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Watts offers things most of those players don't. His success would be invaluable to our success.That's my opinion. We don't all agree.

In other words, just come back :lol:

Best post I've seen so far from an Essendon fan on this: "The Wada code was designed to catch Athletes in Olympic sports so giving an Athlete a 2 year ban won't really destroy them when they only compete once every 4 years."

That is all well and good and of course there are differences but the fact remains that the Cronulla players admitted taking banned PEDs. In comparison to the sentences many athletes have received in the last few years (eg the ones WJ listed above) 6 months is extremely generous. Wade Lees cops 18 months for inadvertently importing a supplement with a banned ingredient which he never even used. Ahmad Saad 18 months (and ASADA wanted more) for an inadvertent single use use of a banned PED in a protein drink. Both missed whole seasons of footy. The Cronulla players used illegal PEDs on multiple occasions and get 6 months and miss bugger all games. Fair? i don't think so. Sending a powerful message/disincentive? I don't think so If WADA were so hot to trot on making sure players copped their fair wack and laying down a marker then surely they would not have let the penalties Cronulla negotiated through to the keeper. Yet that is precisely what they did. I call [censored] on the whole WADA are the tough guys who will reign down vengeance on EFC palaver you are spinning.

I dislike people who say Watts hasn't earnt a spot/played well enough. He played 22 games and in the games we won he played a significant role in our scoring. He had his best season finishing top 10 in the bnf. He is unlikely to be a power forward, but his continual work rate will be rewarded with better users of the football. He is by far our best user of the football by foot and even our best decision maker, but let's just get rid of him because he doesn't win enough hard ball. We start winning the midfield battle and are able to get clean possession in his hands. We will start to win more games

I reckon we would have beaten them last year in round 1 but for the fact that we lost Tom McDonald (who was covering Riewoldt) and Jack Fitzpatrick early. We were already very short of tall timber and key position players and on top of that kicked ten points in a row after kicking the first two goals. The tide will turn this year - we'll beat them easily both times.

Which I like to bring up why Eddie McGuire has been so silent on the issue? Not like him to be shy and retiring.

What a ridiculous thread

He plays his role week in week out that's why he plays in the seniors

dafuq

An interesting piece in The Guardian- Just not cricket – how Channel Nine is destroying a legacy

Come off it mate where are the cheers in this thread then? http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/35541-neville-jetta-delisted/ As I said majority of us wanted Jetta to make it. We were all fan of his but injuries played a big part which also resulted in form. Don't make out as if you were the only one that never doubted Jetta.

I stopped reading your posts a month or so ago, but thought I would answer this, obviously you don't read my training reports closely enough, I have consistently reported that in my opinion everything seems to have improved, skills, running, fitness etc......but then again I am like everybody else I have no idea whether this will translate onto game dayI think the improvement if it does occur won't suddenly transfer us into a finals team, I thought maybe 6 or 7 wins at the most I only go to training because I was made redundant and because a lot of people can't get to training I could provide a bit of regular info and photos, find me a job and the reports will stop if that's what you want I just find it rather risible but understandable that a lot of posters on here steadfastly refuse to believe that players can improve, they want to ditch them and bring in some new meat.....and then when a player 'suddenly' becomes a better player it makes them look rather foolish....examples being Dunn and Jetta in the last year or two and our captain Nathan Jones over a longer length of time I could even add the Tyson trade, strange how that turned out, a guy who spent the first couple of years of his career injured, yet with good coaching and development....well On Matt Jones, he has got another full pre season under this belt, he is at the age where he should be at the top of his game, if he gets in the 22, I expect him to be one of our better players this year

I was the one who brought up Morton in relation to Jones and how he has been training. I made the comparison that both could run to the right spot and make space, but both lack the right skill set to finish it off and make correct decisions. I think mentioning Morton, in that context, was valid. And I am sure you have attended every training session. Those of us with jobs can't be so lucky, but that still doesn't make you the messiah when it comes to best 22. If being a Melbourne fan over the last decade has taught us anything then it's that we can't put much stock in training - how many times has someone improved their skill level or worked hard etc at training, only to be a huge let down come the season proper? Too many times to count in my book. From where I sit, and going by what I've seen of someone like Matt Jones on match day and not during simulated training sessions where there is little pressure, is that if he is in our best 22 then we aren't going forward as a club. By now we should have more than enough talent and skill level on our list that makes Jones, a guy who works hard to get the best out of himself, no more than a depth player. I'd be worried if it were otherwise, but I'm more than happy to have him on our list in that role as his commitment levels have always been terrific. I'm always stoked to hear that the intensity, belief etc is well and truly up and that the standards and expectations have risen. It's fantastic. But to make sweeping statements about players and how much their skill level has risen is going way, way over the top. Like I said, if Matt Jones is in the best 22 then as a supporter I would be a little worried.

