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Congrats to all involved

He will be 28 at the beginning of next year. Ha, ha - the club must think we are in premiership mode!!. We would only chase another tall defender if they were concerned about Lever long term which I doubt. The article talks about May going forward so maybe they are concerned about TMac's foot. If we want a fwd I we should go after a genuine forward rather than turn a key defender into a forward. Adelaide will want our first round pick and they know we will cave in. Walk away.

He popped his head in a few weeks ago -cited wrist slasher fatigue (my words, not his) and claimed he was better off without the Demonland downer every week. I feel the same way sometimes. The endless catastrophising and wallowing in self-pity absolutely does my head in. Just reading it makes me feel drained and tired. Then you get the joys of being abused about it when you have the audacity to try and look on the bright side when things aren’t going well. I usually stay away for a few days after losses, was feeling a bit braver this week though. Edit: I quoted the wrong jumbo returns post, meant to quote the one about @Wiseblood.

I just don't get the "disgraceful performance" posts. Maybe I've seen too many horrendous MFC performances over the years, but gee this was far, far, far from one of those. We started poorly but hung in there. Second quarter was fairly even. I thought we were then the better side in the second half but once again our delivery inside 50 and our kicking for goal destroyed any chance we had of winning the game. Aside from the first quarter, we did a lot right, again, like against the Eagles and Crows. Our skills were worse today than in those two games but with even a moderate improvement in our inside 50 work and finishing we would've been a chance in the last quarter. To me we aren't that far away - we've just got some really specific areas to improve to be back amongst the top 8 teams again. The biggest is obviously the forward line. What we really lack in there is that X-factor/magic/class. It's one-dimensional and no one looks capable of kicking a bag. The players who kicked 3 goals for Collingwood - Stephenson, de Goey and Hoskin-Elliott - are exactly what we lack, players who are explosive, can take a big mark, are dangerous in the air and on the ground, can get separation on their opponents and generally put away their chances. I just don't see our current forward line containing players who have a bag of tricks. This lack of potency was a major difference between the sides today. At the same time, though, there was (and has been all year) some horrendous service to them. A number of times Tommy and Weid led out and the ball was kicked well over their heads. We dominated the centre breaks but just wasted this advantage by either completely missing targets inside 50 or kicking it straight down the throat of Collingwood defenders. Even the best forwards would have struggled with that sort of delivery. So I think we're kidding ourselves if we think it's just delivery or just inside 50 personnel. It's both. But it's fixable and Goody is a smart operator and he knows very well what the problem is. I really like Goody's pressers. He's calm, he's rational, he has a good mix of short term and long term thinking. He knows what's going on. I think it's absolutely ridiculous for people to be potting Goodwin. We have kicked 48.67 in the last five weeks. We've generated enough chances to knock off the Eagles in Perth, the Crows in Darwin and arguably even the Pies today. Missing easy shots has nothing to do with the coach. We are doing a lot right and really haven't been far away from being 4-1 over the last 5 weeks.

I hope we pick a slow inside mid with suspect kicking. It’s the missing piece of our puzzle.

Good move. If we can keep other teams to less than 5 goals, we are a good chance to win 10 -11 games. Enough to sneak into the 8 some years!

If my TV was AI-capable and you asked what it learned recently, it would repeat the single refrain: kick the [censored] thing at the goals. I can't back this up statistically, but I'm pretty sure your odds of kicking a goal are increased by kicking at goals. Maybe us withstanding. This club is mentally damaged. I watch the forwards of Geelong, Richmond, Collingwood, etc. and when the ball enters the 50 they have one clear objective: kick goals. For us, it's like we all have to share it around like some big [censored] Care-bear cuddle-puddle. .

