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Trengove is quality, his body wasn't right last year. The thing with Jack he tried to set the example as per Mark Neeld's instructions, he was so focused on doing the hard defensive acts that he forgot how to get the footy. He will be a totally different player next year.

I had a few mates who were at the Lavazza tent in the birdscage at Derby Day last week. Franklin turned up late in the day and demanded entry and they refused to let him in. He was hammered. One of my mates asked some guy there why they didn't let him in. He apparently said 'never again. He was out of control last year. He kept dropping his bag of coke in front of everyone and couldn't give a stuff. Very uncool behaviour'. Make of that what you will - only hearsay obviously, but it stacks up. Sydney's recruited a little ripper in Buddy. He'll be coaching Auskick in Bondi for the last 6 years of his contract.

Cale Morton's facial expression, Jordan Gysberts' posture, Matthew Bate's freckles. This kid has already delivered as much as three first-round draft picks. Well done Melbourne Football Club!

I don't follow the kids but I do read the so called expert opinions on them. It seems fairly consistent opinion that this is an extremely shallow draft and with that in mind the club may be happy to go in with pick 9 and 40 plus Clisby. They see more value in Riley than what would be available at pick 57. We then focus on some developing talls and another mature midfielder to fill our rookie spot. The PSD is almost dead, the introduction of delisted free agents will kill this. Have to love what the club has done, they identified a massive weakness and have added Tyson, Michie, Vince, Cross and Riley, all of the sudden we have midfield depth and hopefully 4 young players that can be very good midfielders in Tyson, Toumpas, Viney and Pick 9.

Why? Do you get extra points for being right? Do you get to stand up to thundering applause at the end of the year as you proclaim "I told them to keep a lid on it" Man, if I can't dream in November then I'm walking away from this sad club, because November dreams are as close as I get from footy joy these days. You don't want to play make believe, then don't. But don't [censored] on the rest of us because we do.

separated at birth ??

This is one of the most absurd threads I have ever seen on demonland, because someone here heard from a friend that Hannebery is upset about taking a paycut then the strongest (or certainly one of) cultures in the competition is failing? And also John Longmire is a rubbish coach, despite the fact that he managed to win a premiership in 2012 when all experts at the start of the year thought that they didn't have a good enough list. Yet some supporters here- who have just endured a season of 100 point loses week after week- would be worried if they were a swans supporter? Shane Mumford did not walk out on the club, he was pretty much pushed out. Pyke overtook him this year as a ruckman this year, so they no longer needed Mumford as much as they did when they lured him away from Geelong on a very lucrative pay packet. Mumford coming out of contract would have gone a long way towards the swans being able to throw so much at buddy. Jesse White walked out on the club? They tried to move him on last year for Kurt Tippet even though they were able to get Tippet for free (as they eventually did). Jesse realised there was no room for him in a side boasting Tippet and Franklin and realised after being worst afield in the swans finals loss to Hawthorn it was probably time he left for a side that might require his services. Jed Lamb leaving is a case of a player not good enough to get regular games in a top side and offered a contract by GWS worth far more than any other club could afford to offer such a young player, let alone Sydney who has a host of other stars who they have to keep. Andrejs Everitt is case of a fringe player in a top side who left because weaker sides were willing to offer him more than his current team. A burden of being a top side and something that happens to all elite sides. On the Buddy Franklin deal, they offered one of the best payer's in the comp a massive contract, how else are you supposed to attract someone of his quality? Yes the reported deal does seem over-the-top, but I imagine the deal is rear-loaded and Sydney is counting on the salary cap to increase over the next few years, not to mention he will be on the veterans list for the second half of the contract. Not only does getting Buddy give them probably the best forwardline in the comp, but the money you get from marketing Buddy would be absolutely huge. Sydney don't have the luxury of being a Victorian team so they have to come up with more creative moves like this in order to stay ahead (both on and off the field), they've been pulling "crazy" stunts like this for years and as a result, they have remained ahead of most of the competition, despite the obvious disadvantage of being located in NSW. So Sydney manage to attract one of the best players in the comp, keep all their other stars, yet because they lose a few players they don't need and someone on demonland heard from a friend that Hannebery was upset, their culture is cracking? The reason I'm so happy, and the reason everyone else is so happy about getting Paul Roos is because hopefully it means we become more like Sydney.

Operating net profit of $73m, up 13.4% on 2012, on revenue of $4.3b Some of the brightest minds in the country on the board. They're good for it.

I am all for taking Freeman. What we need most now are midfielders who not just get the footy in close but also SPREAD !! I cannot emphasize enough how much we need our footballers to spread to receive the ball. That has been the most obvious way that our disposal differentials are so far apart from the other clubs. It's all good to recruit mids to get the football from the centre square but we need our players to run and spread.