I just want him to come back and be better then Scully!!!!!

This I think is the value of Matt here. He is a just a good depth player and will not be playing two's without a fight. Him in the ones means a Salem, Viv, Toump, Track and Brayshaw must be getting plenty of the pill in the pre-season or the twos early enough so they get a taste at his expense. No more playing guys on there potential which is fantastic. Although I sincerely doubt he would make a top 4 team at the moment he is good enough depth for me.

What does this question even mean? What does Hawthorn 'stand for'? Success? What does Collingwood 'stand for'? Something different? If the question is 'how is Melbourne viewed by the public?', the answer is a combination of pity ('I feel sorry for them') and disgust ('I'm sick of this rabble wasting a spot in the competition'), and the only way to cure that is to win games.

I think Matt Jones is a good solid player but I expect guys like Salem and toumpas to overtake him, he allows them to develop rather than play too much too early

I'm not a huge Jones fan but I can understand how someone who comes into the system as a mature age player can improve these things. He is getting the sort of development and training that he's never had before because he's now a full time AFL footballer. He's also learning the pace of the game and adjusting to that. His development is of a third year player, not a 27 year old.

I'm sorry, but nonsense. The longer this goes on in limbo the longer ultimately will be the penalty. Let's say that the final findings from WADA and CAS aren't confirmed until mid year , say July. This means that the players with infraction notices will not be able to play until then. Let's also assume the CAS penalties are two years. This means the penalties will most likely be dated from July 2015, meaning none of the players will be eligible to play until July 2017, by which time a number of them will be due for retirement. It is ironic,all this stuffing around by ESSENDON, Hird, and the AFL just adds to the pain of ESSENDON. The Hirds and Little are hugely culpable in this. WADA is very much aware of this and are constantly amazed how self interested and selfish all the parties are who are involved in this. It will not stop them from imposing the harshest penalties possible though. For them it is a test case for the rest of the world, one they simply HAVE to win.

Quite frankly Grace is a disgrace.. A faustian convert if ever. He should resign his Aths position immediately.

You speak for me too Wiseblood. We all would be thrilled to see Matt Jones be part of the team resurgence upward but at 27 it's very difficult to improve the areas of disposal and decision making which are his big weaknesses. Personally, I'd be very concerned if we were climbing the ladder over the next few years and guys like M Jones, Terlich and Bail were still regulars in the side. I haven't chatted to Roos or the players about this, but I have observed them closely on match day when it counts. Glad to see them giving their all at training, competition for spots is great, but the real stuff starts April 4, we will find out where they are at in the weeks after that.

The President of Athletics Australia who slammed the concept of different punishments within world sport is David Grace QC who happens to be representing the majority of the 34 players in the anti doping case currently before the AFL Tribunal. David is of course arguing that the players are not guilty as charged but if the Tribunal comes up with an adverse finding he's going to be in a position where he would be arguing in favour of penalties that IMO would be embarrassing to ask for. International athletes found guilty in these circumstances often lose their medals, prize money and routinely are barred from competing for 18 months to two years. Looking at recent cases affecting our sport, we have VFL player Wade Lees 18 months for mistakenly purchasing a weight reduction supplement that was banned (he never received the order, let alone used it), St. Kilda's Ahmed Saad 18 months for mistakenly taking a supplement which was banned if it was in the system on match days. Then there's Jarrod Bannister 20 months as above. The signals from the Essendon camp and their media groupies are that if found guilty, they will be getting six months backdated as far as possible to make this a Claytons penalty for a year long systematic injecting regime. Welcome to Planet Bizzaro!

