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Training today No shows Trengove, Petracca and Fitzy who is crook Viney got a belt in his head/stomach/gonads during match sim and left early Jack Watts confirmed he will play NAB but not this week, same with Jayden Hunt Spoke to Dean Kent, highly amused at the rumours, said he thought he was signed to MFC for 2016 At end of session Goodwin ran some one on one drills with Lumumba against Newton and Brayshaw against Jones, skinny Brayshaw more than held his own, apart from when Jones pushed him slighly in the back and he dived full length forward, much to everybody's amusement Some of the match sim was excellent today, players seemed happy with it, Tommy Mc was going really well, except for one kick from backline straight to Crossy front and centre 45 out, of course he was on the other side One nice bit, White, now fully fit, testing out the cannon of a left leg, took a shot from the edge of the square and put it through the centre of the goal post height Pig trained really well but finished early with Terlich and went and ran laps after he had tickled the ribs of Billy Stretch with one fearsome tackle in the match sim Pics on Twitter Demonpk soon

I took some notes today: I think Newton will be our find of 2015, he looks a very good well rounded player and his training and attitude are very solid. Chris Dawes to me looks to be moving a lot better, i think he will play up the ground a fair bit this season and he, Watts, Hogan and resting ruckman should pose headaches. Toumpas to me is back to the level where i saw him in the SANFL, looks to be moving really well. great to see alot of guys lowering their eyes and delivering into the forward 50 now, not too many blokes just bombing away which is great, plenty of targets hit in match sim. Brendan Mcartney again doing a great job, this week telling Watts to use his body more, he is a big boy and shouldn't be getting pushed off the line by many blokes, needs to impose himself, got stuck into Jeff for being a bit lazy with his forward pressure at one point, this picked up right away after that. The overall spread of the team from stoppages is noticeably better imo, i think our ball movement has improved a lot

The thing i became really excited about today was the forward line we have Watts Dawes Kent Garlett Hogan Gawn all capable of kicking multiple goals and the delivery i think will be much better in 2015

Mate. Let's keep expectations realistic. We should be aiming for 6-8 coin toss victories this season.

Wandered passed at about 10 for an hour. Focus today was all about attacking spread from a stoppage and moving the ball quickly forward. Which made me very happy! The switch kicking across half back (not under much pressure) was very good. The last kick in to the forward line needed a bit more improvement but not terrible. And it wasn't really a full drill so some quick kicks in were spoiled but hopefully come match day they are cleaned up by crumbers. I'd rather the ball in quickly and forwards given a chance than too much stuffing around. Watts trained strongly for probably the first time I've seen this summer. Bit of a reminder he's got pace and skill and not to discount him. Keen to see him in NAB 2 or 3 now. Brayshaw probably had his best session as well. Very clean by foot and kept getting to the right areas. Bail was solid. JKH impressed me with his run, but did probably bight of a bit more than he could chew running in to trouble a bit. Roos and co encouraging players to run when in open space though. Toumpy had some impressive patches, nice to see him running with the ball, that's the key to his game being successful. Dom Tyson found plenty of it as usual in any drill that involves spreading. At one stage he didn't have the perfect option from a forward so just loaded up a left foot bomb from 50+ which impressed the crowd. Sam Frost trained a lot with the forwards. Might have been just to get the numbers for the drills, at least I hope so. Not that I don't rate him forward, just we need key defensive depth. More towards the start of the session it looked a fair bit like players who were very keen to get on a plane and get ready for a game. But they switched on as it went. White has a suckling (or other strange) style kicking action but wow he kicks it low and firm. Waddles a bit. A little fumbly still as well. But if we can make an adequate defender out of him and he can find the footy in games then he can really use it. I'm glad TDI got the news on Viney, was worried it might be a quad or groin. A whack in the nuts should be ok!

I thought it was blue & black?

I'll be heading down on Thursday to watch us absolutely pants this bunch of floggers. I hold the Fremantle footy club in as much contempt as the Pies. I reckon we'll go well and shock the football public with a dominant 10 goal win. But realistically, I'd be happy if we can show some attacking footy, clean disposal and real pressure tackling. More of last years defensively minded rubbish will be a major disappointment. The team are also having a short 1 hour training run at Fremantle oval on Wednesday which I'll sneak down to as its only 20 minutes from the office. It there's anything worth reporting I'll jot some notes for my fellow desperadoes.

