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I am a Foundation Hero and remain proud of my contribution and would, if called upon, contribute again. The basic premise of the OP is flawed and underlines why the club is in such desperate straits at the present time. There is little doubt that the Stynes/McLardy boards must bear a measure of responsibility for the mess but it is wrong to suggest they promised us a rose garden, nor did they ever give undertakings about the success of the football team or the ongoing financial viability of the fiscal and on field train wreck they took over in 2008. At that time the Board went to its supporters and appealed to business people, professionals and rank and file supporters for funding to help get us in the black so that we could compete with the stronger clubs in terms of facilities and amenities available for the football department to sustain improvement and betterment in that fundamental core area of its functions. Those to who the club appealed are well aware that even the application of the most sophisticated and elaborate business models does not necessarily guarantee success and this is particularly the case with sporting models where success on the field can be so elusive and dependent on a diverse range of factors. Further, it's a complete and utter fallacy to claim that the elimination of debt was the "the single achievement of the Stynes/McLardy Board". That Board also established better and closer relations with the MCC and AFL, strengthened our relationship with the Casey which is a long term venture aimed at expanding our supporter base. What they have failed to do so far is bring success on the field and in fact, we have gone backwards in this area in the past two - three years. However, I don't believe for one second that our current plight is due alone to any one factor be it the current board, Cameron Schwab, Garry Lyon, Mark Neeld or, for that matter, the playing group and some of the suggestions I've read here are disingenuous to say the least. The cancer at the club began long before Stynes took over in 2008 although reading this and many other threads you would hardly know it. Some of the worst "culprits" in causing the situation were brought into the club by previous boards. Neale Daniher was kept on as coach for far too long. Bailey was a poor choice as coach. The records of Craig Cameron and Barry Prendergast as recruiters speak for themselves. Cameron Schwab did not get sacked because he was "no good or because of tanking". He took the fall because the team's performance in the opening rounds of the season was abysmal and, as the CEO, he had to accept responsibility. The team we now have is the result of a decade of second and third rate coaching, recruiting, list management and player development and financial decay. You heard it this week from Cale Morton how he was amazed at how much harder and how more intense the Eagles train compared to us. That comment reflects not only on the current coach but on previous coaches Daniher and Bailey who set poor standards during their tenures. Then there are the negative and destructive elements around the club who had the current board in their sights from day one. I have no problem with critics (but prefer them to be constructive). The termites were boring away at the Stynes board and everything it did from the start and undermining its foundations (note that word). When times get tough, people at most clubs close ranks. Countries at war have national unity governments. But when our club was under fire during the tanking investigation, we had a former president at the forefront condemning us for tanking, we had disgruntled former employees coming forward and giving their jaundiced versions of what happened. Mark Neeld was undermined in the same way in his first weeks. So called supporters went to the media with stories calculated to undermine the club, falsely describing Cameron Schwab as looking "ashen faced", others telling convoluted tales about what the coach's moves during games like the Swans game at Manuka so that they could be blown out of all proportion. Others just praised Caroline Wilson urging her to keep up the good job when what she was doing was sniping at and undermining our club. I find that reprehensible. When Caroline Wilson bags Brayshaw the whole of the North community gets behind him. The Carlton people close ranks around their club when Libba called the club for tanking and even Libba himself was forced to recant under pressure. We have supporters who like to open the wound and let it fester but are nowhere to be seen at an AGM where they can get the message across to the membership and the board. Ultimately, if we want to see the club succeed, we are all responsible and therefore, if we're able to give then I consider it a duty to do so and I'm not concerned about those on board, particularly with the changes that will undeniably come following the recent interventions. As one great philosopher said, "Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Too much of what's going on around the club and too much talk among the supporters is all about negativity and looking backwards. We need to take on board the mistakes of the past and then look forward and act together to rebuild our foundations. That's what being a Foundation Hero means to me.

You are so wrong. Mark Neeld has been busting his hump since arriving at our clapped out club, pushing [censored] uphill, dealing with a corrosive culture, a poorly resourced and unfit team... He may not last the year, but show the guy some respect for his drive and commitment to what he set out to do for your footy club! Sheesh!

Am a Foundation Hero and will continue to give. Wish our recruiting had been better along with team development. It can be turned around; I can't walk off now.

