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So it's not a myth then ? A myth is a false belief, but now you're saying the jury is out ? Btw, I don't agree with your evaluations and some of your judgments are either too early or wrong. Who was taken after Hunt that makes this selection anything other than stunning ? We were desperate to improve our midfield, so I can't see any logical supporter questioning the Brayshaw decision. He'll be a star in my view. Your concerns on Weideman at such an early stage seem very premature, but fair enough, your opinion. Oscar and vandebBerg are very good picks after 50 of the ND - "limitations" or no limitations. Oliver may go down as one of the best picks by a recruiter since the inception of the draft (1986). And no, it's far too early to call Salem a "disappointment" on the back of an injury plagued third year. He's already shown his class in his first two. I find your assessments strange. You'd have to go out of your way to take the negative position you seem to have.

To me that amounts to Salem for pick 19. The club's strategy in the last few years has been to take the fastest route possible towards improvement. All our trade types have supported this: 1) trading out picks for experienced players; 2) trading future picks for picks this year to get the jump on development, and 3) trading late picks for fringers at other clubs who are about the right age. Yours is type 4) trading out talent (unrealized at this stage) and going back to the well. It's a regressive strategy. I can't support that and it's at odds with everything the club has worked towards in the last three years.

He took 14 marks on the weekend, including 5 contested marks and people want to unmercifully slag him. The kicking is an issue, but sort that out and he'll be a leading figure in the competition in year's to come.

That's not what she said at all. She said Melbourne gets frustrated as he seems to waver after he's visited home, but when asked whether she thinks he'll stay or go she replies "I actually couldn't call it to be honest, I couldn't call it". It is incredible to me that people cannot accurately pass on what they hear. And it happens continually.

Just before people trade Salem like some wanted to delist Hunt, I will pass on the comments of a father of a boy, who played in Salem's year and saw him often and whose opinion has proved pretty accurate in the past. He told me that Salem was the equal of Kelly and that he thought he could be a great AFL player, when he fully develops and gets some games under his belt. Said he was hard at the contest, silky skilled and with a lethal left foot.

Some of the comments directed towards Jesse are warranted, such as the need to improve his goal kicking and lay more tackles, but other detractions I would place into two boxes. 1) unrealistic expectations for a CHF in his second full season. Compare him with whomever you like and statswise, he'll knock them out of the park. Carey, Ablett, even Tom Lynch if you want. If you expect him to come in and win the Coleman and kick goals every week, I'd class these as unrealistic expectations for a young forward being double and triple teamed every week. It's also worth noting he has actually statistically improved his tackle count on his first season. 2) a bit of the old defence mechanism. It'd be very interesting to know if half the posters that knock him now, would do so had he signed earlier in the year. I think this failure to put pen to paper has contributed to frustration within MFC supporter ranks and fair enough to a degree. So in turn much of this response, I believe, is a defence mechanism in response to the possibility of him leaving. But you still have to remember he is a 21 year old CHF, playing the toughest position on the ground, in a forwardline that has (at times) placed an overemphasis on passing and looking for him. Don't expect the best from Jesse for another 2-3 years. If he's kicking 40-odd in his development years, just imagine how good he'll be with natural improvement and experience. The fact that he set the bar so high last year, should not detract from his solid 2016. Would he have liked to kick a little straighter this year? Of course. In all honesty I believe we may have won 2-3 more games had he done so, but ultimately he's still 3 goals outside of the top 10 for goalkickers in the league, so it's not as if he's had an ordinary year. Anyone that choses to spin it that way has an agenda of their own.

We should be showing Essendope zero respect. Offer them our third rounder, or try get him to walk as a delisted free agent. If Essendrug try to play hard ball, then drop interest altogether. We will get by just fine without Hibberd.

You do realise that none of those players were available to the MFC in the 2013 draft ? They were all rookie upgrades and selected in drafts prior to 2013 - Hunt's draft.

