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Everyone keeps saying this... West Coast had basically the same list in 2011 as it did in 2010. It's called Player Development and new structures. Just because we have the same players doesn't mean we should accept the same result. They added a few pieces most notably Jack Darling and players came on like Butler, Masten & Nicoski. We added Clark and are hoping players like Tapscott, Strauss, Bennell, Blease, Morton, Petterd, Watts all move along with development. Not to mention also adding Magner, Couch and Sellar. We have so much potential upside this year and not for a second am I expecting to finish 4th but the same list is absolutely no excuse.

The club puts players up to be interviewed and he is our most experianced player,who would you have speak to the press at this time of the year. Stupid post

One of few highlights of the loss was Mark Neeld's press conference. The days of delivering mediocre performances may not quite be over but I believe the days of our coach accepting mediocrity are well and truly over.

So much negativity about one pre-season game. Very, very hard to believe. I seriously think some of the contributors here need to take a deep breathe and just relax. Hawthorn are a very good side AND are up and running (unlike so many of the other fancied sides). We are 3 weeks into a new coaching panel with a rookie coach. The side selection and match ups SCREAMED education and experimentation. The players and coaching are still learning (and will continue the steep learning curve for the first half of the season). Next week is the dress rehearsal and some more can be taken out of that result, whatever it is. March 31st is opening night (18 days away) and it is then that we will really be able to how far we have come and how far we have to go. When we have our bye in Round 12, and have played 11 real, bonafide AFL Premiership Season games, that is when a considered and level headed judgement can be made about our list, gameplan, player developmet etc etc. Until then please stay away from sharp objects and dangerous heights.

Excellent, can't think of anything better to do on Friday night than listening to a really biased cover of a glorified training run against Port. So sad!

