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I was there again, how tragic Only no show was Trengove, I think, Max King made a brief appearance and went inside to siwm, said he was off legs today, the Hammy Twins Vince and Howe ran laps, so did Neal Bullen, all said they are tracking as they should be, no timeframe on return as yet Gus Brayshaw didn't do much, said he didn't shine in the concussion test after the two knocks, he said both Viney and Tommy Mc got him in the praccy match, so has been given a light week, said he would be lucky to pass some of the tests unconcussed. Petracca was out there, handballing, coaching, encouraging, helping to get the padding down from around the goalposts at the end (I kid you not) Emphasis was on ball movement again, standouts today Tyson, Pedersen, Stretch, Bail Roos had one explosion, lack of support when Nathan Jones got a clearance New nickname for those that like them, Harmes is now Nut, both he and Vandenberg trained with the forwards Salem did a bit more one on one work at the end From Jade Rawlings, the time and location of the Intraclub was part of the program schedule, had been for a while Another interesting bit, JKH played as an inside mid for the Indigenous All Stars, said he enjoyed every minute of it, because of the lack of height in the IAS, they tried to read Eagles ruck taps, said he learned a lot Nev Jetta suitably modest about being in the best, said he was just doing his job, played on both Wellingham and Gaff Any questions feel free, pics will be on Twitter Demonpk soon

I'm in town for a few weeks from London so popped down today at about 10.15 for 45 minutes. So keep in mind that my observations are pretty limited and it was really hard to figure out who is who. The players seem to change jerseys every 5 minutes too. There's the red/blue, yellow, orange, white etc Perhaps it's because my expectations were high, but I was a little disappointed by today, except for moments of brilliance. Most of the session was broken up into groups with mids/forwards/backs etc but at one point they did a full ground drill with 'teams' rotating on and switching the play. The drill would start with a long kick into the backline which was marked by a free backman, who would then attempt to move the ball all the way down into the forward line. I noticed that the backline found it difficult to kick to free targets on the HBF/wing, mostly because players up the ground weren't really timing their run very well or moving to the right places. This could partly be due to excellent defence/manning up, which is a good thing for the team, but maybe not so great offensively. There were a few good moments though. Lumumba took a great grab and linked up well by handballing to the running Garlett. The last kick into the forward line was a bit hit and miss too. This was mostly because the players were well manned and the play was against the strong wind. Also, Watts marked the ball at about 60m from goal and spent a good 30 seconds trying to find a target and he wasn't really sure whether to have a ping at goal. He ended up kicking straight to a defender about 10m out from goal. But Watts had a brilliant play earlier at the other end where he picked up a ball on the run and kicked a left foot snap at goal through the middle with ease. Tyson looked good and made some low, pinpoint passes. JKH and Kent also showed some nice skills and Vandenberg did a few noticeable things. Hogan ragdolled Dawes at one point, which is not an easy thing to do. Hogan had to get some physio work on his glutes/hamstring mid-way through the session, but he joined in to the full drills later. It's good that he seems to speak with the physio at the sign of any tightness. I guess I was a bit disappointed that I was expecting end to end movement with no mistakes but obviously that's not going to happen. I also though the intensity was reasonably good during most of the drills but that plenty of time was spent strolling around between drills. Based on what people had reported on previously I was expecting more movement throughout the whole session. But again maybe I was expecting too much. One final thing. ANB was running laps at a serious pace. He's a beast. Bring on the games and 2015!! I'll be watching from London

Vandenberg is ticking all the boxes, he is now back training fully, spoke to him at Casey on Thursday, all his GPS numbers are AFL level, he is the third fastest or so at the club for sprint speed, he is up to his playing weight of 92k and is feeling like he belongs, the more I see of him the more I can see why the club took the punt on him. His kicking for goal is very good, he makes the occasional clanger but so does every player Can see why Harmes is being looked at up there as well, he is an aggressive bugger, can take a mark and is fast, and can kick goals, I would say we will get to see both at some stage playing forward in the NAB Cup

He was Watts today, moments of sublime skill, great speed and agility, dropped easy mark, etc etc, he did the whole session

I really struggle to understand what is gained by putting a second year rookie ruckman "on notice". It isn't going to make him get better faster. Just let the kid develop. To be truthful I struggle with the concept of "on notice" at all. All AFL players are aware of how quickly the end can come and they know if they don't perform they're gone - have a look at Cam Pedersen's comments last year. It's just stupid hyperbole that supporters spew out in order to make themselves feel like hardarses, I think, that has no reflection or relevance to reality.

