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Martin is hopeless fwd.

It was only while driving home from yesterday's inter forum footy matches against the Bombers and the Pies that I really thought of the significance of the role of one of our players in the game and I hope he won't mind me bringing it up but it's a great story. I suppose it's a bit unconventional for a coach to meet almost half of his team for the first time but that's what happens in these inter forum games. When I arrived at the ground to coach the Demon Internet team one of the players I was introduced to was called "Cords" and, playing a hunch, I asked him if that meant he was a Cordner. I was right. Cords (I think his name is James) is the grandson of Dr. Don Cordner and therefore great-grandson of Edward meaning he has a history with the colours and the club going back over a century and an association with the MCC/MFC going back further to the time of the very foundation of the AFL/VFL. He plays for one of the University Blacks teams which also has a long association with the Cordner name and he was one of our best yesterday. I checked later and discovered that his father Chris (who was a handy amateur footballer in his day - some say he could easily have played VFL but concentrated on his studies) is an Associate Professor in Philosophy and lectures on subjects like "goodness". So I guess that all fits in because the tale of Cords wearing the colours so long associated with his family with distinction is a truly good news story for me.

I have been living in the country of Potentialville for almost 20 years I have been granted permanent citizenship - I used to live in the little township of Newtonfield but recently moved to South Petterdton - Whilst I have lived in Potentialville for many years I must say that the actuality hasnt lived up to all the hype and I am considering a move to Realitytown where they greet you with a slap in the face with a large trout and the national anthem is "get busy or get stuffed".

Also great to see Aaron Davey out there obviously keen to get started and looking relaxed and composed. Here's hoping we can see once again the spark that he showed in his first years at the club.

By the time this trade/FA/draft period ends, excluding any rookies we add and obviously Hogan, every single player we will add will add to the side immediately, including Viney and most likely whoever we take with #4. Neeld has said to anyone who will listen that his FD collectively believe that we've got the talented youth to get where we need to be, and we're desperately short of quality mature players to help keep us competitive in the mean time. It isn't very hard to put these two pieces of information together to establish the obvious strategy for this off-season and why it's been a success for us. I guess it's just easier for guys like Cam Mooney to resort to the "common wisdom" of draft picks = better team and not bothering to look any deeper than that. Edit: The other thing is that even though we haven't added much youth this year, of the four we have added two are known to be absolutely top shelf and while we don't know the ID of Pick #4 yet, the chances of not unearthing at least a very good player are slim. In short, we've added class, experience and leadership. I can't believe that anyone could not view this as a success.

Wow a rumour that can't be shared from a source that can't be named from someone I don't know - wow, thanks!

