Leaderboard

I know it is probably a bit early for this thread so feel free to keep venting, but I thought I would highlight the following for some perspective. Total games played: Oliver - 47 Salem - 56 Petracca - 50 Hogan - 63 Brayshaw - 45 O Mac - 49 Lever - 67 Like it or not, the reality is these guys are inexperienced and will be inconsistent - aside from the freak that is Clarry. We could fluke a flag in the next 2 years but going by past trends, we should be a consistent strong team from around 2 years time when our talented core is around 100 games. Just look at our main consistent performers: Gawn (86 games), Jetta (128) and T Mac (133) Collingwood should be performing better, their best players are all in the sweet spot of experience and that experience showed yesterday. All is not lost, we just need to keep improving. Beat port and get the season on track again.

Classic Demonland. One loss and we're making 6 changes to the side. It won't go that way. There are a few who are on the edge, and no doubt they'll want to change things up a little, but six changes? The Suns will be making six changes. We'll make two, maybe three tops.

If we are who we thought we were on Monday morning - we will play finals. I am more interested in when we will have a win that show we have become a flag chance and I haven’t had that moment yet. It may happen this year but it might not... I think we are out of excuses/reasons pretty soon.

I must have been at a different game today. Okay I played down back in my time and you always look bad when the midfield gets smashed. We got smashed in the clearances today and I thought Lewis stood up and showed us his experience big time.

I'd be more concerned with Bernie Vince then Lewis.

Overreaction. Have a cup of tea mate.

Afternoon fellow Demonlanders! With the bye well and truly upon us, and a poor performance in our back pocket alongside 6 rippers, it's time to reflect on where we are at. Here are some questions that I thought might be worth answering and I'd be interested to see what people think. Try and look at the season as a whole - it would be easy to let yesterday cloud our judgement, or even the six games before it, so take a deep breath and look at the whole 12 rounds so far. Here are the questions to answer: What do you rate our performance out of 10 to this point? Why? Which player has impressed you the most? Which draftee has made the biggest impact? What has been our best win to date? Which player(s) needs to improve in the second half of the year? What has been our most disappointing performance? Where do you see us finishing? Give a win/loss and finishing position Remember - it's your opinion, so knock yourself out. Fancy us to still finish Top 2? Reckon we'll fall at the last hurdle again? Let us know. Positive or negative I think it's a good time to reflect on the year so far, so if you have the time to answer the questions I think it would be great to see what everybody thinks. Enjoy!

My my main concern is when teams consistently apply pressure for 4 quarters we can’t handle it. We have lost to teams that have done this to us and we will go nowhere in the finals if we make it because of it. Its something that urgently needs to be addressed otherwise we are in for another wasted season. The bye has come at a really good time imo.

Feel sorry for Pedo. Comes back into the team when our centre-line goes to crud again, in a match that will possibly mark the end of his career. A game where Hogan only tallied the three marks and didn't trouble the scorers either. Hardly their fault.

The notion of JKH being in our afl 22 frightens me

I was waiting to see who would drop their bundle the hardest. Well done, DeeSpencer. You've won by the length of the Flemington Straight.

Smith - battled pretty well

Strangely I actually think this could be good for both Jayden and us. He just hasn't looked like himself this year. After every drill in preseason he'd labour back to the group hands on hips. The brilliance of his speed was that he could sprint to get the ball, gather and burst again, there was little of that this year. Lots of fumbles instead. He didn't seem to be coming good at Casey. So some time off and a rest for his body might do him some good. I wouldn't rush him either. Give him a good amount of time to get healthy and get him back at Casey hopefully with a few VFL and AFL games left and there's always plenty of time for him to come in to the team.

can we just remember that two games ago trac picked up 22 possessions and kicked three goals straight yep, he wasn't good yesterday, but he wasn't alone - the hand-wringing over his form is a little excessive

I thought he played exceptionally well. Made a few errors, but il cop them when hes a 4th gamer and trying to take risks. Absolutely loved his desperate smother which resulted in a goal for us. With more experience I reckon he'll become a handy defender.

I would move Petracca back to a half forward role, with no midfield time and put Tyson back in. Probably at the expense of Hannan. Spargo went missing for the entire first quarter and isn't hitting the scoreboard. I'd bring Garlett back and give him a crack. And...I can't believe I am about ti write this. Frost has to come in. We are too think down back to handle Dixon, Westhoff & Watts. Frost to Dixon, O Mac to Westhoff, J Smith to Watts. In - Tyson, Garlett & Frost Out - Hannan, Spargo, Pedersen.

Once it was decided to play Tom Mc forward Lewis' job during the preseason was to tutor Lever. Early this year Lewis said "One of the gaps was a little bit of leadership down back...That's not to say that I'll play there next year but certainly throughout the pre-season, I think I'll train the majority of the time in the backline." Once the season started, Lever was marshalling the backs under Lewis' wise eye - watching but not interfering (and I'm guessing there was a bit of post game debriefing). Now that Lever is out the marshalling role has reverted to Lewis and he did a fine job of it yesterday. Very obvious at the ground not sure if so obvious on tv. Yes, Lewis' weaknesses will be exposed but every player has some and every opp coach will work to exploit them. Lewis has more positives than negatives so for me he stays until Lever returns. @DeeSpenceryou are a fine reporter of training sessions and they are much appreciated. From what you've seen if Lewis is dropped who takes over the marshalling role?

