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As most of us clearly don't know exactly what our List Manager's job description was , we should be careful in criticising. We have someone on here who knows better than most what that was and if he chooses to post we might all have a better understanding of the role. I understand if he chooses not to. For what it is worth I am sorry for Tim that he now needs to find another job and from the little I know, I think he was pretty good at his job. Hopefully he will find another soon. We need to remember that for every person that leaves our club or any club for that matter, they have concerns for their family and themselves as to their futures. It is understandable why delisted footballers, can develop depression etc as a result of suddnely being unemployed, as with other members of the community in the same position. We and I include myself, can be a bit glib over simply getting rid of someone, but there is always a human side to the issue. As far as the List Manager position at the MFC goes, I anticipate PJ sees it being merged with another role.

Pederson - 3 years? GTFO

The senior player confirmed the rumours that Bomber was mucking around with a popular team mate's girlfriend and was regularly indulging with stuff that you couldn't buy over the bar at the Geelong Ex-Servicemen's Club. Behaviour that didn't exactly win over the sheds. Said that the senior players got sick of it, because he applied different standards and rules for himself to the player group. He also stated that, even though Bomber built the list, its senior leaders were (at that time) so good that they could virtually win big games despite the coach - and that, in his last year at the club, Bomber's influence was becoming more of a negative than a positive. He observed that Scott was a top selection as coach, although this was perhaps a bit predictable/convenient given they had won the flag only a few weeks earlier. I formed the view that they seemed to think Bomber was an extremely experienced/capable coach, but fundamentally a bit of a loose cannon by the end of his time at Geelong, although not in a wholly entertaining/positive way. If we miss out on Roos - which IMO seems likely, despite some here reading between the lines and thinking a "no" actually means a "yes" - my vote goes strongly for Mark Williams. I will be disappointed with anyone else given that Choco is ready to go, and passionately so. I reckon the players and supporters alike would absolutely love the personality infusion that he'd inject into this tired old club.

Here's my uneducated guess as to how things will play out. Roos in discussions with the club at the moment. Keen to take it on. No need to announce for a couple of months Wants to extract as much as possible from the AFL in terms of support and draft concessions. Mid August club announce Roos ha been appointed head coach and will come in at seasons end to oversee draft etc fro next season. In the mean time will meet with Craig and discuss how he would like the boys to play. Craig will be announced as Football Manager, perfect for the role, has the team onside already (in the same way Balme does at Geelong) and will work hand in glove with Roos and PJ. A smooth transition takes place at seasons end. After Roos is appointed he announces his assistants. Cameron Ling is one. Leigh Brown stays as does Rawlings. Royal goes and is replaced by Jnr, which goes a long way to healing some wounds.

I hope PJ is as good as some here seem to believe. It's not that I doubt him but I don't get the man love. What I see going on is partly the standard political act of declaring yourself to be in receipt of a very difficult legacy. If he is Jim Cardwell Mark Two, I'll be happy, but I see some of the knee jerk praise here as just the bloodlust of embittered supporters who wanted heads to roll.

I can't see Jobe admitting this without some sort of advice that it is ok to admit he took the drug. I'm very skeptical about this whole investigation and can see them getting off.

If you simply did your job why would you feel awkward Being incapable of doing your job is a different matter In a football club where your in a competition your expertise is always under scrutiny IMO a 3 year deal for Pederson is a blunder 99% of supporters think so but the list manager doesn't ? Show him the door i say

Mrs Robbie is never wrong, she warned me about both Bailey and Neeld and keeps on reminding me of it. Don't underestimate her.

i think it was the Hawthorn game when Dean Kent smashed some Hawk player over the boundary then stood over him and stared down at him like he was a little maggot Warmed my heart

When Melbourne seemed obsessed with getting Pederson I genuinely hoped they knew something I didn't, he never looked like being a player and the fact that he's blown out since certainly hasn't helped... He was even touted as a backup ruckman... He's not much taller than Rohan Bail and if they think his Naitinui like leap will get the job done, i'd suggest he strips 7 - 8 kilos to be an even chance of leaving the ground. How about we recruit a starting ruckman rather than the current list we have of backups to the backups...

