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Wines is not a ready replacement for Moloney. Moloney could have still be with MFC and we possibly could have been a chance to win. I said last year in August that there was no evidence that this guy could coach. He needed results in 2013. All we have got is ample evidence that this guy can't coach. The rift starts and ends with the Coach. He should be shown the door urgently. He has done untold damage to this Club. The first job of Jackson is to cut him loose and work on retaining the many players that we need to retain that Neeld has lost ( eg Frawley)

On twitter @melbournefc: Neeld: We thought that under 5 goals on the road was a positive. No, not it is not, a 5 goal loss to a top of the table interstate team, maybe. A 5 goal loss to a team as bad as us who kicked poorly at goal and had over 100 possessions more is pathetic. PATHETIC!!!

Here's a few observations possibly not mentioned above. Brisbane beat us by 61 points in the Gabba game last year. Bail misses too many gettable goals and that is his biggest weakness. Howe didn't do enough in the second half. Matt Jones got his hands on it a lot, but rushed it a bit today... still amongst our better players. McGrath and Merrett alwas rag-doll us and get away with murder in the packs. Thought the umpire was excellent with Flash after he flew the flag on behalf of Tappy. Frawley was good today without being a clear winner. N Jones was disappointing... seemed to accept being tagged out too easily. Watts did what he always has... finds a way to take a few closely contested marks and kicks them straight from any angle. We need him forward with Clark and Dawes out. If Max gets a run at it without injury he is going to be awesome. Sylvia is having a consistent patch that should be applauded. Pederson is a tall back option when we are crying out for one.

We've gone backwards. We've got this wonderful fitness regime and they look tired and slow. They're s'posed to be learning how to beat the other team at hardball gets and look soft. They're meant to be undergoing a culture makeover and they look disinterested and lost. We'd be better off putting them on a beer and pizza diet and letting them play the positions they feel like: it couldn't be any worse.

If you prefer Sellar to Watts you are completely delusional.

i don't even know what i want to happen anymore...

Watched the replay Jack Watts is marked so harshly by the people on here, including me. First quarter he stands in the hole and shows great courage to take the mark and get absolutely crunched. He got no credit for it from anyone on this forum, yet it was gutsy and courageous as hell. He was also chasing multiple opponents numerous times, not his fault, where were his teammates? No wonder he could barely run, he looked stuffed. Went forward in the 3rd and took some nice grabs and kicked 2 goals and looked at home, I wonder why? Because thats his natural position. Neeld is an idiot for ever moving him back. no way should he be dropped, there was at least 11 or 12 worse players than him yesterday. Play him forward from now on Neeld you moron

Re watch yesterdays game and see how ridiculous taking Byrnes out is

Ron Baggott passed away on 26 April 2013 at age 96 years. His career was ended at the age of just 25 by the war yet his career achievements are remarkable and have him up with the greats of this club. 133 games. 308 goals. 1939, 1940, 1941 premierships 1940 best and fairest Victorian representative Hall of Fame member One of the 150 Heroes Devoted Demon, father, grandfather and great grandfather who saw out one last Anzac Day. From the club website: A contemporary and great friend of Norm Smith, Ron Baggott came from a wonderful footballing family, with brother Jack a star at Richmond who went on to take his place in coaching ranks. With his talent spotted at an early age, Baggott played in Melbournes Seconds premiership in 1934, and it was not long before his speed, accuracy and marking ability was noted. He was soon elevated to the senior side, making his debut in Round 12, 1935. Baggott quickly became a vital ingredient in the Checker Hughes coached line ups of the late 1930s and early 1940s. Described by Checker as one of those loosely put together players who was always hard to beat, Baggott was ever reliable on the run, and an integral member of the 1939, 1940 and 1941 premiership sides. Best and Fairest in 1940, he also represented Victoria in 1939. Continuing his good form in 1941, Baggott became one of many players to have his career interrupted by wartime service, enlisting with the RAAF in 1942. He returned to the side in 1945, and despite ongoing service commitments and health problems, was able to add steadiness and experience to a young side throughout a nearly full season. This was Baggotts last foray in red and blue, taking him to 133 games and 308 goals for his career, with his goals tally seeing him at tenth place in the Clubs records to this day. He was made a Life Member of the Club in 1946. Going on to captain-coach VFA side Brunswick, Baggott again joined forces with Norm Smith as assistant coach from 1958 to 1961, and as Reserves coach from 1959 to 1961. He was also involved in radio, and worked with the railways. Inducted into Melbournes Hall of Fame in 2003, Baggott was recognised as a Hero of the Club in 2008. He will always be a treasured figure in the Clubs story, and we offer our most sincere condolences to his son Ian and daughter Joan, along with all his family and friends, upon his passing. Information regarding Ron Baggotts funeral will be provided on the Club website when available.

