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I have been reading a lot about the Demons lately - as most of us probably are - and have been trying to formulate my own unbiased opinion about which way the club is headed: up or down. Personally I think we are headed up - and have come a long way - it's just that we started from so far down, to the rest of the world we still look disorganised, uncontrolled, demotivated and below standard... But in the back of my head I recall an interview with Woosha about the rise of the West Coast in 2011. (For some background information, West Coast's end of season positions since 2006 have been 1st, 3rd, 15th, 11th, 16th, 4th, 5th.) I cannot remember where I saw the interview, and if anyone can find it that would be great, but I think it was probably during On The Couch or something similar because I recall hearing the question as well as the answer (why can't reporters be mic'd at press conferences???)... The question went along the lines of: "For the last three years you have been pretty terrible - last year you even won the wooden spoon. Now you are in the top four. What have you done different? What changes have you made?" The answer: "Nothing. We have been working on this training plan and gameplan for a few years, and the players have finally caught up with how we want them to play." I think this is exactly where the Demons are at. 12 goals in one quarter is an accomplishment - even considering the opposition. In our 150+ year history, this surely isn't the first new team we have played against. A lot of people seem to be sick of the rebuild of the rebuild of the rebuild. I concur. But not for the same reasons.I don't see this as a rebuild at all. Quite simply, its a build. Build our club; build our momentum; build our supporter base; build our profitability; build our professionalism; build our player list. But build it right. Stuff the media - it's their job to whinge and whine - but be nice to them, they cant help it, they are like politicians - all about "What's in it for me?" The attitude you get from selfish people that have no concept of bonding teamwork. And stuff the critics. They are probably all Collingwood supporters anyway and who wants to listen to them? I have been supporting the Demons for as long as I can remember. My father is English and supports Liverpool and my mother can recognise the Demons Guernsey and knows if we are doing well or not, so not so sure how I got this passionate for them - but the one thing that being a Demons supporter has absolutely taught me is loyalty. Whether we win 1 game in a year, or every game in a year, I will still wear my Demons guernseys/shirts/jumpers/sweaters at every opportunity and I will always look forward to the next match. I do hope that the Demons win a premiership* - hell, I hope they win them all - but just like I wouldn't kick my kids out for underperforming, I will never turn my back on the Demons because I believe that, just like Neeld, Craigy and the entire club keeps saying, the players are doing what is required of them and just like Woosha said, at some point everything will fall into place, and the Demons will return to the top of the ladder where they will see the success we are all waiting for. * I would prefer the Demons premiership winning run to wait until I can afford annual trips down from Brisbane to the MCG with my family of five... but understand if they aren't willing to wait that long.

KC, I can't express how helpful it is that you do this for us all on D'Land. Thanks for all you do mate. It's a big help.

Forget what people say, I'll be booing that lying traitor until the day he hangs up his boots.

I went along to the game tonight but missed the first 10 minutes. Casey is normally windy but tonight is was ridiculous. At one point I had to move because my eyes were watering into the wind! I was really impressed with the coach - I think it is Rohan Welsh. Clear instructions that were concise and to the point. It was a tough night for good footy. 4-5 goal wind for most of the night. Dunn was outstanding. He played loose across half back, which I know is the easiest position in footy, but his reading of the play followed by his kicking was superb. If Watts does not play well, Dunn comes straight back in. Strauss. Played a very good game. Had a little bit of run-and-carry through the middle and delivered well most times. He appeared quicker than I remembered him. Taggert. I really like this kid. Strong over the ball, showed some gut running and kicked well. Was very smart at times using the ball into the wind. Kicked three (I think) Fitzpatrick.Great game. Proved a handful for Williamstown every time he was near the ball. Ran all night, flew for every mark and his pace was amazing. Seemed to have iron hands a bit - the ball bounced off them when he had a clear chance at marking. An impressive game considering the wind made it a shocking night for tall players. Hogan. Didn't see him get it too much. Toumpas. He got to a lot of contests but didn't seem to impact many of them. However, in the last quarter he was superb. His kicking to position against the wind was really good and he got in an under in defence when needed. Dawes. Not a great game. When he kicked for goal I am sure he did not kick through the ball well, and it seemed he was holding back on a full effort. I doubt he will play for the Dees against Carlton. His positioning and defensive efforts were good at times. Davis. He gets to a lot of contests and plays hard when he needs to. Kent. I was not sure of his number until the game was almost over so I am unsure how he went. Dunn, Strauss and Fitzpatrick played worthily enough to be considered for game against Carlton. Taggert maybe.

