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I joined 'land and didn't read the rules. Pretty soon I felt like I had been violated and shamed when I had a deletion for going a bit overboard on Morton or Bailey or some such champ. I glanced over to 'ology after feeling deep resentment at the deletions ,warnings and heavy handed personal messages from guys who had been moderating for a long time. When suspended for 3 months I looked and joined the ologists for a while but the numbers were so low it felt like reading a sh!teful blog. Sometimes when you go out with some mates you feel like going to an intimate,quiet bar and sometime you want a crowded ,insane jungle. FWIW (an acronym I learned here) I like the idea that there is a choice between a huge powerhouse like Demonland and a little nuthouse like ology . We need plurality in this life. The thing is-I love every one of you sick units whether you be an anal accountant from Vermont or a drug addled Aura-reader from Bangkok. But I still want the right to talk absolute sh!te to all of you and for you to understand that it is only talk. For that reason I will give some money to try to resurrect the the rusty Valiant in the yard that is "ology. The reason for my love of all of you losers is that we have suffered much because of that which unites us And one day all this too shall pass.. What a day that will be.

We've all known for a while that Melbourne is desperate for pace in the midfield, but I'd contend that we also need quality inside mids. Some supporters think that Magner, Couch, Jones, Moloney and Trengove have this base covered. I don't. Along with key forwards, key defenders, and rucks, A grade inside mids are the most important players at the club. Winning contested footy is paramount. Without being disparaging to any current players I reckon we have two potential A grade mids in Trengove and Jones. Viney will be a Godsend and imo will become our best inside mid and one of the best in the game and we'll need at least one other quality inside mid at this draft. That may be Wines, Stringer, Vlastuin, Hrovat, etc. If we're fortunate enough to get Toumpas he'll add some of the pace and polish on the outside, plus he can win his own contested footy. Beams is now a moot point, but he and Wellingham aren't inside mids and I certainly wouldn't have given a nano seconds thought to trading precious top 5 picks for them. I wouldn't do it for Boak either. I equate a football club's list to the structure of a house. Inside mids are the foundations; the spine (goal to goal line) is the slab; rucks are the roof, outside class and good flankers are the quality of the fit-out, and depth and fringe players make up the rest. But I stress, it's quality inside mids that are crucial, otherwise cracks appear. You can have half a dozen inside mids, but if they're not A grade I'll show you a crap team. There are clearances and then there are quality clearances. GWS have been very clever in their list management. They've got two key forwards that will dominate for a decade, a key back in Davis that will do likewise and a host of quality young inside mids that will serve them well in the not too distant future. And it's not that I don't like quality finishers with speed, as I do, but they're job is far easier in a good team. And a good team has A grade inside mids who win contested footy, make good decisions, and have clean disposal. GWS are ready to add the class on the outside that a Lachie Whitfield brings. Although they'd be tempted by Grundy. Pick 3 - Toumpas (class runner with grunt and elite kicking) Pick 4 - Stringer (inside mid/forward 'beast') Pick 13 - Wines, Kennedy, Garlett, Mayes, Vlastuin - (mixture of class and grunt - best available) Pick 20 odd - Viney (inside mid) We really need to go best available with our 3 first round picks. It's tempting to go for outside class at 13, at the expense of a Wines type, but you can't get enough quality inside mids. And the best inside mids are also good distributors on the outside (without the line breaking pace). Wines and Garlett may well be gone by 13, and so might Mayes, but we've seen enough to know that we'll still get a quality player. It's hard to fix all your problems in one draft, but we should go a long way to solving most of them. A small forward later in the drafting process will be a priority. Geelong won a flag on the back of two drafts - 1999 and 2001. The 2001 draft delivered Bartel, James Kelly, Stevie J, and Ablett - all genuine A graders mixed with greats of the game. We have the opportunity to kick hopefully similar goals with Viney, 3, 4, and 13. It would be madness to trade away our picks. I know there are no guarantees and I know we've made previous mistakes, but this draft is exceptional at the pointy end and it's worth remembering that there are genuine stars entering the game every year. We're in a prime position to finally grab a couple.

