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Was there again, will be posting pics on my Twitter Demonpk, including Garlo photo bombing my picture of Jeff Garlett. Quick rundown warmup, run, kick, box, run, handball, grapple, kick, run, handball, box, run, kick, run. Asked Dom Tyson about the work he seems to be doing with the harness, his finger injury stops him from joining in the boxing drills, so is working on his explosive speed away from stoppages when the others are boxing. The whole group bar Nev Jetta was out today, Nev is about to become a father for the second time, got a phone call at the club this morning ... interestingly Tapscott was a no show again. Rehab group as such, Gawn, Spencer, Terlich and Vince, joined by Bail and JKH (who has his knee strapped). Toumpas put Nathan Jones to the sword when they were running (sprinting) in one of the drills, spoke to him afterwards, is in a really good place finally. The new boys were all there, HL, Garlett, Newton (who is slightly bigger than Michie, so quite a size for a midfielder) and Billy Stretch, his Mum and Dad (who I believe played a bit) were there as well. Another gruelling session that went for over 3 hours, Shannon Byrnes is his new role as coach was in attendance as well.

Thanks for the report saty. Interesting to read the bit about Toumpas. From memory he was looking the goods last pre-season too, even snagged a bag in the intra-club match, but then was out of the side by round 3 after a couple of so-so performances. Would love to see him make a good fist of it next year. Probably more so than any other player. A great kid who has been unfairly maligned so early in his career.

I rate King. He told us Neeld was no good very early with his "mature bodied game plan for a bunch of kids". He was spot on whilst swimming strongly against the tide. There are a few home truths in his article. He tells us our last 8 weeks (which is a fair slab of the season) was in fact no better than our last year under Neeld/Craig. I for one didn't realize that. He tells us we are the highest stoppage team with the worst stoppage numbers. Surely that's concerning. He tells us we are the worst tackling team in the competition. Rather ironic given Roos' ethos and scathing criticism of Richmond's failure to tackle in previous years. Most of the world including DL have unquestioning faith in Roos. King is now questioning that and is one of the first to do so. I don't expect him to be Nostradamus about next year, in fact I'd think less of him if he tried to be. I happen to be in the King camp and have for some time questioned Roos' game plan and methodology. I'm not saying it's wrong, just not accepting as most do here, that "is Roos is good". The reality is that the last third of last season, a time when we should have been adapting to the Roos game plan better, was as bad as we've ever been. That's a worry. I thought it was a good short form article by King, let's face it, he's not writing a thesis he's writing a article to the footy reading public about MFC. Pretty good I would have thought.

So when Roos talks about draft picks not being the savior of the club and needing time to develop and find their feet you are obviously not in agreement. Go back through the drafts - go back through the 80 odd players taken every year ( from TAC only) and tell me how many each year are ready to go without the need for development. You can mention your Wines but they are a rarity. It seems to all and sundry that Brayshaw is a lock for one of our picks and according to some is "ready to go round one " - I will watch him with interest to see exactly how he performs in his first year. I'm with you Roosey - lets not look to the draftees to shoot us up the ladder - we need our 22 year old plus players to step up to the plate.

He's only 26. 5 years is not a big call. It's actually a very easy call. We lose Jones and we lose an enormous part of this club. The deal needs to get done. Don't mess around with this.

Unfortunately it really tells us nothing, gives us a bunch of stats and leaves the answers until 2015. In other words he doesn't really have a clue whether Roos is on track or not and will wait to use hindsight at the end of next season.

