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But i thought everybody thought he was useless because he isn't dominating AFL as a 19 year old 196cm KP forward?

I enjoyed it

Franklin, Pendlebury, Ablett.

does this mean we have another half back floater?

Ah, i love the assumptions we all make as avid fans because when it comes down to the cruch, we all really honestly don't know.

Amazing the impatience of supporters and the media. The whole Jack Watts criticising that has been a national sport over the last two years has been hysterical. And yet over the past week I've heard Dermott Brereton respond to criticism of Ryan Schoenmakers by saying "Hes just a kid let him develop" on SEN, and then this morning Robert Walls defend Lachlan Henderson by saying 'Hes only a very young kid" in defence of his lack of output. These two are 22 and 23 respectively. Watts is 21. Its great to hear the Cook is starting to show some of the ability that meant we used pick 12 on him..Lets keep nurturing him, let him develop at a natural rate and when he's ready reward him with a senior game...

That is why i don't listen to everybody. I see us with plenty of talls to develop in the next season or two. We need quality mids and 1 or 2 small forwards. We will turn this around fairly quickly I believe.

I have a feeling that 'cookie monster' is gonna grow some serious legs. Awesome nickname, great for banners etc.

The HeraldSun now routinely refers to David King with the prefix "leading AFL analyst" and seems to be seeking out his comment on any and every topic under the sun. The guy makes more failed predictions than a 1-900 number astrology quack. He is the biggest Goose in the Australian football media ... and that is some achievement.

I agree BB, it grieves me to say it but Carlton are bigger news than the Dees. If they lose badly tonight the MFC will struggle to get a line on any subject tomorrow in the HUN. Feel sorry for Ratten but there is sure to be a headline in the next few days like "Commitee tells Ratten he has their full confidence?"

A good/great key forward or in fact 2 of them can improve a midfield . Suddenly a midfield group have 2 terrific targets . The midfield can be more decisive in their actions , for various reasons . The good forward knows where to lead , can play in front all the time etc etc and in general provides a better target . Good key forwards have the effect of straightening a team up . It's hard to measure but it's a reality . And it can extend , and often does , to the half back line . As an example , Collingwoods half back line of Davis , O'Brien and Shaw grabbing the ball , running through the lines and launching it towards their twin towers (either down the middle or when they went wide) Good key forwards add confidence to a team . Cloke would be of enormous benefit to our team .

If Goddard was the Judd of our midfield he'd get tagged out of the game. I can see what you mean BB59, but Goddard is not the solution. I'd go a KPF before I went Goddard. To be honest, I'd be looking at FA for not just Cloke, but for Brad Sewell (give him a three year contract and see if that woos him). Then I'd look at another experienced mid (say Sam Mitchell). Sewell and Mitchell would help nurture guys like Gysberts, Trengove, Grimes and Viney. Then use one or two of the compensation picks on young, quick outside mids. It's not just 'let's go after Cloke and stop there', it's 'let's go after Cloke and target one or two experienced, well respected ball winners, and use compo picks on young mids'.

Can I ask....what exactly has Cam done to be considered a goner ? Corporately and fiscally we seem to be finally healthy. Why change this?

I imagine we'd be getting Cloke as much for his attitude and work ethic as for his ability to take a contested mark. I reckon Neeld's taken a lot from Mick Malthouse's school of thought of players with ambition over players with talent. This is Malthouse talking about Cloke in an interview with 3AW: "He wanted that football, he would demand that football, he would run in front of packs and try to mark the football. He was a big guy, he dominated junior football … but we needed to teach him to jump for the football, because he didn’t need to. But the work ethic of Clokey … is unbelievable. He would get on the track and he would be last off. You would have to rope him and drag him off and he wanted to be the best. Give me a player with ambition – he has got a fierceness for the football. Ambition is the greatest thing of all time – if you lack ambition, you take shortcuts."

Tim Harrington will know what the impact of a big long Cloke contract is on future player payments - that will be factored in. We won't have to worry about David Cloke, Travis will be on a contract to the end of his career so there'll be no more contract negotiations and if where and when he's played becomes an issue then David is the least of our worries. I'm open to the idea if TH does the sums and they come up OK - we don't know how much front-loading space we've got but it could be substantial. Free agency is the big game changer here - the fact that we don't have to give 2 1st rounders like Geelong did for Ottens makes an enormous difference - we can have our FA Cloke and eat our midfield draft too.

lol How pathetic are they? Schwab wouldn't give a sh!t about the players Fremantle are after. And Neeld was the one that got us to go hell-for-leather to get Clark. We are after him because he is the best in the game at what he does. 95 contested marks last year?! That's 4 a game! He's an ugly bastard, but he can play footy.