Michie? He was given very little opportunity after breaking his jaw. His last 4 games last year saw him rated in the best 5. I thought he was stiff to be dropped after the Weagles belting in round two when two blokes with a combined career of 4 games seemed to be held solely responsible for the shellacking as they were the only ones dropped. In that game he had his eyelid split in the first minute and played the game out without one of his contacts in and 4 stitches. Did not surface again last 4 games where he acquitted himself very well, thought his North game was terrific when he blanketed Norths eventual B&F winner. I think he will be a starter in the first game. Shows he can get the pill and more importantly is very effective/efficient with it at around 85%. He just is not a flashy player but more one of the foot soldiers that every team needs. He is barely noticed but accumulates possessions which usually result in another down the line to one of the others in the team. There seems to be little love for Viv on this site which confuses me given little can be pointed at him in regard to failures.

They dont need blood tests. They can show probabilities They can show intent They can show waivers which list amongst items, Thymosin They can show quantities They can describe the routine of injections and can establish the protocol for use. Its is like describing a hole. There may be nothing actually in the hole but its size, its location and intended use can. In actuality there are contents to that hole. 34 players, a coach and a despicable club. And they put themselves in it !!!

Bernie is a seasoned pro, he will be there at the coalface in Round 1 racking up possies and kicking goals to help lead us to an exciting win over GCS

Daniel Cross will only be rested to preserve him for this year and next year. Bonus for the club, bonus for the youngsters, hard as a cat's head and an absolute exemplar of professionalism. I'd love to see him managed well so that he plays next year as well.

Sue Reverse the onus and imagine whether an effective doping code could work that way. And for the argument's sake replace EFC with the East german athletics team circa 1972. 1. Get a dodgy doctor 2. order dodgy drugs 3. create a high performance supplements program 4. Have the players sign waivers 5. When discovered say that 'we did everything by the book'. Our highly respected doctor told us that it was all above board. 6. track team wins lots of gold medals, dodgy doctor is rewarded handsomely with a villa in an exotic location and lots of cash, proud country parades its medals. 7. Doctor banned for life but country keeps all its gold medals as do the athletes You simply cannot have a drugs policy that works that way. That s why it has been repeated so many times here. PLAYERS ARE SOLELY RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT GOES IN THEIR BODY. It is the only way it can work if you want to have an effective drugs policy. Essendon are cooked,

Ricky Jackson says no... So does Troy Simmonds. Mongrel player.

LaDee, we were not found guilty of tanking. Admittedly our on field performances have been poor, but to compare our transgressions with those of Essendon is a step too far. What we did was pretty much what others were doing, the difference being we got caught. There was no systemic use of drugs unapproved for human consumption. There was no destroying or failing to keep evidence. There was no drawn out campaign of obfuscation. There was no drawn out legal challenge. There was no risk of permanently and irreparably damaging the health of young men under our care. We may be many things but we are not the cheats and liars that Essendon are nor do we perform unethical illegal human experimentation. No we cannot be compared to Essendon.

I agree with your first comments Saty, but I think it's just incorrect to say that the posters concerned with the timing of the day are not concerned with the match itself or won't go to Docklands. I am and I do. Discussing how to improve the club's interface with supporters after a intraclub match attended by only a couple of hundred is much better than those here who try and dismiss the discussion as whinging or askew priorities, especially when we hear of our rival cellar dwellers getting it right with a couple of 1000 fans in attendance. Our club would not exist without members. Appreciate you going to training so often and really like your reports, especially about what's actually happening on the field, but please give up the snide put downs.

