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Things that annoy me when discussing pre seasons, people who say that missing significant time off a pre season does not hinder performance throughout the year. Anyone who has played football could understand that completing a full pre season allows for much better conditioning rather than missing 6 or so weeks of the pre season as from that point you are just trying to make up ground.With that said, it does not mean that you can not play good games as there are obviously players who are naturally better footballers, but completing a full pre season is the first step to being able to play 22 consistent games of football. Chris Dawes is never going to be the solution to our forward problems, but rather a vital cog that will help provide the backbone of our forwardline. I think he had a par season for himself last year, and the problem was more midfield than anything else. When he was able to find one on one match ups he would win but due to the lack of depth in our forward line he was often found with two opponents. if the ball use is good into our forward line and he is able to use his workrate to move up and down the ground with a single opponent he will be able to deliver us a 40 goal season. (hopefully Hogan and Pedo/Gawn/fitz can play most of the year meaning he will get much less defensive attention)

Ventured down today with two boys in tow (got there late, around 10.00 am). From what I could see, the session was quite demanding. Running sprint drills followed by full field running drills incorporating ball movement from one end of the field to the other and back again. Players were rotating around the field as part of the drill, some players providing defensive pressure. This was followed by more running drills (300 metre runs) followed by timed 70 metre run throughs. Some observations (at the risk of duplicating views already logged): * Max Gawn looks great. He moved well although at times slightly favoured his bandaged knee leg. To be expected I guess. I have high hopes for Max, I think he will be very important for us as long as he keeps reasonably free of injury. He appears bigger and more defined around the shoulders. * Newton moved well and seems to do things with a minimum of fuss. * Brayshaw moves very well, at one stage during the game drill he instinctively blocked a defender to allow the attacking player a clear path through. To me, it showed a good awareness of what was around him. He's still a bit slight but moved very well. * Jack Watts ran laps and also looks to have put on a few pounds generally (just looks more solid. * Max King looks ok when he has the ball, but is last in pretty well all the running drills. He puts in but doesn't seem to have the same tank as other players, There were plenty of other players giving him encouragement during the drills. * Generally, the entire group looked fit and moved well (those that were with the main group). A big thanks to the players after training as well. My boys asked a number of them for autographs as they were leaving the area and they all signed happily and engaged the boys in conversation, even after a strong session. It made my boys day and hopefully keeps them engaged until we start winning games on a consistent basis (makes my job of keeping them interested much easier).

To answer a couple of questions Dawes is still around the 100k mark, he told me, just doing a full pre season has got him fitter A mark is a good mark if it sticks, the technique doesn't matter, Fitzy couldn't do something normally if he tried, now his shoulders are fixed, in all the training sessions I have been to, I have seen him only put one down. same with Dawes, this is a new season forget the past, if they are both dropping marks in June, then you can whinge and I'll join in Other questions Pedo is another who hasn't missed a session, his running and speed are getting better each session, spoke to him pre Xmas is feeling great, looking to earn a place in the team and knows it will be competitive Harmes is back in full training, and looking ok, another who just does everything without fuss, only a rookie but another one to put pressure on for midfield spots As for the photos, the media staff are on Xmas break, hence no photos, if you need a fix go to my Twitter account Demonpk, that's where Georgywho got the Fitzy pic

It sounds like you're trying to find anything you can to put the blame back on Dawes.Dawes inability to gain possession in games last year was a direct result of our delivery inside 50 and the fact that he got far more attention from opposition players. As others have said he was double teamed where possible. And for posters thinking that he'll get to a stage where he is a deadset certainty to clunk anything that comes his way have got another thing coming. It's never been a strength of his, and he'll never have great hands. That's not to say he can't improve them over his career but jesus, do people not understand the value of him for not only our structure but the morale, direction and onfield leadership he brings? It's the very reason we threw a lot of money at him when our club was a basketcase. Not because of his ability to clunk marks. I have no doubt he's contributed to the change we see in attitude on and off field. Not to mention the positive influence he has on every draftee that walks through the door at our club.

He works his backside off. He competes, he chases, offers opportunities and never backs away. He was recruited to be the muscle to back up a star forward. He is a shining example to his team mates as to what effort looks like. I would love him to be Jono Brown or any number of other physically imposing goalkickers but there was never any prospect of that. I am very happy we have him because his approach is exactly what we have lacked and there is now a requirement to replicate it. With a lead forward to support again he will be a significant asset.

I'll defend Dawes becuase he was always recruited as second forward to compliment Clark. Whilst there is room for improvement I'm not too concerned by his output so far.

Such a simplistic generalisation and you know it! When's the last time we had a competitive mid field? When's the last time we had 2 or 3 tall forwards to rely on? Leave him alone.

