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Will take it for the flag.

Attended a lunch today with Neil Craig as a guest speaker. So impressive. I can guarantee the tail is no longer wagging the dog. We have defined a high performance culture. Individuals that cannot meet the requirements will no longer be tolerated (respectfully). So much more I gleaned from Neil but one thing is for sure ... Whether we recruit trade or pick up free agents, they will be hand picked to fit a system, talent alone will not cut it. A graph showing just how far the gap between u 18 comp and afl continues to widen makes for interesting reading. We will not be relying on just kids to pull us back up. Also, we will not be dictated to on deals over Jack Viney. If GWS or GCS bid so be it. If we believe that Jack is third best in the draft we will match. Simple as that. The guy might have revolutionized sport science in the AFL but he sure knows what constitutes leadership and how to create a high performance culture. They have started from scratch but they will not settle for mediocracy. He mentioned that to create a culture of success you need people who have experienced this. Everyone wants to be successful but not many know what it takes to get there. Don't be surprised to only see trades and FA from successful clubs only.

Lucas Cook just so we can see him do one thing in an MFC jumper before he's shot out of a cannon

Rumours – Given Cloke has signed Melbourne are chasing Goldsack very hard. Wellingham prefers a Perth destination but will consider MFC (depends on $$ offered) Will make a play for Kobe Stevens RFA / FA MFC are talking to/ chasing – Knights, Russell, Levett – Murray, C. Young, Salopek, Lynch MFC trying hard not to loose Gysberts for nothing (unless they get a similar type player) Pettard, Martin, Gysberts, Garland, Riv, getting interest from other clubs Source – Someone who works within the recruiting dept at MFC Also heard that Neeld, Craig & Misson have put all players on notice for the upcoming pre-season with no exceptions. Apparently it took them the best part of half the pre season to get the players into some sort of shape this year.

Spell check please.

Anyone see 360? Ben Hudson from Brissy promised an overseas mate he'd get him a Grand Final ticket, couldn't get one, so he's running the sprint to get two tickets. lololololol

Jessica ??

I hope the lure of possibly being a one club player, and the direction we are going in will be enough to convince him to stay. I honestly feel he is, and has been one of the most underrated players at the club, is courageous, good mark, decent skills, and has a bit of mongrel about him. That coupled with his experience would make him a pretty big loss, not devastating, but big enough.

I think we'll see a few early wins, then a long trough followed by looking good over the last 6-8 rounds as the gameplan finally sinks in to those more permanent members of the team. Our improved fitness will see losing margins reduced and our improved midfield will do well on the back of some NQR's that fill roles. Morton will emerge as a strangely effective mid that gets into our best players list consistently in the last half of the year - and his rise is universally acknowledged on demonland while causing mass bewilderment And cattle mutilations will be up.

Still building, drastic list changes, building up the fitness of a mostly physically immature list... I would expect a 12-16th place finish.

Hahaha if we ever win the flag ill have to sell my house to pay for the bender ill go on

They'll win the flag then get banned from the comp in a conspiracy involving a cadre of spanish hookers and 3 kilos of cocaine.

West Coast has 12 'first 22' players aged 25 or over, and that is not counting injured guys like LeCras. 12 experienced players who played at least most of the season, quite a few of whom were there for the last premiership and it includes a sixth-time and a fourth-time All-Australian. Adelaide's count of 25-and-over players who played all or close to all of the season is 11, and included gun mids, key forwards, Melbourne had ONE guy over 25 play all games, thank you Jared Rivers, and only a few get close to a full season, like Syliva (17), Dunn (18), Magner (17) and MacDonald (19). None of those were exactly tearing the field apart. So alas, any comparison with the Eagles or the Crows is not really going to work. Their story is of a season or two wih injuries, disruption and poor form, and then regaining the mature players and refreshing their form for another crack, backed by a few good draft selections to fill out the team. Those clubs have not been through a rebuild. Imagine a scenario where, for Melbourne in about 2009, each of Yze, Robertson, Neitz, Brown, White, McDonald, Green, Bruce, Johnstone and Whelan had all had a completely uninjured season and had a solid run of good form. I guess there's two points I'm making - First, we are rebuilding from as 'scratch' as it gets and there is no real comparison with clubs like West Coast or Adelaide, or even Hawthorn, I would say. Second, once you get a solid core of high-quality mature players into your team, you can stay competitive for a long, long time, and a good run with injury and one 'bonus' year of good drafting (picking up a star like Hawthorn did with Rioli or Geelong did with Selwood) and you can push up to the next level and be a true champion team.