Neelds mantra to the supporters and all in sundry is defeatist. Other lists have young players, other lists are developing, this [censored] must stop. Just get your players to play football that brings people through the gate to watch FFS. Stop feeding the crap to the masses.

It must be because Neeld is an idiot. Or the dozens of other reasons that have been discussed to death on here, like waving the white flag last year, sulking, only being any good against rubbish sides (how shocking that he killed us), being a poor cultural influence etc. Nah, must be that first thing. By the way, I don't reckon forgoing Pedersen, Gilles and Rodan would have been quite sufficient to land Mayes or Wines.

It does matter, it is time now to try some of the vfl guys. I think Fitzpatrick for Pederson would be a start, give Strauss a go and may be Kent . Tom Mac, Rodan and Bail could go back to Casey. As for the Master Demon wanting to drop Watts, can I ask why? I think there are far too many people that post here have never played the game and do not watch the game. I went today and saw Watts running for the entire first half and creating. His second half was his best for the year, he provided a target, took contested marks and kicked goals. IMO, he is still a forward first and foremost and should be left there to develop. So, please can the misinformed and poor observers get off his back and give the kid credit when he does lift. There were 14 worse than him today. FYI, his kicking efficiency is at 85%, best at Melbourne by far

These discussions alone are enough to suggest that our club is falling apart, supporters are frustrated and we are not performing to an acceptable level. Say what you like, but many of us die hard fans have lost a lot of our love for this club since Neeld has come on board. I can only imagine how the players feel. Speak to the right people and you'll find out that many of our players, our better players, are as frustrated as us supporters and want out. Something has to give. Coaches are not bigger than our club and our club is bleeding. Keep him for the next 10 games or the rest of the season, it makes no difference, but come the end of the year, we need drastic changes. Again. I wish I knew how to fix our club, but I don't. But I do know that it's easier to change the coach than throw out an entire list of players, some of which are actually pretty good or at least has the potential to be. Our club is on a fast track to death. We need to change many things and we need to do it before it's too late, because the one thing we can all agree on, is that none of us want to see this club disappear into oblivion.

When it turns it will turn quickly. Spoken to any Port fans lately? They're not talking about 2012. They're loving this game. Sydney got flogged by us and rebounded to win a premiership less than 50 games later. When Geelong found belief their rise was sudden. Even Melbourne in 2000 showed that a rapid rise is possible. The demographic of this team means that in 2 - 3 years we'll have the experience to be a contender. Whether we have the quality in the midfield is another matter. It's easy to spread the doom and the gloom. Finding light at the end of the tunnel takes far more vision. My vision involves us securing a topline midfielder like Thomas and drafting a ready made star like Selwood. Put Thomas and Selwood into our midfield and add another 2 - 3 seasons of experience to Viney and Toumpas as well as the addition of Jones plus Trengove, Grimes, Sylvia and Howe rotating through and we've got to be getting closer to having a top 4 midfield. As the Swans have shown, a competitive, disciplined, hard working midfield that follows September-driven structures with a couple of game changing forwards can win a flag. In Clark and Hogan I think we have the game turners to be a serious football side. My vision might be fanciful but I prefer it a hell of alot to the Fitzroy-esque devastation that most here seem to take joy in spewing forth. At the end of the day, I follow a footy team and following footy should be fun. I don't know how most of you guys continue to get to games and log in here when you're so devoid of hope. I don't have much hope left either but I'm hanging on to the romantic view that one day we might just get there and in the meantime I try to enjoy the journey and visualise how this crap that we're currently enduring may one day be remembered as the start of something special. Why else would you bother?

Frawley is infinitely more important to this club than Neeld.

It says nothing in Neelds favour.

did you think simon black would say moloney is krap and i dont want him at the club????????