Hey Jack. The centre of Australia is a troubled space, now more so than ever in my time here. I dont want the broader issues and incidents I discuss in the following post to reflect on Liam and the incident that he has alleged to have been a part of. Nor do I wish to suppose to have any specific knowledge on the Yuendumu situation. But perhaps some of the following can provide some context for understanding the reported events on Wednesday night and the commentary that has flowed since. The incident earlier this week, allegedly involving possibly this countrys most famous indigenous person, seems to have (momentarily) thrust some attention upon the difficult lives of Aboriginal people in Central Australia. The popular media has suggested that this incident was cultural. It also seems to have been suggested that our inability to properly comprehend this incident stems from our disinterest and our collective failure to understand Aboriginal people and their culture. A part of this I agree with, I see something a little different however in how the incident itself has been reported and interpreted. This incident, as we know, was part of an ongoing feud. It has been suggested that those involved were part of a legitimate attempt at ritual retribution. I think it is important when interpreting the events of the week to have some historical understanding of payback and how it has evolved into what it is today. Historically payback in the Western Desert occasionally involved groups of males (ritual avengers) who sought out specific individuals deemed to have caused wrong to a family member of theirs. They were not random acts of violence. When the guilty party was located a confrontation, either by ambush or in special circumstances, a mutually organised event took place. In some instances during post-contact times payback evolved into a highly organised, strictly governed sequence of events (more like a performance or ceremony) that was minutely controlled by a group of senior men. The physical act, of the spearing in most instances, was always performed by the appropriate avenging family member who was either experienced in such acts or was closely instructed by the afore mentioned senior men. This was often to ensure the wound was not fatal and to satisfy those seeking retribution by way of the temporary affliction of pain and crippling upon the wrong-doer. I have witnessed a recent (8 years ago) version of such events. It was attended by the entire community, it occurred in the middle of the day and in a neutral part of the community. It all transpired under the close surveillance of an experienced team of members from the Northern Territory Police force. Medical staff from the local clinic were also on hand to tend to the resultant wounds after the procedure was complete. At no stage did this event stray from its intent. It saw a partial end to the ill feeling between the two families involved and the same process settled a number of other ongoing disputes. This is not to say however that the original act of violence or sorcery was forgotten or forgiven. Often the ramifications of such incidents last and manifest themselves in other ways. Such carefully organised events are unfortunately rare. Current acts of payback in the town camps of Alice Springs happens on an almost weekly basis. The disturbing, almost guaranteed ingredient these days however is of course alcohol. There has been a strong tendency, over a number of decades, to attempt to excuse pure drunken violence as cultural payback. It is problematic then when Wednesday nights incident, which it must be said, was typical of the norm in Central Australia, is reported, interpreted and then understood as some sort of traditional or culturally sanctioned right of passage. There is a vast irreconcilable difference between the strictly governed form of retribution described previously and the alcohol fueled free-for-all that is currently commonplace. Whilst I believe there needs to be an acknowledgement of Aboriginal law within Whitefella law, which I extend to include controlled retribution, I do not accept the oft presented and disturbingly popular consideration that the violence as it occurs almost nightly in Alice Springs is cultural. There must come a time when racial politics must step aside and yield to reason. Make no mistake, I believe Liam was/is highly obliged to play his role as a well regarded member of a family involved in a complex dispute. The words in the previous sentence may sound pithy, but the heavy expectation upon family in Central Australian indigenous culture is impossible to fathom from the outside, where I consider myself to sit. Liam is expected and obliged to express his feelings about the death of his kin. Violence, it is said, is an expression of feeling (this comes from an excellent book on a neighboring cultural group the Pintupi). Liam is obviously attempting not to shirk his responsibilities in two worlds with two differing peer groups. Because when its all over and he returns to the Western Desert with a premiership medallion around his neck, he must face his family and stand as the true Warlpiri man I expect he is. I try to remind myself that every football career is a relatively short one and that football is just a part of his life. This is a bitter pill to swallow if you are footy mad and not understanding of Liams extreme circumstance. None of this explains why he was at Little Sisters and he put himself in the circumstance he did. None of this excuses his actions. It is devastating and together we feel it. The one thing I take solace in though is Liam himself. Some thought Rudeboys fantastic biography on Liam was premature and a few never bought into Brett Badgers assertion that for Liam the journey to game number 1 was greater than the journey to game 200. Ive met Liam a few times, but dont know him from a bar of soap. What I do know though is where he has come from, my wife grew up on a neighboring community Even if you saw it with you own eyes, you like me, would still fail to fathom it. The Liam Jurrah effect in Central Australia is palpable. Kids want to be him and wear our colours because he does. These kids have had a magnificent role model, which for me is what makes this week so difficult to swallow. Cars parade around the desert emblazoned in windscreen-wide Demons stickers. A relative of his I know well, whose name is spelt slightly differently due to a bureaucratic misspelling, desperately wants to change his name by deedpoll, so proud he is of his nephew Liam and his relationship to him. I suppose my motivation for writing this post is multi-pronged. I hope the complexity of Liams situation is a little more exposed and that understanding may come from it. I also want to respond to the concern some posters share about the circumstance of people in Central Australia. Because this is the guts of the pain and confusion we have felt this week. Liam has made a series of bad decisions to be in the position he is. But I encourage you all to stand by him and our proud club on our collective learning curve. When he returns to play the game he loves consider for a moment not just the journey Liam continues to travel upon, but the journey we, as his supporters, do as well. ---- Indigenous disadvantage in this country is a real thing. I cannot begin to discuss this issue here as it just doesnt feel right. But remember this; Liam comes from a chronically underfunded community where there is almost zero opportunities for long-term meaningful employment. His family have probably never had the opportunity to own their own home. The Fedral Governments Intervention saw all Aboriginal men throughout the Territory cast with the suspicion of being drunken pornographic obsessed pedophiles. Just look at the big signs as you enter any and ever Aboriginal community here. His families income is managed by the government who tell them where they can and cannot spend their money. Some non-indigenous people who live on Aboriginal communities and receive government assistance are exempt. Why? Because their not indigenous. How? The Howard government suspended the Racial Discrimination Act in this country. Rudd and Gillard have upheld this since. Imagine how you would feel. -------- Earlier this year a 9 year old girl hanged herself in her home community on the Anangu Pitjantjatjara Yankunytjatjara Lands in South Australia. 9 years old. Also in Central Australia, a coroner earlier this week described the body of a domestic violence victim as having injuries consistent with what one would expect if the body had fallen from an aircraft in flight. On Tuesday in Alice Springs a woman from a community 380kms west of Alice Springs had her throat slit. Her husband is being sought for questioning as the prime suspect in the case. But perhaps what has motivated me to share my thoughts with you today is what I woke to this morning. Just last night a dear old friend of mine was violently stabbed to death in a camp not far from Little Sisters. He too was from a remote community and was the victim of a family dispute fueled by drugs and alcohol. His own brother is wanted for questioning. His mother inconsolable, a family devastated. My concern, which I cannot answer, is why is this happening and why dont you as Australians know and hear about it like I do? --- For me Jack, Demonland (& Demonologys) proudest moment was when we bought his debut guernsey and gifted it to the community of Yuendumu. I am assured it does stand as the beacon we wanted it to be and always will. I know Liams Grandmothers acceptance of our gift was a proud moment for those present. It showed that people understood, even way back then, what a special person was in our midst. There have been questions asked during this last week of what one can do to understand, to help or assist. I might suggest some websites below of organisations that rely on the support of good people. Mt Theo http://www.mttheo.org/home/ Western Desert Nganampa Walytja Palyantjaku Tjutaku Aboriginal Corporation http://wdnwpt.org.au/ The Central Australian Aboriginal Alcohol Programs Unit http://www.caaapu.org.au/ The Ngaanyatjarra Pitjantjatjara Yankunytjatjara (NPY) Women's Council http://www.npywc.org.au/index.html Drug and Alcohol Services http://www.dasa.org.au/