The club should make a big deal about this and make a complaint to the AFL and Carlton, anything to put him in his place. Payback time!

Morton. As long as Brendon Lade is available.

I believe Ben Hudson will run a better 100m's in the GF sprint than Mitch Clark.

Rivers is much more than a 'third up defender with poor disposal'. He has experience and leadership, and on field he is tough at it and strong in the air (rare at the MFC) has fantastic composure under pressure which our back line sorely needs. Before he went forwards he was (on form) one of the best key backs in the comp and that is why people want him. You are massively underestimating Rivers and what he brings to the side. Because of all that he will be a big loss and a massive hole in the side which I don't think we will be able to fill for some time, especially with the players on offer this year.

You really want to check how long you can cellar it for,if you want to do that.

I agree. The lack of love for him here is astounding! Not only this year, but last year. 2nd and 5th in B&F. Moving forward for the team's sake was to his own detriment. Team player, clubman. Body is sound, as JCB said its unfortunate - but that's the footy landscape now.

Let's all of us be realistic -MFC need the following- Seriously try to retain Rivers. Try to gain Pedersen & Stevens Pick up two mids as well as Viney. And furthermore pick up a tall forward like Membrey. These are my thoughts.

I want to see improvement in most players, improvement in fitness, improvement in game-plan and a good run with injuries to our better players. I want to see the making of a really good midfield. I want to see it starting to take shape and the ND should go a long way to doing this. I'll be fascinated by who are rated our best 6 players at the end of 2013, as well as who finishes top 5 in the B&F. Trengove's aim should be to finish top 3 in the B&F and my prediction is that Viney will finish top two (subject to injury). And no, I'm not putting wild expectations on him, and nor do I think he's the "messiah", it's just my prediction. He'll play virtually the entire year as a 19 year old (bar rounds 1 and 2) and has a rare appetite for winning contested ball. He'll be the only true "first dibs" midfielder on our list. Neeld and Co really need to start making tangible improvements after a second preseason. In the main, the players that haven't "bought in" will be gone. I feel confident that we'll see significant improvements across the board in 2013 despite low public expectations.

I am sick of being disappointed - so I am predicting 2 wins, last position. Surely we can exceed my expectations for the first time in my life.

But I'll claim the sh! t out of it if it do be troo!

