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Can't agree with the above assessment of Jimmy Toumpas. Along with Magner, who's probably BOG here, Toumpas is dominating. There's also a bloke over at Port Adelaide called Hartlett who probably fitted the above description of Jimmy T but is now considered to be moving towards elite midfielder status.

Forget stats, forget win-loss ratios. This is what it comes down to... If we all dread going to watch our team play and no longer get any enjoyment out of this club, then what is the point of our existence? Neeld has made us unwatchable, which means he has made us redundant. We exist in a competitive sports industry that is a fan spectacle. Fundamentally, we don't fit that criteria as a club anymore. How long can we really survive this way?

I actually wouldn't mind a lot of our younger boys having a good hard year at Casey, working on their DEVELOPMENT as footballers. Then next season we could see the likes of Hogan, Toumpas, Taggert, Tynan, Fitzpatrick, Kent, Barry, Davis, Blease, Strauss etc pressing for their place in the side. Get rid of a few that won't make it like Gillies, Pedersen, Rodan, Davey etc and draft a few more mids and maybe trade or bid for one or two and the list looks a whole lot different.

Why should he be gifted an AFL game? Part of the bullish*t culture that Neeld is trying to eradicate. Make him work his butt off, run, sweat, play accountable footy, pick up a man, run in defence and do the disciplined things. Time for Blease to draw his own line in the sand. Fmd.

and let the young fellas play in the vfl finals this time. That's a very important part of their development and team bonding

EVERY other club in the competition would be thrilled to have Trengove on their list. Some of the criticism of him here is plainly stupid.

Unwatchable?! I have watched as many Demons games as most of you. And one of the best quarters I have EVER watched occurred only two weeks ago. If Demons supporters weren't so important and rare, I would really up the ante with some of you. Fair dinkum. Get behind the club. Many of you are like Italy in WW2.

Just back from the game, watched the second half. A very good fierce game of football, Crackers Keenan on the boundary encouraging his Port ruckman to "hit in hard" every few minutes helped! It was a game we shouldn't have lost given the 3 qtr time lead, but at 5min 15sec into the last we trailed by a point without having basically touched it - except for when Couh got mowed down trying to break free after ingnoring Jimmy T as a free handball.... A great level of footy for our young boys to be playing and as the coach said at 3Q time - "they've lost twice in 4 years at home"....we let one slip. Looked like we'd roll over and die but Casey stuck at it. Love the Port song, weird to lose and hear "a grand old flag". Some thoughts on players I saw today (didn't see Pederson play): Clisby: had no idea who he was but really liked #70's leg speed, long raking kick and energy at the contest for a "quick small backman". A rich mans Nicho perhaps. Had kick out duties and was well in the game until concussed early in the last. I can see why we picked him. Fitzpatrick: I know there are many mixed views but from what I saw today he's at least as capable as Pederson and Sellar for a AFL spot. Has really grown into a mans body, can take a big mark and is OK in the ruck. Might be a confidence issue with him. Reckon he's earnt a crack. Couch and Magner: wow they are similar. The heart and sole of the VFL mid-field, in there all day, no rotating forward for those boys. As has been said ALOT before they are really hard and get heaps of footy....but geez can stuff it occasionally. I thought Couch was BOG but couple that with an awesome turnover Casey ran down the wing in the 3rd Q under plenty of pressure throughout for Couchy to get free at 60 and hit Dawes opponent laces out when Dawesy was 5 metres clear in front....argh! Happy to have one of them in the senior side. Toumpas: what's all the fuss about him not being a #4 pick etc? The kid can play, got plenty of it, is more outside than inside but can do both, laid some nice tackles and EVERY time he kicked it, whether it be in the clear, under instense pressure, short or long, in pack or whatever he HIT a target. A few more games like that and he'll be back at AFL - I bet Hoges loves the thought of Jimmy T getting the ball. Davey: serviceable game, kicked a nice pressure goal last qtr, got involved, pretty positive body language etc. Played forward. Dawes: if he can play HALF as good as he can lead, coach and direct traffic he'll be a gun. I'll bet he coaches one day. Enough to like, kicked 4 I think though not all from BIG pack marks etc. Attacked it hard, is pretty quick. Maybe one more week at Casey pending how we go tomorrow. Sellar: thought he was pretty average actually. Solid but nothing more at CHB. UNlucky kick against him in last. Davis: similar views to all others on here, like him better as a footballer than Sellar but.....argh....kicking Blease: thought he was really good, flashed in and out but did it regularly. A key for the team in gaining 70m every time with run and carry. Still needs a lateral move and some composure kicking...almost kicked the winning goal bursting from a pack on the wing and a point going through from 65m out. D-Rod: as you'd expect can dominate the contest at this level. Kicked a really nice goal or two bursting from a pack, could have had more. Fierce competitor, actually pretty happy he's on the list and any blokes at Casey have to get past him first for a game, keeps a high standard. Tynan: solid, tough, has a crack but didnt get heaps of it. Groomed as a back pocket it seems. Taggert: ripping body for a footballer, could go toe to toe with Col I reckon. Plays half forward, we really need him to become a dominant on baller in VFL then go from there. Something to build on for next week. All for now, let's hope we pull off the miracle tomorrow.