I thought Lewis was great yesterday. When I was watching off the footy he was invariably the designated loose in the absence of Lever and the fact we couldn’t afford to move Hibberd off Sidebottom. Buckley really took Goodwin to school yesterday... but that is another thread. In an interesting aside - Lewis has to do more than we would want him to do when Viney went down last year and now history may repeat with Lever. I am very comfortable having someone like him back there. Really think the OP doesn’t like him and is waiting for any and every to blast him. Sad.

It's exactly the same back line, minus Lever, we've had for the previous 6 games. It didn't seem to worry us then. The Pies were at their absolute best today and had a game plan that took us a part. That doesn't mean we make 6 changes. It means we go away and look for ways to ensure it doesn't happen again.

I'll echo the others and say you were very harsh on Smith. Also Gus sacrificed himself today to tag Phillips out of the game. It meant he wasn't as prolific with the ball, but Phillips has been on fire and he shut him completely out of the game. He deserves some credit for that.

Watching near the fence behind Punt Rd goals the bolded bit stuck out the most. Collingwood did it well and we took no risk in trying to open it up. Carbon copy of the Hawks and Tigers games yet it seemed we went in with no counter plan. On the other hand we were all at sea when Collingwood started their forward forays from defence. I thought we would have sorted it out already after the early losses.

What do you rate our performance out of 10 to this point? Why? 7/10. Have put away sides like we haven't in the past so that's a real positive, however against good sides we still struggle. Haw, Geel, Coll, Rich. Which player has impressed you the most? Tom McDonald and Nev Jetta. Which draftee has made the biggest impact? Bayley Fritsch. What has been our best win to date? v Adelaide in Alice. Which player(s) needs to improve in the second half of the year? Christian Petracca by a mile.....then followed by Jones, Salem, Vince, Lewis. What has been our most disappointing performance? Collingwood. 2nd spot on the line at the bye, Neale Daniher/MND day and big stage and crowd, succumbed to pressure against the side that stopped us from playing finals in 2017. Where do you see us finishing? Give a win/loss and finishing position 6-8th. 13-9 Fancy us to still finish Top 2? Not now. Clearly still a middle of the road side who beats up weak opponents and struggles against top sides. Reckon we'll fall at the last hurdle again? Will be close. Need to beat the weak sides again and get an upset or two from Port, Adel, WCE or Syd. We need to beat these sides to consider ourselves a chance of stealing a flag.

If we had won yesterday there'd be a thread about our impending top 2 finish. But alas, we lost and now there's a thread about potentially not making. Smash Port in Adelaide and everyone and thing will be as right as rain again.

Still filthy we gave up Dunn so easily. We needed backline general and just controlled their backline so well and took Hogan to the cleaners. And still playing great footy too!

We got beaten by a far superior team on the day ... Collingwood's best is as good as any of the better teams except they often don't play at their best. But that's their problem, not ours. Our issue is that we're a 12-14 win team which means we're a team that is almost certainly going to lose 8-10 games. Or perhaps only 7 losses but definitely not more than 10 losses. That is how good we are. We lost the game because we got smashed at the clearances and the opposition were able to use the ball exceptionally well once they won the ball at the contest. But some teams can win the ball well and then not use it very well so the clearance numbers don't often tell the true story. But Collingwood do use the ball well when they are on. So do we but it's impossible to play possession football if you don't have the ball. We can play a lot better and we will play a lot better ... we're just not that good a side where we can do it all the time. We have to win the clearances by a good number in order to give ourselves a chance against the better teams ... we came up way short yesterday but we live to fight another day. Our defence was under siege yesterday so there's no point pointing the finger in that direction.

Now we are getting closer to the core problem. Leadership. Max Gawn was giving us the ball but nobody grabbed it. Bar 10 mins in the 2nd Q. Leaderships always kills us when the heat is on. That said TMac showed his real leadership qualities in full. Jones played his usual game against a good opposition, Viey was like a kitten running on 2 Cylinders...

Ha! I had the same results when I did the Ladder Predictor this morning... then I looked at my tipping results to this stage of the year and realised that the chances of this being even close to accurate are 1000-1. There are way too many variables to go into a single round of football, let alone half a year. No team has makes the finals in June. Form, injuries and luck.

BPP predicting us to miss the finals? Get outta town!

There's nothing 'apparently' about it. His leadership at the club, from what I've heard, has been excellent since the day he arrived. He's never been quick so why we're all up in arms about him being slow is baffling. He hits way way way more targets than he misses (and plenty at our club are prone to horrible turnovers) and his discipline this season has been good. DS has just decided yesterday that he needs someone to sink the boots into. Lewis seems to be his man. He's done this before though where he huffs and puffs and stomps his feet (Tom McDonald) and has been made to look silly, so there's no reason why it won't happen again.

