Last week Crows, this week WCE

[2014-Flag 0]

For anyone who saw both Saturday's game AND the Crows game last week......

Clearly we are in a situation here where we were very competitive last week against possibly a top four side and this week uncompetitive against a mid list side, and one that was playing interstate and usually is uncompetitive interstate.

What were the main difference between our two perfomances? I must say I was heartened by what I read about the display against the Crows after being very down beat after the game against the Bombers. In fact I wrote on here after that that on the performance we would not win a game. From the reports about yesterday, it sounds as though the perfomance was very similar to the Bombers.

The thing that made me so depressed about the Bomber performance was what seemed to me to be a total lack of Gameplan, or an inability to implement one. For those who saw the Crows game had this turned around last week, or were we simply well served by a couple of brilliant young guns in Scully and Trengove?

Or is it simply the inconsistency of a young side? I must say i'm still not convinced about Baily's gameplan, or lack of one.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,233]

For anyone who saw both Saturday's game AND the Crows game last week......

Clearly we are in a situation here where we were very competitive last week against possibly a top four side and this week uncompetitive against a mid list side, and one that was playing interstate and usually is uncompetitive interstate.

What were the main difference between our two perfomances? I must say I was heartened by what I read about the display against the Crows after being very down beat after the game against the Bombers. In fact I wrote on here after that that on the performance we would not win a game. From the reports about yesterday, it sounds as though the perfomance was very similar to the Bombers.

The thing that made me so depressed about the Bomber performance was what seemed to me to be a total lack of Gameplan, or an inability to implement one. For those who saw the Crows game had this turned around last week, or were we simply well served by a couple of brilliant young guns in Scully and Trengove?

Or is it simply the inconsistency of a young side? I must say i'm still not convinced about Baily's gameplan, or lack of one.

I dont see why this needs its own thread but part of it I would say lies in the fact that the Crows are only second to us for the amount of injuries they had and were far from full strength. West Coast yesterday played close to full strength aside from Glass, Lynch and Hurn (I am sure I have missed others).

[pitmaster 3,577]

You're starting with a false premise: we WERE competitive against wce for most of the game - when it was decided we had jamar off the ground - he returned 19 minutes into the last quarter when it had been decided and the flow was against us.

I have read so much negativity on the match day thread I decided not to contribute to it.

Some cold light of day balance:

The defence is really coming together. Frawley and Warnock are teaming really well. Warnock several times outpointed NicNat in the air to spoil or mark strongly.

Add Rivers and Joel Mac and that's a solid unit.

Jamar was dominant in the ruck. Martin showed improvement when forward. Spencer is coming on as well.

The skipper's clearances were incredible. If he keeps that up he won't be retiring this year

Whoever said Bate is not up to standard is a fool. His first quarter goal from 45 metres on his wrong side showed his quality foot skills - never in doubt. His marking was off but....this is his first hit out! He will come good.

The game plan everyone is whingeing about is to cut the oppo up with rapid fire handball in defence to launch counter attacks. It's NQR yet but when it did work it looked impressive such as when we swept the ball the length of the ground without an eagle getting close. I do worry about Bennell's skills which exose us down there.

Overall there were some good signs.

I am cut up about Sylvia - that is a disaster. Scully was mostly good but coughed it up a couple of times yesterday and the forward structure is not there - Petterd left one out against three opponents showed that. But hey, even Miller took a contested mark - but don't be fooled by his three goals - should have been five.

We are going to have to hang tough for a few weeks. Scully and Trengove are going to need some protection and apart from Moloney I don't see where it is. But this all out wrist cutting is weak.

[sue 9,133]

It might make you feel a teeny bit better to know that only one other team hasn't won a pre-season game. Geelong.

I did say teeny bit.

[Inner Demon 1]

Nope. Cats won yesterday.

Not that it's at all relevant.

[Whispering_Jack 30,615]

Nope. Cats won yesterday.

Not that it's at all relevant.

I think perhaps Carlton hasn't won a practice match which seems to put us in good company .

On our game plan, if it's the handball thing then the coach has a hell of a job in front of him because the current skill levels are letting him down badly.

[demon85 17]

It might make you feel a teeny bit better to know that only one other team hasn't won a pre-season game. Geelong.

I did say teeny bit.

Ah, Geelong beat Fremantle by 31 points yesterday... the same Fremantle that smashed us.

[Wolfmother 182]

I'm like you Pitmaster only adding to this thread as it hasnt become the negative dribble yet of the match day thread...