The day of the ballarat game my wife is due to have our second child so might have to tie her legs shut

The AFL are between a rock and a hard place here. If as reasonably expected ASADA can establish a case that the EFC instituted a regime of illegally administered supplements then there has to be a significant penalty. This involves not only the standing of the AFL within Australia, but Australia's international sporting image as well. I doubt WADA would accept any sought of leniency on the grounds of expedience for a domestic competition from a club that not only tried to conceal evidence, but instituted legal proceedings on the basis that the competition they were involved in should not be involved in cooperating to find drug cheats. It would not only inflict further reputational damage on an already tarnished image it would serve as absolutely no deterrence to any other club on how to avoid/mitigate their punishment. A six month ban would be a complete blight on the game. I expect the punishment to be harsh for the players and very severe for those that were responsible for the oversight of the program. (perhaps including a lifetime ban)

ASADA will present its case. All 300 pages of it. Then, the players get a chance to either a) discredit that evidence or b) present an alternative. If they can do neither, or just sit on their hands and do nothing, then the ASADA case stands.

Maybe its time to remind some of the what we're talking about here regards what constitutes a "naughty" Banned VFL player Wade Lees warns ASADA will look to hit Essendon for sixHere we have a guy who suggests he only attempted to get a supplement and wasnt actually aware of any banned ingredients. Maybe he did, maybe he didnt but he never actually took ANYTHING.....and still got 18 months thankyou very much !! Essendon have admitted a program of supplements , just want us to believe in the easter Bunny and such about what it was. It wasnt a once off. Id was systemic. It wasnt a player, or two, it was the better part of the whole list. it wasnt approved by its own medical dept it was clandestine ( that ought to raise a flag on its own ) They didnt come willingly or cleanly to the table they fought tooth and nail to get off on a technicality ( and still do ) They admit no guilt, show no remorse and seemingly couldnt really give a rats about anything let alone the health of its guinea pigs and have obvious contempt for the League So lets keep this in mind: Scale of the offense, repeated nature of the offense as well as the culpability of it all. You dont obfuscate and hide amongst the shadows if youve done nothing untoward. If they had done nothing wrong it ought to be the easiest thing to show such. quack quack QUACK !!

yeah who wants to see Hogan, Lumumba, Frost, Garlett, Brayshaw etc running around in red and blue, how boring

With respect, you're the one speaking rubbish. Naturally, depth has been an issue, but more-so elite talent at the pointy end that has the capacity to influence match day results has been dire. Senior players set the tone at a club, not "depth players". Lack of "depth players" may prevent finals appearances, or even a flag, but lack of "star quality" players prevents any kind of success.

Exactly. If Hogan or Tyson have poor seasons, are we going to put them in the gun? In theory everyone is tradeable, but in practice only the middle 1/3 of the list are tradeable and only the bottom 1/3 are on notice.

Thanks Bruce.

We don't have to be interested - I'm not much interested myself. The point is that it's of immense significance to indigenous footballers throughout the country, not just those in the AFL. These blokes are very proud to play in this game.

As a passionate and long time member / supporter of this once great footy club, I expect more than the tripe that has been dished up over the last decade. I hate the way footy has changed over the years, made worse by our pitiful performances. I have come to except the changes, although I don't agree with most of them, but I can't except second rate teams with sub standard levels of football nous. That has been us to a tee, sadly. Thank god for PJ mostly , and P.Roos for giving a chance to get back where we should be, that is to play in the finals in the near future. What PJ has done has been remarkable. Having read the training reports and the positivity has me wishing this season can't come quick enough. There is a lot to like so far.Hogan is just one for starters. I'm looking forward to a big improvement this year, 8 wins? The downisde is, and taking into account not a shot has been fired yet, I am seeing, hearing, the same culprits STILL with issues in regards to skill levels. There is nothing more frustrating watching us win the footy, only to see it handed over, then watch the ball came back in quicker than it left, then they score. Someone listed a stat on our turnovers that the oppostions scored from, breaks my heart and kills the team spirit. To keep improving we need to keep turing the list over. So during the year I have penciled in some players if they cant improve, will be on my short list to go. At the end of the year we are required to make list changes. 1: Trenners: (love the guy to bits) injury cloud on his playing future, nearly traded to my horror. Fully fit will be an assett. (Wont know where he is at with his football until next year?) 2: Grimes: no doubting his courage etc, but geez, if he keeps missing targets coming out of the backline, at 25 we really need to ask the question if he is up too AFL std and is he helping our cause. 3: Spencer: Big angry young talls are hard to find, but needs to do a LOT more. 4: Fitzpatrick: Good pace etc, but has butter fingers, that could cost us a game. Would love for him to cement a spot. 5: Terlick: must be very nervous, so many pushing for the 1/2 backline. 6: McKenzie: Limited to what he can bring to a game. Great tagger, but gives nothing else. If anyone gives him the ball in our forward fifty ever again, I'll throw up. So there is my 5 I will have my eye on this year. Someone has to make room for our draft picks. The rest on the list seem safe atm but its a long way to go. I'm pretty confident the other players will go ok this year, Time will tell