Glad I wasn't required to be employee of the month in the first 5 weeks of my first job at 18yo... Give the kid a chance for FFS.

Relax folks. Apparently nothing more than a bad corkie. Off for the night anyway. NOw, where do I find a hot dog in this darkness?

No accident or a right royal blunder?

Thanks to those who reported on the game. I'd love mjt to tell us just 1 thing the MFC has done right, but not in this thread. His computer will probably melt if he does - vey boring and predictable.

Any chance we could return to the topic of the thread and how the scorpions went instead of an MJT threeonesix [censored] thread? Any reports from the ground / stats etc? Cheers

No, it shows that Ablett is one of the greatest players to ever play the game. Yes our midfield is rubbish but Ablett is gold covered in diamonds. He IS an A grade midfield all on his own. PS- karma is a [censored] Scully you gutless [censored].

Brisbane didn't offer him anything near that. The paltry compensation we got from the AFL for both Rivers and Moloney was partly based on the contracts they were getting at their new clubs. Brisbane wasn't prepared to pay big money for Moloney because they know his shortcomings. Hence, we got SFA for him. Same with Rivers.Beamer was always capable of performing against weaker clubs and not so good against the stronger clubs. Last year, he had the wrong attitude, wanted out and had ... ahem ... some issues. I don't miss him at all. The club has to move forward. Changing clubs doesn't necessarily make you a better player as Ricky Petterd proved last night. I like the bloke but he still has troubles hitting the proverbial barn door.

Mate I was fed up with Moloney long before Neeld was even on the horizon so you can take your smart-arse [censored] and cram it. He was a selfish player who refused to do the hard yards and for a front-runner didn't even hurt the opposition on the scoreboard averaging 1 goal every 4 games. He had no ability to lower his eyes and hit up a target, he played footy like I played in the under 13's just get it and bash it forward as far and high as you can. Look at his game against North last year, 3 times he kicked it into the forward line without looking directly to the opposition when on at least two of those occasions he could have hit up a shorter option.

Toumpas impressed, not so much his game - though he has silky skills - but the way he got pummelled three times in the last quarter, he was hurt, but got up, got into it and continued to put himself in the firing line. The kid will be a gem mark my words.

Folks, there's been a fair bit of unnecessary bickering on this thread tonight. Any more will result in immediate bans being put into effect. Thanks.

Thanks for the reports people I like freedom of speech and all that but seriously there should be some sort of policy on cretins who hijak threads with garbage If a post annoys every single person that reads it, its author should be dealt with

I don't care if he plays at casey most of the year. I don't get why our draftees are expected to carry our senior guys in their first 5 minutes at the club. Yes, jimmy is a outside jet that is the cream on top and not a grunt mid but as he develops so too will our grunt insiders Matt Jones, viney, kent and Taggart. Add that list to Nate Jones, Grimes, Sylvia, Howe, Trengrove.... I'm pretty bloody excited by our recruiting!

Could we keep this news from Jaded. Who knows what she might do?

"One trick pony" ......"Down-hill skier" ....... not a leaders "bootlace" ...... sullen and self-absorbed. If we are destined to ever have a future that we can be proud of, it sure as hell won't be built around players with those characteristics.

Can someone please explain to me why the AFL would come out and say we hadn't been forthcoming with information about bates and dank when it looks like we had in february?

No responsibility here to be shouldered by Mr Moloney?

This article makes me even more angry at the AFL and specifically Demetriou, what a pathetically armature response from him when the 7:30 report story came out. He put petrol on this firestorm of controversy for us, when if he'd bothered to look at and state the facts it would actually have shown that we did in fact inform the AFL of the relationship. We then did a meticulous internal review and it was the club doctor who lied to us (I guess they'll fine us another $500k for employee acting without approval and lying). The 7:30 report also made references (while naming players) to 5 substances that we did not use and the one that we did was not banned. This article also answers my earlier question of whether Trenners could find himself in trouble for using this cream, the answer is no. So to review: - we informed the AFL of the relationship as soon as we knew and terminated it immediately - we (and certain players) have been associated with substances that we did not use - as far as anyone can see, the doctor and Dank (who clearly leaked the info the ABC) were the only ones with any knowledge of this cream and it was not illegal at the time of use so there can be no retrospective action on Trenners. Bates did not inform the club during its review and he has stood down - Demetriou instead of taking a breath and contacting Melbourne before going on the radio post 7:30 spoke extremely heavy handed about us and chose not to reveal that we had in fact told the AFL about communications with Dank. Now who's the liar Andy?