Fitzy is crook Salem still has a pressure bandage on his calf although he said it is ok, Viney took a belt in he head/stomach/balls at training, Tommy Mc bit stiff in the back, team may sort itself out Riley and Terlich did ok in the drills but finished early and ran laps, Pig got Billy Stretch a couple of times and tickled is ribs, will put more in the training thread

I like the idea the idea of the coach being on the bench during games as he can deliver instant feedback and get interaction with the player coming off the ground - the downside being you obviously get a better picture from up in the box. However with McCartney onboard I think we can have the best of both worlds. Roos up in the box and McCartney down on the bench

Sounding more and more like Watts has become a McCartney project. Everybody in football has an opinion of Watts and I doubt he is any different. Here's hoping the McCartney blowtorch in combination with the Roos touch can get the best out of Jack!

My reaction when the Hulk throws his first opponent to the ground in a one on one contest....

I believe he has some sort of foot injury.

Andy you do a great job with the site and you've got every right to put up who you want. Well done and thanks.

No chance. ASADA's evidence was initially examined in detail by their new head, a former senior inspector of the AFP. He gave it a big tick. Then the new Abbott Government, in an atmosphere where they said in opposition they would try to bring the case to a quick close (read "close it down") appointed a Federal Judge to examine the evidence, and he strongly endorsed ASADA's evidence and encouraged that it be brought to Trial. Both these gentlemen are strongly credentialed and I venture to suggest they would not put their reputations on the line unless ASADA has a very strong case. I know from my contacts that WADA thinks this is one of the strongest cases they have seem, particularly for a major team sport. Then there is CAS which operates under European Law which in this case favors a WADA appeal should it come to that.. No, Essendon are as cooked as Tony Abbott. For all the fear mongers on here, justice will be served, and if the AFL tribunal squibs the sentence then WADA will ensure ensure through CAS that the guilty parties are adequately punished.

He was going to be named but the Richmond doctor said no.

Thanks for clarifying, Saty.

This is why I love Paul Roos ! The 18-year-old had even floated the idea of getting back before the season ended, but the experienced Roos quickly knocked that exuberant idea on the head. "The first thing he (Petracca) said to me [was] 'oh the doc said I can play in four or five months', and I said 'well the coach said you can't'."

bit stiff leaving trenners out!

You're not listening. ASADA have enough proof, circumstantial or otherwise, as well as a strong paper trail and interviews that we have not heard detail of, that has convinced some strong legal minds they have a good case. The tribunal is assessing it and if they agree then the players have to refute that. If they are relying on Dank to rescue them they are cooked. If they are relying on EFC or Hird it would have been in the media by now. They are cooked. If you think it won't get past the AFL tribunal stage and the players won't have a case to answer I believe this has a negligible probability.

That you like to blow your own trumpet? ;-)

I don't think I'm alone in saying I want us to be winning all nab challenge games. The significance of this cant be stressed enough if we're wanting to start the season with a bang. It'd bring more supporters to round 1, boost membership and the players would be riding high on confidence which we all know has a monumental effect on the way an individual plays. For the MFC in its current state, NAB challenge wins are exactly what it needs.

I was thinking of going but not sure how it will go at freo ovel? Its not exactly the best place for parking and not many seats either.The last thing I can handle is getting beat by Freo in Freo, it was bad enough when I went to the WC game last season and a bloke told me to take my MFC guernsey off because we where getting smashed. I told the cnt to [censored] off!! If I want to cheer at the only six goals we kicked at the top of my lungs I will ya Prix!!

In the first 15 seconds

Champion data had white ranked in the 30's for best 18yo last year. Kicking is his strength but he's also quite good at intercept possessions

Just to clarify. You mean suspend Essendon or the posters?

I really like the sound of what Mcartney is doing. Not allowing our players to drop from the high standards we are trying to set.

