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You just want to drive off being clearer on a few things after an intra like this. I won't go into detail of the match, although I reckon they still need to move the ball quicker, but will mention individual players. For me Salem was a easily best on ground. Pure class off half back. Beautiful distributor Hogan is a tad rusty with his timing in marking contests, but still finished with 9 marks and 4 goals in 80 minutes of footy (20 minutes each quarter with no time on) The more I see Harmes the more I like him. He's not out of place in the midfield and is a very smart lead when he takes a stint in the forward 50. He's best 22 for me It's a make or break year for Watts, but I liked his game today and really like him as the third tall forward. Missed a couple he'd normally kick Oscar made the odd mistake, but he's coming on really well. Will play plenty of senior footy and has better skills than his Brother (who was horrible today) Gawn is going to have a great year, but like a lot of talls at this time of year, dropped a few marks he'll be taking in 6 weeks Gus does everything well, although wasn't prolific Viney will go to another level in 2016. Looking better than last year I like Josh Wagner. He's a good size, is composed and a lovely left foot kick. He also competes well Billy got a fair bit of it, but made a few uncharacteristic mistakes today I love Tyson. I know he occasionally hangs on to it a bit long, but he's also a very smart and clean footballer. Will keep getting better and looks bigger Jetta was very good Hunt is relishing the switch to a half-back flank and getting more touches. His speed stood out and he generally uses it ok, but can torch the odd one Weideman is a mile off. He's just not strong enough to even get in the right position to compete in marking contests. Needs plenty of time and I don't see many games at all in 2016 vandenberg was busy. I love Vanders, my only query is his kicking, but he generally uses it well I'll finish with number 13. Oliver is a fantastic competitor and has a tonne of footy smarts. He's great in congestion and makes really good decisions quickly with his hands. He's got a magnificent physique and is already looking bigger than 3 months ago (particularly his legs). I thought Oliver was a fair way off the best 22 with the way they've been managing him, and he may miss the first few games, but trust me he won't be out of the team for long. And like Brayshaw, when he gets in he won't be coming out. He is going to be a fantastic midfielder for the MFC. He was quieter when he went to the half-forward flank (manned by Hunt 187cm, who he was noticeably taller than – has grown – at least 188cm now) Three things we need to move up the ladder (including no major injuries): We really need the second tall forward to stand up and kick 20+ goals (whether that be Frost, Pedersen, or Dawes) We need the midfield to take the next step through the likes of Viney, vandenBerg, Tyson, and Brayshaw We need the game-plan to gel, i.e. quicker ball movement, more inside 50's, start attacks closer to our goal, press harder, etc

No doubt money was a big factor in his move. Nobody would deny that. But the circumstances of his move were much different. Ablett had already won a flag and a Brownlow at Geelong. He had already established himself as the best player in the competition. Then GC came calling. He felt that he had achieved plenty for Geelong and the opportunity to be the face of a brand new franchise, by being it's first captain, and make a truckload of cash was too good to turn down. Money was a large part of the move, but not all of it, and his desire to move on from Geelong was very different as well. For Viney, a lifelong Demon supporter, to move on now is 'ridiculous' to me and many other posters. He bleeds for the jumper and wants to bring sustained success to the club he loves. He won't go anywhere.

National women's football league set to expand to eight teams ... and Demonland will have its own section for the womens' game starting soon ,,,

I went along yesterday. Unusually good conditions for Casey Fields. CF is a terrible viewing ground and early in the season picking up players can be difficult. I agree with much of what has been said and I reckon that where you are standing can influence your view as seeing what's happening on the other side of the ground is hard. I agree with most of what's been said ubut where I differ from others I've noted below. I was surprised and quite impressed with Frost. Whilst his attributes were on display last year his ability to do anything with them wasn't. But he was ok to good yesterday which was promising. Watts was good, involved but I was disappointed with his kicking. Missed easy goals and some makable passes. I didn't think he played 3rd tall either, more high half forward but these things aren't all that easy to see. I thought Jake was very competitive against Gawn and the dominance of the "good" team was signifantly helped by Spencer's absence. Jake will never be a dominant player but if he is first ruck for us he will not make it easy for opposition ruckman. He's a good AFL backup ruck. We are not ruined if Gawn doesn't play. After the recent debate about Oliver I was looking out for him and I thought he was terrific and shows more that Brayshaw at the same stage (yes, I know about Brayshaw's injury situation last year). What was very evident yesterday was his ability to find the ball at stoppages and in general play. I thought his lateral movement was great and his vision excellent which led to good disposal by hand. Not so good by foot but he had a lot of mates in that regard yesterday. Salem is a gun. AVB found it heaps, Viney prolific Tommy Mac awful, Kennedy tough and Harmes impressive. But that has been reported by others. Ive been going to intraclub matches for 10 years now and haven't been impressed by the play once. Yesterday was no different. As PD says you go there to look for individual things.