WYL as I've said before my greatest joy as a Dees fan to date was Western Oval Round 22 1987 after copping crap in the school yard as the stupid Irish Kid who picked the Dees to follow, my team were finally in September. And yes I was gutted in 1988 & 2000, but I'm not a fairweather supporter clearly none of us born from the 60's onwards are, Premierships are hard to win You are impatient last week after beating the pies and through the whole preseason you and others were talking us up, now after last weeks defeat lets hang ourselves. I told you and many on here lessons were learnt last year but you all expect Neeld to flick the magical switch, get out some old footage of the Hawks 2002-2007 many a good kicking in that time but they stuck with Clarko now look at them. Saints & Doggies fans have been just as patient as we have. So take some deep breaths and by Round 12 if were still not meeting your expectations then both yourself and Old Dee can start pinging the coach and players

I'm going to add to this that Carlton have lost every game (including a thrashing from Brisbane), Geelong got thrashed by Richmond, Collingwood got killed by Adelaide, and almost beaten by GWS. NAB cup doesn't mean much and if anything it's good we took a big loss now rather than in the home/away season. Think of it as a reality check.

I'd be waiting for a couple of months of real game in the actual season before making any judgements on 2012. Thus far we have lost to GC, beat Brissie, beat Collingwood and lost to Hawthorn, while trying to bed down a new game plan, prepare for Rd 1 and blood inexperienced players (i.e. Troy Davis) . Would have expected to beat GC and lost to the Pies. Conclusion: data too small and inconsistent to draw any conclusions.

Maybe he was put up by the club because of his name and the color of the jumper he was wearing. Just maybe???

I reject that. Dane Swan didn't walk into Collingwood as effective as he is. He, and they, worked hard and improved his skills, and gave him a role that suited him. I think the lack of professionalism at the MFC over the years has kept some players from their optimum, and in that instance we were stopping a star player from possibly prospering.

Get a grip! He's been put out there by the cub. Would have thought anyone paying attention to current issues and media protocols would know this? He is still a senior player and he can actually speak, in fact spoke well today.

After decades of promises and false dawns I am now firmly in the "believe it when it happens" camp.