And what view is that? That he would like to convince Byrnes to retire and break a two-year contract with the club? There are always going to be players that posters don't want to be at the club: Munga doesn't want Watts, Ben-Hur doesn't want McKenzie, Everyone doesn't want Nicholson, but it gets tedious when posters constantly refer to the removal of a player. He is contracted for another year, I hope he can contribute next season as we still don't have a small forward on the list besides him. He came for very little, he doesn't cost much, and yet he draws ire outside of what he deserves. Time to move on?

On the Adelaide board at bigfooty there is a popular school of thought that this guy was delisted with plans to have him rookied as he recovers. The Dees may have thrown a spanner in the works by offering a spot on thier primary list.

Might be easier to find people who think Nicho can tag. Tagging obviously involves a tremendous physical ability, you have to have the top line fitness and work ethic to run stride for stride with the elite midfielders and the speed to match it with them some what (although depending on opponent speed is not nearly as important). But you also have to have the footy smarts to be able to read the play, to have very good physical strength (if tagging a strong inside player) and courage. Nicholson fits the first categories but is a mile off in the second categories.

We are all too aware of the trauma a broken leg can bring, hope the kid is the next Barlow not the next Blease.

Well, I'm taller than a couple of the current QB's so why not! There's at least a few small considerations to take into account though ... like fear and ability! (I'd be good at handing off to a RB - that seems easy enough) Anyway, here's my take on things after today's games (for what it's worth) ... The NFC North is Detroit's to lose now. The Lions schedule isn't too difficult and they should be able to get to at least 10 wins (that might be enough after taking into account their record within the division) 49ers losing opens things up a lot in the NFC. Seattle should win that Division now unless they lose @ the 49ers and lose another 1 or 2 games. I reckon they'll end up 13/3 at worst. They could easily get home field advantage all the way through to the Super Bowl and the 49ers might have to do it on the road (assuming they make the play-offs) The Panthers played very well and that win will strengthen their case for a play-off berth. Saints were impressive at home and kept their hopes alive for a no.1 seed in the NFC. Dallas were disappointing ... the Eagles are within striking distance after today's win (I've no doubt mozzed them now, last week I talked up the Titans - oops!) Bengals had their chances (that 'Hail Mary' was an absolute classic) Still reckon Cinci will win the AFC North though. 9 wins might do it. How about those Rams? Who would have picked that result? (apart from Gorgoroth) The other big news is Peyton's ankle/knee (?) ... as most are aware by now, he copped a late hit to the lower leg (from a player leading with his helmet) He wasn't happy at the press conference and mentioned that he was in a decent amount of pain. Next week's game against KC has a lot riding on it and he'll need to come up otherwise Denver might fall 2 games back in that Division. Even the Jags won - whooda thunk-it

Tom Gillies is a good pick up......

In forum land you are either a gun or a spud.

A clearance machine? I know most of you have been traumatised by Neeld, but please stop lauding every Roos pick a champion.

This and the Michie trade indicate that Roos prefers speculative 21 year olds over speculative 18 year olds. I know nothing about Riley so I have no idea if he'll be any good, but the rationale seems reasonable.

With Sylvia leaving Melbourne's redhead stocks were becoming dangerously low.

Ill just take this thread one post at a time !!

I like this post a lot because it shows that the dumped 4 players who weren't paying AFL for 3 blokes who should play 15-20 games, and one who could play a few. In that way we have added depth, because we have an extra 4 mids to choose from because last year, with those 4 on the list, we were effectively 4 mids short. Our depth is now done of the mids that played in 2013 Add pick 9 and Riley and we have 6 potential players as depth (ie outside our best 22 that we may actually select).