The State of Our List? Overall Picture: - We have 17 players from the Neeld era or prior -Roos has insulated us from the ‘go home’ factor: 78% of the list are from Victoria or other clubs. The only notable risk is Jesse (discussion in another thread). -From an article this week: the Demons believe they have 20 to 23 "good" players, up from "13 decent players" in 2013… Their analysis shows the top-four teams have about 27. List Profile: -We are much taller than ever before: 2 x 200+cm players and 13 x 190 to 199 cm players. -Our average age is 23 (and for those who prefer the Median, it is 22). No one is over 30; 5 are 28+; only 12 in the critical 24 to 27 age group. -Our average experience is 51 games (the Median is 32). Only 9 players over 100 games and 7 players in the 50 to 100 game range. Conclusions: -I would expect any player who still has ‘mental demons’ will not get a game. -Only a handful of players will be a walk up start in the 22 each week but given Roos’ history to date once in the team the spot will be a players to lose. -Quality of our list is catching up to that of top 4 teams. Experience is the big gap...experience not just no of games but also in winning and finals. -No elite players yet but it would be staggering if a few don’t develop from the ‘20- 23’ good players we do have. -A very young, very inexperienced team so we will have inconsistent results, maybe some bad (not crushing) losses but also more surprise upsets. -Team solidarity and enthusiasm seems to be at an all time high so may sneak in an extra win or two. -If we get to finals this year we are really ‘punching above our weight’. -On this climb of Everest we are at Base Camp...all resources ready for the climb up!

Our national sporting shame has hit the international media. This report made it into the Swiss press in German - Basler Zeitung Here's the text auto translated by Google and don't worry if it sounds a bit strange because it fits in with everything else about this saga:-

Had a bit of an argument with a pretty pathetic Dees supporter, who basically these days just rubbishes us. Well I suppose he is not a real supporter. I tried to explain to him that our list has been turned over in the last couple of years, but all he could answer was he had heard that for the last 10 years. Again I tried to explain that our list was crap over the last 10 years and we have done something about it. In summary though, even though he says he is a Dees fan, he is like many in the AFL world. Until we produce, many will think we are just making up the numbers. Go Dees and produce and stick it up the condescending and arrogant, clubs and individuals who make up the AFL.

We are not "implicated" in anything. What an ill-considered assertion.