Just shows what a thoughtless [censored] Frawley is. Could have at least acknowledged the kid's letter. FMD. But good work from the club in the way they handled the matter.

I recall reading something about this some time ago but I just stumbled upon this article in "The Rip", the Queenscliff and Point Lonsdale magazine. Love your commitment Isaac! Also good on the club for sending him the jumper!

And that would be completely correct if written 3 years ago. Nathan has slowly improved every aspect of his game including his decision making. He isn't ever going to be Ablett but to tell you the truth I never thought he would be as good of a Jones that he is. I look forward to seeing how he improves again this season

Getting the footy. Not actually his improvement but more of an improvement in our ability to get it out to him with more ball winning midfielders. Once he has it in his hands he is an elite user of the ball.

Dawes only kicked 30 goals in the pies premiership year. He is not a goal kicking fwd and they knew that when he was recruited. He is just a super competitive large bodied forward which along with Pederson and Hogan now make a more competitive forward line.

Interesting point. Dawes missed considerable training but that is not the essence of my argument. In reply to your derogatory statements I would content that there has been no other forward at the MFC who has spent more time chasing defenders than Dawes. Were you there? The midfield delivery was atrocious. He was not in form (as are disappointing golfers / cricketers / jockeys or soccerists, whatever sport) Your harsh and judgmental tone suggests bravado or more disappointingly no experience at all.

Can't believe Frawley didn't respond. Pathetic effort especially from a member of the leadership group. Good riddance.

Just have to buy in on the Dawes debate. So much emphasis on his marking... hardly a sentence on his defensive running. I watched Dawes when he didn't have the ball in 2014 and his willingness to chase and run the other way was inspirational. Little wonder he is highly regarded by a coaching community that demands running both ways. Watch Dawes at training and you will be watching a running machine! Yes, he leads full pace and long leads (hitting the ball at pace makes marking just that little bit more difficult than in yesteryear). I have witnessed Dawes run from wing to wing to try to put pressure on an opposition player who was 50 metres clear when other demons had given it away as an impossible task. Not only did Dawes pass his team mate, but he managed to run the other way when we regained the ball. He'll go alright when we become a more attacking proposition!

I can see where you're coming from, I think, but the first time Grimes kicks out on the full, or Dawes drops a simple mark, or Watts goes to ground when he doesn't have to, it will go out the window. Players build a reputation based not only on their strengths.

I don't think anyone would dispute Dawes' work rate or the fact he attracted more attention from the opposition due to a lack of forward depth. But there was a stretch of games where frankly he couldn't catch a cold. He was clumsy and largely ineffective in many matches, and that surely can't constitute a par season. He's better than what he produced en masse in 2014. As he showed against Adelaide, he is in fact capable of taking a game by the scruff of the neck. I think we're all looking forward to what he can do with another genuine KPF alongside him.

It's ironic that we are debating the effect of a uninterrupted preseason while discussing Dawes - because he has had a massive pre-season that has completely altered his body shape, I am really looking forward to seeing what he can do with that rig.

exactly - he hardly ever gets caught now, except for those ones where you are blanketed a quarter of a second after you take possession and they call it 'prior' (the ones nobody in the whole country likes to see paid but they keep happening regularly)

I said the addition of another key post, not the addition of no.1 key forward. Jesse Hogan will play as a key position forward, not as a flank or a small forward and Dawes will benefit from having another one in the forward 50 with him. Im talking about footballers in general, they would not say that Nathan Jones has not had a full pre season because missing a week will not have a detrimental result on his pre season, but rather players who miss upwards of a month, whether it be in December or January will feel a negative impact throughout the year. Nowdays forwards (like Dawes) need to play on defenders (like McDonald) and if they miss large amounts of pre season they are unable to work over their opponents. Whilst some players are naturally fitter than others the fact that a player misses a large chunk of pre season is clearly going to not be a benefit to their season, or why would they complete pre seasons? In modern football players are much more dependent on fitness, rather than ability alone and it is less likely that in any position without a full pre season that players would be expected to complete a consistent 22 game season. (internal expectations rather than those of supporters such as you and I)

I did that during the season. I'm all fessed up. But I will repeat just for you. Sorry Pedo I was wrong.

Appreciate your point but how grateful are we mere mortals that the more stressful moments of our professional lives are not immortalized on film/video/digital/whatever. I am not saying he is Jesus Christ but that he is a good citizen and we have lacked good experienced citizens recently. With the number of young players we have at the club Roos has clearly pursued the dual purpose of worthy and useful experience and talented youth. I suspect he was very happy that Dawes was at the club.

Are you sure? You may well have insight that I do not but my understanding at the time of his recruitment was that he would do for Clarke as he had done for Cloke without the the forward line rucking. I do not believe he is an "easy option" player in the way he has applied himself. I agree that a greater output is desirable. He came off a limited pre season last year so how about we give him a little grace, if only for effort, and wait to see what full preparation, a competent midfield and forward support will bring.

