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Weird post. What, in your eyes, would've been a good effort then? The only alternatives I see are paying above what we thought was reasonable, or just not bothering at all - who's to say Adelaide/GC would've put in the offers they did unless there was some pressure coming from us? I'm really battling to see where Harrington and team went wrong here.

Maybe the MFC, the ones who are professional and do this for a living, just didn't think he was worth throwing everything at. I trust that they know whats best and what he is worth. A lot on here seem to watch some YouTube clips and get caught up in the media frenzy over a kid who still has a year before he can even play!!

If these deals are correct then GWS are not acting in good faith (yeah, we all know their record...). Adel - gets Crouch and Pick 14 GWS gets Pick 10 and Pick 20ish (comp) Melb - gets Crouch and Pick 25 (the one Collingwood gave them) GWS gets Pick 12 and Pick 12ish (comp) How the hell does the MFC get rolled on that? I call shenanigans! Seriously, though. I call BS.

Disagree Maurie. It seems that Crows give pick 10 and compo to our offer pick 12 and compo and they get pick 14 back and now want a listed player as well, when we asked for a pick back inside 25. If we gave pick 12 and compo and said you keep pick 14 from GC and give us your next pick after 15 say 25-30 that is far better for them. We obviously just went cold on Crouch or we are very set in our ways. Most on here wouldn't have blinked at 12 and compo let alone getting a pick back in return, so that is a long way off 12 and both compo picks. The Crows appear to have beaten us to Crouch by two spots better on the pick they gave but possibly GWS could have saved 11 spots on the pick they gave back. I don't understand that when they have pick 11 in between anyway. It does seem like they didn't want to deal with us. Maybe we walked away when they told us to.

If that happens.... I would love to see Adelaide screw GWS over and take O'Meara anyway...

is he bigger than you Ben?

Well that's a breakthrough. The AFL actually upholding the spirit and intent of the rules. Pity they didn't think of that before they allowed GWS to offer obscene amounts to 20 and 21 year old kids before luring them away from their original clubs which had no chance of matching those offers even if they had the inclination to do so. I've always maintained that the mini draft order should have been determined before trade week got under way. The situation now is that nothing much is going to be finalised until the mini draft order is determined tomorrow evening. After that we can expect a frenzy of activity from Friday through the weekend and until the closure on Monday. At least the AFL should be congratulated for recognising they were creating a monster and doing the right thing for once although I suspect it might be too late and the GWS is going to be problematic for a long time.

As in our recruiting network? Guys who work full time to be able to value the worth of prospective footballers? Yes I believe they have a pretty good idea of what those picks are worth. As opposed the all of us ignoramuses, who may have seen a game or two of under 18 footy this year but are really just throwing darts blindfolded.

That strengthens Bob's argument if anything.

The hypothetical money I saved by not overpaying for the house has meant that I am: a- saving money by renting, (ie, keep the picks) and b- using my money to go into other growth assets such as shares. (ie, use the picks in other trades or by selecting players with them). As I said, there's more than one way to skin a cat. I said that I would pay a very high price for O'Meara, but I am basing that off watching him play only twice and based on my own personal philosophies on what makes us a successful team. But you say that you'd 'use all the money in the bank', which involves our first picks plus the Scully compo. What about our second round pick? What about trading a good young player? Whether you realise it or not, you have placed a price on it that you would have bailed out after. The MFC have just set a different price to what you would have.

Unless the people who buy this house also want the house that you really want, and forcing them to buy this one at an inflated price then means you get your preferred house on the cheap......

You have several on the boil at once with the hope that at least one makes it. If both turn out well, you either find a way to accommodate both, or you trade off the one you want the least. Odds are that one of Cook or Fitzpatrick will bust - let's hope it's not both. Once you add in Lisle the odds of finding a player good enough for that position improve, especially since he's far enough developed to have a high degree of confidence that he'll get there. It's not unlike how we recruited the likes of Davis and Tom McDonald last year as likely KPDs, despite the fact that we're up to our eyeballs in that area. You always need multiple new players developing.

Imagine if we actually got one of those picks. RobbieF's response is either: a- we overpaid (after getting O'Meara) b- we got the dud one (after getting Crouch). You're stuck in the 70s when we sucked, RF. And you want to be there.

We put two first round picks on the line for a player who is younger than Jack Viney. That is far from cautious. We were beaten by a team who the 2nd earliest pick and a heap of compo picks they can throw away knowing that if they screw up the AFL will guide them out of it. I'm disappointed we didn't get him, but Tim Harrington aint to blame.

The way we played it was exactly the way we should have played it. It's the ONLY way of getting what you regard as value for money and / or not getting burned

Yes, a shocker, 37 goals to be 2nd highest at club and with most contested marks. Wish I could play that badly.

