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Verrall has not joined the main squad. Looks to be working on his hip, and running laps. So happy for Melky to be back in full training, the same for Petty. They are training hard, and the voice levels are high. Plenty of support for each other, hand slapping cheers, and 'that's what we want' calls. Drills started with running and kicking, then gather and leads, some competitive handball drills, now talls marking and smalls in two groups, low ball gathers, and breaking tackles and lines, in competitive handball. Sims are on, and Melky is off, running hard sprints. Plenty of spread and switch, and making overlaps in the midfield, but still delivering to a crowded forward area. They are now sprinting up and down the paddock, team running. Langdon putting time into K.Brown with instructions about wing roles. That looks like the end of the session. A few stay out. Tracc, Farris-White, Colt, Billings, Salem, Fullaton, JVR, AMW, kicking goals under supervision of Choco. Woey, ANB, Laurie, ball handling. Hore and Viney, kick to kick. Oliver from the centre kicking to a leading Petty. Oliver now goal kicking. Last on the track is Melky working with two trainers, direction changes with ball handling.

The set up, is being put up, for an 11.45am post review training session. 32 in the full session. Rehab: Spargo (runners and singlet), Turner, BBB, and Verrall (looks to be a test). Hunter doing his own program. Bowser in the arm sling. May looks fine. No McAdam. As they gathered, they gave Melky a round of applause, he is doing drills with them as well. Petty is also drilling.

Woey was looking good, nothing extra from coaches. We didn't take it on through the middle. They want them to be quicker and not make errors. They want the smalls to stand and/or break through tackles. They are working on Petty's fitness. Going very slow with Hunter. Not bringing K.Brown in till he is sure of his role. Viney and Colt have a thing. Goody loves Clarry. McQualter works the recovery session. They are loading. Stafford was micro managing.

I had a good chat with Melk late last season at a Casey match (he was an observer). While we chatted about many things, i did manage to sneak in a question specifically about "loading". His response... "What's loading?" lol So i tried to explain the theory as exposed on here re ramping up training eg; through extra track work / sprints / gym work outside of the usual training program. His response.... "We just train and hit the gym. Yes there are weeks where we do some extra work ie; on a long break between matches, but it's not something i notice or am aware of. You may be referring to training 'loads' which is just another term for the amount of training we are asked to complete on the track each week. Aside from that there's specific programmes for individuals coming back from injury etc but that's about it"

Great, moving well, I think still underdone fitness wise. Completed the training with extra runs and sprints. Must be a temptation to bring Petty in and lock him around the forward goal square. Appeared happy.

Unpopular opinion on here it seems but I hope they persist with Laurie, at least for a few more games. Kid has skill, is one of our best by hands and when he gets his confidence up he should sharpen up those kicking skills and help our delivery inside forward 50. In my view he appears to be a confidence player and doesn't believe he belongs yet. Doesn't help when langdon runs across his kicking line, smothering the kick and then scolds him for it, nor would it help when he was clearly ignored by Salem while he was 20 metres in the clear inside 50. Out of the 6 games he's played he's been sub or subbed out 5 times. He will want to start showing some serious improvement however and I don't think a forward line can include all of Him, Chandler, Anb, Pickett and Spargo with McAdam to come. Up to him to start taking these chances otherwise he'll be in strife come the end of the year.

Crowded forward lines are mostly a function of how efficiently teams move the ball and transition from the back half of the ground Ours is crowded mostly because we generally move the ball too slowly allowing the opposition to get numbers back. That is why it sounds like we are trying to improve our ball movement efficiency as it’s directly linked to F50 efficiency We obviously also need a more than one strong contested mark down there (that would be Petty but he’s not available) - Fritta is a great forward but contested marking is not his game and Schache is Schache Watching GWS Sat night they had Brown (jet imo) Hogan, Ricardi and Cadman - pretty handy talls to add to Greene, Daniels and Bedford

I'd bring in Hore. We play 7 defenders in the 22. May, Lever, Tomlinson, Rivers, McVee, Howes and Hore is a strong unit. McVee can take Weightman. I mentioned Woewodin earlier, but I acknowledge that's unlikely. The Dogs are naturally taller in the front half than many other sides, so Hore makes sense as an intercepter at 191cm, who's still agile enough to be a flanker. And it allow Salem to stay midfield. Imagine abandoning Salem as a midfielder after one game after it's been earmarked for two years ? It doesn't make sense to me.