This is one of the major problems with our supporters, they deny reality. They seem to think that if a player is ready to play from day one he will only last a year or two. Why do we continually deny we got it wrong, why do we seem to think that Darling will be a dud when he's proven he's not? Why do we think that Wines will be washed up after his first year and Toumpass will just get better and better; maybe they'll both improve and maybe Wines will be the better. What's wrong with picking players that are capable of playing from day one, like Viney, why do they have to be players that need development, did Selwood need development or was he just a great player from the start. What about Judd, would we have picked him or would we have selected a tall forward prospect with room to improve?

Spot on Stuie. Watch and listen to any top clubs, when they lose a close game or just get over the line, or get pumped like the Pies last week on a rare occasion, they will often mention, among a few other things, that "we gave our opponents too much latitude or/room/space". By not placing intense pressure on the ball carrier for 4 quarters these clubs (and top line players) no too well what the consequences will be. We fail to place enough pressure on the ball carrier for long enough in almost every quarter. Combine this aspect with our slowness in general, terrible skill set and a lack of footy smarts in the top paddock and u have a recipe for perpetual pumpings. In addition the Neeld way of hugging the boundary (bombing it long to a fairly predictable spot) for most defensive sets and then trying to win the ball and run it around the long way is sucking the oxygen and any run we might have out of most players in the first half. Might be a part of the reason we get pumped big time in most 2nd halves. The biggest worry for me is that we have a pretty stubborn coach who might be unwilling to alter the recipe. He appears to have put the cake in the oven which is baking its way to oblivion. Hopefully he notices the burning smell before it's too late.

You are or your? Retardly? Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. Abraham Lincoln

Watts is a much better bet forward than Pederson. Rotate him through with Howe when Dawes and Clark come back in.

Work rate and footy smarts are a big part of what is going wrong. I can't remember who had the ball in a tight situation but hand balled on to Pederson who had a Lions player right on top of him. At first glance poor decision to give off to Pederson but in reality it was Pederson's fault, the player with the ball was drawing an opponent, Pederson should have moved off him to create space. Lazy or stupid??? This is just one example...

If we weren't zoning yesterday I'm Mother Teresa

He is underdone and fighting through it. I told you people not to expect much. You just don't listen...

I have a good idea. Play three 195cm slow, big men on Betts, Garlett & Yarran and tell them to stay nearby in their zones. Should be an interesting experiment ... oh, wait.

Makes you wonder where this form was last year from moloney

We have no leaders, and this is why we struggle. If Brent was at the club I would say this about the club: We have no leaders, and this is why we struggle.

In addition to rpfc's and Ralph's posts; because he did not show enough last year to indicate that he was a "must have". Think between the three of us it's about summed it up.

we lost by 25 goals 3 weeks ago. If Sylvia had kicked a goal at 3:40 in Q4 there would have been 13 points in it. We scored 3 goals less than the opposition without our only 2 key forwards. Unless you have a brain tumour that is an obvious improvement.

Only 10 tackles. What a pathetic effort.

what a dumb management decision by the MFC the guy has proven to be a ball magnet at AFL level and he goes as hard at the ball as anyone in the league He would be a walk up start the the Demon midfield if he was actually available to play Im not saying he is the savior, but he must be [censored] off at the current situation especially when we have spudss like Rodan, Bail, Pederson and Nicholson all getting games in the seniors The management of this club is disgraceful and we never learn from past mistakes.

With all due respect, he's better than Danny Hughes. There are plenty of posts about the lack of bulk in our more recent draftees such as Gysberts, Morton and Watts. But Frawley is also undersized for the job he's given. I am now convinced that the Bailey years have set us back enormously because so many of our players are still physically under-developed and still unfit. And Frawley played pretty well yesterday.

Sheedy can get stuffed, I'd rather the club fold than that [censored] coach is.

Grimes is and always has been susceptible to brain fades. Would you want to see your captain having brain fades? I know I wouldn't. It's not Grimes' fault (or Trenners for that matter) that they were selected captain by the MFC. It was one of the dumbest decisions in modern footy, and is not likely to bear fruit. They can't change the culture by being out of their depth. We had a record of brilliant leaders up until our dark days: Lyon, Viney, Neitz, McDonald. This time round we selected leaders on the basis of idealism not output and this needs to be put right. Chris Newman is an example of a player having the captaincy taken off him and still contributing. It's not the end of the world. It's not like the MFC can embarrass itself any more.

Frawley is by far and away the best Full Back we have had at this club at least since Danny Hughes. I cannot believe some people would even consider being happy to see him go.

