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Cloke not worth near the coin being talked . Hope we stay well clear.

With Cook having a good game and taking some big grabs, Fitzpatrick improving and the good form of Jai Sheahan and Troy Davis, our tall stocks are on the improve. In the seniors with Clark ok at one end and Frawley at the other and with Watts settling in the back line for a while and with Sellars to pinch hit and Garland and Rivers, we seem to be looking ok in the tall department. Why am I saying all this, because I don't want us to go after Cloke at over a million a year for 5 years. I can see another Templeton situation if we get him. I would rather develop our own and go hell for leather after quality mids and a small forward or two.

In the 2005 Grand Final, Sydney won the flag by kicking 8.10.58 (the same score we kicked on Saturday night). The drawn GF of 2010 saw both Clubs kick 68 points each. Finals footy will often see low scores kicked, and the experience our team can get playing in low scoring matches like Saturday night, especially in winning sides, will only help when we start playing September footy.

There's no doubt that Garland will get more attention and pressure if he remains a forward in the future but with Frawley coming back into the side, it's likely that he'll stay there for a few more weeks. Let's see what happens. Jack Grimes was slotted to go into the midfield last year at the time he was injured. He was always destined to be there and if his body is willing, he'll stay there. In addition, the return of two of our early draft picks in Jordan Gysberts and James Strauss will make things interesting as well. Gysberts would add an extra dimension to the midfield mix and Strauss could fill the void in defence left by Grimes. Jack Watts will most likely stay in defence for the time being but I suspect that he's ultimately destined for a key forward role. Importantly, we're developing a more flexible team.

We don't trade for cloke is a free agent we keep our picks the afl will give pies compo picks if he leaves

Beats the crap out of losing...i will take it.

Everyone on here should go and have a look at the 'Behind the scenes' video on the club website. It shows a revealing moment between a coach, who has had an enormous amount of nonsense thrown his way, and his family - relieved for each other after a great win. http://www.melbournefc.com.au/video/tabid/8667/contentid/456262/default.aspx

I think he would be a perfect fit for Melbourne and the way Neeld wants to play. Cloke would play CHF and could lead further up the ground, giving an option for our 'kick it long round the boundary' game style. Mark it, turn, and go long to Clark who is hard to beat one on one when the ball is put on top of his head. The fact he is a free agent would mean we can use our high picks on mids, mids and more mids.

I'd be throwing $1m+ at Cloke. We can afford it at this point in time. Clarke was paid more than $1m this year and will be ony $500k the rest of his contract. We could do something similar with Cloke. Would net us immediate results. Would set up our forward line for the next decade. We have the picks to satisfy Collingwood. Pick 4 (Compo) and pick 12 (compo) should get the job done! Well worth it, he's the best contested marking player in the AFL, he's perfect age, in his prime, could average 60+ goals a year for next 8 years

It couldn't happen to a more deserving team. I can't help but get the feeling that it's Cloke Sr that is the greedy one, and Travis is just going with his father's wishes. As highly as I rate Cloke, I wouldn't want to see him at the Dees if it meant paying $800k+ for 5 years. That money could be much better invested elsewhere.

Poor Eddie must be having trouble sleeping with all this Cloke business going on. To quote the man himself, "The tom-toms are beating". Or, in this case, is it the "Travis-travises"?