Ok - hopefully this appears somewhere on this thread. 1. Hogan - It was a toss up for BOG for me between Hogan, Salem, and Viney. He was so dominant. I thought Dunn was outstanding today and Hogan was just too strong, too smart. I really cannot express how lucky we are to have this boy. 3. Salem - The contested marking was outstanding, but the highlight was breaking a number of tackles and weaving his way through traffic. Bold prediction - he will be top 3 B&F this year. The boys want the ball in his hands. 4. Watts - A really good game. Probably in the best dozen. Thought he played the lead up role well and when he was in the Blue team (the better one) he looked all class as the delivery to him was much better and then he was delivering it really well to Hogan et al. He will play round 1 in the forward line. 7. Viney - His tackle on Wagner was amazing. He grabs him by the hips, lifts him above his head and then just holds him and squats. He was prolific and hard at it. Lock him in for the Bluey this year. 10. Brayshaw - He just seemed a class above with Salem and Viney than anyone else in the midfield. Oliver was having his own way and then went on to Brayshaw in the last quarter and Brayshaw just killed him. It really felt like no one was on Brayshaw all day, just had time and space. 11. Gawn - Dominant, and really didnt have any competition. I was impressed at how he took that and really looked to have an impact around the ground. The forward line work was quite good. 12. Tyson - I know the reports had him as good, must have done most of his work in close as I didnt see a lot of him. When I did he was Tyson, strong at the contest but not as polished as others. Maybe as I'm not noticing him means he is in and under each time? 13. Oliver - Cannot believe what I saw. After the first half I had him locked for round 1. Played a different role in the second half where he struggled to impact the game. Tackling machine (maybe 8-10 for the day?) and loved the hard ball. I really noticed in the first half the time he had on his hands. It really felt like people decided not to touch him when he had it in the first quarter. Could be something really special. He is seriously big. At one stage he was taking on a player in close and came off second (due to height) and I thought ah well, Vanders is strong, until who I thought was Vanders turned around and it was Frost. He looked similar size to Frost. He is a seriously big boy. 14. Dunn - Is still the best one-on-one defender on our list. Great all day, just Hogan was better. 15. Stretch - he was on the opposite wing to the fans so we didnt see a lot. When we did we saw pace and a really good boot. I dont know if I have him in the 22 after today but he is close. 16. Kent - the hardness and the speed were great. Although he didn't do much, he was dangerous and will be a good weapon for us this year. 17. Frost - Will be our second forward as he presented, rucked, went for the hard ball. Yes he was dropping some marks and his kicking was a little off at times, but the ingredients are there. He showed enough for me to be happy with him in there as the others develop. 20. Garland - Great roost for a rushed behind. Played a really good linkage game up back. Thought his skill level was up and comfortably beat whoever he was on. 21. Pedersen - Had a good moment in the 4th but wasn't really in the game. He needed to impact this pre-season and I didn't see anything that would make me pick him in our best 25 22. Michie - Some really nice things but on the other side of the oval a lot of the time. Enough to show why we gave him a rookie spot. 25. McDonald of the Tom Variety - Played as a midfielder/wing/half back at times. I cant remember him having a one-on-one in the second half. He was really working on being a bull at the gate and pushing through. Really interesting to see where he plays this year. 26. Weiderman - still has a football sized hole in his chest from a bullet from Dunn. Not strong enough yet but he has the skills (marking, kicking, leading, IQ) to be a serious player in the forward line. I thought he was the 4th best forward today behind Hogan, Watts, Frost. 28. McDonald O - this boy will play. His battles with Weiderman were outstanding. It was great seeing these two go at it. Oscar is really impacting contests and he seems as if he has good knowledge of where the ball is going and can peel off his man. Weiderman and McDonald will be better as they will grow together as serious competitors and players. 29. Hunt - Blow me down and call me Betsy. Where did this come from. Seriously, when did this boy become a player? He was in the top 10 for the day and if today (and previous reports) are anything to go by, he will play round 1. He 'hunts' the ball and is just hard at it for an outside type. I dont even know if he is an outside type. He just saw ball, got ball, run away with ball. 30. ANB - On the wing on Grimes most of the day. Ran all day, disposed of the football ok, tackled well, competed well. He is just a footballer's footballer and if I said to you, he was ANB, you can imagine his game. I really like him and think that we are a better team with him here, but he is just going to be a Brad Sewell, not a Luke Hodge. 31. Grimes - Slow first quarter where he struggled with the pace (ANB wore him like a glove). Second quarter he was probably BOG for the quarter. Second half again some really great things and then some times where you just want him to do something special. I think again like ANB, he does his job and he is good at it. He is a good AFL player and will be in the round 1 team as he is in our best 22. A star, no, but a really honest footballer that we all want to do well. 32. Bugg - In it a fair bit, on the wing as well. We saw what weve been told, scrappy and up for a fight. There were some nice passages from him, but these were more tackles and handballs in close rather than game breaking plays. 33. Spencer - was hurt but mostly hurt by the gap between him and Gawn. Was good in drills but in the game just seemed small. 34. Mitchell King - I really liked his game. He presented well, competed well against Gawn and Frost. Project player and am looking forward to see how he goes in the future. 35. Ben Kennedy - Locked in the dreamteam now. He should have had a beautiful running goal but shanked it. Really loved the way he went about extracting the ball today. Was one of the best in the first half, petered off as the game went on. 36. Garlett - Good forward pressure and dangerous. Lock him in for another 30-40 goals this year. 37. Vanders - this boy is special. He just seems to be in everything and is just so strong. There are so many like Vanders on our list now and we are better for it. There was a great bit of play that went Salem - Brayshaw - Watts - Vanders - Hogan and it felt like 5 first rounders marking and disposing of the ball. I'm very happy with his development. 39. Jetta - I am sorry that I ever doubted that you would line up in Round 1. Enjoy another season of killing small forwards across the league. Tenacious and great rebounding. 42. Wagner - Much better than I thought he would be. Was busy early and was in the play a lot. Can run with the maul and got into good positions. Interesting to see how he goes this year. 43. Harmes - thought was good but wasn't blow away with him. He did what he could do and you can see the talent difference between him and our 'top' rounders. He competes hard and hope he has another good season. 44. Smith - not much to say. Really don't remember him in the game other than Dunn coaching him into position. Good skills early on in the drills, but project player. 45. Matt Jones - Listen, I know that people were saying he was having a great pre-season but I didn't see it in the game. He was in and out of the game at the best of times and doesnt look like he belongs. Thank you for your service, I appreciate it. All the best with your future career.

If you think it's "irrelevant" you have the democratic right to ignore this thread, any articles on the subject and our section on Women's Football when we get it up and running. Also, if you really thought it was "irrelevant" then you wouldn't have wasted your time posting or the time that others spent reading it.

This has been done to death you have got young guys who have sweated blood to get on an AFL list knowing it could all end with injury or delisting they were told everything was above board hands up anybody who has never gone against their principles so not to lose something there is only one 'guilty" person in all this for me Hird

You'll get over it.