We beat Essendon in 2012 so I think your argument is void. We also smashed GWS by 100 points. Also, Brisbane is [censored]. Shadow of the average team it was last year.

If that's the case it's even worse because the players are so loose on their opponents it looks like a zone.

lol..I'm far from Moloney's biggest fan, but what a crock of [censored]. Who is Neeld trying to kid? I'm pretty sure part of why Beamer left was because he was playing at Casey every second week and was not fitting in under Neeld's plan. Making out like they did everything they could to keep him and placing the entire onus on the player is laughable. You don't leave the club you genuinely love just for money. There was alot more at play on both sides, that was clear.

I'm happy to give some leeway to the backs and the forwards until we get an AFL standard midfield.

Talk about encourage supporter discontent. Pathetic comments. It's as if he has no idea where we've been since 2007. Have some respect for the supporter base. "We thought that under five goals on the road was a positive". Supporters won't cop this sort of defeatist attitude. I certainly won't. He is constantly attempting to 'measure' expectations, to the point where it will negatively impact player performance and is undoubtedly fostering complacency within the club.

They've gone backwards at a huge rate of knots too. Doesn't excuse where we are.

Was at the game today and to be fair I think the scoreline flattered us. We got absolutely towelled up in the midfield; it was easily the most frustrating thing to watch how easily Brisbane cleared it out at every centre bounce and even at stoppages around the ground. The main feeling I had all day was that there was so very little pressure on Brisbane when they had the ball, it went end to end easily, and most worrying was their ability to move the ball from the boundary on their HF to an unmaned player on the CHF. Down the end of the ground I was sitting it happened at least half a dozen times and I was ready to pull my hair out watching it happen over and over again. Yet in comparison when Melbourne had the ball we seemed to always be under pressure, rushed and indecisive. We kicked into the man on the mark or were spoiled a number of times because we hesitated in kicking the ball. At stoppages Brisbane were in a training drill, and no matter which direction the ball seemed to get tapped out they had the spare man with another player running off them perfectly where I didn't see more that 1 or 2 examples of that from us for the whole day where I was sitting. As my old man said watching "(Melbourne) really have nothing that gets me excited about the season ahead." As for the standout players I've seen a bit of critism for Terlich but if it weren't for his fists in contests all day long the score would have been so so much worse; he made ground to every contest and saved many sure set shot opportunities. It's hard to shake off or describe the ease with which Brisbane got the ball inside 50 (training drill?) but Garland and Terlich more than did their job given the speed that the ball was coming in at times, and despite some poor clearances from him the effort there in defence from what I saw was very commendable, even the Brisbane supporters around me were giving him raps. Tapscot was good, pushed hard to every contest, was a real terrier and competed well even when outnumber (which seemed to happen so often), laid on bumps and some crunching tackles but also looked dangerous at times in the forward line. Sylvia was exciting for most of the day and I just hope he can string together games were he honestly looks like he's trying as he did today. Busted through a number of tackles, took a couple of good grabs and on a day when disposal was a problem seemed created a lot of drive and opportunity, I was impressed where he usually leaves me questioning his desire. Gawn is a giant and when he was up forward looked dangerous and competed really well for the mark. I couldn't comment on the rucking because whether or not we won the taps we were quite embarrassingly walked over in the middle and at stoppages given no Black and no Rich. Byrnes got more footy than any other Melbourne player today and used it fairly well, except of course for that gift basket kicking into the man on the mark. I haven't taken a lot of notice of Byrnes so far but he seemed to play a solid roll and provided a constant target which not a lot of others did. Though Bail was really exciting and showed a lot in the first part of the game, was agile and hit contests well, winning his own ball and feeding off but I couldn't comment further on his game as most of his possession I think was picked up on the other side of the ground to where I was, as some have eluded to him burning team mates to have shots on goal that I didn't see. McDonald was giving away so much height today, that despite some of his woeful disposal its hard to blame the guy when that matchup was never going to work, he looked dwarfed. Had a few good runs along the defensive boundary when team mates shepparded Rodan had a fair bit of dash but didn't do too much else, though I did note for a 'seasoned' player under pressure he coughed the ball up a number of times, or didn't dispose of the ball to any postive effect to a team mate, giving off 1 complete hospital ball after he let himself get in a bad position that ended up in a turn over. Speaking of woeful disposal, he's a personal favourite as we share a last name but it was painful to see Grimes turn the ball over so often today in that crucial first or second kick out of defence. I see that reports have him down as one of Melbournes best and that I know he was fairly present all around the ground but myself and the family groaned more than a few times from his costly turnovers which resulted in goals and I found it hard to forgive him for those. The only thing I saw of Pederson all day was him running to and from the interchange. Same with Blease. He had an exciting run early, got done holding the ball not long after, and then I didn't see him again until the announcement he'd been subbed. Howe presented well all day but given how he loves to leap there were a few opportunities in the first quarter right beside my spot on the boundary when he was in good position to take a hanger from the back and chose instead to compete on the ground or not go in for the mark at all. Nate Jones was well held today and never really got into the game, though even A lister midfielders have days they can't shake a tag. When we rely so heavily on the guy in the middle I hoped he would fire or that someone else would stand up but it never really eventuated. Others have said it before, Jamar tapped out well today ... to Moloney. Didn't do much of anything when he went forward but did take a decent pack mark and goal, but he did add a bit of height and took his other good mark in defence that would have been a likely goal opportunity for Brisbane. Didn't see too much else from him other than that... Watts was a pleasure and a pain at different times of the day. In defence I honestly now agree with the perspective that he seems lazy at times. Twice while I watched his man made space on him while he seemed to be just ball watching in the middle of the defensive 50 and his direct opponent on both occasions marked inside 50 at CHF after recieving it from boundary when Brisbane were looking to centre it. That said when he went forward he took some fantastic grabs under a bit of pressure, and he held his man off really well to protect the space in front of him a number of times resulting in him being able to push off and get to the ball first. His goal from the boundary was sensational. Not sure what to grade his day at given the contrasting performances, would his enjoyment of his role be the reason for his lethargy? Davey didn't get much of a chance, tried to take a hanger but forgot to put his hands out instead of using them to climb onto 2 defenders shoulders. Had the chance to do one of his bread and butter chase down and tackles in the last as well but doesn't seem to have that extra gear he once did and couldn't catch his man. Thats all from me, there was a bit to like about the first quarter but from there on it just felt like we were "hanging in there", that Brisbane were having a training drill at times and not putting us away when they had the chance and most of all that we got completely torn up in the midfield!