You bring a strong argument, Tim. I do wonder what light Craig would be seen in if he wasn't at the Dees right now. I think he would be seen on a par with Eade and possibly Williams. I hope the players respond in these last 9 games, his fate is tied to that - no matter how unfair that is. But it does give Jackson an incrediable insight into how he would be a Head Coach. Frankly, my mood is always hopeful but I am very glad that I can say that we will be coached next year by either Paul Roos, Mark Williams, Rodney Eade, or Neil Craig.

I don't know who advised Watson to speak in this way in public but, if it was planned and calculated (and it surely must have been) then woe betide the AFL and the Essendon Football Club if it's a ploy that misfires. Watson has admitted to taking a substance banned under WADA rules. There seems to me to be no way, on the face of it, that he shouldn't be charged and stood down from playing until a decision is made on his future. The positions of a number of others involved at Essendon have to be looked at as well and the AFL might well be forced to take over the running of a second club. Unless, of course, a deal's been done in the back rooms. And if that's the case then the integrity of our game is in tatters but we already knew that.

if he isnt banned for 2 years and stripped of his Brownlow, ASADA may as well fold

Feel for the guy when you read things like: "Harrington will be the fall guy for many of last year's controversial recruits, including David Rodan, Shannon Byrnes and Tom Gillies, although he was overruled on some of those by then coach Mark Neeld." Also, find it hard to believe Jason Taylor is "under pressure", hasn't even had a chance to show what he can do yet. Although, it could just be because Todd did such a good job with last years draft I guess.

Ugh.

No one could accuse you of being a pessimist binman.

I shouldn't be amazed a your complete inability to comprehend what people say to you, and yet I constantly am.

I don't know about the "performance related" thing but I believe that one aspect of the way our list management was conducted last year may have had a significant impact on the way the playing group has performed this year. The decision made and announced early that the club would not re-sign players until after the trade period concluded in October would have been looked at adversely by the players. This would have been felt directly by those whose careers were immediately put into limbo for a couple of months (and a number left or had their careers terminated altogether) and indirectly by many of the others in the playing group whose contractual positions were to be determined in the future. Other clubs might conduct things in a similar way but I've never seen it articulated in the way it was done at Melbourne. It was a strange way of going about things but if you think about it, this was tantamount to an open admission that they were treating the playing group as if they were cattle. The direction might have come from the board or from list management but it had to be perceived by the players as ultimately coming from their coach. Even if many of the decisions made were correct and could be justified, it was the manner in which it was handled that IMO later caused things to unravel at the club. This would have been compounded by the long running and on going tanking inquisition during which the notion would have been reinforced. The football department kept saying that they felt that the players were being quarantined from the effects of that trial but in fact, I believe it simply fueled the seeds of doubt in the minds of many in the playing group. That's my theory anyway and "performance based" or not, I believe that notwithstanding the work he's done for the club, Harrington's departure might prove as significant on our playing fortunes from hereon in as those of Schwab, McLardy and Neeld.

Yes. We were given a strict ruling because the AFL believed we were harbouring a rogue comedian in Chris Connolly.........

If this firms up Viney's role at the club, then it's a positive.

I think Rodan is fine he's obviously giving more off field than on. Byrnes it might be injury or it might be that he's passed it because he started well then fell in a heap. But Gillies and Pedersen have been disasters. Especially considering we missed out on Jack Hannath because we added Gillies and Pedersen who both look like poor athletes so you worry about their training habits and commitment to elite standards anyway.

What i can never understand is why Melbourne people thought it was in our best interest to merge/take over...i will never understand that. I was horrified at the idea. Still am.

"The MFC members voted for the merger". I am sick to death of this statement being made in the media. It is used to denigrate the club and members. The truth is that many MFC members were denied a vote on the issue, many were refused entry to the meeting and the vote, if one can call it that, was carried by proxy votes, kept in a safe, for a time they were needed to stack a vote. The people who provided thoses proxies, had absolutely no idea they would be used in a merger vote. They were obtained from people who were given free memberships and told to sign over proxies. To call that a proper vote, on the most contentious issue in the club's history, is nothing short of a disgrace and an insult to the members of the club at the time. I wish someone would make this perfectly clear to the media and get this stopped once and for all. We should not allow this denigration to continue.