Scully: over-hyped in the first half, gone missing in Q3. Give it a rest Demonland wrist-cutters, he's no loss.

Barn Dee, we only kicked 6 by half time. If he managed to kick 7 of those 6 he's not just a player, he's a mathematical anomaly.

His tenure has nothing to do with the ability to lure the next coach. Indeed, the failure of the Club to deal with Neeld only delays the process to find a new coach commencing. There is no way MFC can rigorously pursue a new coach with the incumbent in place. There is no way a proper process could be implemented without the media knowing. If there is one thing MFC should have learnt from the Bailey sacking, a coach should be exited professionally and respectfully. MFC need to do this with Neeld.And the failure to bring the players along with him is a core failure of Neeld as a Coach. It is chillingly interesting that N Jones is the only one who apparently has bought in to it. It is disturbing that after a number of the losses, the post match player/coach sessions talk about gaining "buy in". He does not inspire or has improved the playing group. They do not respond to him on the field. And he has mismanaged a number of player/ official relationships at the Club. There are a number of problems at the Club. He is definitely one of them. You are working hard to fantasise an out for him but the bottom line is that as Coach he has an 18% w/l ratio with 3 of those ins against the GWS school kids. He has coached only one win against an established side Essendon who we now know was on a downer over the impact of Danks. And is laughable that Misdon, Craig and Neeld are turning the FD into a professionally run unit with standards yet to be seen at the Club. I would have thought the failure to oversight a supplements program that has lead to the Club being dragged into another Serious AFL enquiry has clearly brought forward such appalling standards that have not been seen at MFC before. Jack Trengove must be really happy about that. If Paul Roos served up the rubbish that Neeld has, Roos would know enough to address the issues or be man enough to admit he can't do it. Roos would go on the same basis. Neeld gets into press conferences and can only say he didn't see it (the loss) coming. Disaster

Robbie Flower by the length of the straight. However, If wishes were horses & he won't, can we at least have someone who's pleasant to look at.....no offence to Don. My candidate (for our first lady president) is Candice Swanepoel !!! As you can see she's also a fully fledged Demon already.....

26 touches and a goal for JImmy T That was the game he needed.

we're shallacking Port @ the Borough... the Dees footy dept work is starting to show itself. and Casey & all the kids are Relishing the new broom put through the place. it always shows first, in the reserves, as it builds up the line....

God will you give the kid a break for god sakes it's his second (or third) VFL game and he has fifteen touches to half time. He's not a 100 game player being demoted and not getting a kick. Some people just need to relax.

Unfortunately I saw the same as you in my loungeroom, watching the tele. We were awful. If the Lions kicked better they would have won by 12 goals with 6 babies in the side. As with a few sides, they play crap footy until they play us and then we give them a one week revival. As for the good sides, well they just thump us. I understand our player deficiencies, I just don't understand our effort deficiencies.

This article is an insult to Kwame Brown. And yes, while I lament seeing Dustin Martin succeeding at Richmond, Judas and Trengove were the safe picks, so I'm fine with picking both of them. It's the drastic reaches that turn into busts (Cook, Gysberts) that hurt me the most.

Interesting how the article turns into a Dees bashing affair after 3 sentences.

Benson - it's actually very 'simple' to a lot of these dudes. You simply hire an 'experienced' coach to go into the sheds and yell at the players for a while, and then they go out and [censored] the other team (which incidentally is an elite sports team that has been trained to elite standards and is comprised entirely of elite players). It's that easy.

Fitzy has been backing it up for 3 weeks now. In for GWS to take Clark's role?

Let you into a secret, Redleg is the man for the job. He would get everyone working together and build an inclusive, successful, football club. He would also get rid of the carbon tax and make MFC memberships cheaper.

No Hogan no Casey?

Is that the same bunch of teenagers led by a delusional lunatic who are currently giving the ladder leaders a run for their money, just like they did Melbourne?