Racism is not only about words but is also about power and how the words remove any feeling of worth. Posters who say that words meaning change, we are being overly sensitive and white people get called all sorts of names and its should be okay because its all fun and games/larrikinism don't seem to get this. As an Indigenous male I have lived all my life as a minority in my own country so I roll my eyes to the heavens whenever I hear a member of the dominant majority say I should stop being sensitive. I have lived with constant barrage of racism both open forms and subtle forms pretty much all my life. You become conditioned to ignore the subtle digs and jibes because I learnt long ago that fighting each one just makes you very angry person and the reality is, the issue is not one I have, but the uneducated views of the person perpetuating the racism. The last few days have been an interesting time for the sport and I think it has been a good to have discussion about this issue. It's a sad way to have to address this issue but often with racial vilification it's only going to be discussed when something negative happens. Some may think the media have blown the issue out to be more then it should but I would rather have peoples comments and opinions as it means there is robust discussions about it. The worst thing Australians can do is sweep it under the rug again issues like these need to be always discussed. What would be interesting is to see discussion occuring when there are no flare ups of racial vilification going on. The discussion has been a very interesting one and its been good to hear all your views on this except for yours DeeinWa having lived and worked in WA I am all to familiar with the attitudes of Rural WA towards the Nyoongar people comments like your mirror my own experiences in that part of the country. I wonder if you would have the audacity to call Buddy Franklin, Neville Jetta, Harly Bennell, Marley Williams, Louis Jetta, Jeff Farmer, Jamie Bennell, Ashley Mcgrath, Leon Davis, Chance Bateman and any of the other great Indigenous Footballers, who have come from Rural WA, an APE or monkey and then see if they think your funny. But I guess that's a bit harsh and I do apologise for that outburst as I certainly can understand that it must be hard living in rural WA as white male.

No i think if he was asked about players and their gear he would say something like: 'as much as the footy public want to see players turn up with their gear it will not be how we measure success. I mean i understand why supporters expect players to turn up with their gear, i get that, i do, but for us its about the process and the elements that if put together correctly will mean that the end result will be the players will turn up with their gear. But we can't be all about the end point. As i said our focus will be on the sub elements and process and this week the emphasis will be on the boys remembering to pack their bags correctly in the first instance. Our expectation is the boys pack their bag with an elite mindset, but look it is what is. We have the least experienced AFL side ever to play the game. They're going to make mistakes, sometimes their socks will be missing or they'll pack the white shorts instead of the blue ones. But they'll learn and when they build their routines and get them to the elite level, well they will have correctly packed bags and regularly attend matches with them ready to go. But supporters have to be patient, i get that might be frustrating, i do but we see the boys at the club and fans don't and they have been training to pack bags at a level that will allow them to make the next step Good sides do the small things well and when they are done well the result will look after itself.'

I attended the Western Demons pre-game function at the Subiaco club rooms last Sunday where Mahoney and Craig answered a few questions regards the team. Their comments on the midfield: We will absolutely be targetting midfielders come trade/draft time as a priority Said that we really have 8 or 9 players that can play through the middle whereas the better teams like Essendon etc have 12. Highlighted that as a major constraint. Once again reminded us of the number of games our young mids have in them - patience is needed etc Work is going on in the background to retain and extend the contracts of our better players like Sylvia Also, in talks with Frawley as we speak.

Congratulations to the FH members who have pledged to the Club in the past. While we all have deserved better from the Board and administration of this club, you guys have an additional element of feeling letting down. Well done to those and others that will continue to dig deep for the Club.

Surely Jetta deserved another run ahead of Nicholson and Bail.