No, I'm not talking frisky-business. I've been looking at the Swans side and thinking just how well they have been able to groom players from other clubs to fill a role within their own structure. Players such as Ted Richards and Rhyce Shaw immediately come to mind - players out of favour at their previous clubs who have been brought into the team for specific reasons. Others, to varying degrees, include Mcglynn, Kennedy, Mumford not to mention players from differing pedigrees Kennelly and Pyke. A number of reasons have been offered as to why they have been able to gel so well in the Harbour Town. One of them is the culture. The players are relatively unknown in Sydney and are able to go about their business in an un-assuming manner, focusing essentially on the task at hand. By accounts, many of the players live close together and have formed a close-knit culture (Bloods culture, thanks Kirky!) Another reason that I've been thinking today is the notion of playing a role. Each player at Sydney seems to have a set role to play in each and every game. Each players seems to know his role inside out and as a by-product, seems capable of playing that role most weeks. Obviously, this can leave them somewhat one-dimensional, but I think it has been crucial to Sydney reaching the top of the tree again without needing to rebuild. Guys like Ted Richards are given a specific portfolio. They are instructed exactly how the team are to play and told explicitly how to play the role. The result of which leaves Richards knowing exactly what he needs to do. He would be acutely aware of successes and failures. The key point to this is that each team needs a clear direction for the type of footy it wants to play and then the coach needs to recruit players who will fill the parts of that machine. Obviously, teams like Hawthorn are a different case. I think that's what happens when you land guys of the Franklin/Roughead/Rioli ilk with Hodge/Mitchell to lead. Teams like Melbourne seem to have never established this culture, this game plan, this strategy. Too often, forwards have turned midfielders or vice versa with seemingly little regard for how this will help the team function. Perhaps we have not had a culture where the players feel that they can go about the task in an unassuming manner because they are turned to rock stars at the drop of a hat or not given a system to work towards. It's with this in mind that I will be interested to see which players we target/land in the trade period or through FA. Players who may seem to fit the system that Neeld and Craig seem to be implementing. Players who will, hopefully, help to instil a culture of hard-work, success and thirst for the contest within the club. Not world-beaters on their own, I hope they will be part of the Melbourne revolution. I look at a team like Sydney with a lot of respect because it takes each player to work to the top of their game. Obviously their top 6 is very good, but I don't think it's near the top 6 of the best teams in the comp. Theirs is a complete team and, I think, a role-model for our club. Go Dees! (Go the Swans tomorrow!)

Our best defender... who spent half the year as a forward? Chip the Spud. FFS. For every poster with the rose coloured glasses on, there's one with poo coloured glasses on that sees the worst in everything.

The MFC should take this tweet to the AFL and bring up the obvious issue, Brock has anger issues with the MFCand is trying to undermine the club. This undermines his allegation of Tanking. Silly Boy.

Didn't Col's mum give Brock.... nevermind...

Unfortunately for Brock, his cheek has regularly proven to be somewhere between dumb and offensive.

Yes I did hear that and it makes you wonder what would motivate a player to put his hand up to play if he was that sick he really couldn't; there are a couple of players that have ruled themselves out of tomorrow's Grand Final for the good of the side, make of that what you will. Getting top picks doesn't guarantee good players and I think that's proven to be fairly accurate in our case, have a look at the number of top 20 picks that are either playing for Casey or about to be delisted. Do you think that Bate, Dunn, Maric, Morton, Strauss, Gysberts, Cook etc have been worthy of the top 20 picks we have used on them? Many, like yourself and Voss, just assumed that because we had so many top picks we would have a great list but no one ever took the time to realise that we had wasted most of them on very ordinary players. Yeah we should have a good list but we simply don't. Have a look at it and ask yourself the question; how many would get a game at Hawthorn or any other team in the top 8 for that matter. Can Neeld coach, I don't really know as yet, we'll have to wait and see, but one thing he will do is shake the [censored] out of the club and drag it in to the 21st century and hopefully show the players exactly what you have to do to be successful. I'm sick of seeing Melbourne sides throw in the towel when the going gets tough, we aren't the toughest side to beat, as yet, but I'm sure that's what his aim is, no more leaders pointing and blaming when things go bad, leaders that actually try to do something about it.

Player development of defenders has been really good for the MFC since 08 and I attribute some of that to young players being around quality players and leaders like Jared. His position in our B&F says he had a good year - which he did. No need to complicate it. His disposal is much better than T Macs, he is much smarter than Sellar, and he is more reliable than Frawley imo (more consistent output - I know they play different roles). Would rather keep a great third man up' than lose one.

Why is it a massive loss? He is a third up defender who cant play on the gorillas or on a leading forward. His position in our B & F says more about our year than his performance. I would have Frawley, T-Mac, Sellar ahead of him for true tall defenders. Great third man up but that is all. Happy if he stayed but dont mind if he goes.

What a way to announce the first free agency signing!