I don't believe that that's enough - a couple of quick examples below. It's only in the third of these 3, where the player was in such a state that he wasn't in a position/state to ask questions, that he got off: “They must show “no significant fault or negligence” (penalty 12-24 months) or “no fault or negligence” where “the player (must) establish that he did not know or suspect, and could not reasonably have known or suspected” that he was using a prohibited substance or method (penalty 0-12 months). However, these tests are generally difficult to satisfy. Take the following cases from the Court of Arbitration for Sport: MEDICINAL cream used by a 17-year-old swimmer purchased in a foreign country for a foot condition unknowingly contained a steroid. No performance enhancement but a 12-month suspension ensued. TWO Australian weightlifters aged 17 and 18 tested positive for a stimulant similar to substances on the prohibited list. CAS found they had failed to properly inquire, though had not failed to inquire altogether, as to the integrity of the supplement drink. Two-year ban, not reduced on appeal. AN ice hockey player was administered the steroid Nandrolone by a doctor at hospital following a heavy “body check” in a Ukranian championship game. CAS accepted there was no fault or negligence as his very bad physical and mental condition made it impossible for him to monitor or ask questions about medications. He wanted to save his life; no suspension was imposed. http://www.sportslawyer.com.au/wada-compliant-afl-anti-doping-code-severe-in-penalties-on-banned-substances/

NO. http://www.asada.gov.au/rules_and_violations/8_rule_violations.html Read rule 2: 2. Use or attempted use by an athlete of a prohibited substance or prohibited method. Read and understand what is said. Use or attempted use .... Read rule 7: 7. Trafficking or attempted trafficking in any prohibited substance or prohibited method Read and understand what is said. Trafficking or attempted trafficking... Read rule 8: 8. Administration or attempted administration to any athlete in-competition of any prohibited method or prohibited substance, or administration or attempted administration to any athlete out-of-competition of any prohibited method or any prohibited substance that is prohibited out-of-competition, or assisting, encouraging, aiding, abetting, covering up or any other type of complicity involving an Anti-Doping Rule Violation or any attempted Anti-Doping Rule Violation. Read and understand what is said. Administration or attempted administration...... Go to the ADADA site and read it. Essendon are guilty.

Part of that burden of proof referenced towards ASADA is also the response from the players to the SCN...they arent actually separate things. ASADA asks, having shown a likely scenario to the players as per the SCN, that the players show that they DIDNT in fact take TB4 as surmised and that they took something else, possibly Thymomosin. If the players cant show this then that in itself goes towards the case that ASADA require to satisfy ' comfortably' to the tribunal that the players/club/coach have been naughty boys. Its not of itself the only thing or all thats required but its part and parcel thereof We're dealing with the two ends of the same piece of string. Many a commentator ( moreso those with agendas ) wish to portray this as two different beasts. All ASADA need to show is all roads lead to Rome and ask the players to show that they werent in Rome. If they cant...theyre cooked

Both Howie and Bernie Vince are being treated with kid gloves by the Fitness/Medical staff, Howies was originally more serious than Bernie's, spoke to Howie on Thursday and (Fitzy confirmed it today, he has had a bit of a niggle)....the player feels they can take 3 steps, the medical/fitness staff allow them to take one, it is frustrating all round but they all know it is for the best

haha "the guys who we asked to get it are really dodgy so we arent sure they got us the right stuff which we ordered"

Better (seven years) late than never.