WJ, as usual, a very eloquent post from you. I acknowledge that much of what you said is true. I gave to this Club, because I live red and blue. I know that sounds cliche and I do not want to be trite about this. I grew up in the northern suburbs, in a working class family, surrounded by Collingwood and Essendon supporters. My 4 older brothers barracked for Collingwood. I was anything but the stereotypical Melbourne supporter, so often portrayed and lampooned in the media. I followed my late father, who, having been born and bred in Sydney and somewhat of a renegade himself, refused to bow to the pressure of his peers and chose to support the team that carried the name of his adopted city and home. I still have fond memories of him somehow cadging a couple of tickets for the 1964 Grand Final. That epic day ensured that I would remain a Demon for life. As I suspect you did, I witnessed the quick demise of a dynasty from 1965 onwards. I lived through the excruciating '70's and the lean early to mid 80's, but the embers of my passion, like many of us, were re-kindled by the inspiration of Swooper Northey, the deeds of a young Irishman and a list of players who were by no means over endowed with talent, but played for each other, the jumper, their coach and the MFC. These blokes brought pride back to the club, despite the fact that they had to ply their trade with less than satisfactory facilities. To be a Demons supporter means you understand tragedy and irony. A modicum of masochism doesn't go astray either. But we push on. I have sat in the Southern Stand, the old Olympic stand, which, for all of its ugliness, by the time it was demolished, gave me such fond memories. I felt the spirt of Norm Smith, Ron Barassi, Hassa Mann, Bluey Adams, Johnny Townsend, Froggy Crompton, Brian Dixon, Wrecker Leahy, Ray Groom, John Lord; the list goes on. I have sat in the old smokers stand as well and the new members. Of course, while we might yearn for better days, we can't live in the past. But over all those days and contrary to the urban myth, I have learned that our supporters come from all walks of life and are as passionate about their footy club as any other. And so it is with the Foundation Heroes. We come from all walks of life, but bonded by a desire to see our beloved footy club pull itself out of the mire of mediocrity. Some could afford to pay more than others, but the motivation to give had the same value and currency. On that first night in Kensington, we were provided with a plan; a vision for the future. We believed again and felt a sense of unity and confidence that had been missing for so long. While we accepted that the path forward would not be a short one and was likely to have twists and turns, if not detours, we believed we indeed were going forward. While we give freely, we also entrust those to whom we give our money. As such, the beneficiaries have a fiduciary responsibility to keep safe that trust. Your observations regarding personal vendattas aimed at the current administration, targetted leaks, public criticism by former officer bearers/players and general destructive critiques of the club have veracity. However, in my view, we, faced with doing business in an increasingly more competitive and cut throat environment, have never been lower. While I agree, any changes which are made need to be carefully planned and implemented, to save even further destabilisation, in my view change is needed and the change must be extensive, or we risk our very existence. Like you, I will give to this footy club again. My conscience (heart) would not let me do otherwise. However, neither you, nor I can guarantee that our confrere's will turn up and give in the same numbers as previously. The most important lesson in any business is that you look after your existing clients, as it is cheaper than trying to attract new ones. That is just marketing 101. Go you Demons!!!!

Getting back to the subject or is it too late for that? Like most I became a FH because the club needed help, unfortunately they may need it again. This club is really good at one thing and that's stuffing up every thing they do. Don McL has disappointed me I really thought he would do a better job than he has, he and the board seem to have blundered from one disaster to another. But being the sucker I am I'll be there again.