This thread is exactly what the long suffering demons fans are. Long suffering supporters who are extremely frustrated, and without any answers or hope for the club they love. This thread should be used in university studies on the psyche of footy supporters. It's real, it's raw it's us who have had enough of failure at the MFC

If that's what you equate to trying hard, this team is in worse trouble than I thought. Funny you say that: the list, fitness and leadership all appear to be at all-time lows, lower than they were before he arrived. You say "believe" because you take what he says at face value. Hasn't shown an inkling of what he promised over an 18 month period. Not even close. In fact, it progressively becomes more distanced. But hey, we don't want to make erratic decisions to cause instability. Eradicating those that failure are the last thing you want to do...........

Why change coach only to replace them with someone who going to do the same thing? If the problems with the team (i.e. mid-field, leadership, no A-levels, sub elite fitness) require the same remedies (I.e. work and time) then why change coach. If we're going to blame and work through coaches based on their ability to rapidly convert a sows ear into a silk purse, we shall be waiting forever.

And I'm the one setting a low bar?! .... As an aside, GWS is a club participating in the most elite AFL competition in the land. They're hardly Pooraka under 9's. Happy to stand corrected, but I don't think any other side has kicked 12.2 in a quarter against GWS this season. So yep - I absolutely loved that quarter. In fact, I'll take that every week of the year, thanks. I'm starting to think I'm in the minority here in that I actually enjoy seeing this club do well. Whereas some here seem to take some bizarre satisfaction in seeing the club flounder - the "I told you so" keyboard warrior element.

If melbourne was so bad at picking talent, then how bad must GWS be, and paying $6M to boot GWS had a lot more opportunity to gauge T$'s ability than melbourne had And don't forget they made their offer at the end of his first season, not his second, so he would be a bit tuned off with melbourne's development in his second year This is not to defend melbourne's development record, but in T$'s case i don't think it is very relevant

I'm impressed you remember who the Daniher cheerleaders are. Sometimes I blame Daniher for the disaster we are in but I also think when he left after 2007 there was enough on the list that if we got some drafts right in 07/08/09 we would've been out of the major troubles by now. But when I look back I think it might not have been Daniher's coaching that was the problem or even the way he stocked the list in 2005/2006 with guys like Pickett for the pursuit of a flag. Really I think the problem (which Daniher is partly responsible for even though we were flat broke and couldn't afford it) is that we completely missed the mid 2000's football department arms race lead by teams like Collingwood, West Coast and Hawthorn. Only this year am I happy we have fitness guys in place, recruiters in place, development coaches in place etc. We still have to refine who those people are - I think our development coaches need reviewing and obviously our sports science and medical team are getting reviewed through this Dank problem. But we can't catch up on field with the rest of the teams if we haven't caught up off the field.

Problem is that the truth hurts

Not a bad article. Recruiters are spot about our players not improving and that Nathan Jones is the only one and that he should have been captain. Good to see a honest article

It isn't boring on here when we're winning, the over the top hyperbole just goes in the other direction.Actually, it's been so long since we haven't been carp that I've forgotten what it's like here when we're winning.

What, you want Col to let them kick more goals??!!??

That is self-righteous nonsense and you know it. GWS are a bunch of teenagers led by a delusional lunatic. They are all potential and little experience. We got beat up on by Setanta. Setanta. FCS. I did not love that quarter - I was relieved to see it. That's it. It meant absolutely nothing. What did mean something was the way we backed up against Brisbane - and gave little. You jump up and down about beating kids. Whoop de do. As for your care for the club, well let's not let your self-esteem inflate further, shall we? You are not in the minority about caring about success. The irony is your poo-pooing bailey and he won more games! How much did you care then? Get the message: everyone here cares - only the precious wave it around as a virtue to gain the attention of others. And I "set the bar" realistically - we are crap and 6 years of performance is very good evidence to base that on. We are a club that make bad decisions and poxy excuses for them. We find new and inventive ways to hamstring ourselves and undermine our achievements. That is the truth - that is what we have done. Neeld has only shown that he is a continuation of that pattern and more's the pity. I fervently wish to be wrong. Everyone who wants Neeld gone wants to be wrong. But we have no evidence that he can coach the most basic aspects of the game, bond the players or even understand why we fail. So yeah, let's celebrate beating up on teenagers.

Prendergast is on record as saying he didn't even speak to anyone other than Trengove and Scully. I hope we have cleaned the place out of all Prendergast's recruiting staff and anyone who worked with him, or had a role in hiring him. Out of interest, how does the "list manager" Harrigton still have a job? The saddest thing is that the 09 draft probably hasn't decimated the club as much as the 2008 draft has. You could have thrown darts at the top 35 names and come up with a better result than Watts, Blease, Strauss and Bennell.

