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You need one very strong character to set the tone. I believe our new coach is doing that. Neil Craig in his mentoring role will be invaluable. Don McLardy is a Melbourne man and is measured in his actions. He will be a great President for this club. Cam Schwab is talking the talk but his words are carrying little weight because of the various issues we've been confronted with recently. Along with the new Captains, these key figures are going to re-brand the MFC. That brand is going to portray a new culture. Neeld has said he only gets one shot at this and I have a belief that he is goiing to pour his heart and soul into his efforts. As supporters, we can't ask for much more than that from a new senior coach. MFC has been too full of soft, forgiving types for too long. Time for some uncompromising directives that will prove to be the catalyst in years to come.

Neeld is the solution. Of that, I am absolutely convinced. I'm just relieved we managed to land him before he realised how ordinary our list actually is. My view about Neeld is based on his actions and insights thus far. In short, he has quickly identified the problems and has already taken steps to deal with them effectively. Actions (game plan) recognised Bailey's game plan, whilst attractive to some supporters (despite resulting in an incredibly poor win-loss ratio over 4 years), would not consistently win us games against good opposition, particularly in finals - sought to implement a new, effective game plan that, once properly understood and executed by the players (which, clearly, it is not yet), should help us win big games (recruiting) quickly worked out that our recruiting has not been very good, and that it has been at odds with developments/changes in the game - looking at the respective midfields over the first few rounds (Lions, Eagles, Tigers v MFC) has said it all - he stepped in to demand mature, hard bodies in the 2011 national and rookie drafts (despite our recruiter saying he had identified various other players), he moved heaven and earth to land Mitch Clark, the club parted ways with Barry Prendergast, and he has seemingly tried to land Collingwood's national recruiter, Jason Taylor, in the meantime (leadership) - identified a leadership vacuum at the club - embarked on a rigorous selection program for the leadership group - canned most of 2011's leadership group, and promoted young players who are the future of this club (whilst acknowledging they are indeed young and have a lot to learn). Brave decision - will pay dividends in the future (list development) - recognised that we needed to be elite in the fitness department - convinced Dave Misson to join us - obviously had a hand in convincing Neil Craig to join us too. We now have an elite fitness and development staff and program - this will take time to bear fruit though - more than three AFL games, in fact more than one season Common misconceptions IMO - some here are saying Neeld should modify his game plan to suit the skills of the current player group, even though every expert seems to suggest that the old game plan could not consistently win big games (despite, at times, being pretty to watch) - these same posters have stated previously that, unlike the Swans and North who refuse to bottom out so as to maintain an underlying competitiveness every season, in being patient and selecting talented kids over recycled players we will be able to compile a premiership list rather than a list that, whilst competitive, will only ever be a top 6 list (ie, pick an 18 year old at pick 39 instead of trading pick 39 for Josh Kennedy, pick Luke Tapscott with pick 18 rather than Luke Ball, etc) Here's the rub though. 1. A good list involves a blend of older and younger players, not just plugging 50 games into kids only. Lists are a continuum - there's never an end point, unless of course the club folds. 2. Simply implementing a defective game plan just to suit a weak player group won't win us a flag - it will only superficially make us more competitive in the very short term. My take out Neeld needs time to implement proper structures, identify and recruit better players, and introduce an elite fitness program. He's doing all of these things. But it will take TIME. It's not his fault we've had to endure a terribly long, horribly bad, rebuild over many years which hasn't got us to where it should have. It is the players who need to adapt to a modern, effective game plan - if they can't, they'll be playing elsewhere next year. There's absolutely no use in doing it the other way around - why try and nail a game plan that won't take us deep into the finals even if it will win us the odd game during the year against a bottom 4 side?! In short, I'm glad Neeld's recognised this and is not burying his head in the sand, like some others here. He's taking steps to fix it. Actively. And he needs our support. He's got mine. Give him yours.