The one thing that concerns me the most at the moment is that this club will once again exercise no proper judgement and make yet another epic mistake in relation to a significant decision (ie, in relation to Mark Neeld, and the way in which any termination may be announced and any transition will then be undertaken). In this regard, some of the suggestions for a replacement coach I'm reading here at the moment are laughable in the extreme. In fact, some of the suggested replacements are just plain stupid. They won't result in ANY positive outcome for this club. At all. Hence, the club cannot afford to react in a knee jerk manner to this issue, much like most of the media and some of the supporters here tend to. Quite simply, it is far too important an issue. Now, more than ever, is the time for the club and its supporters to remain calm, allow the club to conduct a measured and intelligent review/assessment of where the list and the football department is at, and, if the review tells us that Mark Neeld needs to be replaced, conduct an AFL endorsed process to identify and select a new coach. What troubles me however is that won’t happen. Why? Because this club has an unenviable history of exercising poor judgement and emotional intelligence in recent years in relation to delicate issues. Off the top of my head, some examples of poor judgement/limited EQ include: 1. Neeld comes in, treats the incumbent leadership group with absolutely no respect, publicly embarrasses certain players in the media (eg, Watts), runs down the quality of the list and the previous fitness regime, and marginalises most of the senior players (eg, Green, Moloney, Davey). Poor judgement – we paid for this (apparent player dissatisfaction). 2. The way in which Bailey was dumped was poorly handled by the club. It also resulted in various comments being made which seemingly led to the media driven 'tanking' investigation some three years after the club had been cleared of it by the AFL. Poor judgement – we paid for this (almost $1M in fact). 3. Bailey’s decision to dump Junior a year prematurely, and the way in which the news was delivered to him (just prior to the Port game at the end of 2010), was poorly handled. Poor judgement – we paid for this (no senior leadership). 4. Bailey’s decision to prematurely end the MFC careers of the likes of Robbo, Yze and White (and possibly also Brock McLean in retrospect) – and not to play some of the senior players who were still clearly in our best 22 at the time – revealed poor judgement (see 3 above – and 2 re: Brock McLean). Point of this being: If the decision is made to bring in a new head coach prior to the end of the season, it MUST be handled in a way that is sensitive to Mark Neeld and in a way which doesn’t fracture the player group and cost us plenty of money unnecessarily. Whilst it seems some of the senior players have, or have had, an axe to grind with Neeld, I expect plenty of the junior and recently recruited players have strong loyalty to him. Surely that's obvious. The club needs to be aware of this and very sensitive to this fact. So MFC - please don’t stuff this up so as to temporarily appease: (a) many in the media whose interests aren’t aligned to ours; and ( B) a body of restless supporters who simply want to see something done, even if it ultimately proves to be the wrong thing. As an aside, I’m not sure Mark Neeld would agree to it, but perhaps there’s some utility in honouring his contract (saving us $$, saving him face and hopefully maintaining player unity) and appointing him the senior assistant midfield coach reporting to a known and respected senior coach of the ilk of a Roos, Matthews, Worsfold, Williams or Eade?

My god, is this all true!!!??? Where did you get this information from and why haven't we heard this before??? Now I understand why you felt the need to start a new thread... because none of us have heard any of this before!! Who are you really... you must be an insider.

I am. I want this club to succeed, and I have absolutely no regrets about donating any money to it. Right now - I want us to turn things around in a way that ensures we keep every single required player, Todd Viney, Dave Misson, Webjet, Opel and 35,000 paid up members in 2014 and beyond.

If the OP can't be bothered looking for other threads on the first page to post his crud, I can't be bothered merging his thread. Closed.

FB: Terlich Frawley Garland HB: Strauss Pedo Dunn C: Evans Jones Jones HF: Tapscott Dawes Howe FF: Davey Fitzy Watts Foll: Jamar McKenzie Trengove INT: Rodan, Nicholson, Bail, Kent Emer: Spencer, Sellar, Macdonald OUT: Byrnes, Magner, Sellar, Gawn, Jetta IN: Kent, Rodan, Pedo, Fitzy, Strauss Ok maybe it's just me but if the final team lines up as I have it then I think it's pretty reasonable selection. Sellar is replaced by Pedersen can't argue much with that. Byrnes (regardless of injury) for Kent for some youth. Magner for Rodan is a like for a like and whilst Magner is stiff we know our midfield is rubbish so we have to try something. Magner just hasn't done anything creative at all it's just jump on the footy and hope he's got a runner to help him out. Then Strauss back in because he's in our best 6 defensive and push Nicholson to a wing where he can use his fitness and therefore leave our more dangerous forward in the forward line. That results in Jetta out which is fine by me he has always struggle to impact games up forward. The one decision I don't like is Bail still in but if Byrnes is injured and Jetta isn't really a forward who else do we have? The only name at Casey is Taggert and he's probably not ready yet. Oh and before I get Fitzy will come in and replace Gawn and that is fine as well. Neeld (especially with such an overpowered midfield) wants more run and pressure from forwards so isn't going to play Gawn, Jamar and Fitzy. We've got Watts and Howe as mobile targets up forward anyway. For all those talking about Gawn being dropped are probably the same hippocrits who profess love for Geelong's system of development through the VFL. We all know big Max is an important part of the future but he isn't ready yet. He came in with a heap of energy and vigour and has lost that and isn't finding the ball when forward and in the ruck isn't contributing a lot either. Jamar continues to give our midfield first use of the ball and is mixing up his hit points and tactics. Yes he's not contributing around the ground but neither was Max. Let's give Gawn a few weeks in the VFL if he stars he can then take Jamar's spot with confidence not a we had no one else style promotion.