I agree , Can we get him or is he contracted?

I hope this Karma guy is a Russian Psychopath .

He's wearing socks with thongs. Clearly a criminal.

Trade Olisik for Mikey and Michael Newton Magic. Everyone wins (i think)

Cannot accept players with mis-spelt first names like this .

Surely having a single forum doesn't restrict thought? But I'm not trying to be biased to demonland, or one single forum. It's an objective philosophical question. Why need another forum, when there are already enough to perform the very same function? Is it that having another forum increases the chance of posting nonsense and not having your flawed logic pointed out? Anyway, I think DC is correct.

It's amazing how much Blind Freddy knows about footy... He may be handicapped but he is getting the most out of life!

My understanding of how Demonland works is that every foolish statement needs to be countered with an equally foolish statement in the opposite direction. A combination of yin and yang and Newton's Third Law. Thus, I contend the watermelon is pushing the cat into the lake.

I don't quite understand why people think that teams aren't trying because of the Keeper rule. If it wasn't for keeper and teams were still struggling we'd still have the same problem - that's fantasy footy. FWIW I think it's a clever trade that uses the rules well. The only thing I've not been thrilled about is that I initially drafted with the 4 keepers in mind - hence picking quite a few young players who I thought would be guns over some other players. At the end of the day, however, that's what the group voted and I'll happily go along with it because it's all a bit of fun.

I dated a female horse once. She was a hurdler. At the start it was wonderful and I didn't care what people said about us. In the end there were too many obstacles put in front of us. and she turned out to be a Night-Mare.

only 99 ?

Just as a side issue.... anyone see the irony of a player like Harry O'Brien leaving to go to another club because of money? with his selfless, non-materialistic lifestyle? I can't see it happening, the Pies are gonna be stuck with him until they force him out

Part of that is due to bad luck, if Mitch Clark, Liam Jurrah, James Magner, Tom Couch, Rory Taggert and Tynan were playing there would certainly be a large changeover and a fairly large improvement (Mitch Clark is a large amount of improvement on his own!)

Super keen for Demonology to revive. I can't attend but am fully supportive of the efforts to get it back up and running. Can't understand why anybody would have an issue with having two sites? I have seen people pay out on Demonology on here, seriously boggles my mind as to why anybody would have something against another Demon website?

I think I'm seeing this slightly differently than some (and admittedly am disregarding his history and just judging the play as it happened). I think he jumped as he thought he was getting a clearer run at the play than he did. I then think he turned his body when he realized contact was coming with Joseph. I don't think he intended not to hit him. I think he did. My issue is more that I guess I'd give him the benefit of the doubt in that context (being mid air) as it was a strange up and under hand pass that you rarely see for the reasons that Aaron Joseph's head clearly felt. I'd guess you could call it reckless, but 4 weeks seems insane when you look at the incident in isolation. Interestingly the umpire who was 10 feet away clearly says to the players 'he was just going the footy' after the incident. My biggest concern with all this is that the game keeps being viewed out of context and I think it makes it very difficult on the players. I imagine it's quite disconcerting for the umpires as they are over ruled consistently.

If you don't want to read and post on Ology Stakka then don't. But it's no ones right to tell others what they can and can't do. If your hyper sensitive posting style didn't cop so much crap you'd still be posting on Ology and adding to your 8000 posts.

Cue the Trade Joel McDonald thread, right olisik?

It's still heaps better than a station which has the rights to show the football and has no worthwhile football programs other than the games it shows.

so tapscott who has only been with us three years interupted by injury you would trade!? yet tapscott is basically the only demon with mitch clark who goes out there puts there head over the footy and shows a bit of cnut! something we lack big time! knows how to use the footy and can take a mark and has only played 25 games? that is by the worst suggestion thats ever been mentioned on this site.