In that photo Oliver looks like Blease on peptides. He is huge.

First time post, I didn't want to mis anything so just made some quick notes that may be slighlty out of order; Weideman good hands and nice field kicking to position - already bigger than I thought he was, gawn as others had mentioned is looking super fit, hogan standing five meters from a trainer who's kicking low hard balls at him and his hands are phenomenal doesn't drop one and they are coming in quick and they just stick, first goal long ball to the goal square jesse nearly takes the mark between two spoilers Kennedy stays down and gets the crumb and goal for the blue team, watts 55m out takes a mark in space acts like he's having a shot drills a beautiful low ball to someone in space who's set shot hits the post white team, garlett boundary line poster blue, hunt great kick to gawn 45 m miss to left just behind blue, tom mac spoil behind white, anb second nice delivery from in traffic to someone in space, Kennedy to hogan to harmes good set shot 40 meters out bit of an angle goal blue, anb good tackle in front of us, mongrel kick forward weideman good chest mark 45 out beautiful action another poster white team, oliver two nice strong tackles, gawn dominant early in the rick, watts chasing hard two good tackles, oscar bad turnover in space to the opposition, pedo dropped chest mark, clayton oliver nice turn on traffic long ball in to the forward fifty, Viv michie nice goal ran around one 45 out. Kent nice run and carry to quick for viney, best passage of the day so far, Vanders stron mark instant dish to running grimes who spots up hogan in space in the middle to garlett back to Vanders who kept running courageous diving spoil from Dunn just stopped what would of been a super passage of play. Kent 80m run down that just missed, Vanders again strong, grimes good tackle should been ball umpires pretty laxed, clarry again strong in the contest nearly breaking free when he should of had no chance to do so, even when tackled by two still kept his feet, Weidman nice pick up turn and handball from a bouncing ball, tyson to Vanders 45 out slight angle to the left one behind blue, anb had a bit of it and using it well, grimes had it a lot and also using it well and running hard, Kent good spoil watts another good tackle just misses Kent inside fwd 50 and out of bounds, anb snap in traffic around body spoiled through for a behind white, again good ball movement from blue salem, Vanders and a few others involved in a nice chain from back line that ended with an uncharacteristic dropped mark from tyson 40 m out directly in front. Nev jetta and Dunn good first half, grimes again good handball under pressure keeps running to space inside fifty should of been his shot at goal poor kick to him jusssst out of reach, salem beautiful pick up, run an lace out pace to watts on the lead good mark 45 out on front poster blue, second half what's fwd, goal white team non melbourne player, awesome contest mark salem quick inside ball that opens up the play kick to watts who nudges his opponent out pick up kicks to Vanders on the fifty quick kick to hogan on the boundary 35 out set shot goal. Another white goal from a turnover to a casey player, salem ball use amazing, tyson catches someone holding the ball centre handball to tom mac holding the ball, nev beautiful kick fwd to pedo hands to clayton 50 out just misses crowd thought it was a goal, another nice piece of play, intercept mark salem from jetta kick, salem to Vanders mid field to a hard running jesse to a hard running grimes on the goal line goal blue, clearance viney clean tap to brayshaw who recovers a poor viney handball, to vander behind from 55, Kennedy good spoil runs to goal chase down hunt misses everything, Kent out the back to hogan in the goal square good attempts to spoil by Dunn but mark and goal hogan blue, viney getting his hands on it a bit and using it well, watts the same, salem has been best on ground another good contested mark and beautiful kick, Kent pushing up to the wing, Tom mac good intercept mark handball to garlo 70 bomb to the goal line touched through, good mark inside 50 pedo slight angle pushed to the right behind white team, watts marks 60 out spots up frost on the lead 40 in front bad miss left behind blue, jesse good intercept mark handball to frost check side goal to blue 30 m out, spencer off since first quarter boots off, clayton good acceleration then turn over, anb good clearance, salem again involved twice and sets up a running viney to someone who goes long to jesse good contested mark in the goal square, kicks his 3rd goal blue, salem is on fire and the crowd are loving his work, blue ball movement been really good all day another chain and quick switch from full back to jesse free kick from Dunn push near the boundary 30 out goal for blue, jesses 4th, harmes been spending a bit of time in middle, great tommy mac link up after spoil three touches that leads to out bounds fwd fifty, watts again in space marks and just misses Kent, gawn a couple of nearly marks near goal today in big packs, viney goal from clearance inside 50, gawn nice tap to brayshaw to viney to grimes another nice pass to a diving lead mark. Clayton holds the ball up and releases cleverly, player kicks to the leading weid, good mark on the lead turn kick to dangerous spot stretch gathers and goals, watts again to salem another good kick, good tackle hunt, Wagner turnover, after training. Some running, grimes viney Vanders and tommy mac leading the way, grimes really really impressed me today. Salem was unbelievable and was getting everyone very excited, gawn won the ruck contests handsomely and the only thing that stopped him havig a really dominant day was a missed goal that was kickable and two or three nearly big pack marks where the odds were against him, Kent didn't have a lot of it but was very very good, fast and precise with his kicking, was chasing hard and tackling well too, Vanders was excellent he was really running hard to space and getting in good positions and linking up his running seems to have gone to another level, Neville jetta was excellent, garlo and Dunn too, tommy mac got in to it the new the game went and viney had a big second half. Tyson was in it a lot, anb also had his share of it today and was good, oscar mac didn't have a big influence and was involve in a bad turnover under little o no pressure, michie kicked a really nice goal from just inside 50 after running around a player, watts was excellent today and was definitely in the best few out there today. Kennedy did a few good things he intercepted a ball and went charging in to the open fifty and hunt swallowed up the ground enough to pressure him as make him miss everything from an angle, hunt really impressed me today too, I hadn't seen much of him and I can really see why others have been talking up his ability he's got a really nice kick and his speed is awesome; I can see him playing more games than not this year,