Needs to reset. Perhaps dominating a game or two at Casey will do him good, and remind him that his spot in the side isn’t a given, which I feel he might think is the case. With a few players knocking on the door at VFL it’s unfair to let players who are down on form keep their spot based on reputation. Then what incentive do guys at Casey have to perform?

Is that you, Trac?

We're not a premiership contender. We're not a top 4 contender. And if we play like this against any side who turns the pressure up, we're barely a top 8 contender. Until we beat someone ranked higher than Adelaide on the ladder, the big question mark will deservedly remain. The pressure we faced today was off the charts compared to the pressure placed on us in the six wins and we looked more like the team in the first 5 rounds than the one in the next 6. Gawn and Grundy was a great battle all day I thought, and there was no obvious winner. Thought the umpires gave Grundy too much leeway but Gawn fought back. However, because Gawn didn't dominate, our mids didn't get the armchair ride they've been getting. Couple that with a stronger opposition midfield, and the smashing in the clearances becomes easier to understand. We need to work out how to adjust when sides get right on top in the middle because once we lose the quick movement out of the stoppages, we fall apart around the ground. Joel Smith was OK today, but will need more time to settle in. We need to give him not just the Port game but the three after (St Kilda, Fremantle, WB) to see if he can settle. I'll back us in to respond against Port without making too many changes. However, Pedersen can't play the role he was asked to play and should be dropped for Weideman. Don't bother trying that again. We also have to make a call on Petracca soon. He's bottom 6 at the moment and IMO getting games based on potential/reputation, not on form. You are, without a doubt, the worst poster on this board. Everything you write is tripe. Everything.

So are you

Very harsh on Gawn. He smashed Grundy for most of the match, to the point that they stopped letting him take centre bounces and put Cox in there instead. Grundy racked up some cheap numbers rucking against Pedersen which makes his stats look more respectable, but the only thing he had over Gawn today was his tackle count.

Question for those who claim we still “haven’t beaten anyone”, what would you expect from 8-4? More of the 8 to be against good sides, and a bad loss or two against poor sides to make up the 4? Anyone who says now that they wouldn’t take 8-4 at the start of the season is flat out lying. We’re an imperfect side that put in an imperfect performance, against a team poised to smash us with it on the day. We aren’t going to smash everyone all the time. Nothing but a speed hump for mine. The impact on my belief that this is a good, capable side is negligible.

In a rut??? The blokes done sweet [censored] all the entire year this far. Needs a monumental rocket shoved up his ass!!

I’d agree with the OP if the subject was Vince. Lewis is providing far more right now than Vince. Maybe that says more about Vince than Lewis.

Agree, we crumble when the heat is applied, it’s our biggest issue. Good teams absorb it and turn it back on the opponent. The biggest issue around this is leadership, there is none. Jones never stands up when chips are down, walks around with hands on hips.

Anyone suggesting Baker is near ready for senior selection is kidding themselves.

Haven't we? That's funny. I thought we'd smashed 6 teams off the park recently, but there you go. We played nobody. One loss doesn't equal panic stations. It's why Goodwin is in the chair and not one of us. They are slightly more sensible than any supporter after a loss.

Honestly I felt this was about the set up and the ruck contest. Before the dogs we were dominating out of the middle by winning the ball from the tap. Today we constantly seemed out of position when the ball dropped, but worse one of Collingwoods mids dropped halfway out of the contest once the ball went to the "far side" meaning they always had a player outside ours (if we won the first ball this "outside" player shut us in so we couldn't get the clearance, and if they won they could get it out that bit easier). We were too close into the pack today, a bit more like last year, less space. I think we lacked Brayshaw's outside link today. Unsure if this is our set up problem or the way Collingwood made us play.

Interesting coaching move to put your most recently prolific ball getter in a tagging role. Needs to be analysed a little more methinks

Lewis was gutless today - second to the contest and unaccountable. Not sure what game you were watching

Cannot deny that today was a huge disappointment. Big game, big crowd and big stakes at play... and we failed to show up. It's not good enough from many of the players out there today, and no doubt over the break they'll take a good, hard at look at what went wrong today. Our clearance work, for the second game in a row, was very poor and our want to run hard both ways fell away at crucial times. Too often we had quick kicks forward that just landed in their laps, and then they were away. But it's not the end of the world. Seriously, it isn't. I know this thread will be filled to the brim with over the top statements, people slamming players, questioning Goodwin and so forth. But before you slam your keyboard, consider this: If you were told we would be 8-4 at the bye, would you have taken it? Of course you would have. It's okay to have bumps in the road as we won't win every week. It just won't happen. And so what if we're taking a little extra time to get there? Just because we may not win the flag this year is no reason why we aren't in prime position for a tilt over the next 3-4 seasons. And last time I checked we're still right in the eight and in a fantastic position to make some waves in September. We've fallen over a few times and we have things we need to address, but really, this is only a small stumbling block for the club. We have already shown the ability to get better and change the way we play - the previous 6 weeks are a testament to that. And I'd rather have a game like this now than later in the year. Hopefully the boys take stock of where they are at today and do all they can to improve upon it over the second half of the season.