Is that his natural game to not chase defensively or play with any accountability? His passion was all chest pumping and little substance. I don't miss him at all.

Took the family in to the open training at the Gabba today and had a great time! The team did a lot of drills, handballing, kicking and shots on goal. They split up for a little bit and did some area drills. The defenders did a drill with four of them... three running towards the goal - middle one picks up the ball, hand passes to the guy to his left, who handpasses to the guy running across from the right who handpasses to the guy running away from the goals who kicked it out to the mids. Most of the kicks were pretty accurate and the entire team was very vocal for the whole session - you could clearly hear them from the other side of the Gabba! The team then came over and signed whatever was available and handed out posters and stickers and such. Had a chat with Max Gawn for a few - says he used to eat 16 weetbix when he was growing up, but has cut back to 8! The team was all in great spirits and am looking forward to a great game tomorrow!

I got on to this post tonight and never realised how funny some of you guys are and then I realised that you were being serious. C'mon are we really writing off jimmy t after 5 rounds. You should all be ashamed of yourselves. Oh and by the way get lives

Apologies for lack of transmission but I had iPhone issues tonight. Still a great win for the Casey Scorpions with some great signs for the remainder of the year for Melbourne with quite a few players returning to the park. More reports tomorrow.

You potted Todd Viney who was not recruiter for the last 7 years, go and troll somewhere else

Thats what Gysbetts,Watts,Blease, Strauss, Cook, Fitzpatrick, Morton and whoever i left out thought, FMD pick a kid with muscle on his frame, you know like the strong clubs do, Stringer from the Dogs has showed more in the 1st half than Toumpas has showed in the first 5 games.

The thing i find the most pleasing about casey is when the senior players come back to casey they seem to play really well get their confidence right up and play well when they are recalled, it's exactly what you want from your reserves

It's all the positive vibes he's received from D'land!

Glad your not in charge.

There might be some truth to this. The following is an excerpt from the article on the official website about strengthening the ties between Casey and MFC. "On match day, Nichol is also the Casey backline coach and Melbourne forward line development coach Paul Satterley is also the Casey forward line coach. Melbourne midfield coach Aaron Greaves also works closely with Casey midfield coach Steve O’Brien, and provides feedback at games. Throughout the article, the other MFC assistant/development coaches (ie, Nichol and Satterley) are mentioned as such. Greaves, however, is referred to as the Melbourne midfield coach - not as the assistant midfield coach. Suspect it's no accident.

I must have been educated in a parallel universe to that of some of these modern day lawyers and doctors. Reading Samantha Lane's report in today's Age Scientist set to sue Demetriou, I can't help but feel more than somewhat bemused by the language used by Stephen Dank's lawyer about his client's intentions to sue the pants off anyone in sight in the current drug scandal. The lawyer who asked not to be named (what lawyer would pass up the opportunity for some free publicity?) said: ''We propose to bring a defamation action against Andrew Demetriou on the grounds of him denigrating Mr Dank, and accusing him of all sorts of things he didn't do. That will definitely be going ahead." Fair dinkum, lawyers don't even talk like that in John Grisham and Michael Connolly novels! Now, I'm not suggesting this bloke got his law degree from a Corn Flakes packet but I doubt that Vlad is exactly quaking in his boots this morning. The other interesting piece of news is contained in revelations that Melbourne was more up front with the AFL over Dank than we had previously been led to believe Dealing with Dank. It changes the level of some of the comments made about the club, affects the impact of governance concerns (but won't deter the critics) and doesn't really change the issue of the responsibility of those in charge of the running of the club. it's not inconceivable this all this is connected with the team's dismal performances given that many of the players were going about their business knowing that publicly, at least, their club was "living a lie" about the Danks situation. In practical terms, the revelations of the past few days mean that, on the face of it, the club should not face AFL sanctions but captain Jack Trengove might be in trouble over his possible use of AOD9604 in cream form although, as the report states, "any such prosecution would face serious legal hurdles." What intrigues me about that is the alleged letter of comfort Dank supposedly had from ASADA about the status of AOD9604. I've read that both Essendon's people and Bates were told of the letter but neither has a copy. This suggests at the least, gross incompetence on their behalves. In this day and age where it's so simple to request a copy via SMS or email, you would think it standard practice on the part of a medical practitioner dealing with supplements such as these to insist on having a copy on his file before sending the patient out to purchase and use the cream. If, as some have suggested, the letter never existed then, apart from being naieve in the extreme in accepting Dank's word for it, then it could be more than negligence on the part of the doctor. It might well be argued that Bates, and by extension his patient Trengove, were victims of a fraud. Given that players do have an out on the basis of a WADA principle of "no fault or negligence", based on athletes proving they did not know what they were being given by sports scientists or doctors, the possible element of fraud should get Jack Trengove off any possible charges. On the other hand, if the ASADA letter did exist, then he must get off the hook anyway as a victim of ASADA's negligence. So if Dank's lawyers want to prove that their client is of good character and his reputation is one which is worthy of being upheld by our legal system, one thing they could do to assist in proving it would be to produce the goods - in this case, the letter.

