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Maybe he had a job interview?

31yo. May want to fix that... Edit: Actually I could go on, I disagree with most of it including the bit about half the list struggling mentally ...... . Most out of touch POV I've read in one single post. NFI.

How about another poll asking if we really really need yet another Viney draft thread?

All the talk of getting chapman for his culture building abilities gets me thinking we should go hard for Cameron Ling as a Midfield coach. This bloke knows what it's like to be in a crap team and then turn it around into a monster of a team. Many say he is interested in coaching so I say get him.

I know I am only an armchair expert, but I am not alone when I say we have generally drafted poorly over the last few years.The media and most footy experts certainly agree. I am the first to admit I don't know how many times a boy farts after eating his breakfast, or whether he likes looking at girlie magazines, or whether he kisses his mother good night before bed or even if he says prayers before he sleeps. I certainly don't know how many short sprints a player can do before fainting, or what his reach is or whether he can play only inside or only outside or both, but maybe we are now over analyzing boys, to the extent we are dismissing good footballers. I don't go to all the TAC cup games, or even see every boy play live, but rather see a few of those games and others in you tube highlights. I read Demonland and learn a bit more about certain players. With that background, along I went to a draft function at the MFC, hosted by Chris Connolly a couple of years ago fairly confident in my mind that if still there at our pick 11 we would take Daniel Talia. During the function Chris told us we would not select him but rather Gysberts if there at pick 11. To put it mildly I was pretty shocked, but hey I wasn't the expert, who was I to argue. Today Gys is being spoken of by some on here as being tradeable and not having the right fitness or attitude and Talia is verging on AA selection having beaten many of the best forwards in the AFL. The next year at our first selection we took Lucas Cook who is yet to play a game, while many on here screamed for us to take Darling who looks a great player and has about 50 games up already. Cook is another being spoken about on here as in danger of being delisted. These two selections are but a couple of so many we seem to have got horribly wrong. Yes Cook may still make it as may Gys, but even if they do they are a mile behind the other two. Yes I know drafting is littered with mistakes, but we seem to have made far more than all the other clubs. Now I know drafting is not an exact science and many will say, look at the other clubs that also passed on these players, but that is not the point. The point is that we have had professionals in one of the most important positions in a football club and one would have to say overall, when looking at our recent drafting history, that we have failed miserably. We were told that we would fix up our midfield a few years ago and that we would now draft quick players with skill, who could play in the midfield. Feel free anyone to disagree with this next statement, "IMO we have the slowest and worst midfield in the AFL and the worst disposal of any club." How has that happened? It seems to me that we over analyze every potential draftee and thereby miss the best footballers. We have probably drafted some very nice lads however. We need to fix this problem right now, as if we don't, given our list and the opportunity we might get this year with high picks, we may be doomed to the bottom of the ladder for a very long time.

Heavens above... Another one. Cue the three amigos. lol The best part was when the point of the thread - our lack of senior players due to Bailey - pivoted to John "My Friends" McCain here blaming Neeld for form and confidence issues, possible delistings of players that haven't left yet, and desired his instant removal.

How about another poll asking if you were sick of Viney threads, should you have opened another one?

Getting rid of Rivers would be the epitome of 'throwing out the baby with the bath water.' He's not that bad and has been a reliable player for the team this year. Extend.

No, not Blease getting a nomination for Rising Star, and no, Neeld hasn't handed in his resignation... Dunn has removed the 'tache!! It's gone! He is bereft of facial hair! He's had a shave! This will be joyous news to his numerous critics.

If anyone just looked at their ceiling and shook their head - I'm with you.

"But with the large combo we get a free 1.25 litre bottle of Coke."

KingDingAling... perhaps you should make the sporting gesture of offering your forum name to GNF... god knows he's earned it with that post!

We should have taken Kurt Tippet

No. Both will be great players but Watts will be better.

IMO the club has drafted fine...it was ditching players like McDonald, Yze, White so early on that ultimately hurt the team going forward. An extra year for those players and the younger players would have had valuable guidance. There's also the overrating of the team by Melbourne fans and media alike. Everyone expected Melbourne to follow the Hawthorn model, even though it managed to draft superstars in the 2001 and 2004 drafts: Melbourne never had the likes of a Franklin, Hodge, or even Crawford in the team. Dees have a great group of young players. Every team has made mistakes, but Melbourne's are magnified because it's had so many top draft picks. This team will eventually be better than Richmond, North. I have no doubt about that.

Is that an offer? I'll throw in my sister and a couple of 'project player' nephews too.

I hope the club sees the error of its ways and resigns Green for 3 years and then picks up Juice Newton to help solidify the forward line. If Neeld doesn't get this done on day one of the trade period then he must be fired!