As I understand it, the only member of the last Board remaining on the current Board is Dr. David Thurin with who I have had a few discussions from time to time about the club and have noted that he went to great lengths explaining that he couldn't speak on certain matters because they were confidential within the club. I know from another source that he is so secretive on the issue of club matters that he even refused to discuss a player's injury with a colleague in the medical fraternity. That being the case, I believe your comment is completely out of order.

I think we need to establish our credibility as a team before anything and then we can start establishing great rivalries. Start beating the likes of Sydney or Adelaide on a regular basis both at home or away and we should be able to say with honesty that we represent the biggest city in our state and not just a small suburb that forms a part of it.

If asada was at Melbourne it's probably to see goodwin, trying to fish for any info to bury hird, maybe they say if you cooperate you will be left alone to go about your coaching career

Hahaha!!! What a waste of time these comments are. All the Watts/Toump doubters will quickly jump on board during the season. I can't wait for the "I told you so's" to come. It's going to be fun to watch some eat their piece of the humble pie being baked right now. See you then.

Perhaps interesting (for us) BF post from the Carlton supporter who seems to have direct contact with the case and/or ASADA. He was the one that posted the now-famous/deleted copy of part of the ASADA brief over at Bigfooty: "There is a view on here that the investigation stopped after the interim report. Obviously that is rubbish. However, it is also rubbish that the investigation stopped after infraction notices were issued. They had enough evidence, in their view, to get a successful outcome but of course they would not stop to attempt to strengthen their case. I am sure, even now, ASADA are still investigating, I understand that they had investigators at Melbourne and my club in the last few days and were interviewing individuals at those clubs."

To my settings, another for the ignore function!

Jetta dominated Wingarad and cross over polec Tyson dominated and Salem should have been rising star that week

That's not true. The 'consensus' was more disappointment that a player of his toughness couldn't make it, and then there was a desire for him to be rookied - the rest is history. No-one on here wishes the players ill-will, and we all hope they can become a consistent Demon. But they have their deficiencies and their bad luck and some players work through them and some don't. And some just shouldn't have been chosen to be AFL players.

I've been watching some replays on Foxtel recently and I have been impressed with Watts work rate. He ain't a monster, but his run and attack was A LOT better than previous years. Roos has instilled some confidence in him IMO. The other thing I've noticed is when Watts is getting the ball, we score at a much better rate than when he isn't getting the ball. In previous years I alwaays felt that Jack was too worried at making mistakes or doing things wrong. In the few replays I've seen recently, he is working hard without fear. He will only get better. Particularly now we have ball hunters who will get the ball to him.

Time will tell as to who's right on Matt Jones. I'm one of those who believes that if everyone was available and at the top of his game, Jones might struggle to get into the best 22 and I would go so far as to say, I would prefer to put game time into some of our younger players if the choice became necessary. Meanwhile, a few posters here can go on being precious and blissfully refusing to read each others' reports, I'll read as much as I can and make up my own mind as one not fortunate enough to have the time to get to training in person. I therefore appreciate the efforts of everyone who takes the trouble to offer their reports.

Disagree.

No. If you don't like what a poster has to say don't read it. Sure I have heard that somewhere before.

He would have needed to get him from when he was drafted. The Bailey days. I've never known a player to be literally 'given' 50 + free games without having to work for them. It was a bad pick and it was worse development. His time at West Coast backs that theory.

Matt Jones is seriously underrated IMO. As was Dunn. And Jetta. I remember reading an article a while back in which Shannon Byrnes and David Rodan both said that Matt Jones was really evasive and had good skills - in short, a nice find. I reckon he'll get a lot of game time this year.

I spent a fair amount of time in court yesterday which is what lawyers do from time to time and didn't have much time to catch up with this and other threads but must comment on how more enjoyable it is reading the last couple of training report threads now that people are getting the message that these are meant to inform and discuss the team's preseason training rather than to personally attack those who go to the trouble of reporting or pander to individual egos. The impression I always get at this time of year is one shrouded in rose colours and I actually made the comment half seriously at the one session I was able to attend that these days our grand final is Australia Day. I know it's a bit of a cliche but I do get the feel that it's different this year. We seem to have a lot more depth on the list having cleared away a fair amount of deadwood including some players who I describe as "cultural deadwood" in that they were recruited often as high draft picks but came through a period in which our recruiting and development aims really weren't conducive to competing with the clubs that adopted best practice. I don't think many of us would have fully recognised it at the time but the signs were there, particularly with players who lagged badly in the early running and fitness phases. We tolerated players often because they came with big reputations as juniors but perhaps didn't or couldn't work hard enough when they got here. I think that's what's different under Roos and what I've been sensing from the reports. Perhaps, and in deference to Dennis Denuto (the Kerrigan family lawyer from the Castle), I can call it the "vibe" but like Denuto, I've been wrong before.