Jetta and Magner out? Jesus H!

I think you will find that they actually WON'T fill the MCG.

Another sack Mark Neeld thread... gee, who woulda thunk it. Could the mods please just merge it in with the 120 "groundhog day" pages of the "Time to Go Mark Neeld" thread.

A mate of mine who used to support Fitzroy, then Sydney (when he lived there for 10 years) is returning to Melbourne after a stint in London, and declared he was going to follow the Mighty Demons, because he "loves the Underdog" and can see how special it will be when we rise. grasping at straws silver lining etc... but maybe an idea for our Marketing team.

Again, I am using the above as a rule for all players - if you have no discernable skills then of course a judgement can be made. I, at no point, say we will improve. I only state that these midfielders entering, or in, their prime will determine whether our midfield improves. We may stagnate - we may get worse. If you are a keen follower of football you can have that talent. You do not need to play football with the people you are trying to appraise, nor do you require some sort of special 'football level played' qualification. Quite frankly I find that as a lazy argument used by people who have an inkling they are talking to someone who has not played a great deal of football. Talent is easily discernable for smart people who love footy, nevermind their level of football experience.

Not a problem Satyriconhome but I did a count and there seems to be more than 140 characters in the text.

Some of the most frustrating and obtuse form of derogatory comments I hear stem from this attitude that Indigenous people get it easy because we are indigenous. We get free cars, houses and everything laid out for us. Apparently the fact that I have worked since I was 16 years old, built a house for my family with the money that wasn't just given to me but I had to work hard for does not matter because I have it all easy. To top all this off I spend every other fortnight going to the funeral of a family or community member. It's the attitude that we are lazy people who just sit at home getting the dole that this type of comment stems from. If the person in the stand had said the umpire was blind and was favouring the opposition side because they are the umpires favourites then that would be fine. But to say that he is being favoured because its indigenous round and he is indigenous is an obvious attack at the fact that the player is indigenous. It's used to easy to stand in the a crowd of people and Racially vilify people but understand today that if you choose to do that and someone reports you or films you then expect to be asked to explain your behaviour to the AFL. People complain that it's political correctness gone wrong but I see it as a lack self control and really sloppy thinking to continue to belittle someone because they are different.

3.17

It depends on what you are investing in as a stakeholder, and what returns you expect and when you expect to see them. For me, I've seriously thought about whether I renew for another year in 2014, but that thought doesn't last long because in the end I support this club. The thought to not renew was purely an emotive response, which I generally consider to be the worst way to make decisions. When Neeld was appointed I thought it was a great move because he straight away provided his vision for the team, and laid out what was going to be expected. To me, this indicated someone with a plan. I also knew that it would take time, and when I look at our list, as I've said in other threads, it is obvious we are in a massive rebuilding process with a very inexperienced list. I can't in one moment say "things need to change" and that some players need to go even if they are experienced, and then demand instant success when we are left with an inexperienced list. Did I think we were so far back from the pack that it would take this long? No. But can I understand why it is? Yes. The reasons I still believe we are on the right track is because the list decisions that have been made make a lot of sense to me. I'll outline my thinking. Pre Neeld we relied on a forward line with Jurrah, Watts, Green, Petterd, Bate, Miller, and Dunn. We did not have a strong goal kicking marking option in the forward line. Neeld has since recruited Mitch Clark, Chris Dawes, Cameron Pederson, and brought in young Hulk Hogan to give us more depth at this position then we have had in a LONG time. Pre Neeld we relied on a midfield led by Moloney, McDonald, Bruce, Jones, Morton, and the newly acquired Scully and Trengove. We then lost McDonald (big mistake by the Bailey group IMO), Bruce (was on his last legs) and now Moloney and Morton. Morton was going nowhere and after some of the things that have been said about Moloney, I'm glad he's no longer at the club. Scully obviously took the money. Neeld knew we lacked leadership in the middle, and hard bodies, so he went out and firstly grabbed Magner and Couch for the rookie list, who provided relief for the younger bodies, and has now brought in Rodan and Byrnes to help provide leadership and benefit the culture of the club, and help develop our young midfield list. Neeld and co also actively pursued Wellingham, Young, and Ray. Unfortunately none took up the offer, but I reckon Farren Ray might be thinking he should have. This again showed an intent by Neeld to fill the wholes on our list as best he could. They are already saying that the midfield will be a priority in the next offseason. The backline is the only area where I believe little work has been required, however the loss of Bartram has hurt us defensively, but I believe that players like Strauss and Terlich (a Neeld recruit) can help address that in the future. All in all, I have seen a pattern where the club has actively identified areas of weakness on the list and recruited for those purposes. I believe we have a more well rounded list than we had the previous season, though it is less experienced. I think the pathway that is being taken is a positive one, and that in another year or two, we'll start seeing the results. .