The first couple of minutes of today's game were close to a mirror of the prelim from last year. We had errant handballs and a total lack of system. The only difference in the games is that Collingwood failed to take full advantage & convert early on. No matter what Goody says & Jones says as he did tonight, they haven't adjusted the plan one little bit & that's a big concern. If they think they have tell 'em they're dreaming. Treloar basically said it post game, we knew what Melbourne would bring & we waited, adjusted, took advantage & ran them on the outside. Yeah we can win contested ball but because we have so many drawn into the contest to win it we have no one to give it to and we cough the ball up...and off they go. Within days of Reece Shaw taking over the North job there were obvious changes to the way they played so we can't use the it takes time excuse...but we do. If the coaches are coaching a different plan to what we're playing then we have an even bigger problem than I thought...the players are not listening, the coaches are not communicating. Looking at how we are playing the only thing I can deduce at this point in time is that Goody is not a good coach. From what I am seeing he is stubbornly sticking to a plan that just doesn't work, sticking with players/positions that aren't working, clutching at straws bringing in underdone players. The measure of him going forward will be his ability to reset & adjust. If he can do this rather than stubbornly stick to his current plan then I reckon he will turn the corner. I hope he has the currency (faith from the playing group) to pull it off, after a while he will be out of coin, it will be too late. Buckley & Hardwick pulled it off but it's not a given, if he's good listener, has the right council & we pull the right levers with new appointments then all's not lost. I truly hope this is the case as I couldn't take another coaching change. As we look at things now...is Goody a good coach? No. Very few are in their early years, they need to grow into the role. Will he be a good coach? I sure hope so. A few observations from my first post after the Port game. Max has really stood up, he's not allowing himself to be pushed around. He's back at the top of his game and a credit to himself. Just wish he would stop pushing the ball to the left in his set shots. Tommy Mac is done..for his own good & ours he needs time at Casey. Please...nothing has changed. Hibberd is still struggling, admittedly coming off the collar bone is not helping (rushed back/underdone) but he has been inconsistent and we're not using him well. Fritsch is treading water. I reckon Trac is on track, just not being used to his full potential. See forward set up... Weid needs to stay, he's our best bet forward but with Preuss as his foil & to relieve him of 2nd ruck duties, ...and who is the coach responsible for our forward structure???? the buck has to stop with Goody but why do we insist on this narrow funnel set up at centre bounces. It gives us nowhere to go but wide to no mans land. We get the ball in the middle & look up to 6 forwards & 6 backs all in the the same lane way & kick it there. Is it a wonder the ball rebounds so quickly. There's still a lack of passion & it showed out today. May & Lever will be gold but we paid overs for them. The list needs a lot of work I just hope we can conjure the currency to get us what we need. This year is the drop off year, the measure of the club, coach, FD & players is going to be how/if we bounce back. Expect a full review & some level of power to be taken out of Goody's hands. Everyone got ahead of themselves & changes will be made. I hope we get the right person to do the review, a real smart football operator who knows clubland & success backwards. What's Andrew Ireland doing in retirement, an old Roy boy maybe could do with a couple of months pocket money???? Worth a call Perty...

Apologies if it’s been mentioned already but the modern day coaching is frustrating. How did Garlett end up one out with DeGoey in our back 50? I don’t think I ever saw Farmer in the back pocket.

Made it to the game for the first time yesterday this year, being out in country vic with young kids makes it hard. It crystallised a few thoughts. Firmly in the 'Don't overreact but be disappointed camp' by the way. Hogan out hurts, not even from an output point of view. My thoughts are that he provided confidence to players, and sheltered them from responsibility, he was examined more than most if we had a poor game in terms of scoring. The whole forward half is adjusting to this in 2019, taking one step up each, the slow start hasn't let them build confidence that they can fill the shoes of the one above them last year. This has played out in our connection moving forward and I think our goal kicking lately. Goals feel precious and hard earned, the pressure to kick them is amplified and it is playing on minds of footballers low on confidence anyway. Tmac is endemic of this. He is still working hard, but his decision making or forward craft is severely compromised at the moment. Its partly not having played alot forward, and hardly ever as the main man. Each time someone was about to kick where he was leading he changed directions. When a player kicking was under pressure and had no way to carry and break the line he lead backwards. When there wasn't room to lead forward he lead forward and got chopped off because he had to take slow steps. Others manifest this forward of the ball with a lack of cleanliness. I'll use Spargo here to demonstrate. He was clean last year, one of his most endearing qualities. It meant he capitalised. He just isn't quite at the moment. Along with a host of others. This is playing out in the midfield with kicking as well. Skills are just a fraction off. Or at least the consistency of there execution is. It is a trust in self and trust in others things. The good news for me is all of this is eminently fixable. It is too late for this year I think but the games coming home are incredibly important, they are all winnable. We have played probably 4 of the top 6 teams this year over the last month. There ability to pressure and affect our execution is why they are good teams. And with a bit of luck we could have won 1 or 2 of them. I still have faith in this list and the direction. We've a chance to add some more quality over the next off season, but I wouldn't be searching for too much change. Things need refinement, players need confidence. But we don't need to start over. We have all the raw ingredients for a flag push. Get them working well, get them focused and invested. Keep looking for opportunities to add to the mix, in terms of personal, ideas and method. You have to be lucky to win a flag, it doesn't mean you change everything after each attempt. Even if they do go badly. Learn, reset, adjust and go again.