I'm not going to criticise Paul Roos because overall he has been wonderful for the Club but the match day coaching yesterday was terrible & arguably cost us any chance of a win. Selections were poor. With Garlett out the obvious move was to bring in Kennedy Harris or Ben Kennedy for their crumbing ability & I thought Salem was the obvious replacement for Harmes. Also why on earth drop Pedersen who has been handy & is a strong body in wet conditions. To the game - Carlton have 3 dangerous players Cripps & Gibbs on the ball & Simpson in defence who sets them up. None of these 3 had a hard tag. Vince who was scratchy in defence should have gone on to Cripps. As is was we were beaten in the clearances & centre bounces. The team failed to adapt to wet weather & continued to overuse handball usually until they turned over the ball. Melbourne allowed Carlton to have a spare defender most of the day which resulted in them taking lots of uncontested marks. Dumb, dumb, dumb match day coaching. And seriously in this day & age why do our players have the wrong boots on & keep falling over.

Worsfold saying early 2nd round pick would be fair for Hibberd. Our 2nd round pick will be in first 8 picks of 2nd round. Therefore an early 2nd round pick. Deal is done.

If you read through his assessments again, he literally goes out of his way to not give any pick a full pass mark. The Hunt one leaves me shaking my head - it's turned out to be a sensational pick, one I didn't even see coming, yet because there were other good players around it's just a 'good' pick. Baffling.

hasn't been the same in 2016 since hurting his shin against the power in the alice.

Just quietly i have heard rumors Paul Roos will be moved on at seasons end. Read on to it what you will

I don't necessarily either Stuie, although it didn't stop GWS recruiting a 32 year old Steve Johnson who has been invaluable to players like Toby Greene and their development. These players still have a role to play in any football side.

Not semantics, just a mistake. This business of people being "taken around" Hunt is an utter nonsense. Taylor only had access to players available at pick 57, not those taken before. Name ONE pick after Hunt that is any good. I'll disagree on Salem. He's a young player with tremendous class that is miles off his best. Let's talk when he's played 60-80 games. As for Kennedy-Harris and Neal-Bullen, neither does much for me either, but I don't expect him to nail every 40+ pick. Do you ? Steven Wells has plenty of failures. Taylor's record looks superb to me any way I want to slice it or dice it.

This is exactly the type of post you report about others abusing you stuie. Guys if you can't stop the personal attacks then perhaps the only solution is for all of you to go. Play the ball not the man. Last warning for a few of you. Next time I'll pull the plug without warning.

I still think Vince is a much better mid than a half back and that's where we should be playing him, as a midfield rotation, i'm sure if Hibberd comes on board he'll slot back into the midfield mix

The bombers need to realise he's been out of the AFL system for 12 months, there is no way of knowing how long it will take these players to re-adjust to that lifestyle, and training and if they'll be able to deliver right away, i have no doubt these players will be a long way below their best. personally think pick 27 is a little generous if anything.

The commentariat is a microcosm of footy supporters in general - only capable of remembering the last thing it saw. How often do you read on here after a poor loss: "oh woe, we're not going to win another game for the year"? It's the same - this year's premiers always forecast to be next year's premiers and so forth. It comes as no surprise to me that after one poor game, they've forgotten all the good they've seen. The analysis for the most part is shallow and tedious to read. Like you didn't say but implied: who cares what they reckon. The game is too dynamic and subject to too many forces for the dimwits in our media who report on it.