There's a difference between trying to get a young skillful list to play stoppage "strength" football and what Neeld was trying to do - he made it very clear from day one that the list he inherited was well behind the team he left Collingwood in every facet, especially experience, the levels of strength and physical fitness and ability to run (and do it both ways) necessary to cope with the style of game that football was evolving towards. It's been mentioned here many times that Dave Misson developed a fitness plan specifically to raise fitness levels in steps over three years to cater for this without causing young players to break down. Neeld ultimately failed to achieve success because he couldn't get the players to buy into his programme. The group was fractured, we suffered through some significant injury and personal issues among the playing group, some weren't particularly committed to the cause and others simply weren't capable of reaching even the most modest standards. We can see that Paul Roos' has also stressed the need for defensive skills, the ability to run etc. and this is borne out by the players who were delisted recently and by the types he is recruiting to the club. Fast skillful football game plans only worked against certain opposition and were no longer in vogue. They were not going to win us a flag then and won't do so any time soon. If King was saying that Neeld was trying to get his team to play strength "stoppage" football from the get go, then he didnt even understand what Neeld was trying to do. What he did recognise early on was that Neeld's plan wasn't going to work with the personnel he had at his disposal at the time but I suspect that the problems with the list were already systemic, the result of poor recruiting, poor player development and a lack of on field leadership over a long period of time. There were far too many players who were limited physically and mentally and whose pre seasons in 2012 and 2013 were embarrassing, especially in terms of their endurance running but in other aspects as well. Neeld was on a hiding to nothing from day one at the club and it was his inability to bring the team together and communicate a coherent message that ultimately brought him undone but the players under him weren't really up to it. The fact that Roosy has already turned over 50% of the list is testament to that. As far as the current David King article is concerned, it's not bad when measured up with his usual standard work. We know the club faces a challenge to move up the ladder and we also know that the combination that runs out in round one next year will be significantly different to what it was 18 months ago. Where we go from here is anyone's guess.

Re. the Toump, you need to remember that he was taking a fair while to recover from the hip surgery as well. He probably spent most of last year frustrated as hell that his body wasn't doing what he knows it can do. Long term rehabs from things like that can drive you up the wall because you feel fine, but nothing works quite right. If he's now getting his run back then it's a good sign that his body is back and working the way it should. Give him a full pre-season and we should see some good footy from the kid.

I think we can improve more than marginally but we need the stars to align for once. Two years ago Port Adelaide shocked the football world with its resurgence and much of that was due to its football department being very good at executing well laid coaching and fitness plans that brought the best out of the list. Most of it was hard work but they were also blessed by having an almost full list at their disposal. Can anyone remember when we could say that about Melbourne in round one of any season? So if the stars align it could be 10 wins and possibly more.

Heard today he is requesting 5 year 3.5m. Club and player not far away, Term of deal is more the sticking point. Negotiations are continuing, but positive

I just hope Todd Viney doesn't quit to go coach him

I thought the comment from Evans regarding his not knowing the identity of the 34 due to privacy reasons as beyond laughable but blatantly a lie. As is the AFL...as is the Football operations manager , wouldnt know who they were...ffs That whole mob is corrupt

The emblem looks good in high resolution situations, but the basic version of it used on clothes and in some printing is terrible. This is where the monogram is useful.

There is no basis at all to expect WADA to "chicken out". Their record in enforcement of the rules is impeccable especially in the face of very substantial pressure on local affiliates like ASADA and USADA. They have had no hesitation in enforcing the international law where their local affiliates squibbed it either through corruption or political pressure. This after all is why WADA was set up the way it was because there was the perception that particularly in the "Third World" international rules would not be enforced transparently. Ironic isn't it, that first world Australia has been the most public miscreant but still lectures the rest of the world how to behave.

I love how whenever a journo writes a less than glowing piece on the club, someone will always pop up with the old "I hate so and so, has absolutely no idea etc". Always good for a laugh.

I think we'll be taking McCartin if he is available. It will back up the clubs theory of 1 player not being the savior of the club ie Hogan.

Ha. I get it. When they are banned retrospectively for a number of matches from a certain date, the 2 International Rules games will count towards the total so they can play regular games 2 weeks earlier. (I know that doesn't make any sense, just reacting to how dishonestly I perceive the AFL operates.)

Agree! The credibility of WADA is on the line here, the Dons had the perfect "cheater template" and it must hammered flat! How many clubs, coaches and players would just love to get on a program with so much upside (drugs that will enhance performance for years) with the risk of only a few months suspension? If the AFL have any foresight at all they should save WADA time and effort and apply the maximum penalties to the players and the club!

BB, for a quality poster you do yourself a disservice with these references to "Demonland groupthink" for any opinion you happen to disagree with. On last season's form, Grimes is no longer CLEARLY best 22. He is on the periphery, and that is an opinion shared beyond Demonland. The reality is that he will be there in Round 1, but he didn't do much to justify his spot in 2014.