Neeld is a rookie coach and like all new coaches (and old for that matter), he will make mistakes on every level including game plan and player management. He is working with poorly developed players, players who have often been universally seen as the best talent in the country on draft day, but have not turned into AFL standard players. The players are damaged and shell shocked. Whatever confidence they might have before a game will dissapate when the going gets tough. It will take time to change all that around - experience will reduce coach error, time and better coaching will help development and most (but not all) of the players will regain their feet (confidence). The pre-season training reports mislead us to some degree about where the team was at, but I think it showed where we are going. The journey is just going to take longer than we hoped.

Read the following slowly, carefully and take time to think about it. Frank Costa became President of Geelong in 1998. Brian Cook became CEO in 1999. Mark Thompson became coach in 2000. Players such as Ling, Bartel, Chapman, Ablett, Scarlett, Harley, Corey, Enright, Milburn and Kelly were at the club by 2002. After 5 rounds in 2007 they were 10th after 2 wins and 3 losses. Following the round 5 loss Paul Chapman publicly questioned the club's culture. He criticised the lack of team mentality with many of his fellow players. Mark Thompson followed with a similarly blunt assessment. By 2007 Costa was in his 10th year as President, Cook in his 9th year as CEO and Thompson in his 8th year as coach, yet the culture at the club was considered poor by the players and coaching group alike. So I ask you 'deluded', how important were the President, Ceo, and Coach in determining the club's culture ? No doubt they have a role, but it's the players who determine the culture and more specifically it's your senior players. Following some brutally honest meetings, reflections and soul searching, together with the guidance of the Leading Teams program, and Garry Ablett being challenged by his teammates to train and work harder, the players embarked upon some rigourous performance standards and accountability. Everyone at Geelong knows that the turn around in the club's culture was player driven. It wasn't the CEO, President, Coach, or Auntie May down the road. But I know that some still won't get it.

I glean my conclusions based on common sense and the information before me. I disagree with plenty of ex-players/coaches views on lots of things. Paul Roos' comments on Nathan Jones and Brad Miller last year come to mind. But I don't dismiss them out of hand either. It's fair to say that I store more value in their utterings than yours. After considering the comments of people that have been immersed in successful clubs and looking at sides like Sydney that had renowned leadership groups and club culture their comments made perfect sense. And if something makes sense I start listening. Leadership groups change over time, but it will often be slowly. A junior member of a leadership group that has had years of Kirk/Bolton leading the way will in time also display the same characteristics and share those values and teachings to the next generation of leaders. In time Dan Hannebery will join the leadership group and continue the legacy left by others. That's how you get a strong culture. I read on this thread by Who that it's the members that create a club's culture. What complete and utter rot. The members would have the least input into club culture. The day you understand that it's the senior players and leadership group that determine a club's culture is the day you'll understand the game a lot better. I won't be holding my breath.

I first started following the Dees in the early 80's when we were horrible. Not one friend at school barracked for the Dees. They were indeed character building days. The sweetest things was '87. It was almost like all the hard yards made me feel like I had some form of ownership when we came good. I hear everything everyone else has said to here and I hate where we are at as a club right now. It really depresses me. As horrible as Sat was, for me there was a silver lining. I went to the 1st half solo and as a young father was enjoying just being back at the G. I promised I'd take my 3yo daughter, so went home at half tie to pick her up post nap. Her mum is a cat and has in no subtle way tried to influence her. Anyway, I put our little girl in the car and she cried cause I'd forgotten her Dees jumper - I hadn't actually, I'd snuck it in her bag! We got to the ground to see the tail end of the 9 goal run, but she still loved it. I told her we were no good, but somehow she just had a thing for the Dees. I almost cried. She sat there so proudly with her Jack Watts badge - and for all the criticsm he cops here, she said he looked happy in his picture, so loves him, so cut the bloke some slack! He might be the one thing keeping some kids in the game! We've got to get someone to right a ripping little kids book about a little Demon so parents like me can read it at night - get the hearts and minds early. That said, i don't discount how hard it is for many little tackers who might have a bit of red and blue blood in the veins. Just keep telling them how sweat it will be when we're good!