Quite amazing poll result so far. Genuine 50/50.

Freo were offering him 1 mil a year and its been reported that they upped that offer. If he leaves Collingwood it is for money. There is no way in hell i want us paying that money for Cloke. Knowing my membership money would be paying for that would make me cry.

Sorry haven't we just paid a shitload for a big forward until 2014 and resigned a ruckman, shesus

Buddy, Cotchin and pendles

Yes. They finally do get home after an unusual finish. Tim Smith who had been lively all day up forward and kicked two goals, marked on the siren no more that 15 metres out. Instead of going back for the kick and a certain third goal, he played on and kicked truly but of course it was no score because the game was over the second he played on. D'oh! Scorps win by 13 points. Casey Scorpions 4.3.27 9.7.61 11.9.75 13.12.90 Collingwood 3.3.21 4.4.28 8.8.56 11.11.77 Goals Casey Scorpions Cook Martin 4 Smith 2 Couch McGough Tynan Collingwood Boland 3 Farmer Ferraro Hahn Mooney Paine Seedsman Witts Wood Best Casey Scorpions Martin Riseley Spencer Fieldsend Cook Couch Collingwood Sundberg Hine Hellier Farmer Yagmoor Seedsman Final stats winners Couch 27 (10 hard ball gets & 8 tackles) L Tynan 26 Panozza (& 7 tackles) Fieldsend 20 Martin 19 (& 18 hit outs) My best player by a country mile - Luke Tynan - just ahead of brother Josh and Tom Couch. Special mention to Aaron Davey for a brilliant second quarter. He was too brilliant for this company.

Ha ! The only forum I knew about was the Forum cinema . Now a Theatre .

And ten years later you still haven't changed!

You're lucky, when I was a 6y.o., the only forum I could exercise any right on was the Roman forum.

Is Cook looking good for a debut against GWS? Dare I say unleash the Cookie monster?

go the monster

Franklin - Would love to see him make magic in a Demon jumper Pendles - Competition for Dunn for stupid facial hair Selwood - Is brilliant, tough and inspirational and I wouldn't get grumpy every time he manufactured an over the shoulder tackle on himself

I love the Russian but he might want to take back this quote about Brent Moloney in today's Age (Jamar re-signs with Demons). Not his finest moment:-

Billy Battenburg?

Great work Russian When on song his ruck work is some of the best in the comp. Good to have you on board for the next 3.

WHAT? Jamar signs for three years? THREE YEARS? Beamer also states he wants to be a demon for life! Golly gosh according to some media people (I refuse to call them experts) the senior players weren't happy about Neeld and also not being in the leadership group. So far the senior players have a funny way of showing their unhappiness.

Tell the Hawks supporter at work we are chasing Buddy and Hodge, we're not, but if they can spread that [censored] then send the ball back over the net.

wanting him gone is worse IMO

Well done Mark. Welcome back. It's a relief now, that the deal is done and a further plank is in place. We could have gone either way with the Russsian, but one club players are the Ideal.

FRAC* David King said he'd be staggered if Jamar was at the Dees in 2013. Happy to help with 'staggering' of David King. * Failed Richmond Assistant Coach

Geez this guy can't do anything right by some people here... They'd tell him to pipe down and let the leaders lead if he was still vocal or they'd tell him to get over it if he toned it down a bit to leave room for the leadership group... Far out

Utterly ridiculous thread. We are in no position to be claiming any wins. After Monday, I expect Demonland to return to its regular tone.

Obviously Frawley will come in. I reckon if Blease is fit that might be the only change and you find Bail is first emergency. I'm taking my best mate into the MCC as a guest for the first time. Unfortunately he is a Filth supporter. He'd be a great bloke otherwise. Might let him loose in the Frank Grey or Sir Berny bars as we watch an historic upset- the Demons costing two teams in two weeks the top spot on the ladder. Then i saw the Pies ins and suddenly me not so confident. But like when Mark Thompson went to Essendon last year and they dismantled Geelong when no-one thought they would, i too am hoping Neeld will be able to dismantle the Pies and we see another rip snorting game of footy!