Yesterdays game was disappointing but some of the people calling for doom and gloom weren't there... I was behind the interchange gates for the second half and couldn't believe the rotations... The plan by the MFC for this game became obvious to me that it was about getring game time into players and see how they perform against different opponents... The side was never settled which is fine, as they need to learn/experiment with players but from the comments on this site we should have been going all out to win and not played any of the younger players.... I didn't notice this from the other wing and winning culture is a load of crap, these players want to win everything that is why they are elite in their sports...

If you can't see what the gameplan is, I wonder two things... have you ever played football (or have a good understanding of the game) and understand what happens on the field or two expect that the game is played by robots who are programed to response to every situation in a similar way like you are playing it on Xbox...

Pitmaster touched on the game plan which is obvious and most times is brought down by a skill error in the fifth link which causes a problem. The players kicking backwards is part of the gameplan as they want to set everything up from half back and run through the midfield. If it becomes clogged they want to go back again and attack again into space... think the way soccer is played... Although this is a plan it can't always happen as the game is fluid.... I also think it is the plan for the kick out get the ball to the Half back move the zone back into the larger part of the ground and then attack the wholes/gaps when they are created, not sure if I like this plan but that is what I see occurring...

For those who state we lack a game plan what was WC yesterday???

Overall yesterday wasn't as encouraging as the bombers game (maybe Adelaide but are we only encourgaged because we could of won or how the team performed) but this season isn't a write off now... We are all predicting between 5 and 10 wins this year but aren't expecting a rollercoaster, this team will surprise, then disappoint between weeks and sometimes between quarters...

[DemonDave 1,089]

I think perhaps Carlton hasn't won a practice match which seems to put us in good company .

The Blues beat Fevolas mob at Judd Park. You'd think it'd be almost a certainty one of the two papers will publish a 'pre-season' ladder to fill

papers this week. I think we'd almost certainly be last, not a good portent.

[Inner Demon 1]

We beat Brisbane in the pre-season last year yet they played semis and we took the spoon.

Sydney won their first pre-season game in Paul Roos' tenure this year.

If you think pre-season results are a real indication of where teams will be by September you're just not paying attention.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

For anyone who saw both Saturday's game AND the Crows game last week......

Clearly we are in a situation here where we were very competitive last week against possibly a top four side and this week uncompetitive against a mid list side, and one that was playing interstate and usually is uncompetitive interstate.

What were the main difference between our two perfomances? I must say I was heartened by what I read about the display against the Crows after being very down beat after the game against the Bombers. In fact I wrote on here after that that on the performance we would not win a game. From the reports about yesterday, it sounds as though the perfomance was very similar to the Bombers.

The thing that made me so depressed about the Bomber performance was what seemed to me to be a total lack of Gameplan, or an inability to implement one. For those who saw the Crows game had this turned around last week, or were we simply well served by a couple of brilliant young guns in Scully and Trengove?

Or is it simply the inconsistency of a young side? I must say i'm still not convinced about Baily's gameplan, or lack of one.

Come on, let's get a bit of perspective:

Week 1 v Freo: Pathetic display. Only excuse was it was a bunch of kids first trip to WA on a hot night and they started extremely poorly

Week 2 v Bombers: With 2 days less break and coming back from Freo, we had about 7 key outs to their 1-2. The first 20 and last 10 minutes we were poor but controlled the game the rest of the time as was reflected on the scoreboard

Week 3 v Crows: on the road again, and again undermanned, although so were they, even the biased 5AA callers said we deserved the match

Week 4 v Eagles: Missing 10 players. Were in front 10 minutes into the 3rd quarter then completely lost the plot

It's not great reading, but the facts are I would say 9 of our last 12 quarters we have played solid football - and that's with huge outs from our lineup. Come round 1 we should only be missing 4 players. I don't think things are as bad as they seem, Just those 3 bad quarters are a big worry because they were very, very bad.

Edited March 13, 2010 by Curry & Beer

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

We beat Brisbane in the pre-season last year yet they played semis and we took the spoon.

Sydney won their first pre-season game in Paul Roos' tenure this year.

If you think pre-season results are a real indication of where teams will be by September you're just not paying attention.

yeah but the issue is HOW they are going about it, that second half yesterday was a shamozzle that looked like we haven't progressed in 2 years

[Redleg 41,413]

The real issues as I see them are, we have too many injuries, we over handball and a lot of it is poorly executed, we don't have key forwards of AFL calibre and our foot disposal is poor. These are the issues that need fixing. Some will be fixed this year and others in the following years. We probably should have traded for a Leigh Brown type, Ashley Hansen for example who was available, to fill the gap for a couple of seasons which would have given Watts, Fitzpatrick time to develop. Hindsight is wonderful but instead of Maric at 20 in his year we could have taken a key forward who hopefully now would be reasonable and providing a big target down the guts.