This win is the most important win I can remember in a very, very long time - for many of the reasons expressed above by Demon4Life - but also for many other reasons. I actually reckon it could be the start of the making of this young player group. The criticism of Neeld prior to this game was absolutely appalling. It was relentless ... and quite ridiculous. Any rational, informed observer could see what Neeld was attempting to do with this list, our club culture and the game plan. Anyone with the most basic, rudimentary knowledge of our list, and its 'progress' over the past four years, also knew exactly what Neeld needed to do. And he was doing exactly what needed to be done - in a very measured, deliberate, intelligent, organised and determined way. That he attracted so much criticism from so-called 'expert' commentators and journalists continues to fire me up. It was simplistic, mediocre, populist stuff. That some 'supporters' were also into him in such a relentless way annoys me even more. In my opinion, we are seriously bloody lucky to have this guy. His patience and determination through the first ten games of the season, and then his reaction to winning the game last Saturday confirmed it in spades to me. So much so, I even received the following text (among many) from an Adelaide supporter following our win: "I almost converted to being a Dees supporter when I saw the passion in the rooms as they belted out their song. Someone give Mark Neeld a medal - that guy is first class." This text sums it up. Neeld will start winning back respect for this club. Respect the club hasn't enjoyed for ages. In short, I know it's only one game. I know we're essentially last on the table (the only clubs below us being start up ventures). But the signs are there. And, in my view, they are extremely positive. Mark Neeld you are a Demon! I'm absolutely stocked you're on board. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- By way of reminder, following four years of brutal rebuild, and too many first round draft picks to mention, this is what 2011 delivered for us. In short, this is what Neeld inherited - hardly a list on the verge of finals in 2012. 2011 results 1. Swans at MCG - draw 2. Hawks at MCG - loss by 45 3. Lions at MCG - win by 11 (Lions finished 15th in 2011) 4. Gold Coast at Gabba - win by 90 (GC finished last in 2011) 5. Bye 6. West Coast at Subiaco - loss by 54 7. Adelaide at MCG - win by 96 (Crows finished 14th in 2011) 8. North at Docklands - loss by 41 9. St Kilda at Docklands - loss by 20 10. Carlton at MCG - loss 47 11. Essendon at MCG - win by 33 (Dons finished 8th in 2011) 12. Collingwood at MCG - loss by 88 13. Freo at MCG - win by 89 (injury plagued Freo finished 11th in 2011) 14. Richmond at MCG - win by 27 (Tigers finished 12th in 2011) 15. Bulldogs at Docklands - loss by 64 16. Bye 17. Port in Darwin - win by 21 (Port finished 16th in 2011) 18. Hawks at MCG - loss by 54 19. Geelong at Skilled Stadium - loss by 186 20. Carlton at MCG - loss by 76 21. West Coast at Docklands - loss by 48 22. Richmond at MCG - loss by 7

I hate to say this but it looks like the Kangaroos are between Arocca and a hard place.

Thanks P-Man, I only saw a brief glimpse of the segment. RPFC I'm sorry RPFC, I didn't follow the 'honourable losses' argument because I was interested, I just responded to the post about 10+ goal losses. I take it your comment was 'tongue in cheek'? (Bit slow on the uptake today) I know I'm going to cop it for this but imho our win/loss ratio is largely irrelevent this year, just as long as we get the odd win to keep the masses happy. This year is about setting the foundations for the future and ensuring the right behaviours are being followed. I heard Neeld explain why Collingwood is successful as a club, and it's because as soon as you walk in the door you know what the expectations are and if you don't achieve them then you're quickly left behind. I am truly excited about our future and feel free to laugh at me for it, I don't care.

Ok...heres a thought.... Why does ANY player only get to be this that or the other. . Think about the trumps you hold when you have half a dozen players you canmix and match according to the opposition or even the nature of the days fortunes. I get the feeling not only is Neeld trying to develop players beyond limitations hes providing himself with a smrgasbord of options on any game day. Hes trylu thinking TEAM and not just positions. The machine as a total, not as parts !! just a thought.

I wonder if the old phrase referring to Mutton and Lamb rings anyones bells currently ? Cloke is good...but hes not marvellous and certainly not worth the silly money being proffered by some. Good luck to Travis and Dad for extracting what they can, just hopefully not from us Let Cloke do a Buddy and then hed be worth a monty. Our problem ISNT that we have no one to kick goals, its that we dont have a purring midfiled to drive our game. Lets fix the right problem ...huh

Pass from me. He is a flawed player. And very expensive. With a nutcake for a manager!

You win games if you score more goals than the opposition. We did that last Saturday night, and I expect it's a formula Mark Neeld will seek to continue well into the future.

Any strategy for the re-appointment or removal of a CEO that revolves around how on-field results is foolish. He'll be judged on stakeholder engagement, strategic direction, and all the other boring crap you don't care about ADC. His last extension was the judgement of his performance prior to 186, his next one will be based, for better or worse, oh his record since then.

Weak weak comment... the guy works hard and despite being lambasted for poor disposal or low possession rates, more often than not negates the oppositions' more dangerous players.