Lot of love for Fullarton Beauty is by comparison but I do wonder how he will fare at AFL level 19 games in five years for Brisbane (12 were in 2021) Good luck to the guy. How was he at Brisbane VFL level?

Agree Salem will return to the backline. Unfortunate, but sensible. Knows the role and solves a problem. Pickett will take some midfield minutes & Laurie will have to step up. Pickett for Bowey Fullarton for Schache Billings for Spargo Maybe a tall as sub? Cupboard feeling a bit bare though

Was last year as well, hopefully a well deserved and overdue AA awaits

I want to see more of this sort of language on Demonland. Egad. Zounds. Fie. Huzzah.

Thanks Kev Perhaps they are trying light training mixed with match days (one can only hope) IIRC Buddy didn't attend match training for his last few years

Surely Salem goes back given Bowey is out. They are the most like for like. We need him to be our composed/skilled high half back. Kossie will come into the midfield at times, to go with Petracca, Oliver, Viney and Sparrow. Billings might also get a full game and can go through the midfield.

@Demonland open the Trading & Draft forum if we lose to the dogs

It's one of the biggest arguments on here. I think it informs most Demonlanders' disappointment. From the starting point of "our list is the best in the competition", losses and finals failures become much harder to stomach. But as you say, when you start thinking about it it becomes hard to justify the argument that we have the best list, or even close to it. We have, at best, an average selection of tall forwards - no matter how you rate Petty and JVR, each of Carlton, Brisbane, GWS, Adelaide, Port Adelaide, Gold Coast, the Dogs, Geelong and Fremantle have better options, even North and West Coast have one tall forward more talented/proven than either of ours. No matter how you rate Pickett, ANB and our other mid/small forwards, many of the aforementioned clubs have equal/better mid/small forwards. And no matter how highly you rate Gawn, Trac, Oliver and Viney, our midfield depth is not necessarily better than Carlton, Collingwood, Brisbane, GWS, the Dogs or Sydney, and in some respects (e.g. wingers, pace and skill) is worse than some/all of those sides. There's no doubt that we have as much proven elite talent on our list as any other side (Gawn, Trac, Oliver, Viney, May, Lever, Frtisch) but a list isn't just a club's top 8-10 A-graders, it's 44 players deep. If you take the two competing arguments - we have a great list and Goodwin's wasting it, or we have an average list and Goodwin's therefore done well to have us in the top 4 for three straight years with a flag - there are seriously substantial reasons to say the latter is the better argument.

I find it strange that a lot of people consider our list so strong - personally I don’t think it’s clearly better than any of GWS , Brisbane , Carlton , Collingwood as examples Is it good and better than half the comp? Probably, but it does have some clear weaknesses imo - I think these have been discussed often and include - Genuine A grade tall forwards - Goal kicking mids - Genuine leg speed - ex Pickett limited options in the true small forward options - Beyond Max no ruck depth - A back six that is very good at most things but a bit shaky when the ball comes in fast and hits the ground Considering some of this I’m not sure anyone should be overly critical of the coach when the last three years we have finished top 4

DONT DO IT! PLAY BBB, FULLARTON, BILLINGS gets a full game and Salem l plays back Out Bowey, Spargo, Laurie, In BBB, Fullarton, Kozzy, Chandler sub

I think Petty, Koz and McAdam all make us better, and i hope we can get them all fit and firing. But let's be patient, it's a long season

The Colt is certainly made of the right stuff, wrestling JV after a heavy training session, love it.!!

BBB in rehab, no running, mainly stretching and simple ball handling.

It could be argued, but any such argument would be weak. Hogan brought supporter interest back during the Roos era, left us for a host of personal reasons which we had no chance of changing, and we “cashed” him in for Steven May, without whom we’d never have won the flag. Jackson then also helped us win the flag and we “cashed” him in for three top picks.

Deep forward looked like Sestans role today. Yet to see him work off the backline, but have seen him as a high half-forward at trainings.

Yes, he has looked ready as soon as he started with us. They must be working on him understanding the roles. Great that he had a few centre bounces with Clarry in the Casey games. Can only help his development. Today he was hitting his targets and no fumbling, all the new young ones have improved the standards at training. The only ones showing some rust, were Melk and Farris-White. Sestan was getting plenty and finishing well in the less defenders sims. Jefferson couldn't get into the sims game, looks lost and needs support on where to position himself. Adams blanketed Fritta during sims.

Why was Spargo in rehab? He didn't play the practice matches, then walks back into the starting 22, then displays laziness/lethargy during the match, then is back in the rehab group at the next training session. Am I missing something, did he get a new injury in the game, or did we just totally [censored] it by picking him?

