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You're right. Another season like this will take the wind out of my sails. I'll still remain a member, still watch as many games as I can (re-subscribe to Foxtel), still read D'land, still wear my Demons gear to footy training and get ridiculed by my team mates, still get emotional when we win a few games and still take on ridiculous cartons of beer bets that I invariably lose. Bring it on.

ANOTHER Beamer bashing thread... Bravo guys, gutsy... Funny how so many other players who are struggling get all the excuses in the book, but 'Land's favourite whipping boy (when Morton's not playing) gets a new thread every few days. Weak effort guys, and I hope the mods shut this thread down like they do for other players.

Last year the umpires averaged 11 seconds to restart play after a "ball up" and this year they're averaging 4 seconds in an attempt to quicken play. The club believes that this is impinging on Moloney's clearance ability and opportunities to get set for the next stanza of play. Once the ball is taken away from a stoppage Moloney becomes a liability due to his lack of run and spread; and if his greatest attribute has been blunted it reduces his effectiveness. It's the reason he was taken away from the centre square and given a new role.

Great to see Pickles Evans back. Hope he can have a nice finish to the year, looked very promising last season.

The lesson from the Bailey era was that list management isn't like a video game - you can't just get rid of all the older players and get the kids in and expect them to just get better. And this isn't a 'we should have kept Junior' argument because he wouldn't have been enough - he only would have saved Brad Green from the embarrassment of losing the captaincy. We need to change how we do this 'rebuild' - and it has already been illustrated: 1. We got a 24 year old, 200cm power forward, in a trade whose instant respect for his club reinforces my own respect for this great club. 2. We went for a 24 year old former top 10 pick as a ready made 'tall' player. Has shown he can play a role in the backline into the medium term future. 3. A patent desire to give MacDonald, Bate, and Dunn time to ressurect their careers rather than let kids have games they might not have earned. What is needed now is to not get carried away by those who think that we need to shed 10-12 players at the end of the year. The simple question that destroys this idea is - who replaces them? And if you can't answer that sufficiently then it is best to push them harder this pre-season in hopes that they can improve. Green may retire, Bennell, Jetta, MacDonald, Dunn, and Bate may be moved off the primary list, and Rivers and Jamar may be moved to the veterans list. But with Nicho and Magner possibly moving into the primary list, we may only see 6-7 kids from the draft - less if we get a couple of experienced pros like Enright and Sewell in FA, or Boak in a trade. Even less if the only 'kids' we take are Picks 3, 4, 13, and 30ish. The point of all that? Go and get the good kids out there but we need to develop bigger bodies, better leadership, and a solid culture. And all that means - don't get 10 kids and throw them at this group.

Quite correct OD. Once again the sniff or innuendo of Watts having particular failings is raised simply because he is declared unfit. It is no wonder his ankles give up with the weight of BS he is constantly burdended with.

Our reigning best and fairest winner. Has one less than satisfactory year and people on here want him out the door! Dont say loyalty is dead...

Geelong's compensation pick wasn't activated and I don't think Port are in the position to wait for talent, but yes, they'd be able to satisfy Port on the player side of things better than us. In reality, the best way to get Boak is to convince him that we're the club for him. What will Geelong want to pay Boak ? $400K a year ? If Melb offer $550K a year over 4 years will that tempt Boak to move a bit up the highway ? If Boak wants to go to Geelong the whole argument is moot. If he decides on Melbourne our position gets stronger and I wouldn't be offering pick 4. He's not that good. I can see the argument of exchanging picks 4 and 7. As much as I find it unpalatable. But pick 4 without 7 coming back the other way is too much.

The argument that we don't want to spend pick 4 on Boak is a fine one but to support it with the alternative of pick 13 and a player is unsustainable. Pick 13 and a player is not going to get you near Boak, Geelong will be able to offer something quite similar. The only way he'll get to MFC is with pick 4 in the mix and a deal too good for Port Adelaide to ignore. I'm happy for posters to push the use 3 & 4 in the draft line but you need to accept that it means no Boak and stop icing your cake with that idea. The best case Boak solution is 4 + 13 for Boak + 7. Caddy might be a different proposition because Essendon's first available pick will be well in the 30s after they use their first rounder on Daniher. 13 plus a player may have traction there dependingon whether anyone else gets involved. We've got a lot of alternatives when you work in pick 3 for Jack Martin. This has the advantage of guaranteeing Viney in the 2nd round because I don't think GC will bid for him. I still like Martin, Boak, pick 7 and Viney - it's a good problem to have.