The Only Senior player we should have kept, & made a big mistake with re missing his leadership, is & was Jnr MacDonald.

Is that a horse I see bolting into the distance?

Rivers is a free agent - we can't trade him - if PA want him and he wants them, he can just go there - gratissimo

1 amigo 3 DL accounts

ErggghhhhMaaaaaaaaaaGEEERRRRRRRRDDDDHHHHHH, Mods please delete this dribble

Would a tough pre-season and frank assessments of a player be more demoralising than being beaten by 186 points? If yes, you are doing football wrong.

The contract isn't an official, binding contract. What part of that don't you understand? You can keep looking at the pictures, but perhaps read what Jack actually said in an interview a couple of months ago... http://www.theage.co...0629-21899.html ''I know there's a bidding system to go through and it could be that I don't end up going to the Dees, but that's life, that's footy. ''[Dad] keeps his lips shut about a few things. I don't think he's telling me too much, but he's just told me that if they don't reckon I'm worth what they have to use, then they won't pick me." Sounds like young Jack is fully aware of the "agreement" between he and the MFC, which is obviously that we don't have a written agreement that we WILL take him. In that respect, you are totally wrong. In regards to him being a potential number 5 pick so we won't use a higher selection on him. IF, and it's a bloody big if, the Club rate him as a top 5 pick, of course we would use Pick 3/4 on him, there's no argument there (except for trying to make special deals). Where the argument raises its head is the fact tha tyou think he is rated Top 5, and a massive majority of punters don't, it's as simple as that. But just because you rate him in that category doesn't mean that anyone who thinks differently are incorrect, or living in fantasy land. Personally, I don't see enough of the Under 18 competitions to give an educated assessment on where players are. I rely on the media, especially the likes of Kevin Sheehan and Emma Quayle, to give their views. Because of that, Whitfield is the obvious number 1 pick in my opinion. If we had the number 1 selection, I'm pretty sure we'd take Lachie in front of Jack. From all reports Grundy is top 5, although this could change, especially with the fact the element of risk with taking young rucks with high picks is a high risk/high reward tactic. Wines is rated highly, Toumpas must be top 5, Daniher from all reports is ranked higher than Viney. According to some reporters on Saturday night, Garlett is a potential top 5 pick. The thing that is becoming apparent is the fact that the standout 2 or 3 (Whitfield, Toumpas and Grundy) are ahead of the "peleton". Will GWS or GC "risk" missing out on any of those players just to try and shaft us? You are extremely paranoid if you feel that way.

You seen Brent Moloney play?

What we really need is another poll to ask whether we really need to have another poll to identify which options should be included in the Jack Viney poll. How many agree with me?

Mattingley - I thought I told you to shave those sideburns! You're off the team!

It's very easy to slam the picks but to do the exercise properly you have to look at the other players available after the picks. If you look through the drafts you would be surprised to see how few there are that would have been better. There are plenty of smokeys that were picked much later but obviously weren't picked by any team in the rounds where we picked our players. Hindsight is a great thing but pretty useless. I had a look through Sydney's draft picks over a similiar period. They are renowned for recycling players they get for nothing. Very interesting how many duds they've picked in the draft. They have done worse than us. I bet if you went through the exercise for most teams it would be the same. It shouldn't be called the draft it should be called the lottery. You still don't know what you're going to get, even nowadays with the feeder comp;s etc. Cook over Darling looks like a howler now. Darling was probably a West Coast set up. The word on him at the time was he was a real head case. Suspended from school then night club fights before the draft. Now he seems fine but he could have been a disaster. Also who's to say there wouldn't be a major go home factor for him. (Trying to see the good side to this story ) People are very quick to diss Gysberts who's been totally hampered by injuries. You don't have a first game like him against Geelong at Geelong in a losing team and play that well if you are a dud. The Cats are still in to him big time and were then and there recruiting track record is as good as any. Give the kid a bit of time. We didn't need another key back like Talia, we needed a gun midfielder. Give him an injury free pre season and I'm betting he'll come through next year. Watts v Natanui. This debate will still be going in 10yrs. Watts is going to be a fantastic footballer wherever he ends up. Natanui will never be the same calibre of pure footballer. He can't read a game and his numbers outside of the occasional spectacular Ruck contest are way less than you'd think.

I disagree... how many of our high draft picks and rookie draft picks have won the Bluey (which is irrelevant as it is internal so is not a good indicator) or reached AA status over the past decade? I would argue that those who have are more the exceptions that prove the rule. Players in the top 10 to 15 draft picks are there for a very good reason. If we had opted for Nic Nat over Watts, there would have been just as many complaints, if we had not taken Scully and Trengove, these forums would have gone into meltdown (the biggest argument was over who should be ranked 1 and 2). Give Misson and the rest a good go at the list and lets see how things are looking following another full pre-season (they were NEVER going to get the list into shape in a single pre-season). Also, bring in some recruits such as Cloke who are from clubs with a stronger culture, so that they can add their influence... we saw it happening with Clark almost from the day he arrived at the club; we need more of that.