[pitmaster 3,577]

On our game plan, if it's the handball thing then the coach has a hell of a job in front of him because the current skill levels are letting him down badly.

Agree Jack. Some of our blokes seem to think below the knees is the best target for a handball. It is something they must work on.

[Prof 15]

Being realistic, we are very unlikely to win more than 5 games. We are not capable of kicking more than 12 or 13 goals in a game. We have one forward who would regularly play in most other teams (Bate). We do not have any forwards who are capable of taking strong marks in dangerous positions. Our best hope for genuine improvement to our forward structure is if Watts, Maric and Petterd show some genuine development as the year progresses.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

The real issues as I see them are, we have too many injuries, we over handball and a lot of it is poorly executed, we don't have key forwards of AFL calibre and our foot disposal is poor. These are the issues that need fixing. Some will be fixed this year and others in the following years. We probably should have traded for a Leigh Brown type, Ashley Hansen for example who was available, to fill the gap for a couple of seasons which would have given Watts, Fitzpatrick time to develop. Hindsight is wonderful but instead of Maric at 20 in his year we could have taken a key forward who hopefully now would be reasonable and providing a big target down the guts.

Bradshaw?

I don't hold high hopes for Fitzpatrick.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Bradshaw?

I don't hold high hopes for Fitzpatrick.

neither do I, he is in the same boat as Spencer, and so many before them at this club, they have the required number of centimetres but absolutely nothing else to bring to the table

[Nasher 33,617]

neither do I, he is in the same boat as Spencer, and so many before them at this club, they have the required number of centimetres but absolutely nothing else to bring to the table

That they bring nothing to the table is quite clearly rubbish, otherwise they'd never have been drafted. And I don't think that was really CB's point anyway.

I view Fitzpatrick in the same light as pretty much everyone else we've picked in the 50s and beyond -- my expectations are very low but that doesn't mean he brings nothing to the table.

[dee-luded 2,959]

You're starting with a false premise: we WERE competitive against wce for most of the game - when it was decided we had jamar off the ground - he returned 19 minutes into the last quarter when it had been decided and the flow was against us.

I have read so much negativity on the match day thread I decided not to contribute to it.

Some cold light of day balance:

The defence is really coming together. Frawley and Warnock are teaming really well. Warnock several times outpointed NicNat in the air to spoil or mark strongly.

Add Rivers and Joel Mac and that's a solid unit.

Jamar was dominant in the ruck. Martin showed improvement when forward. Spencer is coming on as well.

The skipper's clearances were incredible. If he keeps that up he won't be retiring this year

Whoever said Bate is not up to standard is a fool. His first quarter goal from 45 metres on his wrong side showed his quality foot skills - never in doubt. His marking was off but....this is his first hit out! He will come good.

The game plan everyone is whingeing about is to cut the oppo up with rapid fire handball in defence to launch counter attacks. It's NQR yet but when it did work it looked impressive such as when we swept the ball the length of the ground without an eagle getting close. I do worry about Bennell's skills which exose us down there.

Overall there were some good signs.

I am cut up about Sylvia - that is a disaster. Scully was mostly good but coughed it up a couple of times yesterday and the forward structure is not there - Petterd left one out against three opponents showed that. But hey, even Miller took a contested mark - but don't be fooled by his three goals - should have been five.

We are going to have to hang tough for a few weeks. Scully and Trengove are going to need some protection and apart from Moloney I don't see where it is. But this all out wrist cutting is weak.

Beautifull,, great piece.

I agree, & its difficult to look like theres a gameplan when we continually bring in first gamers who have just arrived at the club off a plane.

I saw a lot yesterday to be plenty happy with individually yesterday, particularly early in the game. those who focus on the score & worry about if its a win or a loss will miss seeing the se young individuals growing there game, little improvement by little improvement.

Jamar was great yesterday & our midfield haven't yet learnt to read his palming.

Worried about our small defenders but hey, they have to learn sometime, &, afterall, thats what this year was going to be all about, getting games of experience into these great kids.

Stop reading the scoreboard you panicking supporters & watch the kids more closely, you might enjoy the game more.

We're going to be bottom 4, thats it.. But we can push in 2011 up near the 8.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

That they bring nothing to the table is quite clearly rubbish, otherwise they'd never have been drafted. And I don't think that was really CB's point anyway.