Is he tall? Nope, maybe 178cm at a stretch Is he quick? Nope, not over distance Is he multi dimensional, multi tasker, Go forward or back? Nope Elite penetrating kick?Nope Similarity, Judd, Pendels? Nope, Thinking Tony Shaw, Mitchell Real draft value? about 12/18 Match winner? Not that I have seen, good hands in close, great foot soldier Viney Sentiment? Good guys come last, and we are expert at that. About Kevin? Who cares Midfield rating? Jamar, Viney, Howe, Mckenzie, Magner, Maloney, Trengove, Bail, Nicholson, Spencer, Martini? About 16th/18th

If someone is insane enough to risk their 1 or 2 pick on him then I say let them have him. He isn't going to be rated that highly given that he's lost half a season and missed a fair chunk of the carnival (and AA selection). There will be many higher rated players in the draft. It will hurt us in the short term in that we have already indicated that we will take him and could be considered to be lacking in integrity, but it will hurt the club who bid on him more as they will be giving up a very highly rated pick. In the long run I can only see it helping us. If we burn a club badly the first time, will anyone be game to play silly buggers with us again? It would be sending a clear message to the rest of the competition that we will burn you if you try to screw with us. The above being the case, I feel that I should say also that I love JV and really hope to see him in the red and blue next year. I just think it is more important to the club to stand their ground and not be caught bluffing or waste our early picks.

J.Howe must be offerd a 4 year deal now. Howe far away is he from putting pen to paper? This kid will be a star once he learns to kick and run a full game in the middle. Im sure there would be other clubs looking at this gem. Get this done ASAP. Anyone have any info cheers?

Moloney was B&F in 2011, then as he has had a down period, the answer is "Delisted". Get a grip. Moloney is hard at the footy, physically mature (which is much more than others), and has the skills and smarts to be a key midfielder going forward. Kicks the ball 50+. Wake up. Davey, Green, Bennell, Bate, Spencer, Petterd, Jetta & a few others would have to go first.

If we win one and he's on the list, then yes.

Thank god we are not playing tomorrow the MCG would probably have an earthquake at 7pm destroying only the MFC dressing rooms

Hasn't had a good year but desperately don't want to see him go! Has been a great servant of the club and we need his experience & presence around the joint. Will get back into form there's no doubt about it

That's not right. For a compo pick to be used in a draft, it must have been activated by a certain date. That date has now passed. You can't trade it and then the new owner activates it after the deadline. "Clubs will be required to nominate the year in which they plan to use the compensation pick before the first round of the Toyota AFL season in that particular year."

Is it wrong of me to not care if he goes? Past years if he left I would have been shattered but after this year I couldn't care less. I feel like he is easily replaceable, although his older head/footy experience isn't as much. Am I a bad person?

Brent Moloney has declared he wants to stay Won't be traded as he's a Restricted Free Agent

Jack is wll aware and supports the clubs view that if the MFC believe Jack is not the 3rd best player in the draft they will NOT take him. They will not be bluffed by Sheedy in particular. If GWS or GC nominate Jack they must take him. MFC must then decide whether to counter this nomiination and take him at their first pick,,or pass. In my view they would pass. In reality GWS an GC would be damaging their brand by choosing Viney because the club, their supporters, their staff and all and sundry who follow these clubs, or have a financial or pecuniary interest in them would not think Jack is the 1st or 2nd best player in the draft. We will get Viney in the second round.

Well done coach Neeld...You took your time and gave him his chance when he'd done enough and the space was available. My best guess would be a rest for Magner This year has been characterised by the skills ineptitude of the players and the lack of on field cohesion under the new skippers but also the systematic way the new coaching regime has worked through the list;either giving them time on field or training them up until they've earnt the time. I'm glad they havnt been listening too closely to the 'experts' here or on 'Ology and I cant wait for next year and a new list which I'll wager will contain a few suprises.

It'll have to be damn awful to beat last week's display.

I honestly believe there are extenuating circumstances for the current supporter atmosphere. - A new coaching regime with a drastically different gameplan has led to a poor record, positioning us well for drafting. - HWFUA left us with a very good hand of draft picks in a draft dubbed the "super draft". - This is the first "uncompromised" draft in 2 years. - Finally, we have the son of a champion eligible for F/S selection, who looks like being a game-changer himself. These factors add up to an intense focus on the draft well ahead of time. I'm confident similar factors won't be present next season.

