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I spent a fair amount of time in court yesterday which is what lawyers do from time to time and didn't have much time to catch up with this and other threads but must comment on how more enjoyable it is reading the last couple of training report threads now that people are getting the message that these are meant to inform and discuss the team's preseason training rather than to personally attack those who go to the trouble of reporting or pander to individual egos. The impression I always get at this time of year is one shrouded in rose colours and I actually made the comment half seriously at the one session I was able to attend that these days our grand final is Australia Day. I know it's a bit of a cliche but I do get the feel that it's different this year. We seem to have a lot more depth on the list having cleared away a fair amount of deadwood including some players who I describe as "cultural deadwood" in that they were recruited often as high draft picks but came through a period in which our recruiting and development aims really weren't conducive to competing with the clubs that adopted best practice. I don't think many of us would have fully recognised it at the time but the signs were there, particularly with players who lagged badly in the early running and fitness phases. We tolerated players often because they came with big reputations as juniors but perhaps didn't or couldn't work hard enough when they got here. I think that's what's different under Roos and what I've been sensing from the reports. Perhaps, and in deference to Dennis Denuto (the Kerrigan family lawyer from the Castle), I can call it the "vibe" but like Denuto, I've been wrong before.

I'm so over hearing this question, what does it even mean?

This is an outstanding article on the recently departed AFL Commissioner, to be Victoria's Governor, Linda Dessau. Had heard nothing about her except a comment on DL that she is an Esendon supporter. http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/first-woman-governor-could-have-been-first-woman-afl-chairman-20150213-13e6s7.html In reading this part: "...Dessau...who, with Mostyn, was said to have stood firm and united against her fellow commissioners on at least one pivotal point during the deliberations over how to correctly deal with Essendon for its serious player welfare failings of 2011-12. As the heat intensified, neither woman was prepared to be significantly swayed by a push for a speedier or more expedient result. While the pair often disagree at the commission table they were fiercely as one upon Essendon. For Dessau, the Bombers' behaviour and responses after David Evans' resignation as Essendon chairman certainly affected her relationship with her beloved network. She resigned that year as a judge of the network's Football Woman of the Year and did not attend the now entrenched grand final week women's lunch..." I realized that she can be very neutral when it comes to ethics and values. That she has left the Ess Womens's network speaks volumes about her integrity. Interesting that it happened after David Evan's was thrown under a bus by Hird!! She obviously knows who the wrong doer really is!! The article also talks about Dessau being an ideal replacement for Fitzpatrick as Chair of the Commission, in due course. IMO Fitzpatrick's used-by date has expired. He has had too many conflict of interests: Etihad Stadium connections, CFC associations and the non-action on tanking and more recently his back room dealings to involve (I think Wiley) in the EFC saga in 2013. (This is probably something for another thread but I wonder why AFL Commission members are not voted on by paid up members of the 18 Clubs in the same way shareholders vote for seats on a company Board. Time to overhaul the commission perhaps? As I said a subject for another thread) Looks like we have lost a top operator in Dessau and I just hope that the AFL don't choose a sycophant (male or female) to tow the party line in Commission meetings to replace her.

Your final line sums it up for me Jack - "start winning games". For the last several years we have been easybeats, a joke. FFS, I was once at a game where a Hawthorn supporter "felt sorry" for Melbourne. We must win games and regain credibility as a football club. We must be seen as a serious football club. For all that I hate Collingwood they have a swagger and street cred that at the moment we can only dream about. Win games, become arrogant bas tards!