Not even the most pessimistic supporter could argue that we're not heading in the right direction after Neeld. 7 wins and a percentage of 77 is a lot better than 2 wins and 54%. People who continue to have this attitude in the face of undeniable improvement should stop pretending to be Melbourne fans at all.

What was done to them?? My best mate coaches a certain age group/club in the TAC, he has worked with a number of current AFL players when they were juniors. They are fully aware at a young age as to what is acceptable. First year AFL players attend courses on gambling/drugs/social behaviour. Essendon cheated and got caught, the players were onboard and as we already know some were strong enough to say no.

Surprised at the concern re TMac. He didn't star but certainly held his own and showed his class on occasions - was also very vocal with instructions. Only knock would be that he got caught with the ball a couple of times but he was noticeably taking players on (perhaps under instruction). He also made several centimeter perfect passes over 30-40 meters. At one stage Jade Rawlings ran onto the ground to congratulate him on getting through traffic and kicking a great pass that resulted in a shot at goal. Had to wait to be heard as Tom was shouting instructions to teammates re positioning. FWIW thought Grimes played well and seemed to be enjoying the freedom of the wing.

My wife and I have been paleo for 9 months and it has made a big difference. I have lost 10 kgs and feel like I have a lot more energy. The downside of paleo is that it takes a lot of prep time. Cutting sugar out of your diet means you need to prepare most meals from scatch. We start the day with a green smoothie. Usually have a salad & protein for lunch and we have a lot of slow cooked meals with roast veggies for dinner. The usual stables are still good in a paleo version ie spag bowl with zucchini noddles. Lasagna using eggplant & mushrooms with cauliflower cheese.

Calm your farm Redleg. He hasn't made it... yet.

Don't even give this rubbish oxygen.

Really great summaries so I cannot add much. The game was very, very congested with lots of stoppages and contested ball. It was hard work in close and not a lot of time or space for 'pretty' skills. I guess that is the way Roos/Goodwin are wanting the team to play. Recruiting over the last couple of years suggests that also. Just as an aside the AFL Prospectus said that sheer numbers of possessions at junior levels mean little - its contested disposals that count. They cited Toumpass, Lucas and Morton as examples of players with high possessions but low contested possession count. Lesson learnt - pick up players like Viney, Brayshaw, Petracca and Oliver with early picks - so its been learnt. No one could have stopped the goals Hogan kicked. Harmes and Oliver looked good. Salem showed class and great disposal under pressure. O Mc looks like he will be good down the track. Weed also given time should be good. For perspective at this stage of Weeds career Hogan had already won a Casey B & F and goal kicking - so nocomparisons - take it easy on the Weed. He did take a pressure mark in the last Q and looks like he will be ok - just needs time.. If we can have some really good delivery forward Watts will provide plenty of headaches for the opposition as our 3rd tall. Plenty of hope in the offering. Wait and see how we go with the NAB Cup. We are definitely building a midfield that should take us places. Now lets get Hogan signed.