I think this has needed to be posted for awhile in the context of both our drafting and list management. 18-21 (New recruits): Davis, Blease, Gawn, TMac,Taggert, Tapscott, Trengove, Tynan, Watts, Viney, Toumpas (!!!!), Barry, Hogan, Kent, Evans. 22-25 (Established players): Bail, Clark, Dunn, Fitzy, Frawley, Garland, Grimes, Howe, Jetta, Jones, Jordie, Sellar, Spencer, Strauss, Dawes, Pedersen, Nicholson, Gillies, M Jones, Terlich. 26-28(Senior Players): JMac, Sylvia, Byrnes, 29+(Veterans): Davey, Jamar, Rodan. Bold: New Looking at our list at this stage of the trade period I think Neeld's mindset becomes clear. The vast majority of our list (particularly with the exits of Rivers, Moloney, Green and Jurrah) are in the first two groups, with only 5 players pre our new ins over 26. It should also be noted that of those players over 26, only 2 have really cemented their spots in the 22 in 2012 (Jamar and Sylv and thats still debatable). The vast majority of the quality on our list is in the age group between 22-25, with more entering over the next couple of years (Trenners, Watts and Blease for example). But in the key 26-28 age group, where I would argue most players are hitting their peak we only have 3 players with 2 famously inconsistant and JMac, who we could debate the quality of. Clearly our list is deficient in this region and even with several good players entering this age group over the next couple of years it is clear it needs to be bolstered. Clearly we have plenty of talent in the younger region of our list and this will be bolstered with at least 4 young recruits this year. I am sure multiple conclusions can be drawn from this, and sure the age groups are arbitrary and I haven't guessed at the delistings, but I think it has needed to be posted as I feel it would answer a lot of the concerns given in several threads. Obviously we are actually adding more youth than anything else in this draft so those like Cam Mooney who argue we aren't continuing to add quality to the young end of our list are way off the mark. But in Byrnes, Ray and Dawes (who will be 25 next year) we have added 3 experienced players who have come from quality cultures, experienced success and are equally as good, if not better than most of our current experienced players. Edited to include Rodan, also in this context Rodan makes far more sense as he adds to an age and experience group we have very little in. Edited to include delistings, Pedersen and trades (Gys, Morton). Edited to include upgraded Rookies and Gillies. Edited to include draft Edit: For all the talk during trade period of "not adding enough youth" we have now added 6 players under 22 to our primary list along with 4 over 25. Seems pretty balanced to me. Also the depth of this list is looking better and better, there are far fewer in the team that I can't see getting an AFL game than when we started. Also with at least 5 (Dawes, Jones, Pedersen, Clark, Frawley, Jones) high quality players moving into the "Senior player" age group over the next 2 years this list is starting to look more and more competitive, rather than developmental.

Fine, looks like its my turn to bite on one of your posts. 1. That would now be pick 14, 2. Your order could never have happened that way as GC or GWS would have bid on Viney 3. There's no guarentee that GC or GWS having had us refuse to deal on a Viney bid would have offered Barry at all, and its possible they may have considered other offers on Hogan. Best case scenario in your world: Viney (Pick 3), Hogan (Pick 4), Pick 14, 26 (would probably not been enough for Dawes as the Bulldogs would offer 21 (now 22)) I'll take what the footy department has done any day!

If you jump on the reality bus, it will take you through Central Jurrahtown, a ferry ride across to Wonna island, back to the coast and through Bate swamp and the small town of Dunn. To your right you might see the gleaming cities of Jollyville, Thompsontown and NextYearopolous. Finally you turn left at Crushedhopes and eventually you are in Realitytown. It's a bit drab at the moment, but we're hoping the town will thrive in years to come.

Great biscuits.

Thanks LH, I hope not, I prefer to think that Denham can't read! Anyway I also wanted to add that Sydney had 9 players in their GF team over 29, thats just the 22, not the entire list! Also Hawthorn had at least 6 over 28. So that shows just how deficient we are in experienced players!

GENERATIONAL CHANGE by Rollo Sorry this is so late but, probably like Whispering Jack, I am under siege at work. Well, bomberblitz are the second-best forum footy team. But we beat them easily. Lots of people remarked on Sunday that we could have picked a champion team from our list of veterans who were apologies. But our new guys stepped up, and hopefully we can keep them interested in forum footy over the next few years. Demonland7, jonesbag, the passenger, yossarian, saka888, cords1, cords2 and strawbs provide a solid basis for the future of demonland in forum footy. There was also No. 12, a guy called Brett, who kicked a bag. If someone can tell me how to get hold of him for future matches, I will be grateful. Cords1 and Cords2 are descended from the famous Cordners who played for the Club, and you can tell the bloodlines. The second game was a loss, not because we could not have beaten the pies just as easily, but because rollo was out-organised by the bomberblitz organiser, scotty21. He combined the best of the pies (understrength) with the best of the dons and, in our second game in a row, we couldn’t match the quality and the leg-speed. As Whispering Jack said, if we had played the pies who got slaughtered by the dons in the third game, we would have beaten them easily. Still, we are not in the business of sour grapes. Bad organisation is bad footy, and the pies have won the moore/woewodin trophy for the first (and hopefully) the last time. Thank god for tassie dee, nat and their mates who made up the numbers for the pies in the last game (by playing their third game in a row) and reduced the slaughter, so we ended up winning the day on percentage. Special thanks to rollo2 and tassie dee for bringing extra numbers. We would have been in a world of trouble without them. Special mention to brothers, dazzledavey36 and leeroy. Dazz drove 6 hours to play, and leeroy played with gastro. Both showed that they are superb players. We were so lucky they could both be available, especially when so many of our match-winning veterans were apologies. Another special mention to the Russian, appointed captain for the day. With the late withdrawal of our first ruckman, he resigned himself to more time on the backline and played his usual solid game. Thanks to veterans deanox, ucanchoose, cowboy from hell, and melbournefc. Hope you have some extra miles in those legs for next time. Good to see ucanchoose busily creating our 2025 team. We were hoping to groom ex-player, pringle, as a significant support and eventual replacement for Whispering Jack, but pringle is heading off to work interstate, so WJ is stuck with the job for the forseeable future. Another great job on Sunday, Jack. Helpers never get their due. Many thanks to Biffen (water-man who also kept clint bartram entertained), george on the outer for time-keeping and the great pics, and supermercado as coach’s assistant. Rollo is past it, out-organised by the bomberblitz organiser. I would love to stay involved in some capacity, but realise that I need to hand over the reins to a younger person. Anybody interested? Finally, thanks to Clint Bartram for coming. He is professional, approachable and entertaining. If I have left out anybody in this review, people should post to include them. Regards to all, rollo