I went to my 5th session today. Notes (apologies for any repetition) - 8 or 9 blokes in the rehab, Vince wasn't at the ground. Watts and Howe look pretty fit despite not participating. - Frost looks great, a true athlete with size, speed and strength. You can see his usefulness streaming out of defense. I think he is a lock for R1 - Jones is as prolific in intra-club match sims as he is in the real thing, the bloke is just a gem - Gawny looked good playing key forward, a very imposing figure.. it seems very likely he will be spending lots of time down there in 2015 and for mine he could be one of the ones to take a big step forward - Toumpas is starting to grow on me. I still worry that he has nothing about him that makes him stand out, and that he might not be able to get his hands on it enough BUT gee he moves really well and is a super efficient user. He is a smooth operator. Can't wait to see his year. - Vandenberg got some wraps for some good tackling and general contested footy. Is a chance to make an impact. - Petracca looks every bit a senior player. Overall I was pretty happy, there were some fluffed kicks but if you take Terlich out of the equation you just about halve the number! Sorry but it's true! Overall marking, movement, linking up etc looked good Heart attack moment: Jones vs Tyson running back with the flight of a skyball, at the moment of contact each held their ground in attempt to 'body bounce' the other guy off, there was no holding back in intensity. Tyson won. Jones got up gingerly clutching his knee, with Tyson offering his apologies. Jones went to the boundary and got looked at, but it seems he is OK. Good thing this is the bloke that misses a game about every 2 years because he is made of concrete. Scary moment, but exciting to see Tyson man up and defeat the skipper..

Disagree.

Watts offers things most of those players don't. His success would be invaluable to our success.That's my opinion. We don't all agree.

No we would not all agree. And to presume that all of us would agree on anything is rather presumptuous, perhaps many would agree.

Success in an organisation is about clarity of expectation. If people are unsure of what is required/expected of them they will not perform at their best. Success comes when every "difficult conversation" about performance is framed by a shared understanding of the organisation's expectations. You can call it culture or whatever you like, but without a shared understanding, success will not come. It's not enough to hope for success, or for individuals to do their best; it's about everybody working as one to achieve a shared goal. The MFC has to stand for something. An uncompromising belief in our ability to be successful would be a good start.

It wouldn't matter to me how much training I've seen over the summer - unless it improves on match day then it hasn't improved at all, training or not. Any bloke with a foot can look good without the pressure that match day brings, whether that be in some match sim or during some drills. He is only as good as his last season, and his last season showed his skills and decision making to be average at best. Until he can consistently show improvement on match day then I put no stock in training at all.

Attended my first training session for the year. There were very few bystanders so I thought I'd give my observations. I must have been on the other side of the ground to Baghdad Bob, cause I hardly noticed Petracca but noticed others not mentioned. The match simulation involved 1 player with a white vest who played for both teams. Those players were Tyson, Viney and N.Jones alternatively. Tyson copped a spray from Roos for not giving off a handball which resulted in a turnover. Standouts - Despite his earlier error, Tyson is our classiest player and makes the game look easy. - N. Jones just kept getting the ball. - Newton was the player that surprised me the most. Great awareness and decision making, and a lovely left foot kick. - Hogan clunked a fantastic contested mark and roamed as far as the centre. His kicking for goal doesn't seem to be a concern either. - Garlett didn't do a lot, but will be great around Hogan. - The backline players in Jetta, Dunn, Salem and Frost were impressive. I didn't have huge wraps on Frost, but his defensive skills were great. Salem also copped a spray from Roos for playing on and kicking to a contest, but his disposal is 1st class which is sadly lacking in our backline. Brayshaw got a fair bit of the ball at half back. Disappointments - Viney was in the play alot, and was in his element when tackling was involved. However he missed targets too often and at one stage smashed his fist into the ground after having a handball blocked by Frost, resulting in a goal at the other end. - Collectively Spencer, Pedersen, McKenzie and M.Jones made the same mistakes they've been making their whole careers. Spencer and [Pedersen] dropping marks under little pressure. McKenzie going to ground unnecessarily to give off a handball resulting in a turnover.(Keep your bl##dy feet). M. Jones almost missed the lot when having a set shot 30m out straight in front. Toumpas got plenty of the ball, but every time he did, he'll stop to survey what's ahead of him, and kick the ball leaning back. This results in the ball taking longer to get to a teammate. Good players know what they're going to do with the ball before they get it. It's something that Toumpas needs to work on. Overall I thought the standard was pretty average in what seemed to be a low intensity match simulation. The conditions were fairly windy, but there were too many missed targets. On a positive note, the addition of Hogan, Garlett, Newton and Lumumba will hopefully improve our side. Contrary to BB, I thought that Jamar was clearly the dominant big man. Vince ran a lot of laps at a fairly decent pace, but I noticed a limp when he was walking. Howe also ran laps but seemed to be moving ok when kicking for goal.

