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Good to see the boys out celebrating after a 96 point loss and an 0-3 start

Winter is Coming One of the more engaging ideas in George RR Martin's Game of Thrones is the looming Winter that finally comes after a decade long summer, and with the winter, the lifeless and violent 'White Walkers' who descend from the North. For the people of the Northern lands, in Winter, the body suffers and the mind grows weak. In our great Southern Land, after record temperatures over the Pre-season, and record losses to start to the season proper, a long Winter is coming for the Melbourne Football Club. I would posit that the combined skills, talent and experience of our playing list has not been reflected in our results, losses of 78, 148 & 94 points. This implies that something other ability is contributing to our poor performance. After being 'privileged' enough to view the Dees first hand at the G over the past three rounds, here are my humble observations as to what these contributing factors are: Gameplan + Fitness: The body suffers. Neeld has brought a gameplan to the Dees, fundamentally built on 'Team Defense', which for him is validated by the success of this approach during his time as both defensive and midfield coach at Collingwood, the 2010 Premiers. What has become apparent in all three games this season is that Melbourne's defensive zone is too easily penetrated by rival clubs. Whether or not his defensive zone works in theory, his desire to implement at a time when his players are not appropriately fit for AFL (as he has himself admitted) is a key reason for such high losing margins. This was particularly evident this week. After a competitive half against the Eagles, it became clear to me (at least) that the players were unable to sustain the intensity required to make a defensive zone effective - primarilly due to fitness. By leaving their opponents and setting up a zone, yet unable to generate defensive pressure, Melbourne is allowing opponent teams to move the ball, uncontested, from end to end. Mentally, this eases the pressure on opposing teams and the Wall breaks...cue the 'White Walkers'. Mindset: The mind grows weak. Football has become increasingly complicated and mentally challenging for players. Young men are micro-managed by a bevvy of coaching and fitness staff. For many young Demons, the weight of expectation that comes with being high draft picks, the suffocating media analysis that follows losing performances - or in-house and off-field issues - compounds the natural anxiety which arises from fear of failure. A lack of fitness cannot simply explain the appalling first half defensive efforts against Essendon and Port Adelaide. Many players, if not all, seem to to remain psychologically scarred from the enormous losses that ended Dean Bailey's career as coach. We cannot know all the reasons why the Melbourne mindset is so weak, and many theories are well documented, but it clearly continues to contribute to our losses. We do not know what happens inside the club, but it seems fair to suggest that Neeld has been unable to rebuild the mental strength of the players, and is possibly adding to the psychic wounds by persisting with a gameplan that the players cannot implement over four quarters. Playing List: Winter is Coming: For the Dees, it will be a long winter, regardless of gameplan or mindset. Our playing list lacks the skills, talent and experience to have any serious impact on season 2013. When players cannot hit targets by foot over short distances, handball behind or above teammates running past to receive, and drop uncontested marks in the backline, gameplan and mindset are not relevant. Confidence does matter, and with confidence comes improved play, but we remain disappointingly poor at the fundamentals of the game, despite endless of hours of coaching and development. Neeld has chosen to slowly rebuild by giving the 2011 team a chance to display their wares, before culling heavily at the end of 2012. He does not have to answer to criticism for poor skills and decision making by players with 50 plus games experience. What Next? A Winter of Wonders For me, reducing the pain over the coming Winter will depend on the path Neeld and the coaching staff choose to take. I am certain that if a simplified gameplan - man on man defense for example - was implemented, the losing margins would significantly reduce, as opposition teams would face an extended contest across the ground. The issue here is that Neeld came to the club with the promise of a gameplan. To give up on his beloved defensive zone would be difficult, and make his job position highly vulnerable to attack based on his failure to 'bring a gameplan'. To not give up his gameplan would possibly leave him even more vulnerable to an early season sacking. Even if his gameplan will one day work, losses to teams such as GWS and the Suns would likely end his career. I do wonder what will happen next, and can only hope Neeld and his men find the appropriate strategy, but hold no illusions that the coming cold will somehow be to our benefit. Note: Much of what is written here has been written elsewhere and I acknowledge all those who contribute their ideas on this site. For my own sanity, I needed to write it down so as to hopefully stop thinking about it.

How good would wines be in our side? Not as good as he is with corners, boak and co surrounding him. Bet Toumpas would be looking better and we would be saying, "should have taken Toumpas"

No disrespect to Toumpas, but this kid has everything we need and more. Just watching the Showdown and he's taken it by the throat with 22 possssions and 2 goals. Easily in the top 3 or 4 on the ground. "A ready made gun midfielder who supports Melbourne and is Viney's best mate? We'll pass thanks." F me...

Do others who have foxtel find it annoying that they put the scores of the other games being played on the screen, Those of us like me who tape the other games then have that ruined by knowing the scores. PS. My remedy has been to place my granddaughter's toy dog in front of the spot where the score appears. Is it just me?