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/7415/newsid/124690/default.aspx I'll refer you to the description of his games in round 3, 10, 11. I saw him play on ABC tv twice and i thought he moved smoothly and spotted up players with good kicking skills very well. Particularly considering he's 196cm, stick thin and a teenager. Will people on demonland ever stop judging 196cm key forward teenagers until they hit 22 years old and 95+ kg? Probably not. But that doesn't mean that people who ignorantly write these teenagers off are correct. Lucas Cook will become a very good player imo. For the record, it is irrelevant whether Cook will be better than Darling. Darling was pick 26 (so clearly no club considered him close to the value of pick 12) and even if he has a better career over the course of 15 years at AFL level, which is far too early to tell, Darling will never play as a KPP. He's a mobile 190cm strong tackling half forward flanker.

OR the time to view how the club handles this issue Professionally handled, dealing calmly and realistically about the/our position can be reassuring for a potential sponsor. Publicity about the club can reflect the Brand of both club and sponsor. Authority Confidence Leadership can be displayed in many ways and without spinning it, can be emphasised for positive outcomes. EG The club expected with its list being developed that it would discover more about its players from the hard contest received with Hawthorn. The club has dealt with defeat for some time and is using that to spur on our taste for more victories. We will have some victories and some defeats but from all of this we will learn more about ourselves. We are using the NAb cup to complement our training programs and have tested some structures and strategies. The Jurrah story could also have many positive aspects displayed although like many I believe that extreme care should be taken I have said and pleased to repeat given further statements that I believe the club has handled the whole saga well. Thier actions reflect well on the club and should impress any potential sponsor,

Sabermetrics is great for baseball but can it translate to footy so easily? I don't think it can. Because it isn't as simple as 'needs' over 'best available' it's being able to have empirical eveidence backing a reason for a player to be recruited. The example in the film was On Base Percentage and they recruited players who excel at getting on base. We have KPIs and it isn't difficult to imagine clubs saying 'we need more contested possessions won so we should recruit heavy contested possie winners from the VFL' - I think that is what the MFC did with Magner and Couch... But baseball relies on a series of individual acts that can be measured, footy relies on a chain of events for players to be effective. ie. forwards rely on quality and quantity of delivery, backs rely on the opposite. Anyway, food for thought.

I do a little bit of coaching (school kids and senior women) and the one thing that I've discovered over the journey is how important 3 or 4 players can be. We can talk about structures and tactics and development and culture and go round and round and round. We can compare ourselves to other teams and compare our young players to others. Over the past three years (and arguably the last 40) it has been blatantly obvious that we've been 3 or 4 players short of a decent, competitive week in, week out team and these 3 or 4 have been experienced, hard-bodied leaders. Add Mitchell, Sewell, Hodge and Franklin to the Dees and our younger players would walk taller and play accordingly. Our midfield rotations would have genuine depth. Our lesser midfield lights would receive less tagging attention and our key forwards would get lesser defenders and our defenders would have more confidence to take the game on and support their team-mates. In short, pressure would be taken off the youngest third of our list to lead the rest. An example would be provided on and off the field to follow. We simply don't have that experienced core. The football department admitted as much when they appointed a 20 year old and a 22 year old as co-captains. The addition of Clark is bloody important. Couch and Magner will give us grunt and competition and depth but the reality is, we'll lack the midfield class until Gysberts, Strauss and Blease all mature (physically and mentally). For mine, Trengove must become elite and Grimes will need to stay relatively injury free. Add Viney and an experienced midfielder with our compo picks and the worm will start to turn quickly. If Jones continues to improve and Sylvia finally has the break out season we've all been waiting for then within 2 seasons we'll have the experienced, match-hardened engine room that we crave. A midfield group of Trengove, Gysberts, Jones, Grimes, Blease, Viney, Sylvia, McKenzie, Bail and let's say for the point of the exercise (Jack Redden/Patrick Dangerfield/Dion Prestia trade with compo picks). I'm not convinced that Moloney will be good enough in a couple of seasons and I'm also not giving up on Morton. If a Tynan or a Taggert or a 2012 draft pick can be added successfully to this group then we have the 12 that we'll need. We'll also have a good mix of experience. We know that our bookends are pretty good. It's all about the midfield. It looks like we've got the grunt - now we need to get the games into the above list and hope that the better kicks develop the engine and the attitude to compete consistently. We're 3 or 4 players away - the question is how many of them are already on our list?