Petracca was good today...the only one who didn't fumble & looked poised with ball in hand.

We can’t trade our first round pick this year . Thank. God!

You guys are so bloody idiotic and DELUDED - He’s our best young player by FAR overall in upside and our ONLY elite groundball player. Seriously you ppl scare living [censored] out of me sometimes.

Jones will get to 300. He may not have the impact he once did, but he is still a hell of a lot better then some 18 year old kid who will take years to develop, or a mature age rookie who needs to learn our structures and game plan. It also gives guys like Sparrow, Dunkley and Jordon more time to develop and not thrown in the deep end playing in the First's.

Doesn’t look aggressive. Just passionate. Hore is a rookie but he is a mature aged player. Don’t think he would run home and cry about being given some directions from a senior player.

Another disgraceful effort by you JoeBoy - makes me wonder if you actually ever go to the game. Fritsch - best game 2019 Brayshaw - shades of 2018 Harmes - our prime mover Petracca - another step forward Weid - finally showing something

"1984" turned 70 years old recently. Every day George Orwell is proven to be a genius. He only got the year wrong. The Thought Police are here and among us. The AFL are adept at Doublespeak. I see the AFL Fans Association wants a list of words people can say and can't say at the football. How has it come to this? As my dear old Dad used to say - the world has gone mad.

Because our coaches are slaves to sports science and number crunching and have forgotton to use their own experience and instincts as players, and human beings. The tail is wagging the dog. And the dog is getting dizzy and is passing out. Look for a doubling down on the strategies that have proved unsuccessful this year. Meanwhile the fans are trying to say "but he's not wearing any clothes!!!!!" What would we know.

This annoys the hell out of me. This is like a snooker player saying "I've noticed good players sink most balls in the top two pockets. I'm going to sink EVERY ball in those pockets. Think how good I'll be then!" It's backwards. It's cargo cult science. A. he is then actually limiting his ability to score, and B. his opponent then stymies him by deliberately leaving balls up the other end of the table. In other news, there is a very strong correlation between people dying from being tangled in their bedsheets, and profits made by ski resorts. It's almost exact. (True fact. Look it up.) Now, it's clear, to stop people dying in the bedsheets, we just need to reduce the profits made by ski resorts. That's the kind of thinking we're facing here. Meanwhile our opponents are wise to this and clog up the space in front of goal. But hey, what if we park TWO players 25m out from goal. Or ..... (lowers voice in case opposition coaches can here) .... what if we park THREE players 25m out! Numbers can show a lot of things you wouldn't ordinarily notice, especially when presented in visual form (graphs, pie charts), but to be a slave to the numbers is as foolish as only betting on horses that have your "lucky" number.

Garlett out - no point in having a small forward who can't take a set shot at goal. Horribly inaccurate.