Attended training. Haven't been to many so hard to compare but here goes ... There was a lot of match sim as stated by previous posters. I must say, I was wondering where the Demons were training and who the team was on Gosch's paddock, the training intensity has lifted that much. One thing I disagree with from another poster is that competition will be fierce for spots, including for the first time in years in the midfield. Interestingly, I don't think there were as many standout players as in previous years as the gap between our best trainers and worst is no where near as large as before. Just a few to catch my eye, observations below:- - Max Gawn showed some great contested marking strength on a number of occasions. Tom Mac was ragdolled a number of times by Max. I expect he will play deep forward, rotating ruck with Jamar this year. Marking really well. - We have a number of first year players that may actually be too good to leave out. Petracca has a real turn of speed and has strength/smarts to go with it. Will surely play early on. Brayshaw just does not waste a disposal, not as noticeable as Petracca but again he should play early. Stretch also impressed me today, small but a low centre of gravity enables him to scoop up the ball at pace and speed off. Might get a shot later in the year. Vandenberg is a big lad, seemed right in it most of training but a few errant kicks he will need to iron out to play seniors. Not yet convinced on him yet. The other lads further behind these four. - Hogan does not like to be beaten, ever. Has that strut to him a la Jono Brown. Can't wait to see him play. - Newton looks solid, a bit like Brayshaw does not make errors but also flies under the radar. - Mitchie, I am not sure about yet. Doesn't seem to have enough penetration when kicking long. Just cant see it. - Viney is a classic. Jones got a free kick paid and Viney pushed him hard in the chest. He is just one way, all aggression. - Matt Jones. Seems to have developed an extra yard and seems more poised with the ball in hand. Unfortunately noticed Terlich for opposite reasons. - Salem. Would love him and Jetta in the backline. Kicking sublime and Jets to lock down the most dangerous small. - Frost. First time I have seen him and he has some real toe for a big guy. Marked, ran past and baulked an opponent at one stage. Impressive. - Last but not least Toumpas. Looks like he just belongs now. Maybe just taking longer than some of the bigger kids to adjust at AFL level. I expect many Demonlanders will pleasantly surprised this year.

dafuq

I was the one who brought up Morton in relation to Jones and how he has been training. I made the comparison that both could run to the right spot and make space, but both lack the right skill set to finish it off and make correct decisions. I think mentioning Morton, in that context, was valid. And I am sure you have attended every training session. Those of us with jobs can't be so lucky, but that still doesn't make you the messiah when it comes to best 22. If being a Melbourne fan over the last decade has taught us anything then it's that we can't put much stock in training - how many times has someone improved their skill level or worked hard etc at training, only to be a huge let down come the season proper? Too many times to count in my book. From where I sit, and going by what I've seen of someone like Matt Jones on match day and not during simulated training sessions where there is little pressure, is that if he is in our best 22 then we aren't going forward as a club. By now we should have more than enough talent and skill level on our list that makes Jones, a guy who works hard to get the best out of himself, no more than a depth player. I'd be worried if it were otherwise, but I'm more than happy to have him on our list in that role as his commitment levels have always been terrific. I'm always stoked to hear that the intensity, belief etc is well and truly up and that the standards and expectations have risen. It's fantastic. But to make sweeping statements about players and how much their skill level has risen is going way, way over the top. Like I said, if Matt Jones is in the best 22 then as a supporter I would be a little worried.