I think that if you look at MFC's drafting in isolation, then yes, it looks pretty ordinary of late, but with a few gems as well... if you look at it in terms of the bigger picture (all clubs), I think you will find that we have done no worse than most other clubs, if not all. Rather than poor drafting, the problem is more likely to have been in our development of these players and until more recent times, our facilities. These things are changing for the better with new development staff and better facilities, so as fitness levels improve, we will hopefully start to see a few of these so called "duds" stepping up.

"oh gee I was so taken aback when Brock said he left MFC because they tanked that I didn't think to ask him why he went to Carlton" Sheahan's a liar or an idiot - or most likely both.

Was he 30? For some reason I thought he was late first round. Probably lessens my sentiment but I still rate him as a failed pick, though. Can we please never again pick blokes with flawed, high-ball-drop kicking actions? Fmd.

He just won this weeks rising star

Pretty sure Gysberts wasn't a shock at 11. Maybe to armchair recruiters, but Geelong & Sydney were both said to be very keen. Definitely has the talent. It's the physical side & attitude that needs work, and I reckon both of those clubs would back themselves to fix a player in those areas. As we should do now. But is it nature or nurture? I firmly believe the biggest influence in our "poor drafting record" has been our inability to develop those we have drafted.

Some might suggest hisisnt the Crime of the Century but he is sure to need to take the Long Way home if he is to make any further impact, thats just Logical

MFC 2000 Pick 16 Scott Thompson (went home to S.A) MFC 2001 Pick 9 Luke Molan MFC 2002 Pick 14 & 15 Daniel Bell and Nicholas Smith MFC 2003 Pick 3 Sylvia Pick 5 B McLean MFC 2004 Pick 13 Matthew Bate Pick 15 Lynden Dunn (Pick 15 was from Crows for Thompson) MFC 2005 Pick 12 Nathan Jones MFC 2006 Pick 12 James Frawley MFC 2007 Pick 4 Cale Morton Pick 14 Jack Grimes MFC 2008 Pick 1 Jack Watts 17 Blease 19 Strauss MFC 2009 Pick 1 Scully Pick 2 Trengove Pick 11 Gysberts Pick 18 Tapscott MFC 2010 Pick 12 Lucas Cook MFC 2011 Pick 11 Traded for Mitch Clarke The jury is still out from 2007 onwards IMO, but most of our first round draft picks from the first half of the last decade have been ordinary players at best. This is one of the main reasons we have been so bad for the past 6 years. How we can identify and develop blokes like Jolly, Jamar, Davey etc from the rookie draft but then be unable to nail our high draft picks astounds me.

I don't think things can ever get any worse than the 2001 draft, still hurts to look at it.

Hardnut/tonatopia: "This club is pathetic, the board & coach must be held accountable." Sane posters: "The coach is 5 minutes old & while decision making from the board has been a mixed bag they have had to deal with some pretty sticky circumstances." Hardnut/tonatopia: "What is it you like about Neeld & his gameplan?" Sane posters: "Pretty much nothing at the moment, but hopefully with a good off-season we'll see improvement next year. Sacking the coach now is not a viable option so I'm prepared to back him in. Give it time." Hardnut/tonatopia: "We've heard that for the past 6 years. How about some results now?" Sane posters: "Yes, it is frustrating how long it has taken, but there has been poor recruiting, a leadership vacuum & a general lack of experience too." Hardnut/tonatopia: "Heard it all before, more excuses, excuses, excuses. Coach A of Club B said that x must be done in order to be successful. Neeld isn't isn't doing that." Sane posters: "Well, while Coach A may've said that did you know that in his first year at Club B he actually did y NOT x?" Hardnut/tonatopia: "I'll have to look into that further... Didn't this, this & that happen?" Sane posters: "So? That wasnt your original point. Coach A actually did y NOT x as you suggested." Hardnut/tonatopia: "Was just trying to have a discussion, no need for the venom." Sane posters: "There's no venom, you just seem to have adopted a misguided, bordering on the nonsensical agenda. Every time somebody calls you on it or debates the issue & wins you cry about being picked on by a horde of unthinking plebs who aren't letting you have your say. You hijack every thread possible with this circle jerk & wonder why there is such frustration towards your posts. We all know your opinions by now, you're entitled to them, can't we just agree to disagree?" Hardnut/tonatopia: "But this club is pathetic, the board & coach must be held accountable."