There has been a lot of talk about who was there yesterday and who played well but who didn't make it to the game? Intraclub practice matches such as the one held by Melbourne yesterday at Casey Fields are an vital ingredient of the football season. They provide an essential warm up for the players in transition from the preseason moving into the NAB Challenge practice matches on the way to the opening of the premiership season which is little more than a month away. The game gave those in attendance the opportunity to watch most of the club's recruits in action for the first time and to see who had improved over summer, who was fit and raring to go and of course, our hearts were in our mouths lest we lose any players through injury. On that score, the only apparent casualty, according to coach Paul Roos was ruckman Jake Spencer who suffered a "niggle". We also learned of the importance of certain players to the club. With Spencer off the ground, it magnified the fact that the Demons are heavily reliant upon Max Gawn in the ruck, the other potential tall followers being young and inexperienced (and in Max King's case also presently injured) or part time ruckmen. The Intraclub game also provided a showcase for the club's young, inexperienced midfield talent in the absence of its veterans in the skipper Nathan Jones and last year's Bluey winner Bernie Vince. While these games are essential, they aren't really great indicators of what's to come because, after all, they're very much like dancing with your sister. And, as we've seen over the last couple of evenings, the NAB Challenge matches are a long way short of the real thing. We've read the reports on the game both here and in the media and they do throw some light on the season ahead but one thing is for certain. There is a group of players who comprise about a quarter of the club's list who were unavailable either through injury or because they were rested (and in Jake Melksham's case because of suspension for the year) and, judging by some of the names of those missing, it will be an essential to get as many of these players up and running as possible if we are going to see major improvement in 2016. They are - 2. Nathan Jones 5. Christian Petracca 6. Chris Dawes 8. Heritier Lumumba 9. Jack Trengove 18. Jake Melksham 19. Ben Newton 23. Bernie Vince 24. Jay Kennedy-Harris 27. Liam Hulett 41. Mitchell White 46. Dean Terlich 47. Max King We've learned over time, that it's so important to have a healthy list. You can't always avoid injuries but, as we've seen with North Melbourne who made consecutive preliminary finals in 2014-5 with near full lists through most of the season and particularly at finals time, when the time comes, it helps to have a settled group of players fit and ready for battle.

The same media who said we were idiots for trading away "future Brownlow medalist" Josh Kelly for Salem and Tyson?

[re: Margaret Wenham] This is totally unfair. No way is she that ugly.

I reckon there's some truth to this. There's so many dismissive, arrogant and blasé comments - on Facebook posts from Fox Footy, AFL and the like - when Melbourne is mentioned in positive news stories (which they mostly are these days). "They're still a basket case", "They'll always be a rabble", "The most fight you'll see from Melbourne all year" (in relation to TMac and Viney stoush) and so on. Fans of clubs like Essendon, Collingwood, Richmond still refuse to believe that we could be any good this year. The media are similar. So many journos have actually tipped us to finish lower this year than last (this makes absolutely no sense but whatever they're the experts). It doesn't bother me, because we know better. Maybe they have a right to be like that given how crap we've been in recent years. But I think many must know things have changed and I think it's fear and wishful thinking as much as anything. It's going to make it so much sweeter when we prove them wrong.

Sigh!!!!!!!?

Computer says NO

Please no! It. Becomes click bait which journos use to inflate their importance.

Its quite scary that an 18 year old is already bigger then a 5th year season AFL midfielder.. Could see him filling out into a Josh Kennedy type body when he gets more Pre Seasons into him.

I think you need to put yourself to bed and have a good rest...

That is Wagner up in the air.

I’ll try not to repeat what has already been mentioned, reports from tappysquads, deeznutz (my eyes thank you for the edit binman!), Deespicable, Dee-licious, et al have summed it up really well. A few other observations: I actually love Christian Salem, for someone who gets as much footy as he does, and under pressure, his disposal is sublime. And he’s an excellent mark for his size. I’ve read the thread on bigfooty as well, and Grimes was certainly not as bad as what has been suggested. He did exactly what Roos said and moved between wing and half-forward, and on today’s effort he was better than Stretch, ANB, M. Jones and even Kent (who did a couple of good things but was reasonably quiet). He wore no. 27 after halftime and was the one who kicked a goal by getting on the end of some good ball movement (as far as I could tell Hulett didn’t play). Tyson had a dog of a first half. Sometimes he tries to look for the second or third option when he just doesn’t have the time. To his credit he kept at it and was much better after half-time. I’m not sure how he is regarded within the inner sanctum of the club, but based on what happens on-field, VDB is my sneaky for the leadership group. He is very vocal around the ground, particularly at stoppages, and you can tell that he has played a lot more ‘senior’ footy than many of his younger teammates. In my opinion, his willingness to work both ways and actually make a physical impact when the ball is in his vicinity is why he will be one of the first picked every week. Jack Watts was ok as the link man/third tall forward. His disposal moving the ball forward was impressive as usual. He took one mark today (granted it was on the opposite wing to where I was standing so I didn’t have the best view) that was exactly how I’m trying to teach my son not to mark the ball. It was like one of those really casual chest marks where you catch it on your hands away from your body- the sort that you don’t see in a game situation because if you drop it you look like a dill. As I said, I was a long way away from it so maybe I’m overstating how poor it looked. Garland was good as the most experienced backman on the a-team. He was also very vocal working to position blokes like Hunt and Oliver when setting up the zone and at stoppages. He did get caught out on a couple of ‘fast breaks’, but his disposal was good and he was able to make some effective spoils to stop the other team moving the ball forward. Although Gawn did win the majority of the hit-outs, not too many were to his teammates’ direct advantage- this may have been because N. Jones and Bernie were missing. Despite what happened last year against St Kilda, he still loves that tap over his head, and at one point it was interesting to hear VDB and Max having a decent ‘discussion’ about positioning. The best bit of ruckwork today was actually a centre tap from Frost to Viney that I think led to a goal. That being said, Pedersen seemed to generally have the better of Frost in the ruck when they were opposed to each other. There was not much shirking going on- there were quite a few loud thwacks where players met head-on, as Joel Smith can attest. All in all, it was a good hit-out and it is obvious to see that the skill level and decision making of the players has developed and is still improving. To go with the work that has been done on contested ball and defensive positioning over the last two years, I am tentatively optimistic about the season.