yeah....but he also aggravates the shite out of me

Stef Martin couldnt get into our best 22 and look where we finished !

Herald Sun Sunday 21/10 page 42 in the superfooty.com.au Scott Gullan take it for what you want but sounds like it might happen . Melbourne is set to complete its list renovation by snaring Farren Ray and Cameron Pedersen before Friday's trade deadline . Like a number of clubs, the Demons were forced to put negotiations on hold in recent days as they waited for the AFLs ruling on free agency compensation. They received pick no 49 for losing veterans Jared Rivers and Brent Moloney , which they will use in a complicated deal to snare the two remaining targets. Its believed a third club will be used in at least one of the deals to achieve coach Mark Neelds desire to add further experience to his list. etc etc etc GO DEES

They better get the Demonland server nice and strong for this game. If we lose, this place will implode. If we win, this place will... well... implode with deluded unrealistic declarations of success.

I'm a cleanskin at nearly 40 but I will happily tatto my forehead for a flag at this stage .

You guys need to relax and listen to my favourite girl group, Bananarama.

I'm surprised Hogan didn't go MD1. How often does a ready to go forward come through the draft? Not very often- not one with his attributes anyway. Martin looks like he will be a star, but he will take longer to come on, plus I would have thought GC were just as desperate for a big forward as anyone. Time will tell who took the better player, but in terms of most important player out of the two in terms of team structure, Hogan would have to be the pick there.

Read this article by one of the most respected post-season and draft analysts in the Age: Three win in mini-draft It is not tampering, it is within the rules, it is smart, and it worked out for every party involved. QED

And as i noted Dawes is only 24 - which for a big fella is really the time he is likely to start hitting his straps. If he improves fro this point in his career (which is likley) we are the getting the best years of him with Collingwood having had to do all the development (with the investment that entails). One other thing. Having Hogan in our system for a full year adds incredible value to him as a draft pick. If we had taken the punt and were luck enough to get him next year he would have missed the first month or so of pre season and would have been dealing with the interstate move and all the associated issues. Instead we will have a young gun, ready to go round one and be third tall, surrounded by two big men hitting their physical prime. He will have settled in Melbourne, know all his team mates and the system and have a year of Misson polish. I don't think any of the so called experts, or at the least the ones i've heard have acknowledged how beneficial that will be for us. Nor has there been much comment on the fact Neeld is trying to build a system and is bringing in players specifically to play roles, fit the system and provide role models (that a young 18 year old, no matter how good, is going to be able to provide)

Yeah, the point he was making was Melbourne giving up early picks for getting experience at the expense of not picking up quality kids - he specifically mentioned picks 3,13. Wow. Guess what Cam?? We used those picks to nab Hogan/Barry and pick up Viney at 27. ie. Kids ! .........Mr.W.Anker.