I would back that in as being quite close to how his recovery is being managed early post op DJ. In theory, if he's pulling up ok post any matches, then we should start to see him spending increased time in the main group as each week passes. The reverse if he isn't pulling up so good. The next step down would obviously not be so positive.

Goody mentioned 3-4 weeks in his presser last week.

Your welcome, the heat wasn't too bad (heating up a bit later), it was the dryness that is draining.

A half fit Petty is probably better than the next choice I think they'll use BBB as the sacrifice forward if he's half fit

Well that’s good news

A little gusty, but not effecting them. Most difficult is the hot wind draining them. The water volunteers were working very hard, constantly sprinting to groups as the whistle for the change-up rings out. Wrestling after the session (Viney and Colt).

Gadzooks! Will we ever fix this!?? Simon should allocate at least one entire training session every week to ensure we are NOT doing this. Even if it means moving Stafford aside and taking over the whole session.

Even though it was introduced in our flag year, I think the stand rule ushered in a new era of ball movement in the afl. It has become very clear that if you could load your back half and midfield with accurate kickers who are fleet of foot, you can effectively march the ball down the field uncontested. Sydney did this very well on Thursday. I think it has drastically reduced the importance of strong contest teams - us and the Bulldogs of '21 - honestly, if you can find a mark and then play with speed, you can get the ball to goal without ever encountering something close to a contest. It feels to me - not sure if the numbers bear this out - that both the absolute number of important contests, and the relative importance of those contests to scoring and defending - has reduced in recent years, and the teams that are trending up aren't necessarily the best contest teams, but ball movement/kick-mark/risk teams with kickers and athletes. We are for the most part, old school - brute, brawn, accumulate in the middle, slow/intercepting down back, weight up numbers up forward. Players like Lever in particular are a bit of a fish out of water in the modern game, unfortunately. We lack speed, we lack skill (comparably) - which was not the way the game trended as we built this list in the lead up to 21. No coincidence imo that the dogs also fell away post '21. Our confidence carried us far in '22 and even last year, but it feels to me watching other games that it is just trending away from our strengths. Recent recruiting and selection I think somewhat confirms this. Taylor Publicly went for "the two best kicks" in '21 (bowey and Laurie - both not necessarily strong contest players at those picks), they've fast tracked McVee who is a rare modern player on our setup, and this year picked Windsor (speed) and Tholstrup (explosive). It feels obvious really when you look at it. Our best players are contest winners, brutes. There are few players you'd back more to win contests than Viney, Petracca, Oliver, Gus, May, Gawn. But most people wouldn't describe any of them as overtly skilful. We all lament how hard our goals seem to be - that's because its who we are. We don't have Nick Blakey to zig his way around 4 layers of the zone defence in one run and then deft one around the corner to a free man at 35. He was literally responsible for about 6 goals on Thursday. Who are the other top sides best players? Daicos X 2, Pendlebury, De Goey, Quaynor, Moore, Hill, Elliott. Kelly, Whitfield, Ash, Coniglio, Daniels, Greene *2, Taylor Neale, Mcclugage, Coleman, Cameron, Zorko, Rayner Blakey, Heeney, Papley, Warner, Gulden, Lloyd Every team has a slightly different profile but other than Kossie, Fritsch who are forwards and on his best days Salem, it just doesn't feel like we have the same mass of skilful line breaking X Factor players that the modern game is rewarding. Certainly not behind the ball. Carlton are an interesting watch as they are built in our image - but not many teams have 2 different Coleman medal winners up forward. Now clearly we've still had a lot of success over the last few years since the stand rule. That's largely because our contest is so good, we're still going to beat most teams outside the top 4. So contest is still important - but I think at the very top level, slightly less important to be good at that than it is to good at moving the ball. I'm not blaming any external factor here - the game is always changing - but ultimately we have a pretty dogmatic coach stuck in a bit of a bygone era and a list built for a slightly different time. This was longer than intended, apologies