I have never been more relieved to have a bye this week.... Don't really care who comes out, looks like Viney and Tmac are not fit... But I think we need to get some games into KK & Pruess both of which could fill a need. I would give the wing roles to KK & Baker for the year and see what they can do in the last 10 games. Give Pruess & Max 10 games to work on playing together, see if we can make it work. Keep May & Lever in to build chemistry. Let Jetta, Melksham, Smith, VDB recover for the rest of the year and get them right for day 1 of the pre season. IF Garlett and Lewis are not in the plans for 2020 then thank them for their services and not play them again. I wouldn't mind seeing a few more games into Petty & Keilty. Persist with Spargo because he CAN be creative he is just completely devoid of confidence... Play Jones as a half forward and keep him there. I still think we will likly win another 4 games minimum for the year and probably net us pick 3-5.... Lets prey we nail that pick, GET CONIGLIO and start pre-season the fittest team in the comp.

A gaulling result as Coll were a long way from their best, Grundy played injured and they didn't get out of third gear. The narrative has changed from preseason/injuries being our problem to skill/efficiency being our problem. All true but are they the real problem?. Elephant in the room: Game Plan. Based on last night's comments by Goodwin and Jones everyone knows it but them. Opposition mantra: 'match them on the inside and we will beat them on the outside'. Translated as: let them 'win' the clearances, contested possessions and i50 stats because we know they will turn it over and they can't catch us going fwd to get easy goals!! That is why I no longer have faith in us winning those statistics. The opp are happy to 'lose' in those areas knowing they will belt us elsewhere. Akin to 'lose the battle but win the war' tactics. I don't want to lose faith in our leaders but I need to hear something from the club to say they understand the real problem and prepared to address what everyone else knows!!

You see our players looking round, checking that they are guarding space - in the middle of nowhere between three opposition players. This happens from a kick-out all the way down the ground. Chip-kick to unmarked player, chip-kick to unmarked player, all the way - by the centre-line the opposition are lining up for the optimum line of attack, and presto, another goal. Our players do this because they have been told to do it. They are footballers, following counter-intuitive instructions, and getting sliced wide every time - and we wonder why they have lost confidence? Treloar explained it, in case anyone didn't realise what's going on. We are not fast enough, but not told to be on the man anyway. So by the time we have a shot at goal, after a couple of quarters of this rubbish game plan, we are as lacking confidence to kick straight as our stupidity has made the opposition totally can't-miss confident. Plus Macdonald is plainly not fit. I can't see that Viney is either. Jones is finished. We have gone in every week with the team knowing we are handicapped in terms of personnel as well. Neeld was our schoolmaster teaching what happens when the coach messes with the players' heads and with their natural competitive instincts. This is looking like a re-run - all the way to a spot in the middle of nowhere.

Hannan is a player that has always gone missing for large stretches of matches, like JKH, and has fallen into the 'better player while not playing' genre of players that some fans think we need to get into the team to turn our fortunes around. Meanwhile players who they want out, like Spargo are consistently getting to the ball and in on most of the action all day and so highly visible mistakes are bound to be made.

Does anyone know why we don't have full time umpires? Surely it wouldn't be a cost factor? Clubs now have enormous staff levels and a myriad of assistants yet the umpires are still part time. Considering the sport is by far the hardest sport to officiate, you'd reckon it would be a no-brainer. $2.518Billion from the last media rights yet we still have part time umpires? But that is the AFL for you. Incompetent custodians. If there isn't a dollar in it, they're barely interested. I have come around to the point where I believe full time umpires would make a significant difference. As an aside, the game yesterday didn't have a lot of congestion which made the game a lot easier to umpire. The game day thread here is often laced with any number of people baffled by the officiating but there was barely a word said about the umpiring. Which confirms my belief that if the game was opened up a lot more, there would be a lot less angst towards the umpires. Fix the sport and make the umpires full time and then go from there.

Hey guys, can pretty much confirm there's not much substance to this. The club would look at it for the right price (contract and trade wise), but at this stage this all at the doings of his manager who is trying to ramp up negotiations for his client. Not surprising Tom Morris is involved given the tone of his articles about the club since being basically shunned. Obviously I'm a random on the internet so take it as you will, but that info was passed on to me by someone who has got much right in the past. Cheers!