Jones had a good year but I wouldn't go comparing him to Hodge or Selwood or Pendlebury or Bartel or Mitchell etc etc Fact is the MFC saw what I saw which is why they got rid of him, but I guess you know better than the MFC. There's a difference between output and mindset. Why do you guys think Moloney was sent back to Casey last year? Yeah so many weren't "buying in" because for the most part they're a bunch of overpaid prima donnas who crack the sads when someone comes along and gives them some home truths. Ablett, Mooney and Steve Johnson took the criticism on board and turned into consistent premiership players. Moloney had a hissy fit and refused to lead the club by example. Neeld would have loved to have had him as a big experienced player leading the younger kids but I guess you think he just likes sacrificing senior players for the sake of it because he is some evil egomaniac or something. Neeld's fate is tied to the players, if he thought Moloney would have helped him improve the teams performance, don't you think he would have kept him? Jesus we're talking about a guy who as a supposedly senior player and grown adult got so drunk he couldn't remember if he [censored] on the bar or not.

Because the coach moved his cheese. Whether it was the right thing or not doesn't matter now. His attitude sucked balls when he should have manned up and lead by example. For this reason I don't miss him a single iota.

I think Chip got unfairly criticised for the GWS game, his opponent Cameron had his first posession in the 3rd quarter! Frawleys decision makng was a bit poor at times, but so were just about all 22 of our players in what was awfully scrappy and poor standard first 3 quarters. In contrast, Tom McDonald had Five goals kicked on him by Setanta O Hailpin, an average footballer at best. I dont see people calling for his head.

Rubbish, he didnt want to do what he was asked to do and he wanted to play for brent moloney and not be a team player.

Hugging Setanta? Did Jordan give him that first free kick? I kid, I kid. But did he? I'm in a wheelchair myself, have been since I was 18 (34 now), I got pretty sick last year, actually I went straight to hospital from the Richmond game in April, I had pneumonia, couldn't breathe on the way home. Ended up code blue, pretty much died, before being saved, had another code blue a couple of days later, spent 2 weeks in ICU. Watching your friends and family go through that [censored] is worse than going through it. I would have given up but I didn't want them to go through all that for nothing. I still haven't fully recovered, been in and out of the Austin since, they are brilliant, apart from all this I've never spent time in hospital, but I assume there's not much better care you can get. So Rick is in good hands. I now live about 10 minutes from Kilmore too, so I guess I felt I relate to this story and had to spill my guts. I hate horses though.

By the way, I hope Moloney has a shocker tomorrow and is subbed off

Ha ha ! Suppose if the Bills really wanted him and were committed then they may have felt compelled to grab him with pick 16. They may not have been confident of him being available by the time their next pick was up (pick 48?) Just a quick heads up on who supports who here (from memory) With apologies to anyone I've missed ... Philadelphia - Dappa Dan (Dappa started this thread) and 45HG Washington - jezzzza, Demon Land 7 Giants - JT9 San Francisco - QueenC, DemonDave, Titan_Uranus and Whispering Jack St Louis - condemned 84, New Age Hipster. Jets - Dr Gonzo KC - pantaloons Denver - Cards13 Minnesota - cowboy from hell, daisycutter Chicago - old dee Green Bay - DirtyDees DDC, Macca Houston and Seattle have a few fans who haven't posted for a while. I think you're the only Bengals fan, Strafford.

This is a man who was shopping himself around halfway through last year. Good riddance.