Burgoyne is a big stretch...he is as good inside as out, a great natural mid at centre bounce downs and one of the best tackles in the AFL. I think Jack will be a floating forward, pushing up to the wing/hb as required.

Can we drop the Morton chat, otherwise the topic will degenerate into a historical whinge fest again I have attended every training session and have been impressed with the improvement in skill level Whether it will transfer to game day, who knows?, saying that the belief seems to be back Matt Jones is 'liked; by Roos, his place in the team is his to lose, whether supporters like it or not As for the injuries Watts is doing miles and miles of running, assume they are strengthening his core, Vince has a hamstring issue,, being conservative with him, Howe is right on track for the advertised return, ie 2 weeks, not sure with King, leave it at that

Matt Jones is seriously underrated IMO. As was Dunn. And Jetta. I remember reading an article a while back in which Shannon Byrnes and David Rodan both said that Matt Jones was really evasive and had good skills - in short, a nice find. I reckon he'll get a lot of game time this year.

How quickly we forget. Yesterday was the first anniversary of the second NAB Challenge game of the 2014 series, a game played at Etihad Stadium between the reigning AFL premiers Hawthorn and a struggling Brisbane Lions fielding a young, undermanned side in their first game with Justin Leppitsch at the helm. Only 5,003 people turned up and the game was a virtually unwatchable farce as the Hawks hammered them and eased up at the end to win 1.22.13.154 to 0.3.5.23. The game obviously didn't hurt the Hawks because they went on to win back to back flags and it could be argued likewise for the Lions' younger brigade who kicked on as the season unfolded. I think we have a competent enough coach in Paul Roos (who was never one to aim for the heights in the pre season comp anyway) to rely on to get the best for his team in the long run even if circumstances force us to play against a weakened opposition. (Incidentally, today is the anniversary of our first NAB Challenge match under Roos when we beat Richmond by 1.13.11.98 to 1.10.15.84. The score was our highest for the season in all matches).

I think that we should speak to the AFL for permission to play Casey, plus our Rookies and young draft picks against against Essendon in our NAB Cup game!

And if we want dangerous kicks then Matt Jones isn't in our best 22. If he looks to be improving then that's fine, but if you go by his past few seasons then we all know that he is prone to big mistakes and missing simple targets. The modern game demands that players are good kicks of the footy, and he is not one of them. No doubt he breaks the lines and he can run to position, but Cale Morton could do that too. Jones is a handy depth player, but he isn't best 22 in a side that wants to play finals football by the end of 2016.

This should not be forgotten. "MELBOURNE chief executive Peter Jackson has announced his immediate resignation from his role as AFL Victoria chairman. Jackson's energies have been increasingly dedicated to the Demons and he recently extended his contract with the club until the end of next season. Although he was at AFL Victoria in an advisory role, Jackson felt he could no longer continue in his adjoining capacities."

Is it true that the west coast of New Zealand is now on tsunami alert after this?

Competitive match practice was short and sweet, sweet to see come footy again, even at this level. It wasn't a full match practice as only about 14 per side but it was full contact without the players trying to hurt each other. "Quarters" were only about 5 or 7 minutes and at times the ball would just be given to the opposition. Conditions were warm but perfect otherwise. The one that impressed me was Petracca. He looked absolutely comfortable in this company, winning contested possession and seemed to make good decisions. Kicking a little iffy but not bad. Others to do well were, apart from the regulars (Jones N, Lumumba, Grimes, Tyson etc) were M Jones who I didn't have near my 22 but today was good. He has speed, knows how to find it and disposed of it well. He's in the running for a midfield spot. Max Gawn took some took contested marks and Spencer was involved round the ground. I think Jamar, regardless of his seniority, is under pressure for his spot. The reality is that the match was short and it was hard to pick out "best" players. And half were wearing green vests covering their numbers which makes them hard to identify when they are on the other side of the ground. Oh, and special mention to the Toump who I thought was good and involved today. Of course the issue is how many can translate to match day.