Well Carlscum and in particular Crudd, may the karma faeries smite you both down big time from here on in. What a contrived and cynical defence to offer up. That Carlton would go to such lengths is hardly surprising but for anyone to have the temrity to offer up such p!ssweak mitigation for what is obviously a dog of an act is scandalous. That the AFL even bought it is almost as bad, but then they have form themselves of fawning over their prized franchise players. For mine he should have been rubbed out for at least the rest of the year and ideally one into next season. But again the Teflon t*#d gets away with it. To the AFL, what sort of message do you think this really sends to all the Mums and Dads out there ? You could have been a man about this Crudd..totally fessed up as having a brain fade and totally remorseful but no, you again lie through your arse. Doesnt matter, we cal all see you for exactly what you are , contemptable. Once a star, now just a blackhole.

I still never forgive him for the eye gouge incidents. Dog.

Cam made the decision to leave. That's the end of it really. His last contract was way over. When he left i got over it very quickly.

I'm content with the 4 weeks and the spanner in the works it produces for the Blues. Looking forward to Judd's next party trick- some kind of anal-play. Probably.

Tends to fade out of games?? Seen any grand finals lately?? Will conceed he has had a poor year but is a genuine star. Beams would be great but couldn't impact a game like goddard can when in form. We would also have to giveup something big to get Boak, Caddy or Beams in the form of picks or players, whereas Goddard can simply walk to us. He is 27yo, plays middle, back and forward, a respected on field general who will add much needed class to our mid field and will show our boys how to get the job done.. We have money to burn and need to pay someone big bucks over the next couple to make the minimum TPP. rather give it to someone who has earnt that coin and that certainly isn't Cloke or any of the above. Big yes for me on Goddard.

All the better for Jurrah.

Every time I read one of your trade posts I want to stab my eyeballs out. Just give up already.

Judd - 4 weeks Carlscum - Finals Ratten - Job good weekend there Juddy

You make a very good point here that Geelong will need to get the trade done with Port and they aren't in a great position. I see us trading in players, delisting the ones we don't want, and draft to cover what's left. In terms of players of genuine value that MAY be up for trade they are very few. Moloney: it'd gut me a little because he has been one of my favourites but the does seem to be carrying some baggage and isn't in the game. Petterd: As you pointed out he probably doesn't offer much value but he is talented and has shown his ability to change and influence games in the past. Again I wouldn't like it but it may be the best for both parties. Tapscott: Is another talented player, but not getting enough out of him. I reckon we'll keep him because he gets games despite not playing great, that tells me Neeld sees something he likes. Stef Martin: Let's be clear I'm not advocating us trading, but he has huge market value because he had a good year last year and if he keeps improving his game with no 1 rucking duties for pretty much the rest of the year he could land us a good pick. Spencer: Similar to Stef, he will be given every chance to show his ability for the rest of the year and if he gets better we know clubs need ruck options. For me those are the only trade bait options we have that would be of value to other clubs. Names like Dunn, Bate, Joel MacDonald, and Davey will get us 3rd-4th round picks if and really that means nothing and mostly the first two will just get picks to get them to the clubs of choice. I reckon Joel Mack and Flash will be with us next year, I'm pretty sure Davey has one more year on his contract so unless he retires he'll have one last crack. That's my two cents.

Also ... For coaches in need of ruck options, Bellchambers and Lobbe (both starting rucks for their respective sides) are up for grabs. So too are Waite, Hurley, Rich and Griffen and the surprise packet Callinan. A combination of these players could be the difference between you being a serious flag challenger or an also ran. Get in early! Only days left to go on this incredible sale! Mitcham, Dandenong, Frankston, Sunshine, Pakenham .... and Geelong!

Ben Kennedy wont go as low as 3!! Actually Wines probably wont either, the only thing being that Wines wont be there at 13, whereas Kennedy will still most likely be there at 13. I'd be hoping that one of Garlett, Stringer or Kennedy are available at 13.

Who cares about Davey's kicking skills when he only hangs around the back of Jamar and 'dinks' a kick 15m sideways. We need an 80m ball carrier who can deliver into our fwd line. Davey has never done that.