Its only natural to be pessimistic based on 2012 but I am optimisitic. We had a crap year but clubs like Fremantle, Adelaide, Sydney, Essendon and Richmond - we were beating in 2010 and 2011 by significant amounts. Their lists and our lists havent changed that much but their results are much better. Adelaide / Richmond got a ruckman. Sydney, Fremantle got a new coach. Confidence and luck helps. But what they have added isnt that much more than we have added. Players just matured and our list is doing the same with notables like Watts, Grimes, Blease getting game time. If we wind back the clock to the end of the 2010 season we said - great prospects in 2011. Then we drew against the Swans in round 1 2011. At the time we were deflated - but it turns out that that team is playing in a Grand Final in 2012 - tell me who they have recruited this team that was only good enough to draw with us in 2011 that has catapulted them into a Grand Final? Is Longmire some freak? My point is that there is a fine line between average and good. We have a demanding capable coach, we have many maturing 50+ games types, we have a large number of top draft picks, we have money to spend and off field we seem to have a modicum of order. I expect that we will see 2012 as an aberation. I expect that we will draft another Mitch Clarke type (mature proven / not necessarily tall forward) and I expect we will also buy for the long term. I expect we will knock on the finals door. Dont get carried away with pessimism I am sure our players arent.

We are headed for a very interesting few weeks. When all is said and done, if we could get a couple of good mids in trading, like Wellingham and say Stevens, then draft a few more like JV ,Toumpas and maybe MacRae, we would be far better off than we are currently.

I would have thought the minimum would be 6-8 wins. 4 wins or less and there might be carnage.

I can only assume you're referring to me... I said it was my prediction. And I wouldn't have said it if I didn't think it. How did Toby Greene go this year ? Yes, I know it was unusual. How did Joel Selwood go in his first year ? How did Nathan Buckley go in his first year at the Bears ? He came second in the B&F to Martin Leslie - just. He was already 20 and like Viney was mature enough and strong enough to impact from day one. How did another left footed Oakleigh Charger in Andrew Gaff go this year ? In his second year he averaged 24.6 disposals and played every game. He spent half the year as a 19 year old. Viney is already heavier and stronger than Gaff. Leigh Matthews won a B&F at Hawthorn in 1971 when he was 19. Yes, it was his third year and this will only be Viney's first, but there are some players that come into the system that are prepared to go from day one. By the end of his first year supporters will be surprised by his attack on the contest. They'll be surprised by his mindset. They won't remember another young Melbourne player come into the side that was as ready to mix it with men. There aren't too many players come into the system with Viney's makeup. I don't expect others to agree and nor do I care, but with Viney's traits and his already strong body I expect him to impact early on. Will I be disappointed if he doesn't ? Not at all. Will I be surprised if he doesn't ? Yes. As I said, it's my prediction.

No A-graders there, DrD. In that case I would want to keep 3, 4 and 13. If we pick up 4/5 of Wellingham, Stevens, Knights, Byrnes, Butcher, Pedersen/Casboult, Jacobs, Pearce, or Caddy AND keep 3, 4, and 13 then that would be a good trade week. None of those players should be mentioned in the same sentence as Pick 3 or 4. We would have a very good trade week if we got Hogan, 3, 13, Viney and 4 or 5 pros mentioned above.

With Rivers, MacIntosh and perhaps Caddy, they look pretty formidable to me.

Hopefully we'll meet them in the middle next year as they drop down and we rise up!

OK lets look at some of the players mentioned on this site: Shannon Byrnes - contributed to a premiership Scott Gumbleton - has proven that he is injuury-prone, but can kick goals when fit Koby Stevens - starved of oppurtunities, but certainly has some potential to be a quality player Cam Pedersen - proven gun at VFL level, never really been given a genuine shot at AFL Josh Caddy - tough midfielder who has been developing ok in a side he cleary hasn't wanting to be playing for Sharrod Wellingham - he might not be Swan or Pendlebury or Beams or Thomas or Sideass, but he is a cog in the machine that is the collingwood midfield. Living in "fantasy land" is thinking that Melbourne can just simply buy the best players. At this point in time, Melbourne is (or one of) the most undesirable club to play at. Richmond, and I really do hate to say this, are a club that we should be drawing some inspiration from. Guys like Grigg, Houli and Maric aren't exactly 'big fish', but are players who were deprived of game-time at their original club and are now regulars in the tiges best 22. I have no problem whatsoever, if the club were to take a risk on some of the players mentioned on this site. We have nothing to lose, and cannot get any worse.