Newton is in exactly the same position as Michie and Riley last year in that he's a youngish mid who couldn't crack it for a game with his club. Most expected too much from Michie and Riley and I'm just expecting Newton to be a possible mid at this stage. The reality is that if we are to progress we need a couple of the young mids to step up but at this stage I don't think Michie or Riley showed they'd be anything more than dime a dozen mids. I hope but don't expect more of Newton. My hopes lie with Salem, JKH and Toumpas along with any mids from pick 2 and 3 this year. But those guys are young so they will be useful class in a few years. Those trying to find a spot for Grimes need to do two things. The first is to recognized at he is clearly best 22 despite DL groupthink and the other is to remember that Lumumba played midfield/wing for Collingwood and Roos is on record as saying he's pleased to have a big bodied mid added to the squad for next year. IMO Lumumba will play in the midfield.

Credz to a guy of the Fb page This is apparently next years clash guernsey and WOWOWOWOW

Not only should we not stuff up and go ahead and secure the skipper to a fair deal given his status at the club and his contributions to it over his time as a player, but we should also move forward and become the predators when it comes to free agents and out of contract players from other clubs. I believe we've already been proactive with Dangerfield (and will continue to follow him up along with Tex Walker and Rory Sloane) but we should approach this bloke ~ Contract can wait, says young Giant Shiel. We've been the targets for far too long.

Maybe Richmond should subcontract their medical people, might be a good earner on the side.

Thanks rjay. It's true internal expectation can be as crippling as external criticism. I just hope like hell he doesn't read demonland to garner wisdom or advice. As I said before I really want to see this kid to do well.

I can't believe we missed out on this bloke, especially after this - Kristian Jaksch navicular injury

YES it is Jack Viney and Jones punching on!I was standing right behind them and they were going hell for leather!Hells bells.

I am absolutely certain they will. Unless they don't.

If this is anybody but [everyone who has done this sort of thing a thousand times before] you're stealing my bit.

The flame is actually the eternal flame, the represent the players who lost their lives at war.

Way better than blease jnr

Umm they were not good enough?

you could well be right. This is a disgrace if it is allowed to eventuate. WADA must overrule Performance enhancing drugs must be completely unacceptable and banned under any circumstance. Otherwise some clubs will take the risk in pursuit of glory.

No, I think Dill is worse. He will now wait and gauge public opinion then make a decision. If public opinion is too negative I guarantee you they won't play, maybe an injury problem or they have decided it better not to play whatever. The real reason will be that this AFL runs by poll.

Mate for a start Frank Grimes shouldn't be Captain. He is lucky to get a game imo So Jonesy deserves a lot more than Grimes. But from what i gather he wants 5 years. Now on the surface that is a very fair call. But he is an inside mid who gets bashed around every game. So 5 years is a big call for the club so i can see why talk have slowed. I want him to stay, but not at any cost.

Pay him what he asks, he has earned it.

Shown as follows "10. Tuesday single figures." Should IMO be 10. Tuesday single figures. Make sense?

I guess this concept has moved to penalties for alleged drug cheats

Because Roos said he would play more in the midfield with us. Yes I did say Tyson would be in the top 5 mids in the comp and I think I will not be far off the mark. His polling in the Brownlow shows he is rating pretty well already that and also opposition coaches putting a tag on him.

This can't be right, I thought Jack Watts is the only player to be taken with the number one draft pick?

I remember Watson going on TV and saying he was injected with a banned substance. How he will be allowed to play for Australia and retain his Brownlow medal is beyond me.

Absolutely spot on. Other than not being a great coach, Neeld and most other inexperienced coaches lack the credibility that experience and success brings, that makes it harder to get things done. The other thing is Roos and Neeld could give you the exact same message and elicit a completely different reaction. The Jones contract is extremely important, not only because he is a crucial player but he is our leader and captain and it will have a huge bearing on the psyche of the players when negotiating with the MFC. Like all good clubs we will be trying to ask our loyal players to sign on at a discount in the interests of group success. It's a very hard sell at the moment. A lot hinges on this deal, we must keep Jones, but we need to try to find a way to not pay overs. If Jones gets overs we will struggle to keep the better players on our list. If he takes one for the team others will follow. That has nothing to do with whether he deserves it or not.