If that is all you got out of that entire post, I'm wasting my time. Point missed again. Say hi to Craig Turley for me! *Sigh* How is it conjecture that top picks are of high value? How is it conjecture that most stars are drafted at the pointy end (even our own Clark, Frawley & Jones were taken high in their drafts)? How is it conjecture that trading high draft picks for ok players has been proven to bite you in the bum (see West Coast v Carlton)?*Sigh* At what cost would you take Boak or Beams? I've asked this repeatedly. If it's pick 13 + a player, sure. However if it's pick 3 or 4, you'd want to hope they turn out to be stars. Neither are the best midfielders at their own clubs - are they even that much better than our own Nathan Jones who may be forced to walk or take less cash as we attract these 'proven' commodities? If we were talking about players the ilk of Chris Judd or Gary Ablett - proven stars and culture changers - I'd have no qualms about giving up top picks but to give them up for Beams or Boak wouldn't be the smartest thing to do. Giving up top picks (potential stars/good players/duds) for Beams/Boak (potential stars/good players/duds) is the equivalent of shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic & paying half a million for the honour. "Young list, no midfield, a poor recent history of player development and a team that fails to compete. We aren't Sydney who bring in players that fill holes. We need players to build around. We have a few potentials, but we need 3-4 more" Did you just argue my point for me? It sure sounded like it!

Cadel was nicely boxed in by Sky preventing him from all out attack......they seem to have a number of cunning plans,including Froome as back up. Even if Cadel gets over a tiring Wiggins (and thats Aussie speculation that doesnt appear on British sites) he still needs to get out in front by a substantial amount to be safe on the last TT. I just cant see it. My only hope for Cadel is that I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about!!

It seems the best out come for Boak is for him to land at the Cats, so, can Geelong help us get him there?

You didn't pose the question .... you made an outright statement. You said "I know, a shocking law written by the AFL to keep the lower clubs down in there [sic] place." You said that the AFL created the law in order to promote a disparity in the league to ensure that poor clubs stay poor. That is simply untrue and idiotic. The AFL has done its best (possibly the best in the world) to ensure that the competition is even and that all clubs have a chance of being successful. This can be seen by the introduction of the draft/salary cap system, the distribution of money to less financially powerful clubs, the opposition to free acency and the compromised free agency when they did introduce it. What incentive does the AFL have to make the league less competitive? What incentive does it have to create permanent cellar dwellers? You statement was utterly ridiculous and is consistent with many of your other, poorly thought out and sensationalist posts.

I go every single week but i have got to say that after all the hype of this last rebuild alot of fans have said thats it. I know 2 guys who just cant watch this team anymore which i give it to them for but really my wife always says it to me why do you do this to yourself. I sit at the games and think why dont i just do the same because all they serve up is rubbish and the game is over at quarter time. I cant explain it i just love my club.

Richmond stuffed up top 20 picks in Oakley-Nichols, Richard Tambling, Danny Meyer, Adam Pattison and Dean Polo, none of whom are still at the club. Hawthorn chose Beau Dowler, Luke Brennan, and Mitch Thorpe in the top 10. But both of those clubs have also chosen quality players in Franklin, Roughead, Lewis, Martin, Deledio and Cotchin as top 10 picks. Should those clubs have traded those precious picks ? And you talk of development. Neeld has been at the club for one preseason. How about giving him an opportunity to develop some top end talent. I can't believe this mentality that because we've made some mistakes in the past we can't possibly get them right in the future. And no doubt the dolts that are wanting to trade top end picks for B graders are the same that will cry like stuck pigs in four years time when the pick we've traded ends up being for a budding star of the competition. By all means get Boak, but firstly he needs to be convinced that the MFC is a viable option and if he does then get to work on doing a deal that may involve pick 13 and a player. Port aren't going to let him walk for nothing. It's not as if they'll have the whip hand. Pick 4 is over the odds, especially with the talent on offer in this draft..

When did we have one of those? Howe would have been 15 the last time we played in one...

Hi All, The day that I thought would never come has arrived. It is very deep regret that I inform you that after 11 years Demonland will be using advertising banners on the site. After many years of out of pocket expenses and despite many generous donations I have finally turned to the dark side. I have attempted to make the Google Ad banners as discrete as they can be and attempted to let them blend in with the look and feel of the site. They will be at the top of each page under the main banner, the bottom of the page and after the first post on a page (in this instance there will be no top banner). For those who don't like the advertising banners I am offering a paid subscription based service that will remove the advertising banners from view whilst you are logged in. If there is enough interest I may offer a Members Only forum. This is not a cash grab and all money raised will go towards paying for and maintaining the site, the forum software as well as other associated costs. All remaining funds will be donated back to the footy club. The costs for a Demonland.com membership is as follows: Annual Demonland.com membership is $20 per year. Lifetime Demonland.com membership is $50 for life. - You are also entitled to custom your own title (the wording under your avatar). You can subscribed by clicking the Subscription tab under the main Demonland logo at the top of the page next to the Home tab and follow the prompts through to PayPal. I understand that not everyone can afford this and membership is not required to sign up and read and post on the site. All I ask is that you occasionally look at the advertising and if something catches your fancy then by all means click on the link. Or you can just ignore it. Thank you for your understanding. Cheers and Go Dees, Andy