Bard Green?!!! Heard him say he wasn't sure of his of his future beyond 2012... To be a Dee, or not to be a Dee. That is the question.

many people doing the walk to the g on monday?

sometimes.... does English offend you ??

I agree. Geelong couldn't win a flag with 9 goal match from GAblett snr. You need many avenues to goal. But supply is the critical element. Mooney effective. McClure was effective. Schwartz was effective. But running goal kickers is imperative to break open play.

he's still hard but doesnt impact games like he once did. pass

We only know of Cloke because of his fathers ego. Are we attempting to develop a potent winning team or just a 'collection' of talent ? This year introduces free agency. There will be a trade period whos like we have never witnessed before. Personally id be making a beeline for Goddard. Theres one we do know will be up for grabs, just by way of example. Stick Brendon in the guts...put Viney and others around him and watch the scoreboard light up. I have no doubt other potential goodies will appear as season comes to a close.

But if you have the cart for the next 5 years, your horses have plenty of time to get going... I have no issue with the 'get the midfield right' argument - it is the priority. Midfields win flags. But how often does the second best KP forward in the game become available?

Despite the MFC's spectacular inability to produce elite mids it's reasonable to suggest that midfield concerns can be addressed far more easily than the ability to procure a gun key forward. I don't overly rate Essendon, but they're top two with just two A grade mids and I'd argue that neither are "stars". West Coast are rock solid these days and sit a top the ladder; and while I acknowledge the contributions of Priddis, Kerr, Shuey, Gaff, Rosa, etc, I'd also argue that none of that group are bona fide stars. Some will put Cox in as a midfielder, which is fair enough and Kerr was once a star, but you get my drift. West Coast are an even side across the field and their game-plan is now second nature. They don't have any weak links. I believe that when Trengove overcomes his woes, plus the addition of Grimes to the midfield, with Viney and a couple of early draft picks in the wings, along with Gysberts to come back, that we're well on the way to developing a solid midfield. I doubt we'll get Cloke, but this club will be well on the way to being a top 4 side by 2014 if we were able to snare him. Cloke would give us the opportunity to fight for a flag within the next 5 years, but I can't say the same for the Travis Boak's of this world.

Cloke would be awesome no doubt (and suck up a lot of spondulaks) But I'd have to rate an awesome midfield as a higher priority Of course if we could have both.....................................its nice to dream

An A-grade midfield is a given ... but so is having big key forwards who can throw their weight around and give defenders the jitters. You're wrong about Geelong - they had Ottens rotating through the goal square as well. He's a large part of the reason why they won those flags, which underlines the argument as they took the punt and shelled out to get him over from Richmond. Collingwood lost with Cloke and Dawes?? Check the record for 2010. I think they might've won the flag. And saying that St.Kilda and Port only just missed out still supports the pro-gorilla argument because the fact that they actually made it to the last Saturday in September shows that you need these types of players in your team. You can develop and hope and hope and develop with young talls but the cold hard reality is that the big gun forwards are VERY difficult to come by. They are gold. And that is why Cloke has a 5mil/5year price tag on his head.

Gorilla forwards. Or forwards that are any good. Geelong had two very average forwards in 2007 (Mooney and Ablett). In 2009 they had Mooney and Hawkins. Again they were hardly superstar players then either. And Hawkins played half a game in 2011. West Coast had Lynch but he was hardly a superstar. Collingwood lost with Cloke and Dawes. St Kilda lost with Reiwoldt and Koschitzke. Port Adelaide kept getting done with Tredrea. The pertinent question is actually whether you can name any team of the last 15 years that won a flag with anything less than an outstanding midfield unit in the premiership year. The simple answer is that you cannot. For the time being, Mitch Clark fulfils one of the big key forward roles. We can continue to develop Cook, McDonald, Sheahan, Fitzpatrick, Gawn, Spencer etc whilst we build midfield strenght. If they start seeing the ball 70 times a game like the Geelong, Collingwood teams of recent times, watch how good our forwards will look then!

Let him play on the top CHFs this year and learn the craft - I am not in any way talking "tanking" but this year is for development and learning, and will never be about finals. Sure, maybe give him some time at CHF when there is no top opponent from whom to learn, and to give him a feel for the position, but think ahead.