Apparently Sylvia ordered the Fluffy Duck and Chip mistook it for his Shandy.

His mark today was one of the best I've seen. It won't be rated that highly because the camera doesn't explain the difficulty, but it was extraordinary. Running at pace, the wrong way, he leaps on his opponents shoulders to take the mark. Amazing. He was hopelessly out of position to beat his opponent. I've never seen a mark of this type in 40 years. Thankfully it was "right in front of me".

There is a bloke named Chris Masten who cut us apart yesterday. His first few seasons he was much maligned and struggled to find the pace of afl. Get off Toumpas back you poor excuses for supporters.

I'm not sure why we kept Couch on if we weren't going to promote Magner to the senior list.

We failed to develop Cook to the extent that no one even rookied him and he is playing VFL seconds. On his first training run with us he cried. In his first Casey practice match, he gibbed a ball pick up so badly, my son said "this guy will never play a game of AFL." He was right, off one incident. How long did the worst recruiter in AFL history BP spend looking at Cook? Every other recruiter laughed at us when we took him. Look at our midfield, we don't have one. Yes blame our development. Of course, we should have developed the sub standard players we drafted and made them good. BP has killed us. I would sue him for return of his salary.

Today made it patently obvious to me just how poorly coached our players have been. - Colin Garland's constant indecision about when to go towards the ball and when to peel back is just ridiculous. This should have been picked up by the coaches and gotten out of his game 3 years ago. It would have been identified and resolved at other clubs. - Our entire backline (and most of our midfield for that matter) seem to think they should never move towards the ball until after their opponents have. What's wrong with attacking it and taking the mark yourself instead of giving up prime position and waiting back?? Once again, needs to be corrected by the coaches. - Tom McDonald (although I thought he was good today) gave up a mark in the goal square to Darling where McDonald had the front position and and managed to give it up without laying a finger on Darling. Who the fark is coaching these guys?? His hand should have been back feeling for his opponent so he had some idea of where he was going to come from. How can we keep making these mistakes every single week?? - It's also the coaches jobs to ensure the team is mentally prepared to compete for 4 quarters. The excuse about how good the Eagles midfield was is complete rubbish. The 3rd quarter was embarrassing and non competitive. How the fark can we have so many less tackles than WCE and so much less of the ball. That is 100% a mindset issue and something good coaching would sort out! I don't buy into the talk of our list being the crappest going around. By expanding the league to 18 teams the result is that every club in the AFL carries some relatively average players in their 22 each week. Other clubs teach these players how to fulfill their roles and we simply don't. I agreed with Neeld's demands on the players when he arrived, but I am concerned that perhaps he didn't approach it the right way with the individuals themselves. Despite our 'Football University' approach there doesn't seem to be too many players that are improving greatly. The line coaches also need to take responsibility for the lack of progress in all 3 areas of the ground. Good coaching would see this group competitive quickly enough. I am getting concerned that if we continue like this, we will see a max exodus of good players at the end of the year (including Frawley although he doesn't seem to give a $hit anymore anyway) which will make it that much harder for a new coach.

Ok let's calm down with the big calls regarding a player 3 games in playing for the worst team on earth. Very harsh and stupid. However I agree that he should not be playing. I feel sorry for him actually. He is not ready and he needs to get a feel for AFL footy at Casey (it's the same level of talent when it comes to Melbourne anyway). We are destroying his confidence. He looks really shattered. It's not fair to him.

The three-year contract is looking good, big men take a while to develop.

The George Costanza School of Recruiting. Works for me.

No being a member does not entitle you to that, it entitles you to a vote in club elections and entry to AGM's but it doesn't entitle you to the full story. As for the club being on the verge of extinction, there's nothing like an over exaggeration to support a crap proposition.

If the club had any brains they'd find a way to motivate and retain obvious talent like Frawley and develop it

I will be honest up front and state I work for Foxtel in the area of product development (some of you know this already). My personal opinion is I actually like it as it stops me flicking between games to see the score unless there is some relevance e.g: I turned over for the final minutes of Cats v Blues when it got tight towards the end. To me its not much different to being at the G yesterday and having the Swans/Roos scores on the big screen. I can however see how it would be an annoyance for others. Such a decision is made by the production teams at the Fox Footy channel and I will pass this feedback on via my contacts. NB: this is not an opportunity to slam me with a ton of feedback/questions regarding Foxtel but I feel in this case such feedback is relevant for me to deliver.

The club does not need its best players walking.