He's gone, we have our compo players, I don't care less about him.

"How tall is Hale?" Not quite as tall as he was since he's stopped wearing the rug. Guerra's still got his firmly attached, maybe Hale's was a 'cheapie'. Reckon he played his best footy too in the 'piece.

Agree.

Nathan Jones, as a Futurama head in a jar.

I find it interesting that a lot of Daniher cheerleaders are blaming Neeld when in the past they simply criticised the players and stuck up for the coach.

One of the best quarters you've watched came against the weakest team in the comp, playing away from home and after they have finally become exhausted? You are setting the bar low, Ron. I support the club. I support Neeld insofar as he is good for my club. I don't support him just 'cause he's there. The hard facts are that, despite massive increases in coaching resources, manpower, spending and training, we are playing lazy, stupid, dispirited football. It is a HARD fact. Not a cutesy impression. There are lots of reasons why and it is unreasonable to think that Neeld is not one of them. It is also unreasonable to see that he can fix it, given he has shown no such ability. I'll be rapt if we get without 15 goals of Carlton. My expectations are that we will not be competitive. Neeld has helped build those expectations. I'm far more angry at the Board than I am at Neeld - 5 years of decision making form them has led us here. Neeld is just not up to it. Let him go, Ron.

Got any stats to back that up? I'm one of the 30,000 and I signed up to support the club that I love in part because I don't want to see it fade away. What I don't love is the lack of hope the club has been peddling, particularly since round 1 2012. I think if you asked all of our supporter base less than half would support the current coach. Why's that? Because he's not giving them much to believe in. I'll always be a member, just like I'll always be an atheist, but it doesn't mean that I don't want to have something to believe in.

Also, can we have one thread called 'time to go' rather than individual ones for each sackee? Better still, we could just pre-insert a list of all of the club's employees into the 'time to go' thread. We've just got to remember to keep it updated as new employees join the club.

Seeing him play twice this year and many times previously. He has improved his disposal and decision making from appalling to mediocre. He is an excellent mark and spoil but does not have the tools to be a running half back.

I think it's actually a good point about the rest of our midfield... It can't only be Jones winning a large amount of clearances, he needs support and has none. If our midfield was three Jones' we'd be doing pretty well.

Sorry but got to jump into the ring on this, Re Davis ( And for that matter J.Tynan and R.Taggert) who we have been running around in the VFL seconds recently ??- Good coaching development work guys - even if just a little slow)- We simply don't know what they have got, but what we do know is playing the others ahead of them has got us nowhere! Its almost like a repeat of the Danniher playing the favourite sons era. Cost us big time. We seem to be prepared to hide these blokes , over protect them and menwhile one O.Wines at 18 has played every game for Port Adelaide this year. How does this work? Re Davis for some of the defeatists on here . Oh he cant kick it to well apparently. Mind you gets it a lot ( more than most of our other scrubbers can do) plays on blokes 10cm bigger and does well , gets SFA acknowledgement from his own supporters other than put down remarks from the haters , is 193 or 194 cm runs pretty quick for bloke this size , looks like he has a bit of s..t in him. For my money is still a young lad , has done very little wrong and so far, makes Pederson and Gillies look totally pedestrian. No I'm not a relation just someone who likes the way he goes about things and hopes he gets a fair go. End of Rant!

Jeremy Howe-69 marks Max Gawn-1 mark

Sorry, these are rubbish comments. Just because you take issue with the President, doesn't mean you then have to stand for the position yourself. Similarly, you don't have to play football to pass comment on an AFL footballer. My god. We wouldn't have a media industry. WYL has a right, like we all do, to question the club when the results continue to be dire. We are the shareholders. We are Melbourne. The members. The supporters. That doesn't mean you can't question.

Clisby is a mature age rookie, but has speed and can kick, just lightly built, looks ok at VFL Level, went ok in the SANFL, you can find some clips, reckon they will look at what 12 months does for him, probably needs a full pre seasonStark is very young, spoken to him a couple of times, no need for a visit to Coles for the bag of confidence for him, will be a very good outside mid to begin with, there is no rush with him, again think they want to look at him in 12 months for progress, actually scouted by Neeld himself. Just a word on another of the young blokes, Tynan, picked up a lot of injuries, so they are rebuilding him, hence the Development squad, he is not phased, knows what the plan for him is, he was BOG last week, so confidence being built as well Taggert is on the way back from serious injury, originally slated for Development squad like Tynan, but impressed, wouldn't mind a glimpse in second half of season if still playing well Going to Port tomorrow to watch anyway

Walt Disney.... We need a fairytale....