At the core of this decision and many of the others PJ will make (and may have already that we do not know about) is the importance of streamlining process. People with an understanding of waste in business process will see that this is not just a cost cutting exercise, nor is it an individual performance related issue but moreover a decision to make the clubs operations more efficient in order to make better decisions in the future and eliminate the 'basket-case' tag once and for all. For me it's now becoming painfully obvious just how much extra baggage and unnecessary personnel we've been carrying over the years under the previous CEO. Jackson is doing beautifully right now by both trying to mitigate the financial loss of contract terminations via the removal of excess salary roles and at the same time trimming the club of too much process. Also, let's remember the new level of accountability this will bring to the roles of the people who deserve to remain at the club.

Am I the only person who thinks adding white to red and blue causes more confusion than it solves. Is there anyone else who thinks we need a third jumper, either a red one or the old 70s/80s jumper as a clash strip. Would have worked much better yesterday

Again, I don't think you understand the role that Harrington played. He was the bloke who negotiated the contracts and also the one that did this 'frontloading' of contracts to meet the minimum. The Coach and the recruiter chose the players, and they advised the length of the contract.

Jackson has made it sound like we've made him redundant because we're making the position redundant. This makes sense. No one on here seems to adequately know what a 'List Manager' is. Does he do recruiting? Well, maybe, but Viney and Taylor do that too. Does he manage contract extensions? Well again, maybe, but Neeld clearly had a say in those decisions. Does he decide who we bring in from other clubs? Again, that's a role split between various people. Seems like Harrington's job was, to be blunt, redundant. The work Jackson is doing is amazingly efficient. According to the article 'he was on staff rather than a long-term contract, so the decision will not force the club into another costly exit after the $600,000 Neeld payout.'

...that said, I doubt he would have said anything unless it was carefully planned and they were certain it would not damage their position. This is all very weird to be honest.

I interpreted it as simply removing a wage from the FD. Viney can do it, whether he should do it is another question, but as you say, a List Manager does not decide the 'who' or even the 'how long' but the mechanics and negotiation of the deal. Frankly, I see List Management as something that should be an aspect of another role - you don't need someone dedicated to it.

Definitely a project player but at least he has a couple outstanding attributes in speed and skill. He just has to work on his tank I'd say and probably isn't a great contested possession winner but then you don't need every player having to do that you need a balance and he will provide that.

Steven Milne is stood down based on police charges. Ben Cousins is deregistered based on behaviour not positive tests. Jobe Watson admits taking a banned substance. His registration should be suspended immediately.

Choco all the way. Just the kind of character that the club is screaming out for.

That's what I was thinking, quite possible. I hope they find a spot for Todd and utilize his skills (he killed the last draft period) as he would be a big loss to the club.

Could this be Todd Vineys new position once the FD has been re structured?

Hahahah. This is classic. Thank **** Jackson isn't my boss I'd be [censored] bricks every morning I came to work. Pathetic basketcase no longer.

So he loses his Brownlow and is banned for 2 years in theory?

This kid has a lot of ability i think we have pinched another gem from WA

...is a badass mudder. He'll be really good one day. Just saying, but has anybody else noticed how good Neeld's draft picks have been, including rookies??

Dom Barry isn't expected to do anything this year, kid came into the system very light on. Dom is going to be some player down the track, he is an exceptional talent.

I would've preferred seeing Dawes grin and shove Simpkin to the ground rather than the delayed fall to the ground. Toughen up Dawesy and don't let that happen again.

"At the end of the day, coaches are like cooks. They are given a list of human ingredients of all different types, and their task is to whip up something from them." Exactly Martin. Neeld could have learnt a lot from that.

Yes, mine.

Dmitri has had 2 hip operations -one on each in june and july last year. That is only a year ago. A light preseason followed. How odd that a year after his ops he is now starting to understand the speed if the game. I had him rated =1 with whitfield as an U18 He was captain of ths SA U18's last year,even though they knew he was injured. Will be a gun and a future leader.

Here we go again. 1. I wont forget. 2. I wont forgive the people who wanted to take my club away from me and become hawks. 3 As I have said before on this subject, I was there and asked whats his name a question from the floor, the first question of the night . 4 I got there early before 6 and we were subjected to over and hour of club crap on the screen. ALL PRO MERGER. In all that time do you know what they didn't play , Yep you got it right they never once played not ONCE the club song. I suppose if you are a traitor you don't want to be reminded of what you are betraying. 5 Where does this crap about swallowing hawthorn come from? 6 Look no further than the make up of the NEW board, 7 hawthorn members 5 MFC members 2 mcc members and the pres nominated by the mcc with hawthorn having a veto on the selection. No say by the MFC on the election of the Melbourne Hawks Pres. ALL 15 members have full voting rights. DO THE SUMS we were getting gobbled up not them. 7 I still have all the papers sent to members by both sides [ I collect throwaway items like that, I even have 2 proxy forms where you can only give your proxy to whats his name.