Our second half aggregate is 6.8.44 to 39.31.265. It's unacceptable. We won 7 out of Bailey's first 46 matches as coach then went 15-18-2 out of the next 35. We had a bad game against the Hawks & then were incinerated by Geelong during an inconsistent season amidst a backdrop of interference in the FD by key admin. Bailey copped it in the neck because our "talented youth" were underperforming. We then hire a bloke who has come in with all the subtlety of a bull in a china shop. Surely he was hired to get the best out of Bailey's youth as well as teach them how to defend better while still being able to spread offensively (in the 30 games since Bailey was sacked we've passed 100 5 times & 3 of those were under flipping Viney!). Instead he's got rid of more senior players as well as underdeveloped youth, got nothing for Bate when he had the chance & replaced those players with cast offs/VFL players. The only players on the list to have markedly improved are N Jones, Clark & T McDonald while others' careers have gone down the gurgler. We've won 5 out of 30 games since Bailey was sacked & four of those are against the expansion sides - Neeld has turned a mosquito bite into a festering sore. If he doesn't go & this garbage continues it will cost us millions of dollars in lapsed membership & sponsors. It will cost us our few good players on the list, it could cost us our club into the longer term. No individual is bigger than the club - seeya Mark!

I'm of the view that Neeld needs to be shown the door immediately before this group's confidence and ability to turn it around is destroyed completely, if it's not already. I didn't think it was possible to feel more hopeless than I did in 2008, but zing! Here it is.

I know I know it's early days but man Oliver wines would have been great and I for one was keen to get him.

After being sidelined with concussion for a long time he returned yesterday only to be taken off the ground for a concussion test. He,his family and team mates must be concerned about what lies ahead. I dip my lid to you Rohan. You're not the best player and I have given you plenty over the years when it comes to your football skills. Yesterday you looked pretty sharp and had a crack all day. I will never ever question your endeavor.

Look at Sydney on the weekend. Their top 2 contested possession midfielders were Kennedy and O'Keefe with 18 and 17 respectively. Other than that they had Parker next best with 10. From there they surround them with high quality runners like Hannebery, McVeigh, Malceski, Shaw, Mattner, Goodes etc. We have Jones as a high quality inside midfielder and Viney, who we assume will be. Other than that we have guys like Trengove, McKenzie, Magner etc who can play as an inside midfielder, but the top teams have show that you only need 2 plus a defensive stoppage midfielder (like Jordan Lewis, Luke Ball, etc) which is the role best suited to both Trengove and McKenzie. Examples of this are Sydney, Collingwood (Pendlebury/Swan + Ball), Hawthorn (Mitchell/Hodge + Lewis), Richmond (Cotchin/Tuck + Jackson), West Coast (Priddis/Kerr + Masten), St Kilda (Hayes/Dal Santo + Steven), Adelaide (Thompson/Dangerfield) and Geelong (Bartel/Selwood + Corey) etc. But we really, really lack the outside runners that the good teams have. On the weekend (and in previous weeks) we have been killed on the spread and quick transitions where we haven't had enough guys that can cover the ground quickly enough. Look at Hawthorn, who have been bringing in as many high level runners as they can (Hill, Anderson, Shiels, Bruest, Savage, Smith, Duryea) in addition to their quality outside players like Birchall, Suckling, Guerra, Rioli etc. West Coast ran us off our feet, and there will be many teams that will do this to us this year as we just don't have the runners in our side. That's why Evans came in quickly, Bail as soon as he was fit. We need damaging outside players that just outrun their opponents, just like Toumpas. He represents a greater need than the inside midfield (which we already have mostly covered for the future). Don't agree? Have a look at our drafting last year. Other than Viney and Hogan (both exceptional circumstances), we picked Barry, Toumpas, Kent, M Jones, Terlich, Stark and Clisby. There is a common theme and it is very much in running ability, particularly outside the stoppages.

Now we're getting somewhere.

Wingard (pick 4 2011) looked pretty damn average in his first year last year. Now i've seen him twice this year, he has really come on. IIRC he was also drafted straight out of the SANFL. Wines was always going to impact straight away. Everyone needs to stop blowing their loads early and give Jimmy T a couple of years.

Hogan will smash him.

I think we need to lay off young Jimmy, it is just stupid crap by any poster to have a go. I think Jimmy will be a great player. NOW HERE IS THE RUB I have zero confidence that the Melbourne Football Club is capable of developing young Jimmy. This club will [censored] up any young player who comes into the club, That's the real deal and that's why I have had a gut full

Wow. AFL player has a few drinks and has a little push and shove with another player.... In other news, PSY releases his second single.

The players are paid. If he is gong backwards then I blame him. Self motivation is something an AFL footballer should never lose. Personal pride in your trade as a fullback is essential.