You can criticise Neeld for lots of things but you must not have been listening when you suggest that Neeld kept mentioning how far behind the eight ball (mixed metaphor) we were as opposed to Roos injecting confidence and belief. I don't think a week went by that Roos didn't mention how "far behind the pack" we are. Roos has been far more vocal about how poor we have been for many years than Neeld ever was. The major difference is nobody believed or took Neeld seriously whereas Roos commands respect when he speaks.

Dead set. Is this necessary?

The difference between WADA and the AFL here is that WADA's integrity is not on the line - not unless they make it so. The AFL are just about discredited now, no matter what they do, in many people's eyes. WADA remains WADA, unless they chicken out and tell the world that they are actually toothless in the face of a big player. (Smiling with false teeth?) AFL - integrity in tatters. WADA - the watchdog, though with credibility there to be destroyed, if they so choose. I'm waiting and watching. C'mon, self-respect, fellers, please! (According to Kierkegaard, if you dare, you may lose your footing for a time, but if you don't dare you lose yourself.)

So, you want him paid the same as Grimes...3 B & F's, good brownlow polling, hardly ever missed a game thru injury? Really? Really? Nothing against Grimes but they aren't in the same salary bracket, IMO. $10m & 40+ players = average $230 - 240k each. Obviously a lot of young players on less (there always will be) allows other players to be paid more. You do the maths on what we can afford. (Especially if we heavily front-end his contract into 2015 when we have heaps of salary cap available). GC would be circling for a replacement for Ablett as their seniour midfielder. They will give him 5 years and top $. Jonesy should be paid whatever it takes to stop him even thinking about a FA offer.

The Luke Beveridge appointment as coach of the Western Bulldogs struck me as having some similarities with the appointment of Mark Neeld at Melbourne a few years ago. A young untried coach with a record of multiple premierships at local level, more flags as assistant at AFL level and a team split by dissension and internal power plays. But the first answer to the first interview Beveridge gave after his appointment does not bode well ~ Luke Beveridge believes timing is right for Western Bulldogs coach-appointment

I agree with Denham. I feel so cheap. Pay the man.

I know we're planning to land a big fish next year, but let's first focus on extending the contract of our best player first. If Jones leaves due to money (not because he wants the cheap way to success like Frawley, Rivers or Clark) then whatever achievements credited to Roos and Jackson so far would be flushed down the dunny. He deserves to be over paid. No other mfc player does. He sure as hell deserves more than Dawes, and it's an embarrassment that he's not.

Just a few observations from training. -I won't talk about the drills really. They moved from close in drills with handball to move further and further out to longer kicking drills. They were no real forwards, mids, backs, everyone did everything. -I was quite impressed with frost. He is tall and big and a very good mover. Had a few kicked to him too high and jumped and stretched to pull them in at the highest point. His kicking appears ok. -H looks fit and in all the drills quite sharp considering it was his first session. He does look very different in red and blue. He really has great agility and in all the drills moved quickly. I'm happy to have a player like him playing for us. Between drills he got around to a lot of different players for a quick few words. I liked that he was really focusing on the younger guys that haven't been around long like king and hunt. -king does look bigger but still has a way to go, especially when standing next to frost. He does appear to be a very good kick. He is well down the pecking order but hopefully he has a good run with injury and has a good year. -Kent looks fit. Something that really stood out to me was he did a clearance drill with just viney and Goodwin working on body positioning. It was just these 3 whilst others were doing other things. He also after all the drills finished did 300m sprints with McDonald whilst everyone else went to the Anderson st hill. Kent is definitely preparing for some movement to the midfield. To me, you can really see that roosy is true to has word in developing our young players properly. Viney not spending all his time in the centre, Kent being groomed properly, seasoned bodies being brought in to protect the kids. -I'm a huge jetta fan and have been for years. I have chatted to him quite a few times over the years and he is pretty honest about himself. I just like the way he plays. I'm a fan of his aggression. Chatted to him again today. He is getting bigger in the legs and is stronger through the core. I don't believe he is resting on his laurels after getting back on the list. I hope he has a huge year. -gawn is a huge man and looks bigger than last year. He did the rehab stuff and then did timed runs of various distances and laps. - lots not there today including jamar, jones, Jkh, Dunn, garlett, spencer and I didn't see tappscott. Was a few others as well.

IMO He is an average footballer who takes the occasional unbelievable Mark. I think at the right price he is a keep. However in today's AFL he is trade able for the right deal. It is just the world we now live in, I don't like this world However I have no choice.