Ok, ok. I know this is a Hibberd thread but I wanted to pick up on this. 2013 included getting Sylvia out for Vince (tick); Bringing across Cross (tick), Dom Tyson (tick), I'll ding him for Riley and Michie but we paid pick 54 for this. In terms of that draft and you are saying Salem is a disappointment. Salem has been injured which is beyond his control and when he has played he has been very valuable. Now - lets crystal ball this and look at who else was taken after him Freeman (no), Sheed (WA boy), Cripps (well would have liked him but no one would have guessed this, everything thought 13 was reaching), McCarthy (WA boy), Jones (Salem's showed more), etc etc. The only one I'd say would be good would have been Matt Crouch at 23 but he is a poor man's Viney. Salem is what we needed and is still very young. Remember JKH started like a house on fire and again injuries have let him down. He's been very good at Casey the past few weeks so lets let the 21 year old have an injury free pre-season. After him was Kolodjashnij, Alir, Byrne-Jones, and Fantasia - all of which have only showed something in the back end of this year. Also nailed Hunt, nailed Harmes, Max King we can say might not work out (Rookie), Georgiou was a bust but played a role in his first year, and the faith in Nev to rookie was paid off. That is more ticks than crosses from 2013 and if Salem and JKH develop he has nailed 2013. 2014 Garlett (tick), Frost (tick), Lumumba (injuries), and then you cannot help but look at this draft and smile. Trac (tick), Brayshaw (tick). Now you can say they picked themselves, but so did Wines. You need to be brave enough to pick the player and not think what could we develop Wright/Lever/Ahern in to. Stretch (tick), McDonald (tick), AVB (tick), White (tick - he has played AFL games as a rookie, that is enough for a tick when you see that most Rookies dont), ANB has played really well in the 2's but hasnt transferred that to the big stage. I believe this is because he is playing out of position in the AFL and in another side where he can play as a midfielder he'll have a greater impact. Time will tell and I'll leave that as open ended. So from this year we'd say that H might have been handled better and ANB could have been Caleb Daniel. Overall that is a great strike rate. 2015 Melksham trade (TBC) but for the record if I had that pick I would have got Kieran Collins or Rhys Mattherson. The next deal which was Howe, Toump, 6, 1st rounder for pick 3, 7, Bugg and Kennedy, is a little harder to gauge. If it is Howe for Bugg - we have lost as Howe is having a better season. Toump for Kennedy - we won that. 3 for 6 means Oliver over Weiderman (I dont see us taking Ah Chee, maybe Curnow if you want another player in here rather than Weid) and Weiderman over this year's pick 8 which according to Knightmare could be Josh Battle which already I think we've won. So you probably say we've come out of top here as the sum of the parts is better. As for the draft Oliver (big tick), Weideman (jury is still out but has all the traits of a very promising footballer), Mitch King (injured), Hulett (too early, but signs are good). In terms of later picks than those too, Wills and Menengola have done well the past month, but they are VFL players. Markov has looked good, and Sam Collins has done well for Freo. Dont think we missed much here though. The upside of our draftees is still there. Rookie draft - Wagner (tick) and Michie has been good in the VFL and played some AFL games. There was nothing else after him that was really worth drafting, maybe Marbior Chol. The big question is that of the 22 that beat Hawthorn, how many are Taylor's: B: Jetta (2013 - R) Frost (2014) Hunt (2013) Bugg (2015) McDonald (2014) M: Petracca (2014), Vince (2013), Tyson (2013), F: Garlett (2014), VDB (2014), Weideman (2015), I: Brayshaw (2014), Oliver (2015), Stretch (2014), Harmes (2013) That is 15/22. For the record, those who werent playing that day it is a 9 - 8 split (senior list) with 8 being Taylor picked. My final point is that we are the youngest most experienced side and until last weekend, the only one's who had a chance to get into finals. Sides that have lists that are badly managed dont get that close to finals that young.

Lol. He's become a turnover merchant for them. One of my Pie mates was telling me today he'll be in the top three of their Best and Fairest. I told him that was more of an indictment on their season. He's soft and lazy and simply doesn't fit the mould of player we're trying to foster at the MFC. So glad I don't have to sit through his lazy chases anymore, which might I add, he was doing as early as 2013, but people looked past all that in favour of a highlights reel for dark times.

Statistics Lynden Dunn 19 disposals 14 kicks 5 handballs 9 marks 2 tackles 1 hit out 86 dream team points Colin Garland 24 disposals 18 kicks 6 handballs 13 marks 3 tackles 118 dream team points Jack Grimes 1 goal 2 behinds 36 disposals 19 kicks 17 handballs 3 marks 12 tackles 155 dream team points Liam Hulett 2 goals 8 disposals 8 kicks 6 marks 1 tackles 58 dream team points Matt Jones 39 disposals 27 kicks 12 handballs 8 marks 3 tackles 141 dream team points Ben Kennedy 16 disposals 8 kicks 8 handballs 7 marks 7 tackles 89 dream team points Jay Kennedy-Harris 1 goals 22 disposals 13 kicks 9 handballs 6 marks 4 tackles 99 dream team points Cam Pedersen 1 goal 3 behinds 15 disposals 8 kicks 7 handballs 4 marks 1 tackles 12 hit outs 68 dream team points Christian Salem 2 behinds 24 disposals 17 kicks 7 handballs 2 marks 4 tackles 87 dream team points Joel Smith 15 disposals 7 kicks 8 handballs 4 marks 4 tackles 66 dream team points Jake Spencer 8 disposals 1 kick 7 handballs 2 marks 4 tackles 47 hit outs 81 dream team points Dean Terlich 1 behind 8 disposals 5 kicks 3 handballs 5 marks 34 dream team points Jack Trengove 29 disposals 15 kicks 14 handballs 5 marks 9 tackles 2 hit outs 130 dream team points Josh Wagner 1 goal 19 disposals 10 kicks 9 handballs 5 marks 6 tackles 90 dream team points Mitch White 26 disposals 17 kicks 9 handballs 6 marks 2 tackles 90 dream team points

Didn't believe in God, looked like God, for God's sake, for God's sake 2, God was afraid of him and was God

Posturing for their fans. The word is the deal is done.