That's a disappointing post BB. You are so despondent and so bitter and see the worst case scenario in everything you have mentioned. Earlier today another poster suggested than in reality issues probably sit somewhere between the two extremes, a view you should consider. It is emotionally hard following the club right now but stick at it. Unless you are going to put up your hand you need to trust in the leaders we have elected, or at worst trust in the leadership of Peter Jackson. As a club we'll pull through this but if we fracture we will fall. If you want to see the good times again you need to support the club in whatever ways you can in the bad times.

That would be the preferred option.

Once again we are seeing a lot of people blaming the coach for things that should be squarely on the players. "He's lost the players" "They don't play for him" Utter BS. They are professionals. They are paid a huge amount of money to do what the coach says. If they can't or won't do that, then it is THEIR lack of professionalism that is to blame, not the coach. He was brought into the club to bring a greater level of professionalism and has been pruning out the players who couldn't handle being told that they weren't up to scratch ever since. If a few more have to go before the message sinks in then so be it. "The gameplan doesn't work" Again, utter BS. Casey are playing the same gameplan and are one of the top sides in the VFL. The difference is that their players EXECUTE the gameplan, while the majority of the senior side are either unable or unwilling to do so. Again, this is a fault of the playing group who need to work harder on their skills and execution. As Dawes said, the coach shouldn't be wasting time teaching his players how to put in. "He can't develop players" Once again, UTTER BS. With a couple of exceptions the ONLY players on our list who are showing improvement are the ones Neeld has brought into the side. Taggert is showing us some good signs after a lot of injury issues last year, Viney and Toumpas are both going well and Jones and Terlich are flying. All players who were not tainted by previous coaches. If the senior players are refusing to "buy in" and are also showing less or no improvement, this is a massive indictment on THEM, not on the coach who is trying to salvage their club and in many cases their careers. The common denominator in our poor performance from well before Neeld's arrival is the poor effort of the playing group. We've all heard the stories of players deciding not to show for training, or the leadership group overruling the coach and refusing to do a time trial. That sort of petulant crap is the cancer that has eaten the heart out of our club, and if the players are rebelling against Neeld it only shows that he is on the right track to breaking them of those sort of habits. It's time for them to grow up, appreciate the privileged lives they have been given and do something to show that they are worthy of the time and money the AFL and the club have put into them.

No mention of the AFL's culpability of introducing the a flawed priority pick system in the first place, or a free agency system that clearly advantages those already on top, or greatly compromising the draft with expansion teams and concessions at a time when the MFC was trying to rebuild. On those things alone, we should get a priority pick.

I want to see us lose by 30, then by 20 the following week against the Pies. Then beat St Kilda and the Dogs.

From the AFL site today: "Although the Hawks will go in overwhelming favourites, Neeld said the team believed it could win." Now the anti-Neeld brigade can start a new thread potting him for making unrealistic over-confident statements.

Yes agree, the coaching plans are indivisible from the bigger FD re-structure. But I do agree with other posters that there's an urgency. What's Neeld's KPI going to be this week? "Most of the selected 22 players turn up with their gear"?

Ironically Neil Craig would be high on everyone's list of potential experienced coaches if he wasn't already at the club and possibly part of the problem. He has said he doesn't want to coach again It's hard to tell how much of the coaching problem (yes there are other problems) is down to Mark Neeld and how much is down to the Neeld-Craig combination. Craig has been extremely loyal to Neeld but that's what I'd expect as part of his nature and ethics. Those on the inside, i.e. Peter Jackson should be able to work out Craig's ongoing value. I think we're not necessarily restricted to going for an experienced coach - if we think Craig has ongoing value independent of Neeld then a set-up like Essendon with a GOOD young coach and senior assistant (Craig in our case) could work. This would put Richardson / Bassett / Tudor / Burns in the frame in partnership with Craig. We'd still be looking for a new Head of Football from outside the club. Alternatively if we do land an experienced coach like Roos, Eade or Choco then where do Craig and Viney fit in? Hopefully one of them is a candidate for Head of Football. The financial implications caanot be ignored.