I feel pretty much the same, I left before 3 quarter time on Saturday, the first time ever, I just couldn't be bothered anymore I felt totally disassociated from the game. I think I've just had enough and I don't know if I really want to go anymore. I have a couple of lunches to go to and if it wasn't for them I doubt I'd go again this year. I can't read the Club website anymore because it's just the same old, same old. I have read about a quarter of the posts on here and get started on a thread then lose interest and move on. It's quite depressing football has been a huge part of my life and all of a sudden it just seems pointless.

We're on the right track then, first part of the journey completed with honours.

What about Yakult? Worth a try?

I believe BP saw the writing on the wall and left. Either way it does not really matter, big mistakes occurred in BP reign. Mis reading talent when he had the cream of the cake at his disposal, and failing to be elite in his processes and not interviewing top talent (Martin). His agenda was to recruit Scully and Trengove and he didn't show due diligence in his role. What upsets me more was BP's supervisor did not either know that BP's processes were poor or didnt care. It showsthe MFC were less than professional in recruitment. I love my club, but I think I have little respect for it. That's why I doubt it's ability to win a premiership and think Neelds obvious attempt to make changes are too big even for him. Why is it that Martin and Reivolt can improve in a team without an elite mid to look up to, and a weak football dept? Yet our talented youngsters stagnate with the same constraints?

It's sad that having Green out for 4 weeks doesn't at all hurt the senior side. Haven't said that since before 2000! What we really need is a fit and firing Sylvia, Moloney and Jurrah back in the team asap

Futile response. With respect Tony, almost every comment you make in regard to what Neeld and co are doing after only 3 rounds is the main problem with supporters and club culture. You don't want to see change and when it's forced upon the club and the outcomes are shitty then there's the problem. New coach knows nothing! We are insipid. Back to the good old days of doing the same stuff and expecting a better result!! Give the bloke a chance. FFS.

I guess there must be differences across different club websites OD. But the point I'm making is that the info spouted in the article is incongruent with that job he's got at the Blues. What's more it's a clear step down from being national recruiting manager at Melbourne. So ... why is the article written in that way? Because it is stage managed to save face for all concerned. People should try to view most of what emanates out of clubs through the media with this lens. And it should be an unbiased lens that critically analyses information and isn't swayed by allegiances to club colours.

Why do you, Rhino and others take everything at such face value? There's "gossip" and then there's having the nous to read between the lines we're drip-fed in the media. Surely you must be aware that clubs 'spin' information to headline starved journos. Here's the article from the Hun on Jan 16 stating that Prendergast "quit" Melbourne to "pursue a coaching career" at Carlton. Really?? As an "opposition analyst"? I would have thought a good way to prepare for a coaching career is actually, you know ... to coach. http://www.heraldsun...f-1226244554306 Yet on the Carlton Footy Club's website (look down towards the bottom) he's not even named on the extended list of the club's football department. http://www.carltonfc...36/default.aspx Now, ask yourself what really happened. Spin.

People should be able to buy all clothes without logos. I don't want to have to pay to be a walking billboard. It should be the other way around. If I'm advertising Nike clothing, I should get a discount on my merchandise.

we missed some good picks in recent drafts...before they got drafted...i was expecting us to go for Vardy, Talia, Atley and Darling

Building a long-term program need not come at the expense of insipid football.

I didn't have any problems with how both Grimes incidents were handled I don't think Jackson did anything wrong Grimes should know the sling tackle rule well, esp after Trengove I think Grimes also knew he was over the boundary and should have 'pulled' the tackle in both cases I think Grimes was frustrated at the teams performance and was trying as captain to make a physical statement. He just went too far In the end it was just another example of lack of discipline in giving away unnecessary frees (and in this case suspension)

Robbie, I seriously don't know if you're taking the pi$$ with this post or not.

Broadmeadows

If I read you correctly, and that is increasingly becoming difficult, you are agreeing with me about the culture being handed down from those already at the club. So why call it rubbish? Unless of course you are tying other aspects of the club to onfield expectations? In which case I think you're misguided. Ok, this is misguided. The members are the reason we are so pathetic, lazy, timid, and, at times, unprofessional and insolent on the field? I am not taking the blame for our pathetic senior players whose sulking, laziness and lack of committment this year only validates the decision by Neeld to demote the lot of them. Right now our team relies on the good performance of damaged goods 25 years and older - and until others take over - we are going to struggle. I am hoping we have a few games where those young leaders show themselves to be worthy of their position and begin the changing of the guard in the expectations, committment, and ruthlessness of the team. It's up to them, not rpfc. Alas, I am not THAT powerful...