My implication was that he is no longer needed Mr Old. Kennedy is considerably cheaper and may well fill a need beyond the backline. Howe would either be another expensive Casey player or holding up the development of Hunt this year. Even worse next year. Do you not agree?

Ouch..!

Stuie you are the one struggling mate. You constantly do. I am pretty certain you are the same Stuie that posts garbage all over the Facebook footy pages. First name xxxxxxx. Last name xxxxxx. Been reading your rubbish here and there for years. Pedo has kicked goals.in all games he has played. He holds his marks. He is no slouch. He actually has made our team better than Hogan this year. The stats tell you so. He was great against Geelong last year. Great against the GC this year. You have no idea. We don't have another big bodied forward right now and you wanna cast him to the wind coz he is 30. Remember how well the old youth policy worked when Schwabb enforced it on the FD. Get back on your meds and take a nap

I'm told Roos plans to coach the last game from a banana lounge in a Hawaiian Shirt with a Pina Colada . Apparently he will be writing the messages down on little surfboards and pushing them across a blow up pool to Goody who will have to translate them from Hawaiian back into English. All the runners have been instructed to wear Grass skirts in keeping with the theme and the physios will be using coconut oil instead of Goanna oil. The club insists that Roos is still 100% committed to seeing out the season but I don't buy it.

Are you on bath salts?

You can carjack your way from Caroline Springs to the CBD in under 20 minutes now. Romsey on the other hand is not worth the trip.

sorry to hear you are passed, pf, however you must be mistaken in your geography. there is nothing palatial in romsey nor is there anything remotely resembling a mansion. are you sure you didn't over-inbibe, get lost and end up in caroline springs?

He might get done for travelling too far. I've heard he is good in space but I still think he could get rolled easily in the contest.

Grimes is a Restricted Free Agent - it amazes me how posters continue to bring up trades involving him. He is free to go to any club he wants to and we would need to match the contract to force a trade. This is not going to happen.

Would like to think that Viney and Watts would both be chances for the squad, but Maxy is the only one I think will make the actual team. (He's a certainty)

The same was levelled at Buddy Franklin at his time at Hawthorn - highly individualistic - a couple of premierships. Even at the Swans - Barry Hall was getting himself suspended and even his best years was guilty of giving away needless free kicks - a premiership. You could label both of those "selfish". ( I will also say that drawing the connection between these players and not winning a premiership is a very long bow - Gary Ablett senior played like 10 men in the 1988 grand final and could hardly be faulted for Geelong not winning that day. Tony Lockett played in consistently poor teams and almost took home the big prize with the Swans. And secondly - if you want to draw a connection with brilliant resumes and poor attitudes and not winning premierships then by your logic shouldn't Robbie Flower have about half a dozen premierships to his name ?) I also think you being very harsh on his attitude. He absolutely can do better in the body language stakes but even with his kicking yips did he stop presenting on Sunday ? 13 marks of which 5 were contested would tell you otherwise. He is in his second season of football and there is a lot of room for improvement. I wouldn't be quite as panicked on Hogan yet.

Hawthorn and Port will be smacking their foreheads with vigor. If only they'd thought about trying to nullify Gawn.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

If people can't see that Carlton have the wood on us then they aren't looking, we have beaten them once in the last 9 years. I don't give a stuff if we have different players and coaches and they do as well, they still manage to beat us no matter what. Even back in 2006 when we finished up playing finals and Carlton finished last, they beat us twice and only won one other game for the year.