My thoughts on today. ■ Spencer runs pretty well for a big fella. He is a massive man. ■ Viney has a very solid core. ■ Viney and Michie did some kicking drills after some 60 odd metre run throughs. Michie appears to have a neat kick on him. ■ Clark looks to be going pretty well. Something would have to go wrong for him to not make round 1. ■ McDonald is a great runner. (I know we all know this) he doesn't just lead every run, he dominates them. ■ Trenners has started back very well in the running stakes. The new interchange rules will suit him. It will take the sting out of the pace near the end of quarters. ■ I chatted to Chip, Watts and Dunn when going back to my car. They did the tan and then runs up the Anderson Street hill. For anyone that has done this before it is hard work that hill. They aren't really back until the 18th. ■ Josh Mahoney said that there will be 15 players plus the draftees on this date. He is very positive about the way things are going. ■ Evans is running pretty well. I hope he has a decent run with no injuries. ■ Howe looks very fit so early. ■ Matt jones has a bit of work to do running especially with the new rules. Not saying he is unfit, just needs some work. I guess it is his first real pre-season. I'm hoping all the current mids push hard and push each other. ■ Hogan did lots of running with Viney and Michie. The kid really can run and is a big unit. ■ They did some short ball work but its mostly about running. ■ Tyson ran mostly the whole session. ■ My mate's favourite player Terlich, ran off and did the tan after the ball work while most did a timed run. ■ The run was about 5 minutes as far as they could go. McDonald led easily. Fitzy was about a half lap behind at the end. ■ Nicholson and Hogan did a kicking drill near me. Nicho kicked the ball really well. He obviously has some decision making issues during games which affects his kicking. Maybe Roosy can simplify things for him to help this. I am not a negative person and try to take positives from everything but he will be under the pump under roos game plan if he can't do this. ■ I didn't see Blease go near a footy and he ran the whole time. ■ Toumpas will really benefit from his first preseason uninjured. He ran well and kicks beautifully. ■ Rawlings is everywhere at training. He impresses me. He appears to have a rapport with everyone.

I predict that Franklin will be coaching Auskick in Bondi for the last 4 years of his contract. Has the added incentive of picking up a few hots Mums on the sly as well, before he heads down to North Bondi Italian with 20 or so of his 19 year old retail assistant groupies. And Josh Gibson. The Swans' no d1ckheads policy is officially over. Quite a relief really given that Roos is now on board with us.

yep...got Gysberts written all over him ......

If it leaves you gasping for breath you can imagine how Ottens felt! Welcome Aidan!

You can get excited as you like, if that's what you need to do. Roos has recruited midfielders....hardly earth shattering stuff. I just want to see how these picks unfold before I applaud him. I'd love to play make believe, but I've been stung too often back to reality.

can safely say nobody saw this one coming

I don't think people are actually. What stands out for me though is that there is a clear theme in Roos actions ie identify clear weaknesses and plug them. Our weaknesses clearly relate to a hard running mid field and hardness around the ball. Michie, Cross, Vince and this bloke are all the hardness at the ball types. Roos will drum into everybody the hard running part. These guys are not necessarily champions, but as long as they are good servants of Roos gameplan and add aspects to our skill base I think that is all we can ask. Roos is clearly very focused on getting a real hardness into our midfield - and wouldnt that be a wonderful change. I'm sure Nathan Jones won't be able to get the smile off his face.

I have been to two sessions so far this year and my observation would be that they start off with light jogging (which makes sense), then they do ball work - hand passing and short kicking with some bumping and blocking - which is then followed by gut running. The first official session of the season finished off with twelve 300m runs in groups of 4 or 5, and the second session finished of with a hard competitive 2000m. I think this is about what you would expect at this time of the year, but I have not seen hard running exercises to start of the sessions. The other observation I would make is that Dave Misson has been associated with Paul Roos through some of his most successful times, and I'm sure they would have got the formula right. Neeld had some pretty strange Collingwood inspired ideas.

"We know where we're at"

With a only handful of games and a broken leg, he's luckier than a dog with two d*cks to get picked up again. (apologies to Bill Clinton)

That SANFL stats are undeniable that he's a clearance machine. And every likelihood points that when fit he could win his fair share of clearances at AFL level. That does not mean he's lauded as a future star. In my mind it's not much different to saying Max Gawn is really tall or Jack Fitzpatrick has elite speed for a man of 200cm.

Incorrectly calling an abbreviation such as FWIW as an acronym can be equally infuriating.

I see more potential in Jetta than Dan Nicholson, if this is what it boils down to .

The glass is always full unless it's in a complete vacuum. It's more a matter of whether it is full of liquid.

Really the recruiting team have balanced up who will be available at pick 57 compared to Riley and gone with Riley. I don't think it's about not rating who've we have assembled but recognizing despite the 4 big additions (Vince, Cross, Tyson, Michie) we delisted 4 pure midfielders as well (Magner, Couch, Rodan, Taggert). So we hadn't really added depth. Just replaced the depth who weren't up to AFL standard with 4 guys who will be who now force competition on the likes of Matt Jones, Evans, McKenzie and Toumpas. Riley is the first addition that adds depth in numbers from last year. Pick 9 will be the next addition.

Obfuscate? I am unclear on the use of that word! You can all go to Dee hell! He is 185 and that is that!

