Demonlanders, we're on notice

[the fork 357]

I love reading Demonland, taking in the views of others and reading all I can about the club and team I love, but the one thing that I know I am many others despise about this place is the unruly treatment the players, established and emerging, recieve by so called "supporters".

I'm all up for discussing the merits of players, identifying their weaknesses, using my limited football brain to suggest what might improve the side, but the simple minded, "gutless" player bashing that goes on this and other sites needs to stop. It's just too easy to be a guttersnipe and right others off from the safety of the keyboard. I'm not saying players can't be criticised, but as the popular advice offers, it should be constructive and not slanderous.

Please read the comment below from one Russell Robertson who I believe has offered us an inside view, from a player who has copped heaps on Demonland of late.

"One thing he doesn't love are people who use nom-de-plumes to write contemptuously about footballers on blog sites. ''I tell young footballers not to go looking at those sites, but you don't have to go looking for them to find you. What they say on those things can cause depression. One day, they're going to lead to a young footballer doing something - drastic.'' He sees anonymous attacks on football blog sites as ''gutless''. ''When people speak to me face-to-face, they say they enjoy my footy.''

From Martins Flanagan's recent article in The Age.

[Rogue 585]

Even criticism that couldn't be defined as a 'pot shot' is likely to be somewhat hurful to a player, particularly when there's lots of it. Apparently the players get told not to read sites like this and that's a good thing. Just as with fans yelling out from the sidelines, the players need to ignore stuff like this (and if they can, avoid it).

[beelzebub 22,269]

geezus... for people who make their living in the lime light..its a tad precious

[H_T 2,941]

Like I posted on O'logy, it's probably good advice to warn the young ones.

Obviously he's had a read by these comments, and could well have hurt him in the past. It's probably the same as supporters yelling out things from within the stands - a bit of anonymity there too.

The players need to learn to ignore in both forms, and realise that with over 30,000 members and just as many supporters, there will be the odd few comments passed that they may not like.

Thicker skin required.

[Choko 493]

Yeh it's an interesting one....

I agree that anonymous targeted and personal criticism can be very hurtful. And Beezle, just because you are in the public limelight, it doesn't mean you can't be hurt by, for example, the relentless character assessments on Bruce. Quite often faceless people will rip into blokes in ways that suggest they are "dishonest", "bad teammates", "incompetent" or simply "dispensible".

But on the other hand, if Robbo says that everyone who talks to him about footy says how much they enjoy him playing, then perhaps he should have a look at the difference between some of the comments made by those people and some of the comments made here and by his coach, because there are always things to improve. There's no doubt that players can easily find people to blow smoke up their proverbials, so if that's what you're looking for, it shouldn't be surprising that you would feel upset by criticism from outside.

[beelzebub 22,269]

oh please spare me..fs these are professionals ...arent they..they dothis for a living ...dont they..they are very hansomely remumerated and perks. Outright character assasination isnt warranted , fair enough, and thats prohibited here. But these blokes need to understand that they choose to do it.. and when they step across that white line there dedication and performaces are on display and disection. If they stuff up.we'll notice it..and comment upon it. If they perform well well applaud it.

Dont want criticisms... dont give cause.. not hard is it ?

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Yeh it's an interesting one....

I agree that anonymous targeted and personal criticism can be very hurtful. And Beezle, just because you are in the public limelight, it doesn't mean you can't be hurt by, for example, the relentless character assessments on Bruce. Quite often faceless people will rip into blokes in ways that suggest they are "dishonest", "bad teammates", "incompetent" or simply "dispensible".

But on the other hand, if Robbo says that everyone who talks to him about footy says how much they enjoy him playing, then perhaps he should have a look at the difference between some of the comments made by those people and some of the comments made here and by his coach, because there are always things to improve. There's no doubt that players can easily find people to blow smoke up their proverbials, so if that's what you're looking for, it shouldn't be surprising that you would feel upset by criticism from outside.

In your camp Choko, one thing to claim a bloke needs to work on his kicking and another to say he is "useless" or some such thing.

[The Emblem 1]

oh please spare me..fs these are professionals ...arent they..they dothis for a living ...dont they..they are very hansomely remumerated and perks. Outright character assasination isnt warranted , fair enough, and thats prohibited here. But these blokes need to understand that they choose to do it.. and when they step across that white line there dedication and performaces are on display and disection. If they stuff up.we'll notice it..and comment upon it. If they perform well well applaud it.

Dont want criticisms... dont give cause.. not hard is it ?

We can't take back whats already been said, however going forward perhaps we should attempt to phrase criticism in a way that we would be prepared to say it to a player were it face- to-face.

