will read what they have to say, and if I think it needs a reply I will.

The point re the second-tier players I have mentioned is that the Club has stated the same they need to lift.

Bailey inherited them, Daniher had done the best he could, but I think the development of the younger players towards the end of his tenure was not his or his support staffs forte....I think what Bailey is saying to that group....mentioned above.is that that has changed in the last two years.....you have been helped, you need to improve etc etc........Bate has improved, Sylvia has more than improved, the others are getting there.they have to or they have no future....

[Tim 3,027]

You turn up on Sat in your kit then your fit to play, if you're not then get back to the 2's to get match fit.

Wrong question. It should be: is the mix of the player's fitness/quality better than the next best option - a fit NQR player. It's not black and white. I would still take MB at the moment as he approaches full fitness after injury over anyone else I can see at the club for his role.

[DeeZee 6,913]

Just watched the replay and thought he was good.

Did alot of hard work creating space and creating goals with smart handball.

[tess 19]

That's cool, I didn't provide stats, just an observation from watching the game, with keeping Maxwell occupied Bater took away a threat, I don't need him to kick goals as long as I see he is performing for the team

I reckon in this years draft we should try to recruit a player that posesses the skill to keep the opposition's backman quite.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Dappa D, that is my point, there are posters on here who I think will put something just to start a fight, there are others who have studied/played/watched etc footy for over 30 years (I count myself as one of those), others who just want Melbourne to win.......as long as nobody attacks me personally I will read what they have to say, and if I think it needs a reply I will.

My first post wasn't aimed at you. Actually had nothing to do with you. I didn't answer your post as much as I took it and ran with it to make another point.