Usually Moonie, your posts have the effect of either a sedative or a suppository on me. However, this time you piqued my interest by helping me recall a moment from the past. I shall graciously share this with you and [censored]. I was attending a soiree of fellow degenerates during the 70’s. It was a classy affair and the theme required one to dress up as some sort of religious type. As befits my station I, of course, chose the Pontiff as my inspiration. As the evening advanced amid cheap pot and long necks, I made the acquaintance of a particularly fetching nun. To cut a long story short, said nun had a very broad interpretation of the vow of chastity and the evening ended satisfactorily. So whilst I have never joined the priesthood, i have been a Pope. And, as to priestesses, I believe there were some of those at the get together but I had already fallen into a bad habit.

No player would ever be given a cast iron guarantee about being best 22, but Michie wouldn't have left a successful club that was trying to retain him if he wasn't pretty certain there was a spot for him in our best 22. Melbourne wooed him and they didn't do it to get him to Casey. To not assume he'll be in our best 22 is pretty dumb.

Operating out of Victoria's version of the Gobi Desert was always a dud idea. WTF would go there?. Cut all ties with that part of the world and set up a team and training facility etc in a far more civilised locale. Just a suggestion but er .... a place like ... say Romsey comes to mind.

F#ck the City of Casey and the whole string of fake highway towns out to the coast. End this dud deal now. Politely scrap any reference to Berwick and surrounds and the deal made with them. Our players do not want to be driving there for any reason at all. ever.

very excited about Michie You dont get highly rated by Paul Roos and Ross Lyon if youre as spud

I was chatting to Tom Sheridan (has re-signed at Freo) a few weeks ago, and he reckons Viv is a gun. Tom's more an outside midfielder (he captained Calder Cannons three years ago), and reckons Michie is really good inside, with good hands and feet, a good leader, and a top bloke.

I could understand your employers encouraging you to take time out of the office.

Means he's not carrying any injuries and is ready for a full preseason for the first time. The club are easing in his workload until all the players are back. Great news I would think.

No we are still at the old ground. At least it now has goal posts rather than rugby one. The Pies former ground looks like it is being prepared for cricket with centre turf and practice wickets. I think they have substantially improved the surface of our ground though. I was there for a short while. Also a short session, structures like Wednesday although they ended it with the major group doing a time trial of four laps which would in the ground I imagine to be about 2km. Tom McDonald won it easily from Tenners (who looks in top condition), Evans, toumpas (who also looks a lot stronger), Howe, M jones (who continues to struggle against the other medium sized players) Spence, Pedo, and Fitzy. Fitzy was about half a lap behind to me and looked to be at half pace. He may have been nursing some sort of injury because usually he is an intense trainer. Viney, Clark, Michie, and hogan worked seperately on skills and finished off with half a dozen one lap run throughs. God Viney is an intense trainer. He doesn't like being beaten by ANYBODY. Also saw Bleese for the first time and he worked with Tyson doing light ball work and finished off with jogs around the oval a couple of times. Pleasing to see Clark being more involved both in ball work and the runs although he was mostly seperately at least in the running. Looked a lot smoother than Wednesday. I can see why Roos was pleased with the way he pulled up two days ago.

Went along today, but it's the first one I've seen so hard to make comparisons.. but I'll go through my observations: Kent and Tapscott went back into AAMI after a short while and didn't return. Hogan, Viney, Michie, Nicholson were in a separate group doing running drills and then handball and kicking drills led by Miller. Byrnes was with them early before heading back into AAMI. Tyson did lots of running drills with above group / alone and looked fine, before joining another group for handball and kicking. Have to say, his reflexes by hand are bloody impressive! Frawley, Watts and Dunn went past (not in uniform) doing their own training and jogged across to the Tan. The main Group (Gawn, Spencer, Pederson, McDonald, M Jones, Howe, Toumpas, Trengove, Evans, Terlich, Fitzpatrick, Clisby) did a couple timed runs around the paddock and should be no surprise that McDonald was first each time. Followed by Trengove, Evans, Howe and Toumpas (last 3 pretty close, not always that order). Gawn left probably about half way through. Blease seemed to be on his own program. Did quite a few laps and some kicking drills with Miller. Clark started kicking with a trainer before joining the main group for mark > handball > kick drill and other handball drills. He then did laps with Westrupp, helping the kid out. Clarks running was good and kicking was fairly spot on. Westrupp looks a fair way off but having a good crack. Brad Miller quite vocal, firm and encouraging but having a laugh too - like the way he goes about it. Toumpas going pretty hard and a beaut kick. Spencer struggled with a few ball gathering from your feet drills but was running really well.. even overtook M Jones. Trengove leading from the front. Anyway, nothing too technical but that's what I got out of it.

You need to get over the fact that Byrnes is on our list, and is contracted. If all goes well in 2014 he'll be playing for Casey anyway. But if not, then he is a part of this club, just like Pedersen is, and we can't afford to be throwing money out the window just because you don't like Byrnes.