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Is this a serious question? "Why aren't our 21 year olds the same size as those other clubs 27 year olds?"

I went yesterday (yes I recognise the madness in doing so). What an utterly miserable day at the football. When we are a good side and playing good footy regularly and the footy becomes enjoyable once again, I will cast my mind back to games such as these, which will help me realise just how much we should enjoy and appreciate the good times. The rain started teaming down from about halfway down the highway to Geelong and did not stop until Sunday. Even better I had a seat in the open and didn't take my poncho. The beauty of going down to Geelong is that if you're sitting in the open or standing and it starts raining you have absolutely nowhere to go. So it was just a case of sit in the open, put the hood on and suck it up while my jeans became so saturated with water that you could have filled a 2 litre bottle if you wrung them dry. Worst of all not only were we playing one of the best teams of all time at their fortress of all fortresses of a home ground, but probably the best wet weather team I've seen. The rain also meant that the only area we could possibly exploit them in (tall forwards) was completely neutralised. Now I know some will say that in dry weather they would have won by 100 points, but I disagree completely with this. We would have been more competitive on a dry day and the rain only served to exacerbate the skill and midfield differential between the sides. A wet game is all about your midfield and any deficiencies in this area are further exposed in such games. I thought we had a dip but we just could not compete with a far, far, far superior side at their home ground and on their favoured track. Perhaps in better conditions we could have moved the ball out of defence with some fluency and attacked off half back with more success, but Geelong basically smashed us out of the middle, drove the ball forward and in the conditions we just could not get it out and into our forward line. This was due to a combination of not being good enough, failing to adjust to the conditions and playing a side that just set up so well behind the ball that any pressured or bombed kicks forward (which is the norm on wet days) just get picked off at will. In general I thought the effort was there but the one thing that annoyed me was the number of times our players stood 5m behind their opponents which resulted in easy marks to Geelong. For those having a go at our tall forwards, I really question your understanding of football. I can't remember a game we've played with rain falling as steadily and as constantly as that (perhaps there have been but I've been under cover and not out in the elements!). 19 inside 50s on a wet day is a recipe for disaster for a tall forward - it gives them absolutely no hope. I get that four goals is unacceptable, but let's not forget these Cats had conceded only 4 goals against the best attacking side in the competition (Hawthorn) last week up until midway through the last term in pretty good conditions at the MCG. These were diabolical conditions at Kardinia Park against third rate opposition. This does not excuse the performance, which was far from good enough, but it does put some context around our opponent and just how damn good they are. It also does not take anything away from what was just a miserable, depressing day at the footy. You get a fair indication of the game when you see Geelong supporters leaving at half time just to get out of the unrelenting rain. The result was always inevitable, the game was a slog, we hardly went forward and I sat there getting wetter and colder by the minute. The only positive is that I didn't catch pneumonia.

I think it is all very clear. He will not Coach us unless he does. To put it another way, he will coach us unless he doesn't. Clearly doesn't want to undermine the present Coach.

I love how fickle we are. Put in some effort? We could win 5 more games. Have a poor day? We won't be a chance again!

Re signing Watts, Sylvia and extending Frawley, would make a significant impact on us going forward. Besides getting the right Coach, this is a task that we need to achieve. Sylvia is not perfect, but at 27 with 150 games experience and a new Coach, who might get 3-4 years of his best football from him, he is a keeper. On top of that to lose him for nothing would be a disaster.

its as easy to understand as........

Love.

I hate 17 other teams.

self delusion

Only if he played in the under 3's.

The same, or close enough to, 22 blokes plagued two teams in two weeks. Week 1 we play Ok, week two we pay poorly. The difference isn't the players it's the supporters. We extrapolate form from 1 week to the next ten then change our extrapolation based on every data point. When we played Ok against the dogs and swans people were talking about is winning 4 more games. We get beaten by the cats now we won't win another??

Regardless of whether they go for Melbourne or not we need to vote down anyone who's keen on this Carlton idea. It's guaranteed to result in less games for us at the MCG if Carlton gets the majority of their home games there. Surely they can get together some Pratt millions and a few bucks from the pokies king and refurbish Princess Park. They only need to look at how well Geelong are going with their own stadium.

I think the (censored) thing's been fixed. Tyson is considering changing his name to Tyson Unhappy anyway.