And if you do get the chance face-to-face then remember to smile while you say it, and if in doubt make sure you've taken a recent photo of yourself with a full set of teeth.

Edited August 19, 2009 by Its_A_Nightmare

[beelzebub 22,269]

I-A-N I ,for one attempt to keep any criticisms , if they are (or praise ) to the play itself. I.e theball more thanthe manso to speak. Its totally unwaranted to describe this or that player as say..scumbag.. loser.. this or that , but there are many desriptions which in all reality are fair go if that is how the player has indeed played. If they play like crap ..then thats that. if a player is lazy , not too flash with second efforts, petulant etc etc.. why shouldnt we call a spade a spade.

""And if you do get the chance face-to-face then remember to smile while you say it, and if in doubt make sure you've taken a recent photo of yourself with a full set of teeth. "" gold !

[praha 10,314]

Oh please. If a player can't handle criticism, then he shouldn't give us something to fuel the argument with.

What a load of crap. If you can't handle it, you shouldn't be a professional athlete. Criticism comes part and parcel, and considering we pay for membership and devout out time to watch and support them, we have a god damn right to be critical if they aren't giving back what we put in

[Demon Disciple 11,081]

geezus... for people who make their living in the lime light..its a tad precious

Right you are bub. And let's not forget that these guys are on a salary that's about 5 times the wage of the average Australian, all for playing a game. They get it pretty good.

I would also have thought that the ones most passionate, ie. in the Melbourne player's case it would be the Melbourne members, would provide the most realistic and truthful opinions. They think that such critiquing is tough, life's tough. The sooner players get this through their heads, the sooner they will learn not to care about what is said.

All sites like this do, in terms of a player viewing it, is provide a reality check of where they really are at.

Edited August 20, 2009 by Demon Disciple

[Tony Tea 2,792]

Flanagan's article:

Robbo loves the theatre of the game

He's had lots of thrills out of footy. Round 4, 1998, West Coast in Perth. Viney and Tingay were the only Melbourne players over the age of 27. ''We forced a victory through pure will.'' Robbo arrived as a footballer that day, taking 10 marks and kicking four goals.

Wrong!

Melbourne did not play West Coast in Perth, round four 1998. That match was round 14. What an appalling, horrendous and unforgivable mistake! Martin Flanagan is a complete and utter imbecile.

Signed: Antony Godemons, age 47 and a half.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Sub editors error Antony.

Robbo's entitled to his opinion and we are entitled to our opinions. I dont agree with his opinion in particular to depression and some of the actions associated by it. He should leave such assessments to the experts.

I agree with Bub and others if the comments are not libellous and focus on their performance as a Club representative then that's fair enough. If you operate in the public arena there are all forms of public scrutiny and accountability. The internet is one such medium.

[e25 5]

I'd happily say what I think to his face. And give him a chance to respond.

Sadly, i think its too late for anything I'd say to be relevant, so its best left alone.

Its funny, some players welcome criticism and it is what fuels them and helps them learn to be better.

[e25 5]

Sub editors error Antony.

Robbo's entitled to his opinion and we are entitled to our opinions. I dont agree with his opinion in particular to depression and some of the actions associated by it. He should leave such assessments to the experts.

I agree with Bub and others if the comments are not libellous and focus on their performance as a Club representative then that's fair enough. If you operate in the public arena there are all forms of public scrutiny and accountability. The internet is one such medium.

I think you'll find its more of a management error - according to a sub I know at the age, a lot of the sports articles are edited extremely lightly these days, a result of massive staff cuts in recent years and the fact that these days its generally accepted that you don't have to get the facts right in sports.

[Little Goffy 12,727]

I think the trouble comes from people who just flame out because it makes them feel big.

Especially when they've had a few drinks, it's shortly after a game, and they are trying to make glib comments to sond smart and decisive. It's why I really hate the 'three word analysis' threads. But each to their own.

One of the reasons it's particularly annoying having this sort of commentary online is that you can't see the person and see that they are a prize [censored]. In a pub, if someone starts flinging [censored] at you, you know their a scrag right away.

Some of the other club's sites are much more bitter and twisted than Demonland, to the point of some posters being obviously in need to psychological management.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Sub editors error Antony.

Robbo's entitled to his opinion and we are entitled to our opinions. I dont agree with his opinion in particular to depression and some of the actions associated by it. He should leave such assessments to the experts.

I agree with Bub and others if the comments are not libellous and focus on their performance as a Club representative then that's fair enough. If you operate in the public arena there are all forms of public scrutiny and accountability. The internet is one such medium.

And I think 95% of the time. Maybe even 99% of the time it's all well written, constructive stuff... aimed at supporting players.