Its taken me two days to come back to the site, like most of you I hated Saturday nights performance. I felt sick in my stomach. Nab cup or not, they hurt. Then I watched the Neeld presser and thank heavens he was feeling sick in the stomach as well. He hates losing and is not going to tolerate it; "my round one team is not the same as it was 7 days ago". Sylvia wouldn't be playing round 1 after his efforts. More importantly Neeld knows what is going on, missed tackles were the result of Technical (we went too high in the tackles) and attitudinal (not hard enough at the contest) issues. This guy is not going to leave anyone in the rooms wondering what he expects and how hard it will be to get a game. We failed in the middle with poor clearance work (we won clearances but our disposal was poor) and Neeld let Hale teach a young guy a lesson. Unlike others I think we do have the cattle its just they have some learning to do and he will kick their sorry arses until they have learnt the lesson. No one is guaranteed a game under this regime. More importantly he is not panicked by it and he believes he has the answer. We will know sometime in the second half of the year if our players are up to his challenge.

DB had a clear plan with his drafting requirements. He was looking for pace and good disposal. He was also planning for a long slow build, so we often went for bottom age players who were seen as having a lot of potential and met his criteria, but might take longer to develop. Thus we find ourselves with a raft of guys who look great when they can run free along the flanks, use their pace to burn off opponents and take their time to hit targets. When the opposition allowed us to do this (Sydney 2010 for instance), we looked golden. Unfortunately, too many sides figured out that we had nothing when it came to winning contested ball and simply refused to let our sleek running machines have those free possessions. Now we have Mark Neeld coming in and telling these guys that it's all very well being able to play a free-flowing attacking game, but they can only do that if they can get in there and win the ball for themselves. The question for these guys is whether they can learn to do the grunt work. If they can then our last five years worth of drafting will be fine, if not then we'll be trading them on and trying to get some decent hard players into the club.

Did we develop the players the best in the last 4 years? (I can answer this for you - NO) - Sorry your question is unanswerable its so subjective. Where do we draw the line 1,2,3 years, or is it over a whole career? Players are picked for multiple reasons & develop at different rates hitting different levels. You dont pick your way to success - You develop your way to success. Again the trap many average punters fall into is - an over-emphasis on early draft picks. Early draft picks only improve your probability not guarantee your success.

I expect Malthouse and Neeld would talk a lot. And, not unsurprisingly, Malthouse's views on Watts seem to mirror Neeld's initial impressions of him. And before everyone puts the knife into Malthouse, I understand he was very supportive of Mark Neeld in his application for the MFC gig and that he thought the Dees would be a great place for Neeld to end up. Personally, I'm strongly of the view that Mark Neeld is the best thing that's happened to the Dees for many years. And, at least in part, that is due to Mick Malthouse. So, he can keep tearing strips off us - our performances in recent years don't deserve anything better than that IMO. If we're going to succeed as a club, it's by facing facts - not by burying our head in the sand. On field, we've been soft - and this needs to change. Success won't otherwise come to us, and Malthouse simply seems to be pointing this out. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Mick would love to see the Dees flourish this year under Mark Neeld. And that's not going to happen without players like Jack Watts developing a killer focus and ambition on wanting to succeed.

The journalistic ethics (or lack thereof) employed by Eddie McGuire might have been questionable but he did conduct the interviews with Liam and his family and with Bruce and Rupert in a professional manner and made it clear that the facts of the case could not be discussed. This is in stark contrast to the Herald Sun treatment of the matter which represented an appalling disregard for the rights of the accused and the alleged victim.

Agree with the OP Got to say though, Sat morning with Pickers, Dr Turf and Hutchy is the best show on radio. Always have a laugh listening to them!

I have it on good authority that this will be our new mascot, following the announcement of Ireland being our major FOJ sponsor Edit: that is one creepy looking thing

Life is wonderful is it not Just noticed on the MFC website that a membership will get you into the game against Port for free. Gee we should all race over there to take advantage of that great offer. Not much money will be expended on that one!

That's a shame. I admire his pace and effort, and has a better football awareness (imo) than Bennell.