I view Fitzpatrick in the same light as pretty much everyone else we've picked in the 50s and beyond -- my expectations are very low but that doesn't mean he brings nothing to the table.

oh really, apart from being very tall, what quality does Spencer exhibit? he was extremely poor yesterday, absolutely no clue what to do with the ball and no ability to dispose of it. If you are over 200cm it is not that hard to get drafted, football sides require them and there aren't many of them in the general population, simple as that

[waynewussell 6,237]

It took 20 seconds of the Casey v Frankston game for me to realise that Fitzpatrick is a 'must play' for us in round 1. I didn't know at the time, having just arrived, but it was in the final moments of that contest. I had been disappointed in what I saw of Fitzpatrick in the game v Bombers, and had agreed with everyone here that he was not ready. In those final moments yesterday he took a towering contested mark right against the behind post at the city end. I had just walked to that goalsquare with my son. Forget that he tried a check-side snap after looking uncertain about where to put the ball. Forget that he managed a behind with this kick. Forget that the umpire then paid him a 50 because the bloke on the mark had tried to smother the kick without the 'play-on' call being given. The memorable thing about that mark was that it was as clean as a whistle, in the middle of the pack which he rose head and shoulders above. In that one moment I saw a Melbourne forward stamp some authority on an aerial contest deep in our forward line. Fitzpatrick is a big unit, he will draw a big opponent. He has ball skills and athleticism. I would rather see him snag one goal a match for the entire season from less than five possessions a game than put up with the other re-cycled options that are available!

[dee-luded 2,959]

It took 20 seconds of the Casey v Frankston game for me to realise that Fitzpatrick is a 'must play' for us in round 1. I didn't know at the time, having just arrived, but it was in the final moments of that contest. I had been disappointed in what I saw of Fitzpatrick in the game v Bombers, and had agreed with everyone here that he was not ready. In those final moments yesterday he took a towering contested mark right against the behind post at the city end. I had just walked to that goalsquare with my son. Forget that he tried a check-side snap after looking uncertain about where to put the ball. Forget that he managed a behind with this kick. Forget that the umpire then paid him a 50 because the bloke on the mark had tried to smother the kick without the 'play-on' call being given. The memorable thing about that mark was that it was as clean as a whistle, in the middle of the pack which he rose head and shoulders above. In that one moment I saw a Melbourne forward stamp some authority on an aerial contest deep in our forward line. Fitzpatrick is a big unit, he will draw a big opponent. He has ball skills and athleticism. I would rather see him snag one goal a match for the entire season from less than five possessions a game than put up with the other re-cycled options that are available!

Yep but lets not squash him by panicking & exposing him too soon, he's only played under - 18s IMO.

Give him time with Casey.

If we play TOO many kids at the one time in any team we Will get slaughtered.

The injuries that we have sustained will set us back in the first half season, but do give us the opportunity to play games into more kids, such as Maric, who has now had a couple of years in the system & has strengthened his body, T Mac, Cheney, Garland to come back, Jetta, McKenzie, Hughes.

[2014-Flag 0]

That they bring nothing to the table is quite clearly rubbish, otherwise they'd never have been drafted. And I don't think that was really CB's point anyway.

I view Fitzpatrick in the same light as pretty much everyone else we've picked in the 50s and beyond -- my expectations are very low but that doesn't mean he brings nothing to the table.

Brad Green , I think maybe 56.

Cameron Bruce, rookie list

Aaron Davey, Rookie list

Liam Jurrah, pre-season draft, didn't make the first draft...

do i need to go on....

Edited March 14, 2010 by 2014-Flag

[45HG 1,559]

Brad Green , I think maybe 56.

Cameron Bruce, rookie list

Aaron Davey, Rookie list

Liam Jarrah, pre-season draft, didn't make the first draft...

do i need to go on....

Brad Green was pick 19.

And for every quality player after pick 50 you name, I could probably find at least two that are not/never were.

Liam Jurrah's case cannot be used because of the circumstances of him entering the draft.

Did you have high expectations of Aaron Davey in 2003? Or when we picked up Bruce from MHSOB in 99? I doubt it.

[Sir Why You Little 37,121]

The main point that worries me is that a lot of our senior players still miss targets with kicks and seem to often give out hospital handballs.

Getting game time into the kids is cool, but it worries me when our older players keep coughing up the ball.

it just frustrates me so much when the team has trained since october 6 last year-I need a beer and a movie i think!!!!