And I'd like to see carlscum found not guilty of tanking and fined $500 Gs too

There's no reason why a club can't accept draft assistance and at the same time work towards providing the environment in which it can get the most out of its old and new talent. Our most pressing problem is to develop our diabolically poor midfield and in particular, our inability to win ball out of stoppages. The type of assistance contemplated in this thread will help us get talent but obviously, we also need to do a lot more and, our past experience will no doubt be a guide to those charged with getting our list up to speed. We're assured of a pick in the top 3 or 4 as it is but we would be foolish not to accept assistance that would help us get additional quality to the club as well. It's a no brainer.

The knowledge that I stuck fat through these years so when we rise again it will be even sweeter.

There's really nothing to be confused about... he will definitely not be coaching the MFC next year. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . and now that I have committed myself to that view, there can be nothing surer than Roos coaching the MFC in 2014.

On one hand Roos say he won't coach Melbourne then MS basically says so in 2014 u won't be coaching the demons and Roos said something like I don't want to make a closed statement. I am confused and admit I have no idea if he will or not

The beauty of this situation is we have quality, experienced coaches available if Roos falls thru.

the idea that one day all the doubters are going to look like idiots

I just hope we have more sense than to rush him back. No point in bringing him back this season (possibly prematurely), keep him on ice for next season when he will be back to full strength and dominant as ever, as long as there are no permanent lasting effects from th injuries.

The simple fact is that if you have the ball and have it uncontested the opposition can't score and it also takes away from the the time they have to get it back and score. Therefore if you can move the ball from one end of the field to another with uncontested possession and have a shot on goal you will do very well. It's the basis behind the Hawthorn style of attack. Neeld was focussed on very quick ball movement with playing on quickly and going wide to counter quick turnovers. Unfortunately he didn't have the cattle and even if he did that game plan is still very hard to perfect. Craig has told the players to play on instinct more and use the ball as the feel is right at the same time to not panic and rush. It's more sharing of the ball and less frantic. But runs the risk of over possession. Personally I like the idea of our players actually getting the ball and using it. And would encourage the play to speed up when we have a raft of key forwards operating well and also hopefully some added midfield run to both create space and work defensively. Playing in Darwin this week favours a direct approach without over using the ball but at the same time we can't just bomb the ball around we'll get smashed by the Lions defense.

Colin is really at the crossroads if that is what he dishes up for his 150th when the whole club is on notice. Astounding that 2 years after 186 so little has changed on field. 70 inside 50's to 19 for the entire match What other proffessional organization dishes up such swill year after frigging year?? Davey and Col are what they are....they will not take us up the ladder.

Must have been using this software

Trengove, Gawn, Toumpas, Garland, McDonald, Clisby, Kent, Viney? That would make a decent VFL team...

or even better.................open a second window

It is the WAFL rjay! Oh and by the way did anyone notice the stat's for that bum we did not pick 5 Goals . gee I am so glad we took Cook!

Is that Alastair ..Tom Scully a one club player...Lynch. Take nothing from Lynch, he has little to nothing between the ears.

With Gawn and Spencer competing for fist ruck and Clark, Fitz and even Pedo doing the support, do we need another tall, especially when he can't mark, can't kick and only taps to his feet? Honestly, at this rate he's possibly getting paid more money per disposal than TS. If Jamar has any currency at all, trade him.

Yes it's just an MFC thing FFS, Muston, Dowler, Thorp, Egan, Tambling, Laycock, Tenace, Trotter, Riley Dunn, Fergus Watts, Danny Meyer, Vezpremi, Oakley-Nicholls the list goes on but no keep thinking we are the only club who does this

He actually ate 4 kilos of mussels, thinking they were like oysters and help him gain some testosterone. Easily confused with muscles

But this is all about making money for the Cats and gifting them a game every year; irrespective of the outcome of the financial side of the equation, there has to be an element of fairness in the fixture. We play them there every year, they win, we lose, and they make a [censored] load of money on the way through, we don't get the opportunity of making even a small profit from our game against them or at least evening up the contest a bit because we simply don't get the chance to play them at our home ground. Now we hear the richer clubs [censored] and moan if we get any sort of hand out, but this is the most blatant handout of all and the rest of the fixture is not far behind. We all know how hard it is to win down there, but other club's supporters don't because they never go there. In the last 30 years we have virtually conceded nearly as many games because of the rigging of the fixture. Wouldn't it be nice to have a game against them in Melbourne instead of down there, and playing in front of a crowd of maybe 30,000 plus, half of which are ours and not having to make the trip down there later on in the year.

I have absolutely no doubts about this kid. Great character too. Quite frankly, I can't believe we got him at pick 4. I'd love Ollie Wines as well. But it's not really about Toumpas v Wines IMO - they are different players, and, in any event, we picked the more highly rated one of the two.