Can I add that he won me when he chased a defender to close to the wing and, upon returning, had words with the forwards who had stood by and spectated rather than make the effort to do their job and intervene. I willingly concede that his form was not great this year but form at no stage diminished effort. How many players in any sport can you say that about? As we progress he will be a significant asset. And we will progress.

He was not recruited as a defensive forward. He more often than not backs away rather than leading up at the play. He needs to make the play not take the easy option. Having Cloke at Collingwood he sees himself as a 2nd stringer, well he needs to get over this and impose himself on the game consistently.

Couldn't agree more 'P-man'. I see him at his best a much better player, I actually think he doesn't himself and besides all his bluff and bluster he needs to accept that he can play good footy. It's time for him to do it on a consistent basis and earn his money.

Instead of hopping into Frawley, let's applaud the Club for the way that they handled it! In the end the Club got some good positive publicity and created a 'feel-good' story!

To be fair mate, if he did hold the club responsible at all, there is no way he would mention it to a supporter

Hawthonr.

The boys trained really well all flying, over heard some of the boys from Collingwood boys at cafe saying how HL told them that the Dees are really flying and not just what clubs all say, but that he has never seen so many players flying that time of year, said that watts is more competitive then what most people think, all so said Tyson reminds him of a young Dame swan.

As frustrating as Dawes can be at times with his inability to take a mark that isn't a chest mark, his leadership and guidance alone make him worth every bloody penny we spent.

That article is just a Demonland myth.

I really don't know what this means. When was it unprofessional? Prior to Misson? Prior to Roos? Hogan himself said he felt the back problem before the Geelong game. I'm not suggesting the medical fitness staff got it wrong, just responding to your question. With Dawes, however, there was an admission that he was rushed and came back too early (I think in 2013). It's all an inexact science, so I'm not sure why we need to pretend that because "it's all professional now" there won't be mistakes.

The two AIS boys are Josh Schache who is from my way. He is the son of late Lawrence Schache who played for Fitzroy. 196cm 90kg key forward who is expected to go top 10 in this years draft. An exciting prospect. One to watch. And Kieran Collins from Dandenong Stingrays. 192 key forward or back.

Main group consisting of 36 players and 2 big B#$%stards from the AIS Chunk missing as mentioned. Trenners not there of course. All the Pre Xmas Rehab group is now on legs. Alex Neal Bullen had a slight mishap in the gym. He has a small bandage on his knee but nothing too serious. He is training with the rehab group as is Stretch. Tom McD was grabbing at his lower spine and Left Hip. He continued with the session. Jamar is looking great. Ben Newton did some nice work in the circle work Dunny was very vocal and moved from set groups to set groups trying to encourage them to keep it up. Grimes was impressive (yes I said it) Petracca was really putting in and is now understanding the training routine. Fitzy is making all posts a winner. He knows what he has to do to get a game. Toumpas has turned his good running into a great link man running off the HBF and delivering the ball to HFF other side of the ground. Very impressive. Saty will do more reports along with pics.

Pointless comparison as both players went before 23. The only way to really compare is to look at who was still there are 23 and who was picked around that pick. GWS used pick 23 to get one of the biggest shocks of the draft, Patrick McKenna the Captain of the Aus U19's Cricket Team. Not a big background in footy. Good luck to them if their punt works but it wouldn't have been our pick. Pick 24 was used by GWS to get Jack Steele. He was developed in their Academy and as far as I'm concerned at this stage certainly doesn't show any more than ANB. I'd be confident that most pundits would have picked ANB ahead of him. Pick 25 North Daniel Nielson, who looks like a reasonable prospect as a 193cm defender but is going to take 3-4 yrs to develop whereas Frost already has that development and has shown he can perform at this level. I'd take Frost over Nielson any time. Pick 26 Bulldogs Toby McLean a 179cm midfielder. We don't need any more short midfielders. This is just the first few picks around the mark. It's no wonder several of the Phantom Drafts in the press had ANB ahead of these players. So starting with Frost who also looks better than any of them especially as a potential ready made replacement for Frawley and then getting ANB and Oscar looks like a no brainer, to the extent that every pick in the draft is a gamble, these picks look outstanding results. There's really no point in saying we'll only know in a few years because that is irrelevant to the decisions that had to be made in the here and now in the trade period and the draft. Was the decision to make the trade the right decision at the time. Surely you'd have to say yes. Any of the single players we would have picked at 23 might be a fail but as others have said to get the three we got is spreading the risk so it's likely at least one or more will be great pick ups.

Better still, why not mosey across to Collingwood's training and give them a dose?