It shouldn't need stating but Fritsch plays in the backline because we haven't anyone else. Against Adelaide, he started there because five of the nominal starting back seven (May, Lever, Hore, Jetta, Salem) were out injured/ill. Yesterday it was because Frost was concussed early. We should remember how valuable he is in that (1) he so far has not been unavailable due to injury and (2) he is a reasonable option to push back when necessary. I imagine both the Match Committee and Fritsch himself would rather that he play on the wing or forward, but needs have required that he play in defence.

And AFL undercover spotters claims the Richmond Cheer Squad. Surely the AFL has better things do than spend energy and money on stopping fans from cheering or cheering loudly. If these stories are even half accurate the AFL has lost the plot big time.

Of course this would be countered if Melbourne kicked the goals that continually miss. We havent hurt the opposition when presented with the opportunity so the pressure on the ball carrier ramps up and in response we goo harder and so the cycle continues so we are dead on our feet at the end. If we are going to play this style of game two things are needed . 1) we must convert all our opportunities 2) We must be the fittest team in the competition We are neither and the seasons results speak for them selves.

Agree with all of this - Melbourne are being beaten the same way every week. Throughout the day I heard three different Collingwood players state that Melbourne would rush at the ball in all parts of the ground, and they would simply pick the ball/ball carrier off once the ball was won by Melbourne. In the finals last year, Geelong and Hawthorn tried to match Melbourne at this without success. West Coast played smarter rather than harder, knowing that the high press, rush the ball, 'chaos' style can be countered if you back off a little, encircle and pressure the ball carrier, and are willing to push the ball into space once the turnover is achieved. Teams seem to be allowing Melbourne's gameplan to play out as scripted without fear it will damage them and comfortable that it will allow them to be efficient the other way. That this is continuing after 13 games is an absolute indictment on the club. Yes, the list has been in bad shape (and mismanaged imo), but I also believe that Melbourne looks like it's players are unfit, slow, and lazy because the gameplan is horrendously inefficient (i.e. so much work has to be done to score and defend), and places people out of position for anything but push forward, repeat stoppage, and contested ball win. There are two key examples of this that are happening each and every game: 1) The forward line 'box' setup that asked the ball to be placed inside that box 30m out from goal, leading to what seems to be a crowded and unskilled forward line as forwards rush the ball and compete against eachother; and 2) The midfield instruction to win the ball at all costs, where midfielders are either out of position once the ball is lost (too close to the play), or are unable to break through the encirclement and are out of position once the ball is turned over. Time to try and construct some goals through control and creativity, rather than just beating other teams over the head through brute force. Oliver, Brayshaw, Viney, Gawn, Jones, Harmes, etc. are all great ball winners, and it's time to allow them to do that and build the team around them winning the ball as opposed to having the entire team emulate them.

Bring in Preuss to run straight through Hogan, then they wont have a forward line either

Agree. All the signs are there that he is being handicapped. Put him out and get it right for next year.

my thing with today is that you can't fault the effort; the execution was absolutely appalling however it wasn't for want of trying by the playing group, but our game plan (chaos footy) is clearly not working and our structure losing smith going into the game and then frost five minutes into the game cruelled us of opportunity to execute whatever the plan - whatever it may be other than 'get it, waste it' - may be ultimately, it was the second best team in the competition playing the third worst, and we got taught a lesson in skill and ability my three biggest bugbears: lack of skill by hand and foot lack of defensive running from midfield lack of ability to lower eyes entering i50 it was just all panic, panic, panic very disheartening

Hilarious. Your name perfectly describes your post.

here they are

as long as total silence included the venue's loudspeakers too

Which game were you watching? Really.....Hannan & Hunt? Hannan 3 touches up to half time & a missed chest mark that my grandson would have taken. Had a stinker, again, & one of the worst on the the day (53% efficiency & 5 turnovers) Hunt I like but didn't like much today.....9 possessions & 53% efficiency..... Are you serious or am I missing something? Not many positives that I can see here......

At least we were reminded of who the real #1 ruck is