This is a hard one picket. At times I think Goody is not a great coach. I then reflect on results. He won us our first flag in 57 years. The last 2 years we have spent 2 weeks out of the top 4. In 22 we had injuries derail our flag chances, with Clarry, Trac, Max and several others all injured in the finals. In 2023 we had injuries absolutely kill us at the end of the year, Gus knocked out and then JVR suspended. We lost all 4 finals in 2022 and 2023, not only with the injuries and suspensions, but with terrible kicking for goal, with more scoring shots than our opposition in every game. We had bad luck with Max touching a goal from Clarry and then a goal being taken off ANB for God knows what against Carlton. So better luck with injuries, dirty knock outs and suspensions, but most importantly reasonable kicking for goal, could have seen us with 2 more flags. What would we say about Goody as a Coach then. Which of the above factors is the Coaches' fault, injuries, suspension, dirty play and poor goal kicking? Would it be unfair to say that Petty, Melk, Gus and/or a fit BBB and Tom Mac playing and we beat the Pies and and go straight into the PF against GWS and then possibly into the GF against Brisbane? Can we criticize Goody for perceived mistakes, absolutely, but gee, look at the above and there is a clear argument to say he is unlucky not to be a triple flag coach right now.

I quite liked Cox when he first started at the Filth ...... but he's developed into a first class [censored] wit. Something to do with the company you keep I suppose.

FWIW I thought we defended Sydney’s switching and rebound game for 3 quarters then ran out of puff once our pressure dropped away

Far out. the Swans scored 22 times from 65 inside 50's we scored 19 times from 51 inside 50's we were more efficient than the Swans, in awful conditions, missing some key players from the front end.

McAdam is not at training. They haven't broken into their 'lines' yet.

We all love Max for the way he plays when we win, then some will come here after a loss demanding he changes his entire demeanor to become a Mumford type. Can’t have it both ways. Max is entitled to not completely dominate a game from time to time. Point your pitchforks elsewhere people.

But thats the Goodwin game plan isnt it?

"Fritsch" works beautifully as a verb in that sentence.

He wore a Maynard mask!

I came on to read the thread in the hope of reading how AMW went, as I have a vested interest. Only to find Demonland hasn't changed much, posters writing off young players, reminiscing for the past, posters sniping at each other etc etc Any chance of an actual report

Not sure why some people are eager to write off a young key forward that hasn't even started his second year. Club was impressed enough with his first year to extend his stay until 2026, if he's not playing regularly by then I'll start to be concerned.

I suggest pretty much everyone on here knows there is a problem. The coach knows it, the FD knows it. As for the headline about us refusing to address it, I would say that's a crock. We've tried a raft of things to address it, some have been successful for short periods, others not. Injury & unavailability has been a big part of the problem...along with unavailable options of players to poach from elsewhere. That is not refusing to address the problem.

The SCG is 8m wider than Giants stadium and only 5m narrower than the MCG. It’s condensed end to end but absolutely a ground where you can and should switch.

Well to switch play effectively you need a couple of things First is players who have good field kicking - we are terribly light on in this area Second is players who are prepared to work hard to run to space even if they aren’t used - I lost count in the game against the Swans the number of times we had possession in the D50 only for our guys to look upfield and see zero movement - it really was quite amazing I saw GWS last night and they work extremely hard to spread and create options and their skills in terms of kicking and handball to advantage seem way better than ours at least at this stage

Do you really think Tim Lamb and co haven't been exploring the possibility of trading in a key forward since 2021? Hell, we brought BBB in that year to fill that precise need, which was a key part of our flag. We have drafted multiple tall forwards since (JVR, Jefferson), clearly conscious of BBB and TMac's injury situations. Dermott seems to think we've been sitting back in banana lounges oblivious to this need. It turns out, quality key forwards are [censored] hard to find, and teams that find one tend to pay them well, making it extremely hard to pry them loose.

As i have said for the last two seasons and early on in Thursday night's match.... "my kingdom for a genuine power CHF". The bolded excerpt below from Dermy tells the tale in terms of not having a genuinely dangerous tall forward. It's also incredible to think that we are still persisting with an ex ruckman (Stafford) as our forward line coach more than two years after attempting to fix our forward line issues and not having any lasting success that consistently stands up (to this point) against the more rated oppo ... “I think Jacob van Rooyen has got some talent and he can mark the ball above his head but the thing about key forward play is that you’ve got to recognise the trigger and it’s less than a second, it’s ‘this ball is coming this way I’ve got to be in the right position’. “Previous to the trigger moment you actually have to start in the right position, and he doesn’t have the right starting position and I don’t know who’s teaching him or not teaching him those little tricks. “They are impotent without ground level players"....

There are a number of good reasons for BBB's inclusion. His forward play nous and experience. His reliable kicking. The fact he will draw defenders and thus take the focus off JVR and frittata. However, given his age and wonky knees, the big question is whether he has the fitness and durability to run out a game at AFL level. Hopefully the coaching staff have and accurate and reliable take on this.