As is the case with every other Demons supporter, I have suffered through this deep trough of defeats, mis-starts and off-field disasters that have besieged us in recent years and, like every other supporter I arrive in the new year with a sense of hope that this season will be different. I look at training reports and the media and look for any glint of gold amongst the dross to indicate that there is hope. Well this year I am going to approach it differently. I am looking at the team as a clean slate. No history for each player. what you see is what you get. No more "so-and-so needs to do more of this" "What's-his-name can't do that" "Blah blah blah cost us a game last year and he will do it again." I will judge them afresh from their performance at training, in pre-season games and in each game they play be it for the Dees or Casey. This is their second year under Roos, there are a bunch of new players and the team structures and game plan are bedded down more than last year. I want to give them all the opportunity to convince me that they are players I want to watch in my team. It will be hard to set aside the prejudices that the many losing seasons have ingrained in me but I will try. I will still judge any player harshly if they do not step up when required, I will still criticize if they make mistakes but I will not let the players history colour my view of them this year. All are first years players as far as I am concerned. Any one else want to give this a go?

Let's hope that in 2015 Dawes can shed the concrete hands that has plagued him at Melbourne and Collingwood. He does most other things well but we can't afford a CHF that is unable to mark overhead.

What do you mean none of us know? We watch him every week. We watch the ball come and he drops it. No "assumptions" or "folklore" to be had when you are witnessing it with your own eyes!

In the past Frawley has been shown giving back to kids so I wouldn't hammer him on this one. Let's be a bit charitable and take the positives out of the club coming good here rather than slamming 'Chip'.

Up on the Coast with WJ. We should be able to pick the opening match Dees team after a short discussion.

oh gee sorry

FMD! I would have to go off the grog for at least 3 days to understand the above stats. The odd part of that is that i passed stats at uni to level 2. FMD that's scary.....

Great effort young fella. A reply was the least Frawley could have managed, weak effort imo. BTW I remember the Spittle family from Smeaton just out of Ballarat.

How about: Thanks mate for your great support. I really appreciate what the club means to you. Hopefully there are good times ahead for the Dees. Best Wishes Chip

And his $15 back! This kid will be a Demon for life!

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2014-10-01/hogan-aims-for-round-one-debut Quote: Hogan said his back injury came to a head when he played for Melbourne against Geelong in the club’s second NAB Challenge match in Alice Springs, back in February. “It was a bit sore going into the game, but the physios insisted it was just tightness. I was training as though I was feeling OK and I was a bit aware of it, but it affected me during the game in the third quarter, when I tried to kick it,” he said. “My whole body seized up and I’ve gone ‘this isn’t tightness’. I basically couldn’t run in the last quarter and then I woke up the next morning and I was basically the same – I was just stiff. “I couldn’t really walk and I sat on the plane for four hours and got up and was no good. Then I finally got the scan and was told that it was going to be four to five [weeks] depending – but everyone’s body is different. It seems being told he was ok to play, playing on in the 4th qtr, then sitting on a plane for 4 hours doesn't signal good medical management. Hopefully, they listen more carefully these days. Also, I recall a few posters noted in preseason training reports last year that Hogan appeared to have a back problem...vaguely recall someone jumped into his back accidently at training. Anyway, the past is past. The extra year off has helped him mature and good for him. Call me a naysayer if you wish. No doubt he will be a champ but right now, I would like to see him get thru a string of VFL/AFL games unscathed.

You're

Our first five opponents (their previous two weeks where applicable) and location: 12th Gold Coast - MCG 16th Giants (St Kilda - Away) - Canberra 10th Adelaide (North - Home, Collingwood - Away) - Adelaide 8th Richmond (Bulldogs - Home, Brisbane - Away) - MCG 4th Fremantle (West Coat - Home, Sydney - Home) - MCG We need to win early to provide momentum and to offset and perhaps reduce late season form fluctuation. Last year, finishing 17th, we beat 13th, 10th, 8th and 7th placed teams. We lost to Gold Coast by 8 points and let GWS run away with the last quarter after being 7 points down at 3/4 time. Our defense was strong last year - in scores against we ranked 11th. I'm confident that the defense will continue to do its job and be better aided by recruits, our midfield and some increased scoreboard pressure from our forwards. Much has rightly been made of our inability to score consistently. Previously it was our inability to get the ball forward. Dawes' absence in round one will not help, but his presence thereafter will be invaluable. Garlett and Hogan (amongst the regulars) should be able to capitalise on Kent and Lumumba bombs and a more mature midfield delivery. Watts precision will be required and Bail, with eyes lowered, will give the team ample score assists. How far can we go? I'll be disappointed if we don't win eight games but if I see the application, the intent and the team capability improvements continue from last year I'll be at least comforted that steady progress in being made.