Unfortunately, it's the handful of nuff nuffs that take advantage of the zero accountability that ruin it for everyone else. 'Land and 'Ology could grow and grow and become VERY important sectors for members of the club, but with clown like that, it's hard to see it ever growing as much as it could.

I never thought I'd say this, but has anyone else noticed a marked improvement in bigfooty's content over the last year or so? They've put in a detailed way of keeping posers accountable, and while it's not ironclad, it seems to have helped.

[e25 5]

To be honest i think this thread is all pie-in-the-sky 'wouldn't it be nice' crap.

This is the reality of the internet.

Accept it and find a way to deal with it, cos its not going to change.

[Tony Tea 2,792]

To be honest i think this thread is all pie-in-the-sky 'wouldn't it be nice' crap.

This is the reality of the internet.

Accept it and find a way to deal with it, cos its not going to change.

I don't know about that, E25.

Read this:

Model forces Google to reveal 'skank' blogger's identity

A former Vogue Australia cover girl has won a landmark court battle to reveal the identity of an anonymous blogger who called her a "skank" and an "old hag".

Public personalities, celebrities, call them what you will, are gunning for the internet.

[H_T 2,941]

This is the reality of the internet.

Accept it and find a way to deal with it, cos its not going to change.

Somewhat otherwise described as a: -

Got to roll with the punches sometimes. Sh!t happens.

[The Emblem 1]

I-A-N I ,for one attempt to keep any criticisms , if they are (or praise ) to the play itself. I.e theball more thanthe manso to speak. Its totally unwaranted to describe this or that player as say..scumbag.. loser.. this or that , but there are many desriptions which in all reality are fair go if that is how the player has indeed played. If they play like crap ..then thats that. if a player is lazy , not too flash with second efforts, petulant etc etc.. why shouldnt we call a spade a spade.

""And if you do get the chance face-to-face then remember to smile while you say it, and if in doubt make sure you've taken a recent photo of yourself with a full set of teeth. "" gold !

Indeed you do BB, it wasn't a dig at you , more a note to all of us (me included) of how best we can phrase things and mind the spirit in which its given.

Edited August 20, 2009 by Its_A_Nightmare

[H_T 2,941]

Public personalities, celebrities, call them what you will, are gunning for the internet.

I have no problem at all if say Robbo had an issue with me over my criticism of him playing selfish footy and trying to kick that goal on his back against Hawthorn (only to be smothered); or remaining on the ground after a marking contest (not hurt) whilst he's opponent wreaks havoc with the ball and Robbo's teammates are out numbered; whether that was at Melbourne, or WAS at Casey.

I'd be happy telling him or asking him face to face why he didn't chase opposition out of the backline, or why he failed to work off the ball. I'm sure he has no issue what -so-ever when his coach tells him the same thing.

I think given we are members of the club (others would say shareholders of the club), we have a right to question things like these points; much like shareholders of companies decisions when not performing.

When members of the team break team rules on field, we have a right to vent our anger as long as it is constructive.

Let Robbo gun for those on the internet then.

Edited August 20, 2009 by High Tower

[1858 224]

I never thought I'd say this, but has anyone else noticed a marked improvement in bigfooty's content over the last year or so? They've put in a detailed way of keeping posers accountable, and while it's not ironclad, it seems to have helped.

Are you referring to the Melbourne board or BF in general?

The character assasination of young players (whether it be for laughs or not) by opposition supporters on some boards (Bay13) is pathetic. Robbo's comment about depression is not something I take lightly. If he has experienced it or witnessed it within the team then I see his comment as quite insightful.

________________

The internet ranges from being a gutter to a great medium for people to come together and share their well expressed opinions. Unfortunately for AFL footballers and anyone else in the public realm their reputation or sense of well being is at the hands of this. Constructive critisism or opinion is something that they should get used to but I can see where Robbo is coming from with his remarks.

[Jarka 767]

Great thread, and it's something we all have to understand the next time we're about to post a negative comment. In fact I think this should be extended to games as well, all supporters should be banned from making any negative comments about any player at all. Hell, let's stop barracking as well just in case we hurt the feelings of the opposition.

Of course this also needs to apply to the media as well, all negative comments should be removed from any article. We just can't have the poor souls ego's tarnished in any way, shape or form.

[e25 5]

I don't know about that, E25.

Read this:

Public personalities, celebrities, call them what you will, are gunning for the internet.

Its an ever-evolving thing, thats for sure, but who is surprised those lawsuits occurred in the US?

Ridiculous.

Either way, if you really wanted me to dig up some video footage as evidence of weak efforts, I could do it.

The point is, criticism comes in all forms and always has for footballers - imo its in their job description to cope with it.

And wtf would a player read threads on a forum like Demonland? If you had any sense you'd steer well clear of all that.