Forget the goals. The confidence from winning and the four quarter effort is the critical element, The conditions were lousy but belief is more important,

I advocated Watts being in the back-line once it was clear he couldn't impact games at this stage of his career as a forward. A small amount of research will indicate this. Being a key forward is the most difficult gig in footy. There's an art to timing a lead. There's an art to creating space when most clubs are playing a 7th back, implementing zones, and defending space. It's easier to defend space than create it. It takes talent to take a contested mark when you're being double teamed by defenders that are merely trying to spoil. It takes talent to regularly impact games by hitting the scoreboard. It doesn't take nearly as much talent to be part of a defensive unit hellbent on negating. It takes talent to play ahead of the ball because you're trying to create opportunities and not as much talent when you're playing behind the ball and minding a man. The forward's goal is to win the ball, while winning the ball is often not the primary aim of the defender. They're primary aim is to stop their opponent winning the ball, or dispossessing them once they have. A forward relies on winning contested possessions to impact games. A defender may have done their job without winning contested possessions. A forward may get limited opportunites, so when they do they have to make them count. A defender doesn't have to worry about opportunities. His mantra is shut-down, dispossess, negate, niggle, hold, "the boundary line is your friend", etc. Have you ever seen a star goal kicker shunted off to defence for the rest of their career ? But look, I don't expect to convince you. I'm not that clever. Btw, I'm in no way saying that being an elite defender is easy. And I'm not saying that they're not valuable. And I'm not saying that some players aren't suited to a particular area of the ground. And I'm not saying that some defenders aren't more valuable than some forwards. And I'm not suggesting that some defenders aren't elite at reading the play. And I recognise that the best teams set play up off half back. And I recognise that strong defensive teams win finals. But I am saying that when you're playing in defence it's far easier to play your role than it is to make a regular impact on the scoreboard as a forward, whether that be through your own goals, or goal assists. Why do you think Watts is finding it far easier to play in defence and was struggling so much as a forward ? Nah, forget it.

Cloke had 95 contested marks last year. 38 more than Pods who was next best. He is a great forward who kicked 69 goals last year. It's black and white. And we should attempt to change those colours...

Yeah, he kicked 13 goals on the weekend for god sake.

Clark, Howe, and Garland.. Throw in Cook and Jurrah ( who knows ) and im not sure where any need is for someone like Cloke, really, i dont. Theres half a dozen blokes who can easily slot'em on their day . Again..the problems not the sharp end, this will become quite potent, once its fed well.

We are not in the right part of the cycle to go for a Cloke, a club like Carlton if they could afford him are an ideal fit. We need to build from within and both Lucas Cook and Jai Sheahan are in the system, Jai is being played down back at the moment but was a KPF at the Falcons. I really believe in the Geelong model of building your own with the odd nudge, Ottens for them Clark for us. I'm also old enough to remember Templeton, Moore, Tilbrook etc waiting for the messiah, all the eggs in the one basket whatever you choose to call it football is a team game. Build a strong list not blow it all on one player.

I would have jumped at Travis Cloke 12 months ago, and paid him what Mitch Clark is getting. But Mitch Clark has been a perfect match. I agree with poster above about Lucas Cook - he will be in ouir side next year and you watch his one-grab marking ability. Travis Cloke is only worth $620K - $640K in my opinion but our need of him has passed.

I hope Cameron Schwab has contacted the AFL by phone today to complain about the fixture. We have only played Essendon once a year for the last 3 years. The AFL have cost us 4 points a year!!!!!!

As the team gets more used to the game plan and it becomes instinctive then their confidence will grow, it's just a matter of nailing the basics. The offensive part will come later, and when it comes they'll score more heavily. Yes it's frustrating now but the pay off in the future will be worth it.

I agree, yes in the conditions and circumstances it was good, but if Essendon converted more of their easy opportunities it could have been very different. The forward line is still a worry (too many player still fly for the same ball), the positive is that Neeld is at least trying new things such as Garland forward. Neeld also made the comment at quarter time that the forward structure was falling down and that without players in the forward line, it is hard to get the ball in there, this is the best thing I have heard a Melbourne coach say in years. On a side note, another positive for me was seeing Garland run straight at the ball carrier, not to a pocket. I don't think I've seen a Melbourne player do that since Neitz.

He's headed for a northern suburbs club where he can enjoy the local pasta according to my mail. Big offer, can't refuse that blows all offers out of the water. Don't know how they do it but they always manage to fit players in their salary cap.

Yeah , I'm in two minds - we need him but at what price ? We've got young blokes that could develop into key forwards - McDonald , Cook etc but Travis would add wins to our team straight away . If the club did get him I think we'd all get used to it rather quickly 'GTG' . Much like our attitude when we acquired Clark .

Heading back to celebrate/thank/congratulate the other coaches I thought was brilliant. He knows how hard, how much scrutiny all of the footy dept has been under, let alone himself, and for Neeld to not take the limelight himself but to share with the coaching group I thought was outstanding.