Sounds like the name of a kosher deli.

My guide does.

Aidan Riley. Horrible user of the footy.

So a mid/half back vs a forward for one spot? Gee our match committee needs some guidance if this is the issue. People are so critical of watts, take away the draft number of all players, and we have about 16 players week in week out getting games who have a lot less influence on our performance than jack. He's doing ok, and when we improve, being the type of player he is he will improve significantly. Toump will be a gun. He is silky. Has had a major surgery in both his years at the club. Before that he was rated top 5 in the country. It's almost like half the melbourne supporters want our players to fail. How about supporting! You have a kid who it is well known was struggling for confidence and dealing with the pressures of everything to do with the afl (including his performance vs draft pick) and the people who should want him to do well increase the pressure on him by feeding the media frenzy with ridiculous criticism.

Thank God (or whatever you believe in)......The footy is back this week.....

The best news is Injuries : nil.

There is a difference between "players on notice" and players who are tradeable or become free agents. Players on notice would be those whose life at the club or the AFL in general would be dependent on how they perform this year. IMO, they would be the following: McKenzie - One dimensional role player with no offensive skills. No other club would pick up if delisted. Terlich - Can find the footy, but poor disposal and option taking is a cardinal sin for a backman in the modern game. Doubt that another club would pick up if delisted. Spencer - Not up to AFL standard. Won't get picked up by another club. Fitzpatrick - Unless he can develop as a ruckman, he may get cut, as he is not a KPF. Another club will probably take a chance with him. M.Jones - Will be a starter in Round 1, but if he loses his place during the year to one of the younger mids (Stretch, ANB, Brayshaw, JKH, Toumpas), he may struggle to retain a place on the list. Personally, I'd keep him, but it'd be line ball. Doubt that another club would pick up if delisted. Grimes, Watts, Garland and Toumpas may be on notice for a position in our 22, but all have currency and would be picked up by another club.

Sorry, but a comparison was made. However I do accept what you say with regard to the general public and the EFC. The spin doctors from Essendon have been working feverishly to get the great uninformed onside. I think they have been largely successful to date, so I agree that they do not care as much as us. But that is no reason to compare us to them. I feel sullied to have my team compared with Essendon. We may not play the best footy but we don't risk the futures of our players using illegal substances.

I feel like this contradicts your point completely, due to their loss of star power they struggled. Hawthorn had 14 players play over 20 games in the year and whilst they were able to bring in depth players to play games this shows more the extent of a relatively stable group. Depth is vital, but Agraders are far more important, the more a graders you have in a team the easier it is to find role players who are able to fit into the team and do what is necessary for the team. Depth is not our biggest issue at Melbourne, the fact we have one Elite and very few who would be classified as good footballers is our biggest issue. With players like Mcdonald, Viney, Tyson, hogan and watts we have potential for a large group o very good talent and this will increase our chances of playing finals.

Why do the Essendrug players need anonymity so badly when Patrick Ryder, Stewart Crameri and Angus Monfries have been afforded none? Essendope and its players, coach and president are absolutely gutless leaving those 3 blokes to carry the can The AFL doesn't need Essenjection, and I hope like hell they are wiped out forever and Tassie can finally have a team

I like how you agree that the lack of memberships etc on the day was strange from the club, then go on to blame the 'minority' for the whinging when you've clearly agreed it's a valid point. For many of the pages the discussion focused on the game, and as more info came to hand in the later part of the thread we discussed other elements of the day. Perfectly fine in anyone's book.

I love it when a player works really hard and turns their game around as Jetta has done. Shows how committed he is and how much he wants it. Other players should take note. Goodluck for 2015 and beyond Jetta.