I'm interested in people's views on whether and what does the club stand for under the Bartlett/Jackson/Roos regime? Lets's flash back several years to the time when our latest set of troubles as a club were becoming evident. The Daniher years were over, the team was already closing in on rock bottom, we were financially in the red and many in the football world including the AFL hierarchy were claiming that the Melbourne Football Club stood for nothing. We've experienced eight torrid years during which time we have not come anywhere near a 50% win-loss ratio, let alone make finals. There's a whiff of optimism in the air under the Peter Jackson/Paul Roos combination with Glenn Bartlett at the top as club chairman despite some media speculation of tensions about the future of the CEO. This is neither the place for discussing that issue (for which there is a separate thread) or the upheaval within the club in recent years (which has been the subject of heated debate elsewhere). What I'm looking for is what we are doing to set Melbourne apart from the others as a football club. In sporting terms, Melbourne is known for the Melbourne Cricket Ground, the Melbourne Cup, Melbourne Park, the venue for the Australian Open and great golf courses like Royal Melbourne. In recent times we are falling behind sporting clubs like Melbourne Storm and Victory in other football codes in terms of national recognition. The obvious is to start winning games and become a power in the game as we were in the 1950s/60s and establishing interstate rivalries with clubs like Sydney but do we have the vision to achieve this?

We must be feared! Smashing the opposition will get us a long way to achieving that position.

Gives it 100% but skills & disposal are inconsistent & decision making sometimes poor. In another era or in a quality side he would a Ben Beams ie a solid VFL player who plays 6-8 games a year in the AFL.

What a ridiculous thread

That's not true. The 'consensus' was more disappointment that a player of his toughness couldn't make it, and then there was a desire for him to be rookied - the rest is history. No-one on here wishes the players ill-will, and we all hope they can become a consistent Demon. But they have their deficiencies and their bad luck and some players work through them and some don't. And some just shouldn't have been chosen to be AFL players.

I don't read your training reports at all, I read the others. The only reason I commented back to you was your assertion that Jones would have to play himself out of the side, and then a few posts later you said Roos wanted "22 damaging kicks". I was commenting on the irony in this, as if Roos wants this in place (and it's as if you sit down with him at each session and get this out of him the way you talk about it, which you don't, so stop talking as if you do) then M. Jones can't be in the side. At no point have I said players cannot improve. However, guys like Dunn and Jetta have always had a certain level of skill set that has allowed them to improve and stay on the list when others, like a Dan Nicholson, are cut. He was a great trainer, a great runner... and he couldn't improve his kicking and decision making, which meant that the modern game was too much for him. I see the same in Matt Jones. He wouldn't get a run in any side within the Top 14 clubs from last year. He turns the ball over and makes bad decisions on a consistent basis. I'd love to see him somehow improve, and I can handle looking 'foolish' as you put it, but I don't see it happening. Training can only get out of players what they are capable of, and M. Jones has reached his peak for me.

You and me both

You always need to have a balance of outside and inside players - I don't think they are playing the same role really. Watts is a high HF who will be asked to patrol about 80m out and get the ball inside the 50 with his feet. Toumpas may have the same skillset but he won't be able to play a high HF role - he might be on a wing and got through the backline. These two will benefit when the team gets first use of the footy and when we move the ball quickly from defence and get space for them to get into - but these aspects rely on others to get them the ball. We just have to get the footy out of the middle more, and to move it quicker out of defence.

I am with you rjay, I am one of Watts's biggest fans, but he will never be a Burgoyne, I think he is more of a Goddard type (the posts here on Watts bear a striking resemblance to the first 4 or 5 years for Goddard on the Saints boards), a floater who can read the game and fill in either front or back

Jesse Hogan was aweful at kicking dribble shots at goal haha he had three from right in front of me, both Had a good giggle when none even scored, the forth he kicked in the air and straight three the middle and onto Brendan McCartneys scon haha

I still ask the question - what happened to the Essendon Football Club's records of what was injected into the players' bodies during 2011/12? In the absence of a satisfactory response from the players then I am comfortably satisfied that they took TB4 but nobody seems willing to confront this dilemma.