Mooney would be lucky if he could spell his own name let alone give "special comments" on any teams drafting strategy .

We shall draft 3 top 10 kids (Viney, Hogan and Pick 4) and one estimated pick 30-50 kid in Barry. That equals a good haul of QUALITY kids in the draft. Plus we have tried to cover the loss of experience and position of recent years (Green, Maloney, Jurrah, Jnr, Rivers, Bruce etc) with the addition of Dawes (24) Bynes (28), Pedersen and Ray (assuming we get them). Too much media, not enough neurones.

yeah people from outside the club are welcome to take potshots, but we all know we've tried and failed going down the 'put your faith in the draft' route. Time for a different approach

A demonland thread sidetracked ? Never happens

Cheers my friend. I'm excited for the very reason that whilst I don't understand a lot of what's been happening and some of the choices of our FD seem to be a little odd it gives me cause to think that perhaps they might know better than I do and that they deserve our trust. It's been a while since I trusted the club to get things right. Go Dees!

Hopefully nothing.

The purpose of the post was to tell us we don't have a clue whats going on. As if we didn't know that already. Stupidly I'm excited Crawf...

If I wasn't so amazed by what you wrote, I would be disgusted, last season Nev had worked digilently or diligently as it says on the MFCs ite, he was ready to go when he did his ankle and was out for four months, to get back into the side (yes I agree pretty easy last season), shows he is more than a show pony, he could have easily coasted with his rehab If he can get through unscathed this pre season, and if he does it will be the first time by the way, he will be able to show what he can do

maybe the streched his back and he's now another 10cm taller!

Where would we find said photos?

He may get the stats for hit-outs, but very few of them have been effective. We need clearances not just hit-outs. He does bugger all around the ground - takes very few marks, few possessions and can't / won't kick. How many 1 percenters such as shepherds? Really quite a disappointment.

Man denham is an absolute [censored]. If he looked at our recruiting the last 5-6 years it has predominately been kids, and they don't develop well without great mentors. The dogs currently have some good mentors, thats where the difference is. Their list is much older than ours, we already have the youth, just need some older blokes to mentor the kids. I don't think the two clubs should be compared. silly denham. I can't wait for the deez to get some good footy under the belt n stick it up little greggy.

Schibecksaid Dees close to the best so far in recruiting. Denham said that is rubbish, went on with the Melbourne Bears thing ie a team made up of 'recycled' players, ad nauseum. D thinks we should take the Bulldogs approach, put the cue in the rack for a few years and recruit only kids (and Dee supports should suck it up), pick 20 overs for Dawes etc etc etc. Callers raised fact that we have recruited more kids: Viney, Hogan, Barry and pick 4; that we had lost experience: Maloney, Jurrah, Green so we need experience and some stronger bodies to help young kids develop. D thought we should have made better use of our draft picks...ha? S asked D if he would apologise if the Dees won a flag in 3 years. D said it wouldn't happen but yes he would apologise...Hmmm S finished up with one day we will find out what is behind it all (D's venom towards the Dees) That's about all I remember...I was more focused on enjoying S's hard edge than listing to the detail.

I'd be happy enough with this. My feeling is that over the journey we would get more value out of Pedersen than Martin. However, I'd prefer a deal that involves Ray or another mid. This one seems to restrict our opportunity to get Ray, unless the Saints are interested in someone like Petterd or Bate..

The back up ruck will be in the ruck for about 20 mins a game. How they play for the rest of the game is of greater importance. The number of posters blind to this is quite staggering.