You change your mind like your undies WYL. It wasn't that long ago that you were spruiking about how this season is going to be so much improved and how you would be massively disappointed if we did not play a finals game this year! Now you're expectations have drifted out 3 years!!! Don't ask me to go and search your posts to prove this. Your enthusiasm has started to wane after a few NAB games. FFS.

So by your account PSD we have had 3- 4 good years under Swooper and say 5 years under ND So 9 good years out of 48 that means we have had 19% good years. We had one period between 1965 and the 1987 when we did not play finals at all, 23 years. So please lets not pretend that being a MFC supporter has been a bed of roses. We have had far more crappy seasons than good ones.

I think a lot of people are also forgetting 97-98 for Melbourne. When we achieved the exact same result that West Coast got last year with a similar list. 98 was also the year we began with a new coach. I don't think that will be replicated this year by the side but there is a bit too much unrealistic pessimism for my liking in this thread.

I think we have a bit with a lot of front end loaded contracts but really just ointing out despite what Demonland seems to want to portray not all doom and gloom with our club, you have to crawl before you can walk, big changes since the end of 2011 but will take time anyone who thinks otherwise will be disapointed for the first half of the season IMO

Yep , and here lies our biggest problem . Not enough "Laurie Fowler" types . We've got too many "outside" types on our list and Neeld needs to turn them around . He won't be able to turn all of them around , but if he has a success rate of 40% or better he really will be working wonders . It seems Neeld will prefer "grunt" types over "outside" types . So , we may have to get used to turning the ball over a bit more until we have more "grunt" types who can dispose of the ball in a more efficient way . Players who relish the front position could get favoured as well . And rightly so . It's early doors but I've a strong suspicion we'll be turning over quite a few players at seasons end . That doesn't mean we can't have a relatively good year and possibly play finals . It does mean , however , that we're a long way off being able to match it with the best sides . Another major issue is the kicking skills of quite a few of our players . You'd reckon with the abundance of coaches we now have , that kicking skills will be a priority . A transition year , by no means a lost year . Week to week is never more apt really . We need to find consistency of effort . Cheers

One would hope so DD, because having just watched part of last saturdays game, the years 2008-2011 look a total failure to me right now...& it hurts. I have watched Hawthorn treat us like dirt all my life, i am 48 & certain people on here tell me i am being impatient!! Hawthorn have won 9 Flags in that time....& i am impatient!!! Recruit some big ugly footballers Melbourne...Just Do it.

Now DL7 your talking common sense, although I agree I must also consider there seasoned players like Cox, Glass, Kerr, Lecras & Embley had big impacts as well as Nicoski & Lynch pulling seasons out of their a%#e

Can we stop this sh%t I certainly don't accept 120pt losses so don't put us all in the same basket, and whils we all want to go on about being let down for last 48 years and being down in the dumps, lets have a reality check. Whilst I have yet to see a Premiership lets not forget the seasons under Swooper where we were right up there, while Danners gave us a few good years although honestly apart from 98 we were never seriously in the hunt. Any uneducated person who jumped on to this site would think so who are MFC what have they had 48 wooden spoons in a row

Bobby, the reason why Geelong, Collingwood and Carlton aren't worried about the NAB Cup is because they are Top 4 sides who have to cattle to ensure they remain in that upper echelon. If Melbourne were in that upper echelon, I wouldn't care about the NAB Cup either, but the reality is, we are ordinary, coming off an ordinary year, and have had wholesale changes sweeo through the Club. Am I slashing my wrists? Absolutely not. Am I worried? I do have some concerns about how this season will play out. But regardless of the fact that we have a brand new coach, I still believe that starting our rebuild at 4 years ago that some progress should be obvious. 2012 will display if progress has been made.

Totally agree! Brad would not be fronting the press without MFC footy department either putting him forward or agreeing to a request. Ray B should be focusing criticism on the MFC. Seems to me the club is happy to put Brad forward when it suits and seems also he would be happy to take the heat to protect the younger guys including the co- captains BUT is a bit odd excluding him from any leadership role at the same time. Note Brad has only stated they are all behind and support LJ and in effect repeated Neld line that LJ will not be ready to play senior footy until seconf half of the season. Shouldn't be bagged for that

Please, oh please read and re-read this. We have a tough first 11 Rounds. Lets see where we're at come our bye in Round 12. At least then we'll have some real data to analyse.