I was lucky enough to have the day off and get down to Casey this morning.A few thoughts on what I saw: Hogan was slow in the first quarter,he was dominated by Dunn in the first half.In the second quarter Hogan started getting frustrated and his curses could easily be heard from the sidelines.In the second half Hogan got out of first gear and and played great kicking a couple of goals each quarter Viney;best on ground The new guys;a lot to look forward to in the future Watts played okay but still needs to back himself with his set shots vanders is looking like a souped up version of his 2015 self The best I've ever seen Jetta play Dunn had an intimidating presence commanding his defenders into position,telling them to man up and giving them feedback Despite the positives there were still the usual skill errors and bad decisions.We are better than last year but there is still work to do.After today I still have a question mark about this years season but if we are competitive and consistent,then we should continue to climb the ladder.

nice to kick off season with a win does that make it two in a row?

Never heard that one.

Not only ... he'd won two premierships and a Brownlow at Geelong.

You are correct in a sense, as it has two meanings in law. To be found guilty of an offence, is to be convicted of that offence. However you can be convicted of an offence, without the recording of a penalty known as a conviction. For example, you are convicted of the offence (found guilty), but the penalty recorded, is a fine without conviction, or a bond to be of good behaviour, or a diversion, etc.

Good report. This made me smile however, that a 1cm difference in height between players, is noticeable on the field. Did you allow for the thicker hair?

Grimes was ok, haters gonna hate, Anyone who wears Hassa Mann's number always gets a free pass from me. Having said that, this was the first time I have seen Hunt live. I was pleasantly surprised, I expect that he will get a few NAB games, and we will see how he goes from there. Viney, vandenBerg and Tyson were a cut above. Tyson's disposal is a bit of a worry though. Salem just oozes class. Harmes and Kent swapped teams in the second half. I would not be surprised to find it was because the coaching staff wanted Hogan to do something other than kicking it to Harmes evey time he got it. Gawn was very good. Spencer was ok up to the time he went off. Dunny will be very glad that he doesn't have to play on Hogan too often. I didn't know who #35 was; I have since found out it was Kennedy - good hit out. It was all a bit scrappy, but early days.

This is genuinely the dumbest rumour I have ever heard.

Has he seen Viney play?

This is what Jack said in his interview today. Viney said he was hellbent on helping Melbourne transform into “a successful footy team” long term. Doesn't sound like his leaving to me?

Purple isn't even trying to be credible any more

Agreed. He's a Demon, through and through.

When Jesse was interviewed on MMM late last year he even made a point of saying how much Jack "loves the club". Viney is the last one I'm worried about.

Can we just turn this into a thread where we make Barrett memes?

I can't vouch for this but it could be a secret ploy by the tech heads at Demonland to put opposition club scouts off the scent.

I don't think Kennedy Harris played either. I went along, the first game of footy I've been to since the Swans Demons Final in '87. There were too many turnovers for my liking. The skill levels improved after half time. I saw Petracca after the game: he is a beast of a lad. Hope he can make it, we need some beastliness in the side. I was very impressed with Hunt, Jetta, Vandenberg, Kent, Salem, Gartlett, Dunn and Hogan after half Time. Tommy Mac got caught way too often, Gawn didn't hold one mark and I liked Grimes's game. Viney is an absolute gun. I also liked the vibe of the players. They're committed to each other. So good signs, a fair way to go but the addition of Heritier, Dawes, N Jones, Petracca, Trengrove and Vince they should make us more competitive this year.