I wholly agree with the tenet of the article. Garlo's a champion. One day, if the club actually commissions a statue of him, I'll be sure to pay it due respect. http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/7415/newsid/141146/default.aspx

CFH You are part of the reason I hang in there. You have made my day. Excellent work.

Agreed with all but the bolded. It's not the gameplan that has led to a poor record, but the players' seeming inability to actually implement it. I'd probably add to that list: Desire to rid the club of footballers who can't play football.

I would argue that we do need another ruckman. Jamar will be about for another 3 years at this stage, Gawn looks promising, but has had 2 knee recos already. I am not convinced by either Spencer or Martin in their ability to carry the ruck load moving forward. I think the question is more.... should we be taking a ruckman with such a high pick... or should these be saved for midfielders and we take our chances later in the draft... from state leagues, or from other clubs.

Are you serious? You have to be joking when you say some things look more attractive this weekend? What could be more attractive then watching the dee's at a ground where we historically play really well? What about how good a brand of football we are playing? Everyone I talk to just wants to come to games to see Bail's pin point passes and Trengove's lightning speed. Don't forget the opposition either they are a volcano of excitement waiting to erupt. Their coach understands the significance of playing a attractive style of footy to entertain the fans. For me I can't wait to go and scan my premium reserved seat membership which I pay for every year and then have to sit in a General Admission seat. BRING IT ON!

I cannot stand speling errors on websites.

I think you will be quite surprised when he finally plays AFL. I hate it when 'experts' put kids into neat little boxes based on what has gone before. Imagine what I think when pesudo-experts on a forum put kids into neat little boxes based on what has gone before. If we think he is near the 4th best talent in the draft - we will take him at 3 if we are forced to. Hopefully all avenues will be explored to get him in the second round.

I still think Scully will stay (many thanks Nasher)

I'm very confident that JV will be at the club next year whether we have to take him 2nd or 1st round. It's just a game of seeing if GC or GWS are willing to play Russian Roulette with their recruiting and list? Will GC want to risk loosing Lachie Whitfield? Will GWS want to risk loosing Brodie Grundy when they're crying out for a ruckman???

People need to realise that if we do pass on him, which is unlikely in itself, he will not be returning to the club any time soon. And if he was to return to the club, it would have to be done via a trade which would end up being just as costly.

i don't think clubs are going to risk taking him with pick to 1 or 2 just to try and stuff us up...it would be stupid....there are better players rated 1-3 so we can take jack with our 2nd round.....sheedy might have dementia....but silvagni and his recruiters aren't just there to stick it to the dees......they are there to get the best for their club

its disappointing and uplifting all at once to discuss our potential new players; I hate it and love it, just like my missus ! Keep up the conversation !! just like the boss

3 years, perhaps with incentives. Front load if possible. Avg $300k per yr. That is very generous for a second year player with skill issues. If he is the star many say, negotiate a new contract half way through his new 3 yr deal.

If he's not rated in the top five - yes.

sign him up. But 4 years is too long...still unproven in big games.

Here, here! Thats why you find us still doing Pre-season training 10 rounds into the season! It's common knowledge that Neeld and Mission were astonished by how poor our fitness levels were in comparison to other clubs and players. This season has been a write off since the word go as we have bad to use it building up fitness to work into 2013 and beyond! Next year you will see that with fitter bodies comes a huge improvement in skills and gameplay. Mark my words

One of our biggest advantages in attracting Boak is the same thing that got us Clark .... we can get the deal done. We have pick 4 so Boak knows that he can get here easily. Geelong will have two picks at about 20 so a deal will be tough. I like the sound of 4 and 13 for Boak and 7, but if it is just a straight pick 4 swap then I'd probably been fine with it. He is a strong midfielder with pace, so he's definitely the type we need.

I'm confident. Should probably go see a doctor.

The truth is with Collingwoods development program, yes probably they would get a game, and the sad truth is some would have developed into very good footballers.