No. If you don't like what a poster has to say don't read it. Sure I have heard that somewhere before.

Take a big picture view of this... A prominent team in a high profile indigenous sport has breached the international doping code - and has attempted to avoid prosecution through a series of challenges to the legality of the investigatory process. Should the independent Board of Commissioners overseeing that sport take a conciliatory view by imposing a series of short term measures designed to preserve the status quo - or draw a line in the sand and say enough is enough - we need to rise above this - we are withdrawing your licence and handing the 18th licence to a fresh new organisation? That sport will lose friends - and money - in the short-term - but in the long-term it will be able to hold its head high as a pure competition which doesn't tolerate cheats.. Ultimately - and certainly if WorkSafe prosecute the organisation - that may well be the decision confronting the AFL. If - as we continue to hear - the other 17 clubs are united in their condemnation of the Little Herd Show - it must be getting closer to the Agenda. The Tassie Bombers hmm....?

Mfc are found not guilty of tanking = bringing the game into disrepute Efc threaten to boycott games unless suspensions for drug infringements are lifted = efc are victims and we need to work with them, even if it potentially hinders the preparation of three other clubs who have been unsure if they would be playing or not.

Spot on. He isn't the only one in that category. The policy of "getting games into them" was nightmarish and did no-one any favours. We move on.

He would have needed to get him from when he was drafted. The Bailey days. I've never known a player to be literally 'given' 50 + free games without having to work for them. It was a bad pick and it was worse development. His time at West Coast backs that theory.

Jetta was my only worry in this trio, but I've changed my mind and apologise to Nev. Matt Jones was to me, symbolic of the new professionalism that was needed around the club - steely resolve and hard work. His biggest downfall was that we didn't have the coaching personnel to lift him to the next level. Now we have.

Oh on the contrary they are fooling thousand upon thousand of sub human scum drug supporters, SPR

he didn't need Roos he needed a testacle donor

Jack, as you might remember, I'm one of the many teachers on Demonland. A much respected colleague of mine once suggested that a school's reputation is usually based on the things that happened 6 - 10 years ago. I think footy clubs are similar. The hard yards that are being made will be recognised in a decade and when, as others have suggested, we start winning, all the things that we want to stand for now will in fact be openly respected by other clubs and their supporters. Well, here's hoping anyway. What we stand for seems like another expression for 'culture'. This appears to be one of the key reasons for Goodwin's appointment. He is big on culture in Roosy's view. Hope he can walk the walk. Then we'll stand for something.

The last CEO says it all The new board doesn't react to media rumours and doesn't leak enough said

Yes. It's called having different opinions.Interesting nonetheless that one supporter will pick up on mis-kicks, mis-handballs, wrong options etc from certain players, whilst another supporter will see something completely different.

I hope your last word was an auto-correct error and you meant to type "tourists". If nothing else, Demonland has probably just been added to the US Government's NSA watchlist.

In case it's not clear, my only agenda is doing what's best for the club, and based on some of the things I know, I doubt bringing in Cook would be that.

I didn't. I basically said that at his current capacity, he's still good, but his lofty reputation isn't warranted. Not now at least. I'm an advocate of not making rash decisions based on reputations forged long ago, ignoring more recent events. The cats have issues and he has been asleep at the wheel in recent seasons, undoing some of his good work. They've managed to hide it somewhat, but the Cats aren't traveling that great and haven't capitalised on their recent onfield successes.

'Machsy' has good contacts at Geelong, I wouldn't write off what he says so quickly. His info in the past has been very reliable. I also understand why parts of the post were probably a bit too hot to leave up.

If only we were playing their C team so we could give it Sylvia.