The wife's a St Kilda supporter so I've seena lot of Ray over the last few years. He's impressed me a fair bit since he moved from the Dogs and impressed me when he played seniors this year, I haven't been able to work out why he isn't in Scott Watters plans apart that he may simply be an unlucky victim of Watters trying to introduce some kids. He goes a lot harder then Cale and I've found his decision making very sound. He also has the ability to play a shut down role yet still find the footy at the same time. Something our current tagger, Jordie has trouble doing. Farren has some decent pace also (not lightning quick, but still reasobale turn of pace) so I think there's a lot he brings to the table that we sorely lack. I'm all for his signature as it will bring competition for spots in our 22 and he would become another player to join our list from a club with a recent winning culture.

So, the latest is that Pick 49 which we got as comp for Rivers is not enough to secure Pederson and that we will have to 'do better' as my teachers were always telling me. How is it that Norf got rid of McIntosh for pick 39 and yet a player who can't get a game is more deserving of a better pick than 49? Trade week is mad.

I really like Stef and see huge potential in him. I will judge him by 2011 and forgive last year as they all ran around like headless chooks .

If you look at our forward area on paper now with Clark and Dawes the twin towers, Byrnes as a crumber and allowing Fitzy and Hogan to be nurtured with the right hardbody protection around him I think Neeld has effectively sorted the basis for a power forward line for the next 6-8 years potentially. Crumbers are a problem but small forwards are generally easier to find that key position bigs. Now the midfield needs a superstar. Toumpas? Viney? Wines? man i must say 2013 is just looking awesome really.

The most disappointing thing more than leaving the club is losing a great player to injury which we seem to have gotten a lot. Stinga - massive loss for the club and imagine if he could have lined up in the 2000 GF side. The OX - yes he came back but those that saw him pre-95 knee reconstruction, knows what we lost. Lyon - career cut short by injury, further aggravated by flying in a tiny plane to bring farmer back. Paul Prymke (Not sure on the spelling) - see him in 94 young great CHB/fullback, degenerative back injury. Glenn Lovett - done in my soft tissue in injuries. Jako - bad back (combined with laziness) That period from 95 should have been golden but decimated by injury... the spine would have been Jacko, Ox, Stynes/White, Nietz, Prymke, aand Lyon as mr fixit wherever required or at FF. then combined with Yze, Stinga, Woey, Powell, Johnstone, Robbo, Febey's, farmer, etc... of what could have been

Full time - Melbourne 10.3.63 to Essendon 4.1.25. Match against pies now in progress. Some bikies are waiting to play a game after, so if we all die carry on in our names.

In the wash up if we complete trade week and have acquired Viney, Hogan, Barry, Byrnes, Dawes, Pedersen and Ray with pick 4 still in the drawer then it's been a brilliant off-season on the back of landing Clark last year. Five or 6 of those will be in our best 22 next year and I suspect all in 2014, which will mean a third of the team's best 22 will have changed within one season. This is the type of momentum that starts filtering through an entire group as they see tangible improvements that they're desperate to be a part of. Add natural improvement through development, fitness, and maturation of others on the list and some blue sky will definitely start appearing regularly.

Could have had three GF medals instead of; how many has he got? That's right, none. On topic, when we gave Woey the flick I rang the club and gave Hassa Mann the biggest serve ever; that along with yelling obscenities at Tiger at the merger meeting are two thing I have always regretted. Both were just doing their job and Tiger thought he was doing his best for the club. Anyway enough of that.

We can help them out by trading pick 4 for picks 1, 2 & 3.

Andrew Bolt is a conservative whose views perfectly reflect mine. He is nothing you say he is and our country would be far better placed if our politicians shared his common sense approach to life matters. I won't get in a tennis match with you on this thread about this subject, but I also don't want left leaning posters like yourself shouting bile from the rooftops and going unchallenged.

Footy aside-Andrew Bolt is the most conceited apologist for the rich and corrupt ever. South Africans like him should be working the farms in the hot sun for their black owners. Sticks up for the strong and belittles the weak . There is a massive wart on his face that is probably his brain. May the grim reaper find an easy and speedy path to his door.

I once said the Bay City Rollers would be as big as the Beatles. I thought that Colin Sylvia would have a break out year in 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013? That Matty Bate would thrive as a mid fielder I can't go on there are too many and I'm starting to cry