You are becoming quite sedate now Jaded. It took you 5 lines to suggest a violent solution this time.

This thread actually seems like a suitable opportunity to express some views on the current state of the application of the rules of the game. First, let me categorically state that I am in no way ‘umpire bashing’ – I believe the umpires do an excellent job under very difficult circumstances. Let me address two issues as examples. First, the ‘interpretation’ of the rules approach – I believe free kicks should only be paid for blatant breaches of the rules. For example, a push in the back is a ‘push’ in the back which clearly and wrongly advantages the infringer – it is not ‘a hand in the back’ which is insignificant (and may be played up for a free kick). I am sure others will give more examples of this type of interpretation. Second, rules which should go – the advantage rule and the 50 m penalty are two examples. (Again, I am sure others will produce more examples.) The advantage rule is too arbitrary in its effect (eg when all players on both sides stop, except for the one with the ball), and the 50 m penalty is too great – why not 20 m or 25 m, and allow the umpire to give a double penalty or more if necessary? (Yes, I appreciate that is an interpretation.) I offer these comments purely as examples for discussion purposes, I’m not an expert in this area. Again I also emphasise that this is not intended to attack anyone – it is intended to provoke thoughtful responses on how to make our game easier to play, easier to umpire, and easier for players and spectators to understand.

Beamer has been a loyal servant and a good clubman. That said, he now plays rugby. Get ball, tuck under arm, take two steps, get tackled, try to break tackle, fail and fall to ground, free kick to opposition. We have no room in our side for a rugby player. Sad but true. One other talent, constantly pointing out to team mates where to go. That talent is not highly sought in rugby players.

Its a conundrum ina fashion. Does one hang too much on what was a past effort as compared to the how and why of the current. Could Beamer regain his form ? How much of that was actually dependent upon his partner in Russian ? Was Beamer simply punching way above his game for a short while.. i.e a filament burnign bright then out !!But for mine the real question is how does a fairly accomplished player go literally fromn Go to Woe so dramatically and so quickly ? Some will undoubtedly attempt to draw in a Neeld corrolation to events but surely thats improabable. Neeld is very much about serious accountability of the player to his game. He appreciates those that get stuck in and this was at the very least a large part of Beamers game, i.e being in the middle of it. Beamer's displaying none of his trademarks in any grand fashion this year. How do you forget to play footy ?

Trading Sylvia isn't in our best interests. We are looking to improve and fast - Sylvia up and running quickly improves our side. He has been injured most of his career, now he is getting right, would be silly to trade him, Plus, after 13/15 in this years draft, it drops off dramatically. And, Sylvia wouldn't net us a first round pick anyway, so we would be looking at a mid 20's. A kid in the 20s guarantees nothing, whereas a fit Colin Sylvia is our best player. And we haven't even seen the best of Sylvia.

Remember 186 and his role in it. Unfortunately he is playing worse than his peers in a very poor midfield. Jones keeps getting better, the kids are improving and will continue to do so. Moloney isn't and won't. Experienced players are needed, but only if they add to the team. This year he hasn't and therefore let him go.

Gysberts over Talia I'm not that uncomfortable with. I have not seen a single Crows game this year but even if Talia is verging on AA (really?), we still have T-Mac and Frawley who are going to be around for a long time together, as well as Garland (having a bad year granted), Rivers still has a few years left, etc. We are fine for talls down back. I still think Gysberts will be a player too. I agree that Cook over Darling is looking like an absolute howler. One thing that is often overlooked is the Scully, Trengove 1+2 combo. Now, Scully is now irrelevant, but I've monitored him at GWS and he is hardly setting the world on fire. Trengove likewise. Now I'm sure our boy will end up a gun (heck he's captain at 20) but there have been several players taken after them that look like bona fide stars. The guy taken at 3 being one. BP famously didn't bother interviewing him.

Sylvia will not get traded end of story he is part of the future and neeld thinks so too

Yep. It was everyone. Everyone except for, well... everyone. Seriously, who wanted that other than a handful of nitwits?

but thats what blease has shown so far and thats promise, no one is saying he is going to be a superstar but he is showing enough to suggest he will be a very good player for the melbourne football club. . he is improving each week and a player thats played 18 games been dogged by injuries no pre season base behind him yet the thought of a full pre season building up his engine and a full year of 22 games into him doesn't excite you at all? this is one bloke that will take the game on and take risks something most of our players dont do at all. blease will be a player.

Haha, you beat me to it Macca. I was just thinking of posting some more STP. The radio station I've been listening to has been playing a fair bit of Tool lately. Can't complain, they've got some great songs Jack Jack 4.5