I really cant see how much can change wholesale from week to week. Something as perillous as the Titaninc takes time to turn. For all intents and purposes this season is gone from the perspective of thinking we will play much constructive and competitive football, at least in teh first half of the year, let alone finals . Strike a line through 2012, its wrtitten off , already. Where we can only reasonably expcet to measure any progress will be at seasons end and after we see our revised list after draft, trade and cullings. Neeld obviously hasnt got sufficient cattle not the spread of quality therin to make any substantial gains in the short term. Its a damining testiminy to the failure of the last 5 years of opportunities. My only interest now for 2012 is to see how the WALk of Neeld impacts ( if at all, and hopefully does) on this team. I reiterate my previous comment... all talk out of this club presently is worth nada. Go Dees, Go Neeld, you certainly have your work cut out for you. How many times do we have to go through this crap before we actually wind up with a team who CAN play football ??

This goes right back to the way we trained under Bailey. Several people who frequently attend training made note of incidents where assistants from other teams were watching and laughing with each other over our methods. I noted in several posts that it was like watching you local amateur team training. Lots of yelling, good-natured ribbing etc. Very little precision or professionalism displayed. I said at the time that it appeared to me that the coaching staff simply didn't understand how unprofessional the whole outfit really was, hard as that is to imagine in this day of spying on other teams and the amount of information available. What Neeld faces with our club is the fact that most of the list has never had to operate in a truly professional environment before. They have never been held to the standards we would expect. They have never been drilled to the level we would expect. In most cases they never even realised that they weren't doing the same level of work as their competitors. Only the seniormost of our players have been in a truly successful side. Only Green has played in a grand final, and that was at the very beginning of his career. This is what Neeld is beginning from scratch. He's having to teach the whole club what it means to be a professional outfit. Bear in mind that he has come from a team that was in the top few for out and out professionalism in the league. Collingwood don't necessarily have the raw talent of a lot of other sides, but they always knew exactly what they were doing on the field, and you could see that certainty in their play. If he can teach our list how to function like that then we will be unstoppable.

Thats the spirit waikakumukow. Smash the little buggers over the head until they agree to stay melbourne supporters! A little bit harder than that I'm afraid. Perhaps a little more subtlety might work. I tell my little guys that they are allowed to barrack for any team but if it is not the dees they cannot sleep under my roof. They look at me like i have lost it but so far, so good! As a few people have mentioned it will help build far more resilience in them - not everyone gets a star! Aometimes kids do identify more with a player than a team. Last year one of the like aaron as he was little and fast just like me. Clearly i have not encouraged it thid year! So i am trying to work out who to focus on this year. Any suggestions?

A. No he wasnt. Finished 10th in the B&F while playing 19 games. Was crud. B. No he would be fighting with Magner. Has not been one of our best for six years C Unfortunately doing wheelies,speed fines and being publicly drunk does not cut it D. Paul Johnson won the Liston playing less games. And i dont want him. Rather have Simon Godfrey. And I dont want him either. Agree. And given Richmond had 65 inside 50s and monstered us in the clearances, Miller with 2 gimmes out of 3 goals hardly impressed why would should have kept him.

That's why I would seriously get him to sit out the U18 champs, not attend draft combine. Let's make it impossible for Clubs below us to consider him, similar to the was West Coast are rumoured to have handled Darling. Give the other pricks nothing, it's time we manipulate things to favour ourselves rather than tanking. Try and throw Emma Quayle off the scent!