From year one I've watched Watts get into perfect positions to hurt the opposition, slipping out back and into space, only to be ignored as though he was as invisible to our ball carriers as he was to their defenders. He has a great awareness of space and how to use it to his advantage to avoid contact. He needs to work harder when the opposition has the ball (the same skill can be used to close down dangerous space and slow other team's transition). He needs to learn how to grab someone around their hips and NOT LET GO. I have not given up on him yet.

Don't get too comfy, you've got training and match reports to write up and post!

If only you had done that 9 months ago you wouldn't be in this predicament now would you? #badplanning #lackofforesight

Yeah I agree with you mate... I don't like seeing people play half the year at Casey and half the year in the red and blue, it's hard to know what sort of year they have had. We need to take the approach we have nothing to loose but everything to gain in 2015.

Just back: Some comments: Hogan: Simply an asset. Aggressive, quick, strong hands, awkward but reliable kick. N Jones: Busy. Just Jones Salem: Will be a lock for 22 on this form. Played down back and had a lot of it and kicked very well. Toumpas: Made the odd mistake but found plenty of it and kicked well. Dawes: Can't get a clean mark, they were all two grabbers. Not that impressive but worked hard. Viney: Aggressive, plenty of the ball and linked up well. Brayshaw looked taken aback by Viney's attack on the ball. He'll learn. Lumumba: As you'd expect. Just blowing the cobwebs away. Brayshaw: Pretty much unsighted by me. Gawn: Did ok competing up forward and rucked well but was beaten by Jamar who will be no 1 on todays form. Tyson: Not prolific but classy. McKenzie: Prolific but not classy. Pity he can't do more with the ball but he cut Kent right out of the play coming off half back. Dunn: Solid workout BILLY STRETCH: What did we pay for this bloke? Well it was a bargain. Plenty of the ball, ran well, clean hands, kicked well. I loved his father and I'll love watching Billy. Frost: Solid at both ends. I really like this bloke. Kent: Rarely sighted. I was disappointed as I love this bloke. Cross: Just gets it but made some awful disposal clangers. Newton: Didn't notice him much. I think he's that sort of player as I noticed another poster praised him. Garland: Solid Pedersen: Good competitive hitout. Competed well in the ruck and around the ground. Michie: Started really well and I thought was one of our better players but died out a little. Found a lot of the ball. T Mac: Solid Riley: Solid O Mac: Was involved in a bit but a project player I'd have thought. Grimes: Solid. No kicking clangers that I saw. Garlett: On this form he'll be the recruit of the season and Malthouse will just look silly. Class above. Jamar: Best ruckman. Took a good grab but little involvement other than that. Spencer: A game to forget for Jake. Bail: Played very well early with plenty of the ball and played centre square a bit. Great run, clean with the ball. M Jones: Played well. Kicked well and has pace. In best 22 on todays form I'd have thought. Terlich: Lots of the ball and played as Terlich plays. Harmes: Aggressive at the ball but not pressing ahead of the other "competing" mids for a spot. It seemed to me to be a day where the "definite" 22 just went through the paces, got a bit of the ball and looked to find some touch. The other players had something to prove and some took their chances. I don't think Stretch is ready but was impressive, Toump and Salem were good and Salem in particular has stepped up significantly as you'd expect. There were times when there was no flow in the game with multiple kicks across half back but there did seem to be a more attacking flavor to the game plan. Pity that a few missed but shyte happens. I'll be interested to compare my impressions with others.

Ben Guthrie on Twitter: The Demons are going through their final prep ahead of today's intra-club at Casey. There will be 3 x 20 min q's. No wonder we have a maths crisis* in this country. Three 20 minute quarters. Hmmm. *Note: We may or may not actually have a maths crisis

Who said people wont be at Cranbourne at 2 ? I will. For too long a lot of MFC supporters act like little gods deeming nobody lives more than 10 kms from the GPO. That's one of the reasons our supporter base is so low and one of the oldest in age. We seem to look down on people who live out here, I live in Pakenham and cant make training at Goshs paddock, but I enjoy the reports put on this site from Dees supporters. But hold training or match practice out here and the noses rise a bit higher. Come out breathe the air , we are people and Dees supporters out here too.

Josh McGuiness is about the least indigenous sounding name that I've ever heard.