It's clear you've got an anti-Neeld agenda (like your mates Hardnut and Tonatopia) so there's no point trying to point out the obvious to you. Whether he left under FA or not is irrelevant as the club did nothing to try and keep him and relegated him to Casey last year, that should tell you something. I wasn't comparing Moloney to those other players (it was Jones), I was pointing out that while Jones had a good year which got him a B&F at the end of the day B&F's in poor teams mean next to nothing because neither Jones or Moloney can stack up against the best midfielders in the league. Fact is, you've got no idea about this or any other topic I've seen you post on. Moloney was a lazy front runner before Neeld got to the club and I already had an opinion on that while Bailey was still coach. He's not the only one, our club has been full of lazy front runners for years. Yze, Johnstone, Bruce, White, Robertson all of them afflicted with the same bruise-free laziness. I guess I've been "sucked in" by Neeld about them too huh? What about Stef Martin, now that he's gone I guess he was the second coming of Polly Farmer but that dastardly Neeld just wouldn't give him a go. Lucas Cook could've been the next Carey and Gysberts the next Pendlebury if only Neeld wasn't such a mean old bully. Go ahead and post some stupid pic though that seems to be the only way you have to compensate for your utter lack of basic football knowledge.

He may have got possessions but I'm more interested in what he did with the footy once he got it, how damaging he was to the opposition and how hard he was willing to run back to pressure and defend space.

i'll get in first with 'weve heard it all before' that's not being deliberately negative, that's just the facts of the matter. In 2010 we matched the premiers twice, finished on 8.5 wins and the future looked very rosy with a whole stable of supposed future stars. People, including the media, were talking seriously about multiple premierships. What happened? We failed spectacularly.

Don't mind me senile. At least I got the right division lol. Somehow I even mucked up who condemned supported. Honestly can't explain it. Even confused what I thought the Vikings gave the Pats. Somehow I thought the Vikings gave up 2 2nds a 3rd and a 4th. Wasn't on the grog or on any illicit substances, despite seemingly evidence to the contrary. The Bengals did take Eifert though, I didn't imagine that in my twilight zone did I? I'll try again. My most surprising pick was Manuel to the Bills. Surely he wasn't that better than the other QB's to take him that high. I really can't see anyone else who would have taken him before the seond round.

Well Steve - till you win check out this website for them: http://www.cars-on-line.com/mustang_2.html I want a '67 - possible Eleanor conversion and a bit cheaper than the Bullitt... which you can find with this link: http://www.cars-on-line.com/mustang_1.html They are USA stangs, but as long as they are under 59k (so you dont have to pay 30% for luxury car tax), just customs tax, importing costs and GST... plus about 12k if you want a good conversion to RHD (but you dont need to because its over 30 years old) and another 1.5k for a engine rebuild... one day mate - one day!.. or as you said one powerball!

Do you mean the situation where he had to learn the defensive side of his game, so he could play both ways and make him a more rounded player?Yeah, I saw his talent. He gave his all downhill and put in for the club and ran a couple of boxing camps at his beloved 'Bool to fasttrack and toughen some kids up. Ask yourself how he lead by example against the decent midfields...perhaps that's the point you're making Hardnut re: why his game went south - being asked to lead by example?

People should read up about Operation Puerto which was an investigation into doping, which implicated a huge number of cyclists in a far worse manner than a bit of cream for a foot. And I am almost certain no direct sanctions came from that. Sure riders were target tested and tests positive overtime, but it takes more evidence than a text or even a few words to sanction an athlete. Btw, this isn't defending jack or the club, just merely saying how I see any potential bans playing out. Hopefully he, and others, have little to worry about.

It was alluded to in the texts that Jack should have AOD for his foot. The next question is whether he applied the cream, and then the most important question is whether you can prove it. You would want to be damn sure of it before whacking a player with a year or two ban, and anything short of an admission or a positive test isn't good enough. Again, just have have to wait and see what pans out. I have followed cycling for years, and riders don't get banned unless they test positive, make an admission or are caught in possession pretty much.

Thanks Alotta ... like you I enjoy strident debate and I'll always speak my mind on a subject without worrying about those who throw barbs. I know most people realise I do so because of my loyalty to the club. Happy to have a drink (diet coke only*) with you or any of the blokes but will bring along my son bodyguard Blistering just in case the going gets rough (only joking). Anyhow, this is not about me so thanks to the mod who closed the thread a few minutes ago. Let's concentrate on the footy ... * I have a bet going which, if the Dees get up against Brisbane, will see me with a plentiful supply of diet coke to share around.