Each to their own, but I see a big difference in rolling over and getting pumped by 100 points to battling bravely all day and being out classed by a strong opponent by a couple of goals. Especially given our current position.

the main point for me is that Hurley is supposedly some spearhead goal-machine, but look at the stats, his side is 8-2, with an average wining margin of 6 goals and the bloke has kicked one goal a week, and has less than 14 possessions on average. That's 10 goals out of 149. Nate Jones has kicked the same amount! Watts on the other hand is in a really battling side and performing way better. Also he is a year younger which has obvious impacts on the physical comparison.

Grimes has always been a mid, but we have needed him down back, as said above, if his body holds iup he will play mid.

Every time the bombers missed a shot at goal.

Ok last week i said we would beat essendon before the game and we won and this week im very sure the melbourne football club will take collingwood down. The dee's by 17 points. The boy's will be hungry for that feeling again and Mark neeld will take melbourne to there 2nd win 100% WE WILL WIN.

i dont think the term 'cakewalk' is running through ANYONE'S mind. I am totally prepared for us to be blown away in the first 20 minutes with or without Pendlebury. I just pray to the Lord (Howe) that theyve learnt a valuable lesson in how good they can be when all 22 give 4 quarters of pure effort, and if they do, perhaps Pendles not being there to rack up 35 touches might get us over the line. So i'll drink to his exclusion.

Mark Fraser has now tried three football related occupations and failed at all of them! He'll probably be made CEO of the AFL next year and announce an expansion into Wollongong!

Just great! Didn't really give this the thought it deserved - Neeld might have been short of defenders, but he chose (I know, maybe a forced choice) to leave Watts on Watson - and he Watts did ok - quite significant I reckon... Just brilliant disposal too - the best in our team. I just have to buy a ticket on the reality bus now - it's so interesting to see D'Land in this mood - no calls to sack anyone! lovely!

I disagree with a few of your points, footy is usually won through defense, hawthorn, collingwood, Geelong, stkilda, 4 teams played in grandfinals, hawthorn clarkos cluster was a defensive set up, collingwood press, Geelong are near impossible to score against, and stkilda were the team with the least points against. Midfield does play apart but footy is won through the backline. Midfield is next and then forwards, the forward half is the easiest half of the field to play as you have to present rather than stop. The ball is coming to you not your opponent, and when you have players like pendlebury, hodge, dal santo, ablett kicking the ball to you it makes life pretty easy! It doesn't mean that the most exciting players are up front and they definitely get recognition, but other that north with Wayne Carey I don't really think many teams won grandfinals on the back of a forward.

This whole situation is in bad need of clariication It seems to me the following is true 1. At least part of the ball was over the line (inconclusive from cameras if all of the ball was) 2. Essendon player touched a part of the ball already over the line i.e. his touch was behind the line. Q. what is the "line". Is it the line between the post measured from front of posts inc padding, or the back of posts inc padding or a mid line. A. Pretty sure it is the line at back of posts inc padding. So all of ball must be past this back line? Note thickness of post plus padding is at least 50+% of ball lengthwise and 90+% of ball width wise What I find contentious is that the touch was to a part of the ball behind the line. I don't know what the rule is here but I think the touch should only count if the touch is forward of the line (remebering the line is at the back of the post). It doesn't seem right to me that a goal is disallowed when a player touches a part of the ball already over the line. If the Essendon player had marked the ball (cleanly) would it have been a mark even though all ball contact was behind the line?

Michael Long, 2000 GF: Get stuffed. Bad acts are remembered for a long time, and ongoing payback is so swweeeeeeeett.

I've been saying it since 2007.

Good to see Lingy go to Jack at the end of the game. Some instant recognition for the kid. I thought he was really good at controlling the tempo of the game early on when Essendon tried to pick up the pace and create turn overs. Jack is going to be one of the most highly regarded players in the league in 3-4 years. Let's not compare him to anyone but instead appreciate him for what he is.

“Everyone is dancing around the issues - the whole football world - but I think someone just has to come out and say SEN and FoxFooty have made a massive error as media organisations, appointing failed Richmond Assistant Coach David King as a a footy expert,” Demoniac said on the Demonland forum..

Mark Stevens on TripleMMM was saying before the game how Melbourne supporters should be on the verge of microwaving their memberships, and that we didn't have a chance against GWS. It's only one win, but it was against the odds and against quality opposition - stick that in your pipe Stevo, you sensationalist tabloid [censored].

My favorite on Bomberblitz is the picture of the Essendon club tie accompanied by the words, "Take care, severe choking hazard".