If Toumpas doesn't excite you, I don't know what does. Finally we have a young midfielder who is showing marked improvement, is clearly learning from his mistakes, and has skills that the rest of our side dream of.

Of course we move on but I will not let people tell me that rank and file supporters voted to merge. That would be gutless and most Dee supporters have not given up on our club. In fact I think our membership numbers are remarkable for a club that has had such a tough time over the last few years. Carn Dees Never Give Up

Yes this really bugs me and has affected big time the way we are viewed. I worked hard on the no merger campaign as others on this site did. Trust me it would have been taken to court over the dodgy members added and our lack of access to lists etc. We were ready and funded to go. We would not have let it happen. It suits the media and other clubs to continue the story. Carn Dees. Never Give Up

Red, in the end many members (at least those in favour of the no-merger alternative) were IMO either duped, deceived and/or abandoned. Duped by a President that forgot to seek the members' tacit approval before proceeding. Deceived by connections within (and without) the Board (eg., Bill Guest) who used questionable methods to obtain proxies from non demon supporters under duress. He was even filmed doing so at his workplace and was quite happy to boast of his efforts at the time. Abandoned by most past players of the club who met at Jolimont HQ one night at the request of the late Ian Ridley, and signed off on giving their tacit approval to a merger with the Hawks. Yes, a few select players from this group changed their mind in the last week (or in some cases on the day of the vote or a few days out from the vote) ie., Barassi/Tunbridge/Wells. However in reality, those members/supporters against the merger were, in the main, abandoned by past players and greats of the club in favour of merging. Regardless of the voting shinanigans on the night at Dallas Brooks, unfortunately this is a stain that can never be reversed or re written from our history. However it should be noted that 2 past players stood tall for the club and vehemently rejected the merger. Brian Dixon and Alan Johnson. I'm not sure where Alan finished up but he was there at the beginning with Brian in the early formative days of the "alternative" push. So we can at least say we (as in the no merger alternative group) were not completely abandoned. Obviously Brian and others within the alternative then managed to garner the support of Diamond Joe. And so history was made. The one positive that i take from it all, is that it was only a 53% vote (approx 440 votes i believe) in favour of the merger with the pro merger team tipping the scales (from all reliable reports) with the injection of up to 1,000 dodgy proxies (taken out of the vault as you say). Yes there were pro merger last minute membership votes in there as well from all reports so it's hard to know who won the battle with last minute votes etc. But my understanding of the alternative "magic" votes were that they were mostly from existing "real" members who showed how passionate they were about the club by dipping into their pockets to purchase extra memberships through family and friends who were Melbourne devotees but not necessarily members at the time. Much like present day Carlton supporters! What i do know is there's no way any club or it's supporters/opposing members would have accepted, in any way whatsoever, such a narrow margin regardless of how it was achieved, nor begrudgingly moved forward with the planned merger. The one major positive from this unfortunate and ill considered proposal/period was that the club has now changed its constitution so that a merger can only take place if 75% of members vote in favour. Sadly we had to go through much pain, much expense and excessive hand wringing/nashing of teeth to achieve what should have been written into the constitution 16 years earlier when separating from the MCC as a public company in 1980. In general, this is a painful ugly period of our history and i agree, very much misrepresented by what is mostly an ill informed, poorly researched bunch of footy journos who love to stick the boots into us whenever they get the chance or there's a slow AFL news day.

RP my intent on this is not to go back and have a go at people who held certain views. As you say that is past and buried. My beef is with the lie that keeps being perpetuated and thrown at us, that we in fact voted for the merger and deserve virtually to not exist. There was never a legal, proper vote, held by the members of the MFC. Therefore a rigged result is not proof of what the MFC members did, wanted or decided. To keep repeating it indefinitely, is a disgrace and a stain on the members and the club.

People keep saying that Queen's Birthday is our Grand Final (which annoys the crap out of me), but Draft day has become our GF.