The AFL whilst not seeming to have much stomach for all of this which lends to the arguments it might squib; probably has more to lose if it doesn't at least give some meaning to the event. If it ( AFL ) wants to remain as some player upon the landscape it much surely be emboldened sufficiently to find the 'result " of least flux lest it been seen as having been cuckolded in its own home. Essendon will go down irregardless, only a matter of by whos sword. The AFL has a very big decision to make. It has to be seen as the master of its own game The AFL is in the dock just as surely as the Bombers are for mine.

Not named: Watts, Trengove, Brayshaw, Vince, Petracca, Riley, O-Mac, Hunt, ANB, Howe, White, Harmes, Terlich, King, Fitzpatrick

You'd have to think there will be many changes to procedures and verifications and in course reportings as a result of this business. I'm not just talking about Australia, let alone footy in this regards. This will be the 'instance' referred to often in times to come as the "Essendon Determination" We tend to think upon this as a very local and domestic affair but I have no doubt it is being watched( scrutinised ) intensely from afar and wide.. ASADA wont have come into this with cup half full . It has pared away the extraneous and only proceeded with what it is supremely confident about. That confidence to this humble observer would have be born from the evaluation of those learned folk who cast their none too shabby knowledge of such things across this case. For me , in a fashion , it had already been observed to reach the level of 'comfortable satisfaction' by those instructing and testing the validity of WADA/ASADAS strength.

Legal processes take time. Even slam dunk ones. You are right that none of us really know what is contained in the evidence presented. But the fact the burden of proof is much lower than criminal standard makes it more, not less, likely the charges will stick. Ess have leaked like a sieve through this pricess with a complicit and fawning media. ASADA have let very little out. If Ess had any evidence they would have leaked it out. Plain and simple. Guys like Crameri and Monfries would have said 'here it is now leave us alone'. But they haven't. Dank would have said here is the proof now go away. He hasn't. He has become a pariah in the process and would certainly have released evidence to clear himself et all if he had it. He doesn't. EFCs own investigation was damning saying they didnt know what the players took. In the absence of that evidence and the incriminating paper trail of drug purchases, history from Cronulla, Gold Coast etc means any defence based on disproving the accusations are frankly negligible. Comfortable satisfaction has a nice ring to it. It's a relatively low bar. I'd rather be on my side of the fence than yours.

That you are not as good at tossing as you should be?

according to WYL, anything less than 22 successful coin tosses is considered a fail

Just arriving in Sydney town and catching up with the latest news on this incredible saga. "All of these substances have some sort of approval somewhere in the world, for use, both therapeutically and in a general medicial sense." I'm sure it's been discussed but ... does Dank have a propensity to throw Essendon under a bus every time he opens his mouth or what? After that, you know why the Bombers didn't appear to make much of an effort to get him on the witness stand and why they'll be hoping that the AFL Tribunal members don't listen to Triple R or, like a growing number of Melburnians, don't read the Age. If they hadn't made up their minds on a guilty verdict already, this would have been the absolute sealer.

A furphy. In the expression "circumstantial evidence", you need to be concentrating on the latter, not the former. Circumstantial evidence is still evidence, and every bit as valid as what you refer to as "hard proof". If we required hard proof in every court case, no murderer would ever be found guilty. BTW, they won't get off, so you'll be able to continue posting. If ASADA thought they might get off, they wouldn't have even brought the case.

Can yo pick me up at the G on the way?

Well we can be certain there is no proof exonerating the players because if there is then it would have been bought forward by now. We would have seen this play out in the courts like any regular prosecution vs defendant case. Instead we have an organisation arguing the legality of an investigation. This crap would have been over a long time ago. What are they waiting for to show this evidence? Their reputation competition standing to hit rock bottom? It just makes no sence

It's a demoncracy

I don't think there is any rush to promote the rookies......The main season is still 5 weeks away you can do it at any time through the season......When they are up to playing senior footy.