I just want to see 22 players willing to run, chase and fight to win the ball. Being able to hit a target would be nice too.

ANYTHING could happen next year, from Neeld turning out to be a blow hard with no real coaching skills who gets fired after round 12 when we haven't won a game and we end up 18th, to our extra long preseason for 2013 (which included the entire 2012 season) paying off and, when combined with our exceptional drafting and trading and Neeld's amazing coaching, leads us to the promised land... But seriously, somewhere between 11-15 is what I'm actually expecting.

It's funny, I spend my time reading idiotic posts and usually don't bother commenting. I read an idiotic post with an idiotic dollar amount that I commented on. But now it was simply "algebraic" to make a point that I'm supposedly missing. How convenient. Maybe the next time a poster makes a silly comment perhaps they're afforded the same 'latitude'. Sydney overpaid for Mumford, but did they overpay McGlynn, Mattner, Shaw, Kennedy, and Richards, or did they just identify the role they could play and give them an opportunity ? The Saints didn't win a flag, but they played in 3 GF's. Did they overpay Dempster, Schneider, Gram, Ray, and before them King and Gardner ? They didn't overpay one of them. They looked for opportunities and picked most of them up for late draft picks. As I said, I'm all for trading, but do it smartly and if there's a big prize by all means "overpay", but don't pay silly dollars as was argued in this thread because we have to fill the cap anyway. Be smart about it. Become a good club that sets standards and makes smart decisions. Mooney and Schwarz reiterated this point on SEN today when they both agreed that "big contracts" creates "discontent" among the playing group. There's a lot more thought needed than simply "we need mature players, let's get them". Don't be shallow thinkers.

I know you like to troll, but are you even aware that Bailey was also a schoolteacher? As was Alistair Clarkson, Brendan McCartney, John Kennedy Sr, Neil Craig and many other coaches?

This isn't an either/or proposition. When we talk about Byrnes or Stevens we are not giving up high draft picks - we are just looking at players that can make an immediate impact that won't cost the earth. I wish people would stop thinking like this is a zero-sum game - you can improve your fortunes in 2013 without sacrificing the future desire for a flag.

I hear ya, but we're a bit like an old crusty millionaire... Unattractive, no chance of picking up against the hunky young fellas, so we flash the cash around to get some lovin. I just see paying "overs" for decent players as part of the building process towards being a top 5-8 team that can then attract higher quality players with cash + success.

Yes, we have gone backwards this year, it's very apparent to any real supporter who's seen every game this year. Let's accept it and look toward the future. I've been [censored] off enough during the season but now I've got next season in my sights. I just look forward to the surprises and twists of 2013, and hopefully Neeld can prove himself as well as all our weak, belittled players. Keep supporting the club and turn up to the matches because isn't it [censored] great to come and watch us play (especially at the [censored] MCG)

The Hawthorn board are waiting until after the grand final before deciding on whether to launch major legal proceedings against the Melbourne Football Club under trade practices legislation for deceptive and misleading conduct in allowing it to poach Cameron Bruce and Kyle Cheney from the club at the end of the 2010 season.

He's 15 you [censored].

If it's the Rufus Stone Shiraz from Heathcote, and the price suggests it is, then it's terrific. Halliday rates it 93 and says "Light red-purple; the fragrant, red berry bouquet is lifted by the 3% co-fermented viognier, and the palate has more drive and thrust than the light colour would suggest, yet leaves an overall sense of elegance." Enjoy.