Poor threads are hurting us...

Not the remotest similarity. Viney?? FFS he returned to Captain the side. He didn't change clubs nor hold our club to ransom and then stiff us at the last minute like Bruce. As for grace and dignity there is nothing in my post that is untrue nor undignified, As I stated he can stay away, I don't wish him any ill-will but I don't want him back at the club because he has shown his disloyalty.

I reckon if Carlton are looking for a new third party deal for Judd's new contract, they could couple Judd's role as ambassador for recycle at VISY with Nando's. Judd could boost sales with their Peri Peri Chicken wings. He would look great dismantling a few.... Apparently regarded by many as a great decision maker..personally I love watching him in full flight, brilliant footballer, dual B'low medallist....but: *Eye Gouge *Pressure points *Chicken wing ....doesn't look great on his CV.

Just read the associated story. Defence lawyer Murley says Nath's dad should have "kept his mouth shut" and was the "author of his own misfortune" however on Mallinder he says he was a bit "exultant" and threw a "ripper" punch! WTF, can one of our legal eagles explain this [censored] weak interpretation of events?

Age was important re Clarke because he cost us our top pick, which may have ended in a 200+ gamer. Not so much if we can get Godders with a $$$ contract only. He would help with our maturity & quality of depth. We start to bat deeper. Boak would be the biggest off the bat help. But not at the expence of our top 2 picks. I'm of the view that Boak & Goddard would help us more than just Cloke.

People of demonland your thinking about this all wrong. If we get goddard and he starts to play well according to some on here we could then trade him. Can I start a trade Goddard thread now?

4 weeks is only a number of missed games. Judd has lost a lot of fans from this and it will be a blight on an otherwise awesome footballers career.

If they don't give him the death penalty I'm going to be [censored] off.

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree does it? Dad shoots a defenceless woman in the face, son gangs up with half brothers to beat up a man who is just trying to assist someone else. Good quality genes in that family!

Bruce was offered a 12 month contract, He wanted 24 months. He walked out at a time when we couldn't even nominate him in the draft and get a trade for him. Hawthorn advised him to stay at Melbourne. He signed a 1 yr deal at Hawthorn for less money than he was offered at Melbourne. He was once a loyal servant but he blotted his copy book and its all his own fault, He has trashed any legacy he had and the results show he played 10 games in 2 years. The 2nd year of the contract he wanted he played 1 game and has broken down. As far as I am concerned he can stay away from Melbourne.

Agree with the ratings on the whole Prof. One comment is you have Jones rated as above average, which is fair. But he used to be a terrible kick, both in terms of accuracy and depth, and has improved this part of his game enormously. Whilst i agree that players often struggles to improve their kicking (because their technique has been honed since Auskick, similar to tennis payers and golfers who struggle to change flaws as a pro) Jones at least provides an example it is possible.

Can we trade you?

who ever retires in the form of their career? Just like Brad Green is copping it now, people are quick to forget what a good player Bruice was for us. Over a 200 game career you're going to get peaks and troughs in form. Credit where credit's due please!

Things might have been so different - if we hadn't pushed Junior at the end of 2010, he would've stayed on as captain, Cam would've re-signed, 186 wouldn't have happened, Bailey would've been re-signed, Scully would still have left, Cam and Junior would've retired with honour at the end of 2011, Beamer would be captain and we'd be 14th with 4 or 5 wins now ...

This reminds me of a typical conversation I have with my mother when we're cooking dinner.MUM: "Can you get the thing from over there and stir it into the stuff, love?" ME: ???

This is seriously lacking in context. What the Deuce are you talking about? Denham didn't have a say in what, and was Smith having a joke or what?

No chance. Beams is a good player in a good team. I wouldn't be so confident that he could play like he does in a struggling side like Melbourne. Wellingham is not the type of player we need. We need muscle and skill not just skill. Skill hasn't taken us where we want in recent time (Morton).