Sorry, but I disagree entirely with this. By all reports, Hogan has had a relatively solid pre-season, has been doing all that is required of him and has not been experiencing any issues with his back. The MFC would know that they have the veritable snow flake's chance in hell of making finals, so they may as well go as hard as possible in the early part of the season in an effort to win a few games (or at least run a few good teams very close) and to boost memberships and they also know that the best way to do that is to hit the ground running and with some confidence/self-belief. . Injuries can happen at any time as we have already seen. These guys are professional AFL players who essentially live to play the game and to win regardless of the game's significance, so why hold them back?

Bloody stoked to be in Freo for this game, pushed my flight back a week to be there, after the cricket on Wednesday too! First game in six years, be the only one this year also. Can't wait to see Hogan, Lamumba and all the boys get stuck in. Tough lot in front of the purple boards though. Go Dees!

I don't have all the evidence but I'm comfortably satisfied, hell, I'll even go as far as saying I'm enthusiastically satisfied, and I'm very comfortable with that.

I have a feeling you might be in for a bit of a miserable day if you go with this attitude

Top 8 Certainties Hawks - they are going to go close again but they have been blessed with a good run of non-season ending injuries to their absolute stars and game changers over 3 years Port - Ryder final piece in the jigsaw they are probably the most powerful side in the AFL when it comes to breaking quickly and with run to beat the zone, which is why they match up so well on the Hawks Swans - still a hard nosed gun side, time for some changes in the next year or two with a few KPD's but Buddy, midfield rotations, SCG and desire after 2014 has them right up there again Freo - they are a machine yes Pav, Sandi, Mcpharlin & Johnson are all getting on but this side just gets the job done, will be top 8 just not sure if they will make the Top 4 Top 8 contenders and this is done without looking at or taking into account the draw Cats - been expecting them to fall for a while Kardinia is still a massive bonus for wins in the bag and Hawkins/Clarke will cause headaches IMO can't win it but with a good run could cause some headaches in September or sides with Top 4 aspirations Adelaide - been poor for the last two years but still a lot of midfield depth, Brad Crouch is an absolute gun and IMO would be a target over Dangerfield given age and pricetag, a lot depends on big Tex firing and Talia/Jacobs staying fit if all goes well join Cats, Tigers, Freo and North in a shake up for top 4 Richmond - whilst they had a fairly easy run home lats season they still showed the importance of Rance, Deledio and Maric staying fit they are hard to pick as a slider or climber but have the potential to put a good run together and give the 4 a shake North - injuries to key players in the pre-season is a concern as is their defensive weaknesses, like the Tigers they are hard to judge but also potentially top 4 contender if all goes well Gold Coast - showed a lot of improvement last season and another preseason into an already talented midfield not to mention a few good additions to the squad going to be there when the whips are cracking like last season and less reliant on Ablett, but he is still going to have a big say in their fortunes for the year Pies - any side who possesses Pendlebury, Swan and Sidebottom running through the middle is going to have some wins and who knows what some of the high draft picks over the last few years produce, but the Pies have a lot of if's -Reid and Brown standing up as KPD'S for the year, White or another giving Cloke a chop out and Grundy rediscovering 2013 form. Greenwood is a good addition IMO not top 4 contenders and need a dream run to make the 8 but it's a possibility Lions - they have the midfield and the ruck stocks they are a very long shot need to find key big men at both ends to have any chance The rest Bombers - don't care what they are saying in the media there has got to be some disharmony with their list and we still have no idea what the outcome of ASADA will be Meth Coast - they have a dream draw but Mckenzie is a massive loss best defender of 2014 and robbed of a AA birth by Rance putting 10 decent games together, will win games at home and continue to be flat track bullies, but Glass and Mckenzie out of their defence is huge sliders for mine Carlton - don't see the massive slide because they are coming in better fitness wise then last season, their coach will make sure they tough out some wins, can't make the 8 though IMO Doggies - Macrae and Bontempelli are going to be very good players for a long time, Stringer is also going to be a good player, Roughead good potential but still a fair way off, Boyd a big unknown Libba, Griffen and Cooney gone from the midfield, Boyd a year older, long season ahead for mine Saints - could see improvement in their young players but still to reliant on their veterans like the Dogs see a long season ahead Giants - hard to pick for a few reasons, fit Mummy makes a huge difference not sure where he is at, Cameron can he get back to what he showed 2013, they have an abundance of absolute young guns through the middle but where are they at happy to stay and build a side or craving to head back to Victoria. Could stay where they are or could fall back. which leaves us I think we will see improvement, there were good signs last year but we can't sit on our laurels because very few teams fall backwards and you need to continually improve or it will be 2011 all over again. 8 wins is my minimal expectation with a good run with injury, then again if Hoges plays to his potential and some 2nd tier players how great improvement you could see us with a mathmatical chance of making the 8 for a period of time. We know from experience there will definitely be an unexpected bolter and slider, Doggies and Meth Coast injuries to vital cogs has already shown how much of an impact luck can have. Then there is the unknown like last seasons off field issues between Sando and the Crows which could occur at another club. I have no idea but can't wait for Round 1 and teh season ahead