I don't give a rats about the losing margin, as long as our bone lazy players man up, RUN and fvcken COMPETE. Lazy, unaccountable coach killers.

I'm not arguing whether he should be the coach or not. I'm actually making the very simple observation - handle it properly and in such a way that minimises any further destruction to this club ...

As most know I was worried about this Board, the CEO and the coach quite some time ago. Having said that I didn't think it was this bad. For these reasons and the fact that I didn't see it as a sustainable business model I didn't become a Foundation Hero but I have supported the club for over 25 years and I hate to think of the amount I've put in over that period. The Foundation Heros are a group of generous MFC supporters who eliminated the club's debt, their contribution was significant and the single achievement of the Stynes/McLardy Board. They have been remembered at AAMI Stadium (as I understand it) and were promised success and professional management of the club and their contributions would be the cornerstone of a new era. But reports in the press that we are again unprofitable and heading into significant seven figure debt must be distressing to them. Much of the loss is being attributed to AFL fines, legal fees and payouts of contracts of CEO and potentially the coach and others. All of these expenses were avoidable with sound and sensible management which they comprehensively failed to deliver. I know that there are a number of Foundation Heros who read and post here and I'm interested in their reaction to our situation and whether they would again help the Club out of this position. For my part I'll continue to contribute in the way I do because the Club is much greater than a bunch of misfit administrators and because what I do is within my sustainable business model. But this administration should know that my ongoing support is despite and not because of their effort. Frankly I'm angry and appalled at how they've trashed my contribution. How do our Foundation Heros feel?

interesting reading back on old newspapers 2012 cant believe malthouse recomended this assistant hes had all the draft picks and hasnt got them performing this team is a rabble they have no gameplan somebody will have to take over the coach may have been a great assistant at collingwood under mm but hes no good in the main job these quotes were about guy mckenna now were singing his and the gc praises in less than 10 weeks amazing what sticking to the plan and waiting will do

Calling a red headed person a "Ranga" is racist actually. red headed genes come from the celtic people who originated in the british isles and the north of spain. So many people seem to think of racism as a white against black issue. racism exists in every society and against every type of person. White people in parts of teh world are vilified terribly and black on black racism has netted disatrous results in Africa. People are happy to call red headed people rangas and tell them they dont have souls etc etc but gee dont dare give a dark skinned person a name. i dont condone vilifying aboriginals or blacks but the double standards in this whole argument are ludicrous

Board members and employees are different. The board members are volunteer elected positions from amongst the members. The president needs to be a Melbourne man. The board can hire whoever they want to run the place based on expertise. We already did that though: Neeld, misson, Craig, rawlings, Taylor, all other assistance except royal (who is actually a doggies man originally?). I agree that Schwab was probably party off a bird club which caused problems in the way things were administered however he has proven in his actions this year that he is more of a Melbourne man that many on this forum. His actions and words despite his sacking (which was probably justified although purely handled) have been gracious and shown the man to have the club as his first priority. The disgusting personal attacks and that's to abandon all support of the club unless a particular action is taken, made on this forum on the other hand, are indicative of selfish behaviour where personal gratification appears to be more important that the long term survival of the club. Despite the owner of such comments usually claiming to have the club's beast interests at heart, a "my way is the only way" approach, combined with the derogatory personal attacks, will only serve to fracture the club in ways that are not sustainable. Is action needed? Yes. But we need to support together, not marginalize sooner people who are great Melbourne people and are willing to give off themselves to see the club survives. Just because they haven't been successful doesn't mean they don't care or haven't tried their best.