Am I embarrassed? NO Am I ashamed? NO Am I disappointed? YES Am I angry? YES Today I went out a put some MORE demons stickers on my car. Tomorrow I will get my grandson some new demons paraphenalia. Just HTFU princesses and just go and do something to make you feel GOOD about the demons The MFC are 'family' and you NEVER give up on family Jimmy didn't so why should you or yours? 5c worth

Well, in actual fact we HAVE seen it. MFCSS does not necessarily only manifest itself when we are traveling better than expected; rather, it can also appear when we are getting our pants lowered, but the form it takes is that of ridiculous optimism... that is, a few days after a 108 point loss to Wet Toast we were going to walk all over the Toigs. Now, after a football lesson from the Toigs, people are already spouting about how we are going to walk all over the Doggies.

I can think of an F word to fit in there.

Wow...just watched the MRP video. I'd have to say that while I'm upset with the Grimes suspension, it is understandable. The Jones fine on the other hand...

Consider the following We did not set the world on fire without him He is a past Captain He is in his final year It is the Stynes memorial match, he knew big Jim well Brad has given good service to the MFC over a long period It is not as though he is keeping a good junior out of a game He will pay on Saturday because the MFC will not make the same mistake they made with Junior.

OMG....is this a serious post or sarcasm??????

Your "culture" is not just one component of your club - its your complete club. Players come & go, coaches come & go, administrators come and go, board members come & go - but we have one solid component (ironically for us many sound like they are heading for the exit too). You build your culture from the ground up - what happens on the ground is only a reflection of what is happening off the ground. Any club is only as good as it members.

But who do you think sets the tone? It's the seniors- they set it through their elite compliance, elite work ethic, elite preperation (thanks mcqueen) and the rest of the team follows their lead because at the end of the day it's the players that battle together every weekend. They are the comrades in the trenches- coaches and support staff whilst integral to a degreee do not have the same influence on the players as their peers do. Culture isn't in the wall paper or in the training facilities, it's in the attitude of the playing group and the seniors are the trend setters, and they instill these traits on the youngsters and so continues the culture circle. Look at our seniors if you need an example. We have sooks who aren't prepared to put in on the field, like to have a drink on the weekend and crash cars and do runners. Great role models to set a great culture. The rot always starts at the head, and the playing group is the fish!

We have a very good midfielder currently on our injured list whom will be a beauty-his name is Taggart . He'll play in the Casey team in a few weeks, break into our senior team, and you will see a megastar in the making of a Dangerfield.

All the people who would normally be flinging that label around are too busy screaming about the fact that the sky is falling.

Maybe I'm just not as emotionally invested as some of you, but I do find some of the drama entertaining. I'm not at all bothered by the prospect of finishing right down the table, although I know that it will hurt us in many ways. I would love to watch us play some decent footy, and I will no doubt get upset on gamedays when we play badly, but I get what's going on right now and I think we'll be ok in the long run. The premiership in 2013 might be a bit of a stretch, but we'll live. All things considered, given the situation with compo picks, I think there are worse things than finishing at the bottom of the ladder again.

Horse's what? Your hors did you say? Well then, hmmn, Mark Neeld rings Micky M frequently to ask about some tough inhouse questions even he's unsure of... Micky comes out to state that the clubs about "anything BUT Football", I can assure You".... and he's right. "Why don't experienced players ever want to come to Melbourne, I remember hearing people say, when we wanted to recruit some experienced players to our club??? Guess why we can usually only get the has beens. Why do opposition players always love to play against the Dees? Not so sore. Why do young players traditionally get a start against US most often? Ease into AFL... We've been paying for 'not enough', for too long, & have received 'Not Enough'. Time for change.

I am pretty certain syndrome sufferers didn't think we were going to be this bad... Anyway, for the syndrome to kick in we would have to have a modicum of success to question and wonder when it will leave. There is nothing to be paranoid about at the moment - nothing is going right.