In the game on the weekend we were beaten by a far superior side and that's fair enough, but the boys never stopped trying and that was a plus; we lost games last year after matching the opposition for a couple of quarters or so and then were over run and seemed to throw in the towell. I don't believe we threw in the towell on Saturday we continued to battle right to the end and that showed they at least they have some spirit. As I said in an earlier post we were under pressure 100% of the time and I can't remember where we had time to consider our options and plan our way forward. My main worry however was their total dominance of the centre and our refusal to put a player or two there to cut out the attacks they mounted through the centre corridor, it seemed that there was always three or four of their players hovering there unguarded.

No - but I did say that our days of playing mediocre football are not over. Nothing erases the pain of losing but I dont need my pain intensified and exacerbated by a coach (Danners) saying "we didnt come to play" or Bailey taking "positives" out of some the shellackings we had. What I do believe is that a different approach will be taken by Neeld to the "close enough good enough" attitude that some of players have had. The proof will be in the pudding.

I have been infuriated with our recruiting for 20 years. I've watched big bodied aggressive clubs smash us most of my life. I think the pennys finally dropped with Neeld as coach but our much of our list and top draft picks are comprised of skinny outside players that Bailey/Prendergast selected. Again we were beaten up by a big bodied aggresive club on the weekend.

The Jolly Green Giants?

I don't believe it has anything to do with 2 and 2 or 3 and 1 or if it was 10 and 3 ! From my understanding on what they've said is that you could kick goals out of your backside now and then, but if you cannot or are not capable to do the work required on the training track with the team, or follow basic instructions , or have a good understanding of what is required when the ball is coming out from a kick in after a behind to the opposition, lack leadership. Or run and harass as required for 20 mins non stop in a game by being accountable - you're unlikely to get a look in by recruiters. Because they are instructed to recruit conservatively and not take risks.

If you want to lay the blame with anyone it's with Eddie. He is the one who who knows the protocols. He is the one who did what he did for purely selfish (media) reasons. The other 2 blokes I continue to believe have nothing but Liam's interests at heart and because he is a Melbourne player the footy clubs interests are parallel. I think you should pull-up a little. As I indicated, the club needs to quickly sort it out.

Thanks...now i know why it is so wrong!!

So true, and that is a big problem. At Hawthorn a young player can come in and have Hodge, Sewell, Mitchel, Buddy there to guide their progress, at Melbourne they are on their own. The coaches are going to have to be the ones to turn it around along with the young leadership group, they are going to have to stand up.

I have brainwashed the hell out of them. Sometimes it did include fudging the scores a little bit when I would get home from the G. A 6 year old and a 2 year old don't really understand rebuilding phases and a developing list.

Mick Malthouse is right...that first 2 lines nail it. There’s not a lot wrong with Melbourne, except they have played without a modern game plan that resembles finals football. Their new coach Mark Neeld will kick their backsides raw. He’ll toughen them up, he’ll discipline them and he’ll have a game structure that is tried and proven.

You make very good sense RB. But please lets not lay it all at JW's feet. There are IMO a lot of players who have been found wanting year in year out. WE do not have enough of the right cattle. MN, MM cannot get blood from a stone That job is reserved for JC and he has not been seen a lot in the last 2000 years.

Outclassed, but expected. I was hoping to see it get within 10 goals. I thought Davey chased well early on...not so towards the end. Fitz needs a lot more time in Casey but he's a big man give him another 2-3 years before we judge. Some of the tap work wasnt too bad. Really happy that Neild kept Davis on Hale even though he was getting killed, some great lessons. Also great for Garland to have to play 2 different games (loose in first half and on Buddy in 2nd). Frawley is truly a great backman. Lots to work on but thats the NAB cup.

Bloody hell! Tappy looks completely different in this years jumper.