Geelong have recognized that defending forward thrusts has become pretty easy, both for them, and their opposition. Now that everyone on the ground is fit enough to treat the field like a basketball court, whoever is in attack presses forward. When this trend first occurred, the magpies and west coast dominated, by keeping the ball in their forward half and peppering the goals with enough scoring shots that they were sure to win. After a year or two of the forward press, teams learned that they needed to defend space in ther backline, rather than manning up individual players. This ensured that no player ever found enough space with the ball in hand to get a clean shot away. The ball might stay pressed into the forward line, but it scored a lot less often. Then, when the turnover inevitably occurred, the defending team suddenly scored on the counterattack because their forward line has space. Geelong are, I believe, deliberately conceding clearances to put the opposition into their "attack" structure. You will have heard coaches talk about teaching players what to do in three phases of the game. Attack, defense, and in-dispute. Players have different instructions for each phase. So Geelong deliberately concede the clearance to set the opposition into their attack structure. This sees them pressing forward, and setting a perimeter arc 15-20 metres back from the 50. Geelong then back the likes of Mackie, lonergan, Taylor and bartel to intercept mark the ball and immediately pump it long into the corridor. Tomahawk is 10 metres to the defensive side of the centre circle, and he is the default target. Motlop, Christensen, Stokes and Varcoe then use their speed to burn their opponents on the counter-attack, run onto the long ball from Hawkins who will kick towards goal with barely a look to see who's there, and score in a relatively open forward 50. The reason Collingwood are so good against Geelong is because of the way their backline sets up. They generally leave at least one player (often Marty Clarke) 20m to the defensive side of the entire game which gives them time to get to the clearing Hawkins kick. Also Shaw, Harry O and co are as good at tracking the loose ball as Geelong's speedy forwards, which allows them to curtail the Geelong counter-attack and launch what amounts to a counter-counter-attack of their own, when Geelong's defensive zone is compromised by the players switching to their 'attack' structure. I love watching those two teams play each other.

Seriously worth looking at if interested. There are about 400000 Chinese people in Melbourne, it would be fantastic to open our game and club to the Chinese community. Herron past the Chinese factor, he is a successful busines man, a fighting spirit, tough as nails and dosnt know much about footy so he wouldn't interfere in the football department. Surround by a board with football pedigree, he is definetly worth considering.

I think this a really interesting observation and I think it does relate to the MFC. We talk about clearances, the contested ball, the importace of defence, but other teams who are really successful do not worry about some of these at all. What we need to to is look at the relationship between the stats and the score, ie can you lose the contested ball and still win? (Answer is yes) Can you lose the clearances and still win?(Definitely) Can you win if you kick the ball to the opposition in uncontested situations? (this seems to be called run and spread) Unlikely. Can you win if the opposition takes more marks inside 50? (Unlikely) Maybe we are all looking at the wrong things, or looking at things that might have got us in the 8 in 2009 but will not even get us close now.

It's part of the plan to make Demonland the hardest site to play against.

Love how an interesting observation about a potential evolution of the game is straight away brought into a Melbourne perspective. Sometimes I wish this board would open up a little and not be so afraid to talk about the rest of the competition or the game itself.

Stopped reading at comment 9.... You lot are an utter disgrace who clearly have no concept of what racism is and are proof of what is wrong with this country. Go out in the world, meet some people of another race and educate yourselfs, find out the true relation to the word ape and black people... I don't blame you all for the subtle racism, the fact is, white people will never really get it as they have been white their whole life. My beloved Australia, maintaining their name around the word as one of the most racist places on earth.... "oh it's just a joke", "I wouldn't care if someone called me an ape", "he does look a bit like an ape, thats not racist", "you pay your money you can say what you like".... Total garbage.

Who made the decision to put Lyon on the coaching selection panel? McLardy, Schwab and Stynes. They are admin. Schwab was sacked because he was no good and he approved tanking. That has cost us an extraordinary amount. No amount of criticism of those in charge of our situation "over the top". We are where we are because of them.

The guy is coming off a limited preseason and had 20 possessions @ 93% and 2 goals. Was far from our worst. In fact if a player at another club did that there would be a thread as to why we didnt draft them. People need to get a clue.

Yes. Both at home and at work. (Not that I ever read Demonland at work. Not ever. Not even once. Cough.)

Oh and I will summarize this weeks changes as bail out, sell out, gone out and lick out. Whilst we go for rode in, fits in, strap in and peddle in.

The President Board and Coaching Staff...Out. Please.