Memories on this site are pathetic. Stefan Martin was terrible last year. To claim we should have kept him is a ridiculous call which belies logic and reason, and is purely based on not liking Jamar right now. Jamar gives us nothing other than competition in the hit outs, and even then, he's not doing a great job of giving us first use. For that, he can't stay in the side. Spencer/Gawn will give us more around the ground. Both of them are more mobile than Jamar. Jamar needs to go back to Casey and tear it up down there, remembering that he can in fact kick 50 metres, he can take a contested mark, and he can drift forward and move around the ground. Right now, he's not doing that, and until he does, I don't want him in the side.

What's the bet Sylvia was sh!tfaced and Frawley told him to go home.

You mean play [censored] football for 30 years and make the finals sparingly? Yeah Melbourne's already taking a leaf out of their book.

He'll be fine when he adjusts to the speed of the game. Give the kid time. That said, I don't think he should be playing AFL footy yet, I think that was clear in round 1 and I don't think making him sub does much for him. Some of our development decisions are baffling IMO.

Its goingto be another tough year, but i think we will improve as the year goes on. Next year we will have a forward line of Clark Hogan and Dawes. Hopefully we will get another couple of mids. Trengove ,Tapscott,Viney,M Jones,Kent, Evans,Toumpas,Blease,Watts,a year older and wiser. We will get there.

He was one of only three players on the ground that didn't take a mark. The other two were subs and played half a game between them. I didn't like Mark "Doughnut" Jamar last year, but this year I'm dead sick of him. Bring in Spencer, Gawn, Fitzpatrick...ANYONE that at least wants to look like they're trying.

The point of that is that I don't think I am a fan of him anymore. I think sacking him is a serious move that could hurt the club but at the same time he isn't doing it for us and that's obvious. I don't know what the solution is but I am losing faith in the coach.

The ironic thing is, the first half today was a typical Bailey style Melbourne, all attack and dash but no defence or accountability.

We need to throw a mountain of cash at an experienced coach. We keep upping the price til they say yes. If we're equally as terrible (highly unlikely) then we clean out the scrap..again.. A true professional gets twice as much from this group than what we're seeing. I believe that.

West Coast are a 10 - 15 goal better side at the moment. What's so hard to understand about this?

Russell who?He's a different beast to Robertson anyway. He's a much better runner and works defensively, but he's a poorer shot for goal. I still support the idea of him rotating between midfield and forward to keep the opposition on their toes.

Positive: Starting early with the Mark of the Year nominations:

Saints touched them up and Scully's copping bronx cheers.... If they win, they win. Today we unearthed Evans (who was good) until he ran out of puff. He's only 20 and coming back from a debilitating back injury. Matt Jones is a real find. Ro Bail was great - I hope the kid's head is okay. Dean Terlich must play every weak, as he has a crack and his skills will improve. The penny may have dropped with Sylvia and today he really stood up. 3 Jacks were terrific. Big Mitch is getting better and Nathan Jones may yet win a Brownlow. Neeld is the man.

I totally agree that Jamar's worth around the ground is zilch. I also agree that he is ripe to be replaced as soon as the other guys are fit & ready. However, I am a very analytical eye when it comes to the centre bounce/ball up. Jamar was excellent today in the centre re-starts. He was much more effective than last week in giving our midfield first touch. He mixed it up more (which was a major criticism from Bombers game) and he cleared a path. So those critical of his ability to time the jump, thwart opposition and get the tap aren't watching closely. But we all agree there is more to being a gun ruckman than that in the modern game. That is why so many applaud Cox.

I can fully understand why people have Neeld in the gun, but I really hope they stick with him. Another sacking and change of direction means a new coach, another clean out and the whole cycle starts again. As I said I can understand the 'Sack Neeld' argument, so I am not interested in arguing with those in that camp, just my humble opinion and gut feel I guess.

Everyone needs to lay off Toumpas. He clearly isn't ready for AFL and needs more time in the VFL. There is not a single point in labeling him as a spud. I've had it! Just bide your time and quit being so pessimistic. Its not like he's the very first person ever to play his first year of footy and look a overwhelmed by the big league. Take a chill pill.

Viney's around the corner kick to Clark in the 2nd quarter was a huge positive for me. It just shows what we have to look forward too.

Since this has already turned into a thread about Neeld, my two cents.......don't even think about it MFC unless you identify a candidate to replace him and you have +90% chance of getting that person. To go with a caretaker will just put us back on the treadmill and we are bound to end with the wrong coach again.

Get bent, Stuie. Our first half was great. For a team coming off a performance like last week's, it was inspiring and good to watch. Our midfielders were having a go (we were leading clearances at half time), Clark was leading from the front, and we had a few links from full back to full forward which were perfect. We played as a team, and we looked so much better than the last two weeks. Yes, our second half was awful, but from watching the game you'll see that our problems this week weren't effort, they were mainly talent. Our bottom 6 is so, so bad (and, in fact, is more of a bottom 12). If you didn't see any positives today, then get out of this thread, because many of us did.