I think quietly the AFL is out of its depth. They are severely compromised and realising they arent in control of eventualities adopting the stay low say nothing position. The AFL is a trifle scared of some other authority reigning over its field of play. The little goldfish bowl has been usurped by a larger pond.

After we lose wait for the wrist slashing on the site!

Another reason to have two goal umpires at each end, one on each goal post.

Wolfmother I don't think this is a case of people being shouted down. When if comes down to it, "no records" is not significantly different from inadequate ones which provide no evidence either way. But it does bear on the issue of did they destroy incriminating records. The existence of poor records is some indication that nothing was destroyed. Only some indication though, not conclusive evidence.

I will be disappointed if we finish bottom 4, I think we are poised to surprise the competition this year! Then again, I thought that the last couple of years, so what the hell do I know?

I think it's also a phenomenon that's becoming much more common and virulent in the internet age. It used to be that one would have to get one's news from the mass media, and if one wanted to discuss an issue then it would have to be with one's social peers. In this way, it would be nearly impossible to avoid being confronted with arguments or facts that run contrary to one's own world view, and one would be pressed to adjust accordingly. These days, we can log onto the internet, and never have to hear a single opinion that one doesn't like. In politics, for example, it would be possible for me to log onto a partisan media outlet and then onto a forum populated entirely by people who entirely agree with me. I can go the whole day and have every single one of my opinions reinforced and not a single one of them challenged. It's almost inevitable that my ideas will become radicalized and increasingly distanced from reality. This is basically what's happened to essendon supporters now. They only trust some specific members of the media (I.e. Those who are pro essendon sycophants), they refuse to discuss the issue with their peers and they retreat at the first opportunity to their safe-place forums. Ideas that are expressed there snowball, and speculative ideas soon grow - through mass repetition and lack of questioning - into simply unimpeachable truths. Like their political equivalents, football fans on a football forum begin to develop a siege mentality, and become increasingly dependent on paranoid conspiracy theories to keep the increasingly unstable construct standing. For essendon supporters, this has become the simply unquestionable mantra that their is a joint afl, Asada and mass media conspiracy to persecute essendon even though they've done nothing wrong. Why any of these parties would be motivated to do such a thing is, of course, not a question that anyone there is permitted to ask. When it becomes inconvenient or even not permitted to question the basis of one's world view, inevitably incoherence will begin to set in because one is unreflectively just accepting convenient talking points without making any attempt to calibrate them against empirical reality. In such a way, inconsistencies - obvious to anyone but the group themselves - begin to set in. The club don't know what the players took but it was nothing illegal. Hird cards deeply about the welfare of the players but has no idea what the players were being injected with. Asada and the AFL are simultaneously evil, calculating masterminds and bumbling idiots. And so on -reality very quickly runs away from you if you aren't forced to take stock of it every now and then. That, incidentally, is why it's good to have people who reliably go against the group opinion on boards such as this one, rather than hounding them out of town at the first opportunity.

Hunt has something we seriously lack and that's electrifying speed, King has something all our ruckman lack and that's quality kicking skills and Harmes is another inside midfielder that has shown at VFL level he can win big numbers of the ball. Surely if the club can put over 7 years into Spencer for not much return surely it wouldn't hurt to give guys like King and Hunt who both have good AFL attributes a couple of years more development..