Made the 45minute trip down to Casey although was five minutes late because I was trying to figure out if exit 24 or 25 was Clyde Rd - what is wrong with having the road name as well as the No. Ditto it would have been nice to have the names of the Casey boys on their backs today. Name and number is the go. Contest was a bit like Carlton v Hawthorn last night. Apart from Dunn, Kent and Watts playing for the magoos - it was almost our first team versus our second team, so it just took a little bit of time for the extra class to bear fruit (a la Hawthorn). In fact you could even say that once Watts and Kent moved to the seniors forward line at half time, the seniors got on top. Up until then the greasy early conditions meant that there were plenty of skill errors. The two shining beacons in the first half were Dunny - who was absolutely brilliant caralling Hoges and at the same time instructing his young defence. His kicking was precise etc, etc. the fact that he played all game in the twos was clearly to make sure that Jesse was fair dinkum and anyone suggesting he is on the outer is a nuffer. The other clear talent was Salem, who, after quarter-time just dominated everything and his precise kicking was only matched by Watts (after half time) and T-Mac (yes, I kid you not). Harmes scored the first goal that I saw and teams up well with his buddy Hogan, but it was a bit of a point-fest until a brilliant evasive goal by Michie off a Kent outlay. Eventually once Spencer went off at half time and any sense of ruck equilibrium ended, the weight of ball told as Gawn was able to just palm it down to Viney, Tyson or VB. By then Bugg had been sent back up to the seniors, which also meant that poor old Neal-Bullen and Stretch were left to try and dismantle the seniors. As a result Hoges got on the end of a few after half time - I had him down for four goals and Casey's No.8 did likewise on a couple of counters by the magoos. Observations on players: The surprise (to some) non-players today were the skipper, Mitch White (I never read what kept him out last week from training but clearly it's not minor - back-related from lifting too big a weight is my guess), Terlich (ankle didn't come up) and Hulett. Trenners, Vince, Dawes, Harry O did not play as expected. Clearly Roosy/Goody is unclear yet on which are the better forward link men to go with Hoges, Frost and Garlett. Harmes and Kennedy were lively in the first half but ultimately just one goal doesn't read well. I'm sure both will be in the 26-man squad to play Port though, but I though Watts and Kent clearly won on points when they got their chance in the second half. You have to assume that both Stretch and Neal-B will have to work their way into this team and are down the queue. Hunt was given a really good go as the running defender in the seniors and you could tell he's in vogue with coaches at the moment as he chased hard Ben Kennedy and forced him to miss when a goal on the run was begging. Hunt's kicking still lack the quality of Salem, or even Jetta, but I suspect he'll get a really good go in the pre-season comp and you have to think he could be a Rd 1 prospect. The other blondie Wagner is a bit better in the air and could be a chance down the track if Harry O can't get his ankle right. For once when I've attended Oliver was playing and his attack on the ball is superb (No Jimmy T here) and part of the reason why the magoos were competitive, but he still has a bit of work to do on his disposal. He might get a game off the bench in the pre-season comp, but barring injury to our main group, won't be playing AFL Rd 1 - IMO. The Weed was quiet today which is not unexpected - he was playing in the magoos - as delivery was never going to be precise to him. Wanted a cheap kick on the wing a couple of times, so still very much a project player with learning to do. Matt Jones got his chance ahead of Stretch today before being swapped back to twos in second half and was lively at times, but didn't do enough. Bugg probably didn't get many disposals either but it seemed like every time there was a congestion and a tackle - he was involved. Will play v Port and probably Rd 1. Grimes played wing early and then went forward so you can forget him being used in the Crossy type role. His smarts saw him involved quite a bit but I suspect Roosy wants him as back-up, as clearly VB and Brayshaw are ahead of him as the high half-forwards. O-Mac got the gig as full-back in the seniors (because Dunny was required on Hoges) and his kicking is still a little suss - he has however improved massively from last year. Col was more attacking this week, even almost kicked a supergoal from 70m out. Lock him in for Port and most likely Rd 1. Dom T turned it over at times , but on other occasions was exceptional. He just reminds me so much of Hodgey. He has an amazing ability to win the ball from the scrums, it's just whether he can make the right choice to release. The same could be said of VB. He likes to go inboard and his kicking is just not always flat and hard enough - the case in point was when he sent a hospital pass to Salem, who was crushed but got up to set up a Hoges goal. The only other comment is that I don't quite get what is going on with T_Macs shoulder. Sporting the No.5, he at times looked like a young Schwarter charging like a bull out of defence and his kicking was ultra impressive. But then he gets pinged, as he did by Harmesy in the second-half, and calls for the play to stop like a prima donna. I'm assuming he's got an Ablett-style stinger that is causing him a few issues, but only of a minor nature.

Many thanks Deeznutz for a comprehensive first post. I have taken the liberty of editing my quote of your post it so it is a bit easier to read