2012 at the Gabba Brisbane 18 14 122 Melb 8 13 61

The biggest con sold to supporters in a decade.

Mark Thompson, 2006. After SIX YEARS in charge of his team, they miss the finals and suffer losses of 52, 102, 92, and 61 points (the latter at the hands of the lowly Hawks, no less!). I imagine you blokes - had you been Cats supporters - would have been highly vocal in your support of him, given your surety that he was on the cusp of building the greatest team of the modern era. Oh wait.

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to use the term 'apologists' for anyone trying to sound reasoned or logical. Stop calling those who at least try to sound calm and collected 'apologists'. No one's apologising for anything. You can disagree with people, fine, but your inability to deal with reasoned posts is worrying. We were missing our key forwards. Is that untrue? No. Does that have an impact on our performance? Yes. Is that the reason we lost? No, but who said that? The fact is, we lost by 28 points despite having no forward line, the logic there being - maybe if we'd had a forward line we'd have kicked a few more goals. Does that make sense to you? I doubt it. I'm not apologising for anything, but I'm sure you think I'm an 'apologist'. We suck. I don't disagree. We weren't good today, I don't disagree. Brisbane suck, and we lost to them, sure. But West Coast is lower than them on the ladder and a fortnight ago we lost to them by 94 points at home. Today we lost to a side above them on the ladder by 28.

Rohan Bail should be dropped for torching his teammates four times and missing shots at goal instead. Cost us massively, as all were at important stages of the match too....

i think most Demonlanders over rate our team. We dont have enough good players and this will take a long time to turn players over and improve the ones with potential.

I thought I saw him get crunched going back for a mark in the first half. That was more like what we want to see. Body on the line when it's his turn. He can do it, but he has to want the contest. Also saw his flat footed chase in the first half. Was screaming at the TV for Jack to do more than jog. However, I saw MANY Melbourne players ambling along at half rat power behind Bris players today, and in qtr 2 and 3 last week against GWS. Stumbling around like lost drunks. Surely when they do video reviews this is shown to them. No chase, no pressure. Must be embarrassed when they see it played back. It can't be fitness when it's in the first half.

If you think we suck now, wait until Chip goes.