I think there's a lot more to being captain than what a player is capable of bringing to gameday. There appears to be a significant burden placed on captains to represent their clubs in the media, at sponsor and coterie functions and in setting training standards, etc. As I only get to see what is happening on gameday and in some media interviews, I'm not qualified to know who would be best suited to all those duties. But, some things are apparent. Jack Watts is now one of the most senior players yet isn't in the leadership group. That's either because he doesn't want to be or others don't think that he is suited to it. Jack Viney has some qualities but has on-field deficiencies he needs to work on. (Kicking on his right foot would be a good start). He is also a passionate but not necessarily articulate media performer. That might be because of his age or maybe he just isn't particularly suited to it (I'm trying to find a polite way of saying maybe he's not that bright...although I hope I'm wrong in that regard.) In short I suspect Watts and Viney are not necessarily the best choices for captain. Maybe given our history with Grimes and Trengove, perhaps we should try using an ace rather than four Jacks.

Pedo will be on the list next year, worry not.

i just had a quick look at the bomber forum *shudder* and there was a suggestion of salem and our second rd pick for hibberd. LOL. another suggestion was combining our second rd pick and grimes/trengove to get a pick in the early 20's (for hibberd). what a shite way to send out an ex-captain. i'd rather go without hibberd entirely. hope we stand firm.

These are my favourite type of trade siggestions. Multiple players we don't want equals one good player doesn't it? Maybe we could ask Freo if they'd take Dawes, Grimes, Michie, Terlich and Matt Jones for Fyfe! 5 for 1....surely they win that!

Without cross referencing, I thought I read an article by Jude Bolton on Paul Roos, on the weekend, that said Roos built onfield leadership by not making game day changes, but, allowing the players to stand up and make adjustments in game time. Obviously, this is reviewed and adjusted during the week and allowed to play out on game day. However frustrating this is, I guess this year has been dedicated to leadership development,at the cost of finals experience, to set up Goodwin for next year. I sympathise with the premise of above arguments, but, hope our emerging leaders are the better for it.

I am bewildered by posters that say Pedo is not a part of the future. He has played well in every winning game we have played with him in the side. He takes strong contested marks and is a more reliable shot at goal than most of the forwards in our side. It actually annoys me that we just write him off. Weed wont be a game breaker from Rd 1 next year. We need some back ups ...Cut the bloke some slack.

Hey, Abe - I also strongly believe he will stay. But our strong belief doesn't exclude that he is waivering and that the club is getting frustrated with that. I also do not think he, his family, the club are talking. Your first 3 para's are all fair comment but posters haven't made nor implied any dispersion of Jesse. The only variation to those is that discussions do involve his manager, in fact he would be front and centre in all the contract negotiations with the club on Jesse's behalf. Who knows where Caro gets her info but she does have impeccable sources. She has not said he is going she has simply reported that he is waiverying. There are a lot of people/organisations involved in the contracting process where this info could come from. The reality of footy now is that until he signs the talk will continue...and this thread will continue to grow

If it is going to be a 2nd rounder it should be next years. Considering we paid up front for Milkshake but were unable to open the box for 12 months, the favour should be returned and we get Hibbo now, they get paid their 2nd round pick next year.

Considering Jason Taylor's record since landing with us, I think seeing who he would have chosen would just make us all sad

What I find ridiculous is that the media portray Howe as being a revelation at half back playing for the pies when he played that position with the Demons as well.

The Melbourne Football Club has little to play for this year after succumbing to the Blues last week. However they have everything to play for, for next year. The progress of the team has been obvious and the high point with wins over Hawthorn and Port show that there is a nucleus of performance that can generated into something more meaningful. Will the young and emerging players benefit from another exposure at AFL level, for that is all it will be exposure. Victory will have little reward and loss will have further depletion of spirit. Or does the club concentrate its efforts on Casey and provide the club with a greater chance to enjoy the sweetness of success. A positive finish to what has been another frustrating year would provide some solace to the many weary Demon supporters who will continue to follow the club. Whoever takes the field against Geelong should know exactly what they are playing for, its not the present it is most assuredly the future. In some cases it will be their individual future but it is most certainly the future of this club which is poised on the brink of something. Supporters hope that something is success and will hope to see that manifested with a hard fought win or loss, a blow out after the disappointment of last week is just not acceptable. The club must select the team that will match up and play against a team that is assured of finals participation, they must match them and their clubmates must see them match them. They must see them apply every fibre of their being to match them and they must see them leave the field exhausted. The memory of other matches must be erased and a new standard set, one that will reignite that candle of hope that was snuffed out so easily last week, and burn into a fire of rage for next season.