Sack him. Sorry, wrong thread.

103 tackles compared to less than half of that in most Neeld losses. These types of losses, where we're gunning for the win but end up the worse side on the day, aren't unhealthy losses.

Thought Toumpas was close to our best player today against the toughest team in the comp, in the rain. That's enough of a positive for me to not be too down about today.

His stats are not great at the moment. That's why he is up for trade. He's having a bad year under a new coach. His stats from 2012 were better and 2011 were better still. He is only 22 years old. Nay sayers on here are getting caught in the thinking that he will not get any better. They made the same assumption when we were discussing Clark. Pros: He is a great kick. Decision making is great. Has great speed. Is a good size. He looks like he is going to be traded. (And therfore worth discussing) Cons: Does not get enough of it. (yet.) Needs to tighten up defensivly Doesnt get his own ball I would give our 2nd round pick for him. We are crying out for run and carry and good kicks. Plus his speed is great. He has had awhile in the system now and should step up to averaging 20 disposals a game in the next few years. Yes, he doesnt get his own ball. You know what? Just about every player has his downsides. There is a reason he is up for trade (potentially) I get sick of some posters who instantly say no without generating some conversation. I honestly doubt he will come to us. I would imagine he will return to WA if he does move at all.

Isn't Pedometer on a 3 year deal? Who'd match that or accept our crappy list management and take that contract on board? I'd also like to get rid of Byrnes, but he has another year to go as well. Davey maybe 1 more year on very little money. The others mentioned so far... meh.

I'm a believer that winning puts bums on seats. For that to happen we need a midfield. In most cases to get quality you need to give quality. I love watching him but unless he learns more tricks he won't be the difference between us being a serious contender or not.

How can we get Trengove running freely, how can we get Sylvia's arousal levels up each and every game, how can we get Tapscott finding the footy, how can we get Howe impacting the game more frequently, how can we get Toumpas some space with the ball, how can we get Strauss running off half back through the corridor and delivering forward, how can we get Blease the footy 10 more times a game. The MFC has untapped potential.

I actually don't think its crazy at all. Again people are caught up with this marking and not his all round game. With Clark, Dawes, Hogan and potentially Fitz, Howe and Watts don't fit. They either need to become mids or should be looked at to see if we can get mids. You've usually got to trade quality to get quality.

No ones looking for the quick and easy fix, we've been down for 50 years so nothing's easy or quick with us. What you talk about early on is the complete lack of discipline or courage shown by a couple of players, well the simple fact is they are simply not good enough and haven't been, nor ever will be. We have lot's like that and we need to rid the club of them and replace them with the Jack's of this World but we can't do that without assistance; much the same way they couldn't build their club without additional salary cap that allows them to pay a $1m for a player after they've just won a flag. It's all well and good for Jack to say that they are a great club, but it is a great club built on years of advantage given by the AFL. Why is it any different for us and why should our long suffering supporters have to suffer because of the ineptitude of Administrations we have had in the past? We can't build a new house with rotting timber and sub standard materials but that's what you want us to do; we simply don't have the players in place to rebuild the club and if we are going to retain all the old problem players we might as well give up.

Like Jamar has only had 3 senior coaches to become a top line ruck and has had one good year out of 10. Should have been listed 3 years ago when he had more currency. Yes, yes, yes. Absolutely agree. I'd be for that trade with Adams, even if we also gave our 3rd round pick, which would be a late 2nd rounder for some other clubs. About pick 30 might do the trick. A trade here or there could get us that pick. Jamar + pick 30 for Adams

Jamar for Adams would be MUCH better. Jamar gives us nothing around the ground, Gawn does.

Max Gawn is absolutely essential to our future. An effective ruckman who can take a mark up forward and also works hard to offer leads in the midfield, and can even play ok and lay tackles in the wet! With all respect, Jamar is not performing at the same level and it would be a disaster if retaining him cost us Gawn's signature. I'd basically roll the hypothetical 'what Jamar would have been offered next year' into Gawn's contract offer. Not to mention, he's also a charismatic and visible player with marketing value. The guy is needed at every level. Fitzpatrick and Clarke are back-ups, and recruit a speculative/mature-age ruckman or two in the draft, or retain Spencer if you have belief in him.

I think Howe is over rated. Doesn't kick enough goals to be a good forward doesn't get the ball enough to be a good midfielder. I think he has the right amount of trade currency to get us a good player.

That was our submission for Draft Assistance from the AFL. 30 points scored and a 50 inside 50 differential, together with the lowest inside 50 count ever recorded. Up to you other clubs, argue against that.