There is a major problem with the MRP. In this instance, and in pretty much every decision they made today, their decision was made based in part (or fully) upon the impact to the victim. This is not how it should be done. The act which the AFL is trying to outlaw is the sling tackle. It should not matter if a player is injured or not as a result of being tackled. If Jackson had gotten up and walked away completely uninjured, then the MRP would probably have let Grimes off the hook. But this doesn't do the job that needs to be done (let's ignore the separate issue of whether we want the sling tackle in or out of the game). If someone commits an offence, be it a sling tackle, a bump, or a strike, they should be noted as having done it, but then their penalty should be assessed based on how severely they did it. Your guilt or innocence should not be determined by the impact to the person. Thus Ivan Maric should at the very least have been found guilty of striking (because that's exactly what he did), but his penalty should have been weighted based on how severely he hit McKenzie (which wasn't very severely at all). I don't like the MRP saying 'well, Jackson was injured, so it therefore means Grimes should be suspended'. You can tackle someone perfectly legally and they can do their knee in the process, but no one is going to call for you to be suspended. That's because it's not the consequence, but the action, which we care about. Rant over.

I'm not reading anything into any comments by Neeld from now until when he retires. After the first conference and On The Couch appearance I think he's either been told he has to pull his head in or realised it himself. I don't think thats a bad thing as long as these issues are being addressed behind closed doors. You don't air you dirty laundry in public.

Viney was reported to have signs of OP last year and the club would manage his load - put him out in the paddock and create doubt in the minds of any potential suitors. We need to be ruthless.

Josh Kennedy was pick 4 in the 2005 draft, a KPF with 1 year in the system. He was hardly "a bit of extra stuff". Sorry Billy but there is no way in hell you'll get a player of the calibre of the names you mentioned with just a pick 3, throw in Watts or Trengove and you might be a chance. Maybe 3, 12 and player like Strauss or Howe would get it done, maybe not. Without a marked improvement onfield we have zero chance of attracting anyone anyway imo.

Admit to the mistakes made all around, too much management speak, losing leaders too early, devaluing our olders players, stop sulking, players who have talent but dont use either by being lazy or not committed enough, etc and then insist on people correcting their mistakes (Neeld included). Jimmy did it after the Prelim Final, Watts has stepped up and it appears Davey has as well. I can name about at least half the team who have more raw talent than Jones but dont learn, put in 150% and correct the way he has year on year. The guy cops it on the chin and steps up to try just a bit harder week in and out because he loves his footy, the club and wants to win for the team. I think malthouse is right about our footy culture and we need to stop the rot. I am sick of spoiling my weekend watching the poor efforts we serve up.

I don't value Malthouse's comments at all. Example 1: On Channel 7 GameDay yesterday he was asked a simple question by John Anderson "Fletcher or Scarlett". He answered "Fletcher". Just one hour later on 3AW he said Scarlett was the best full back he'd ever seen. One hour later he said Silvagni was the best full back he'd ever seen. Example 2: On 3AW yesterday he was asked to comment on Collingwood's situation. He said he's not in a position to know because he no longer works there. And he's probably right. So why would he have any credibility about comments he makes about Melbourne?

How depressing 3 rounds in and all we have to look forward to is the draft

!!!! Ok then. Not sure what that makes the other 35K or so members, plus non-members etc. etc. What we have on Demonland is a self-selected group who choose to manifest their support for a football club on an internet forum, nothing more. And people talk about the players having big heads.

If our senior players were playing well let alone on the field do you think it would be this bad. You think is is Neeld that has made us this bad in one off season? What about Having Moloney and Sylvia back in the mids playing well, what about Jurrah up there kicking 3 a game, what if Green played anywhere close to his ability, what if Davey played well. Stef Martins gone missing. Scully is gone. Gys injured, Tappy missed nearly a full pre season, Grimes needs games. Howe has played 16 games and was best on field(2 goals 24 possies) Magner has played 3 games and was best on ground for the first 2. Coach looks another Magner type and Jack Viney is just around the corner, not to mention our Scully compo picks and the high picks we will get from this pus of a year. I also hate hearing excuses, but there are all these things going against Neeld. Surely can only improve. I know we have all been waiting for so long, but we need to stick it out with Neeld and give him a chance with a full side. Last thing we want to do is continue to chance coaches every 2-3 years like Richmond for the past 30 years. Hang in there fellow Dees, I know it hurts and to ask us all to wait through another building phase seems like a bad joke, but I'm confident the direction has changed for the better. Just need MORE patience.

Was far from our worst today. Gave some run, made a few errors but give him a few games before writing him off this year. Just an easy target for the keyboard heros.