Your final line sums it up for me Jack - "start winning games". For the last several years we have been easybeats, a joke. FFS, I was once at a game where a Hawthorn supporter "felt sorry" for Melbourne. We must win games and regain credibility as a football club. We must be seen as a serious football club. For all that I hate Collingwood they have a swagger and street cred that at the moment we can only dream about. Win games, become arrogant bas tards!

This should not be forgotten. "MELBOURNE chief executive Peter Jackson has announced his immediate resignation from his role as AFL Victoria chairman. Jackson's energies have been increasingly dedicated to the Demons and he recently extended his contract with the club until the end of next season. Although he was at AFL Victoria in an advisory role, Jackson felt he could no longer continue in his adjoining capacities."

It was widely reported at the time and a comparison was made with Matthew Richardson who had the same injury. There is a wide range of severity of the Lisfranc some heal OK but others can be career ending. It seems Clark has recovered from his. The problem with Trengoves navicular is that it had to be bone grafted and that takes a long time to reach full strength. The immobility required causes dramatic muscle wasting which will take a lot of rehab once weight bearing is possible. They are now using bone morphogenetic protein which is like a natural superglue to aid the strength of the graft so a good long term result should be possible as long as it is not rushed - and I'm sure it won't. The surgeons that do this are not going to risk a bad result. That's why I firmly believe Jack has a good long term future and at 24 shouldn't be written off.

Tracey Holmes = Bomber spin doctor. No credibility.

With hogan, dawes + third tall it givr Watts a chance to become a handy crumbing forward. He is extremely fast and has very good hands below the knees. Toumpas seems to want to play like isaac smith but at this stage is lacking both speed and endurance

When Simon Goodwin first interviewed with us he was very honest, ASADA would realise it's in his best interests to continue to do so.

was always a possibility they would come and ask us questions, given dank was in contact with our doctor and that trengove visited Alavi's chemist. i would hope that our club would handle itself totally differently to essendon - as well as have records of who took what and when. not to mention the fact that we sacked the doc the second we found out he had been talking to dank!

Latest from Titus O'Reily: AFL announce the Essendon v St Kilda NAB Challenge match to have the Benny Hill music played throughout.

Evans was - but Hird shafted him and has bluffed everyone since - except a couple of judges, ASADA - and hopefully the tribunal. "How to bury your head in the sand, take a full salary ,swan off overseas and take a few blind fans with you!" He lived in Canberra at one stage didn't he

Take a big picture view of this... A prominent team in a high profile indigenous sport has breached the international doping code - and has attempted to avoid prosecution through a series of challenges to the legality of the investigatory process. Should the independent Board of Commissioners overseeing that sport take a conciliatory view by imposing a series of short term measures designed to preserve the status quo - or draw a line in the sand and say enough is enough - we need to rise above this - we are withdrawing your licence and handing the 18th licence to a fresh new organisation? That sport will lose friends - and money - in the short-term - but in the long-term it will be able to hold its head high as a pure competition which doesn't tolerate cheats.. Ultimately - and certainly if WorkSafe prosecute the organisation - that may well be the decision confronting the AFL. If - as we continue to hear - the other 17 clubs are united in their condemnation of the Little Herd Show - it must be getting closer to the Agenda. The Tassie Bombers hmm....?

Another player who spent time at the Junction Oval. Too many have got sick or died for my liking... Long shot maybe, but so many....

"Our players have less rights than the average Australian citizen" As has been pointed out above, the players freely signed their contracts to play in the AFL and those contracts entitle them to substantial pay for their labour (which incidentally is far more than the average working Australian citizen gets). When you boil it down, the Federal Court justices upheld the contractual rights of the parties involved in the dispute which Hird took all the way to its full bench. If Hird is so concerned about the law that he thinks it's bad for our citizenry, then he should take it up with his local representatives in Parliament and not with the courts, which in this case correctly interpreted the existing law.