Why, you might think you know. But what you be saying if we had not made a play and discovered they offered less than we were prepared to offer. You would calling for his head and quite rightly so. This is an auction you have a limit and when that is exceeded you walk away. I have no problem with that.

This isnt an even playing field and we must be very mindful of not getting sucked in.

I am glad we went into the whole thing with a plan and stuck to it. Overpaying in an auction feels great until you have to pay the mortgage. Unless we can now attract a genuine star like Goddard we should be happy to be a bit player this year.

FFS if Adelaide get the pick they get it, we still hold the other picks. It is not a done deal yet this time yesterday the four way club deal was a supposed done deal. Sillvagni says it's almost done (maybe in hope Dees or soemone else will come back with better deal tomorrow). Grubby Allen is crafty and a master of gaetting clubs to pay overs or to eliminate each other. MFC don't pay overs the cards will start to fall now once mini draft picks are sorted. A lot has been on hold in the trade week over the first couple of days as usual, clubs feeling each other out. Hawks will now try and get an early pick from somewhere and have to give something to get it. As usual the last day or two of the trade period is hectic and trades come from nowhere.

What would you have given to beat GC or Adelaide?

In MFC i trust, more so now than before. Maybe were just a tad gun shy of throwing every thing at some kid ? Many in their rush to judgement might wel end up tripping over their exuberance. What do we really know ?? Ill tell you what...Sweet F All !! We only know what we can read and surmise and maybe the odd snippet of insider stuff. but overall its pure guesstimation. And then we hve those who actually know whats going on...ther called the Melbourne Football Club. Id back them ahead of anyone here, of course myself included. Get a grip people...sheesh !!

Still have the compo picks they exist they are real they are able to be traded going forward We can still make a play this or next year for a more ready made player or in the next 5 coming years There's a lot of hype surrounding O'Meara and Crouch but I'm yet to hear of either of them wining best on ground in a loosing team in a Grand Final. We have our own very special young talent on the way we can trade compo picks all is not lost we wouldn't want to pay overs when 2012 looks a bumper draft. Plus GWS are dicks who wants to deal with satan

As to first point what is wrong with the seller determining his price. Isn't that what usually happens? As to second point the compo picks were the pick after where you finished but we also had a mid ladder compo. Maybe GWS thought Crows would finish much lower than Dees next year.

FFS ... and conspiracy theorists

So much ignorance, assumption and mis-information from so many panic merchants, woe is me, henny-pennies!

There's a bit too much teeth gnashing happening. Melb were interested, but wouldn't sell the farm. It's silly to bundle every other missed opportunity from years gone by to this pragmatic negotiation and declare that the MFC fall short "once again". It's a separate entity and some would do well and treat it as such.

I dont see how paying 2 first rounders is overs when they get MD pick 2 and ND pick 14 back.... This deal screams Adelaide WIN to me

Did anyone make Daffy duck for cover? or, if he has indeed left, did he just decide he wanted to move on? Not every doc wants to hang around forever like Reid at Essendon and Zimmerman at the Bulldogs. Maybe, just maybe, there is nothing to see here.

If our coach doesn't act on it, he's not a required player at the MFC.

I wonder now that the Hawks have picked up Gunston, they will be more likely to accept offers regarding Lisle, especially since they have no pick inside the top 50....

Can't see how MD pick 2 can be traded ahead of pick 1 - what if pick 1 can't get done? Does pick 2 become pick 1? The Crows have ND 10 vs our ND 12 so we're in a bind there.

Maybe you've hit the nail on the head right there - Warnock behind Frawley, Rivers and now Tom McDonald - Lisle behind Franklin, Hale and Roughead. We are developing our own - Cook and Fitzpatrick, but if Lisle is ready-to-go and at the right price then we should pursue him hard. It's like shooting fish in a barrel to come up with all the reasons why things won't work - you're an Olympic standard shot.

Josh Kennedy says hello ( And Ben McGlyn also waves - although I think he still would be borderlne at Hawks) Edit - the reason they would be giving Lisle away is the same reason the two above were released - there are players at Hawthorn ahead of them. They gave Kennedy away as they believed there to be better options in the midfield - however it goes back to what I have banged on about for ever and a day - in so many cases, you dont know what you have got until the player reaches 23/24 years of age. Therefore you are at risk trading out these young players that havent reached any sort of maturity

Wow. Some extremely harsh assessments of Rivers there. I couldn’t give a stuff about best and fairests – personally, I thought there were far better players than Moloney this year when things weren’t going our way – but I do think Rivers had a good year and is an important part of our team. I think he improved his one-on-one play significantly, often made himself an option out of defence when the more creative Garland and Rivers were being “well-held” and played the old third man up role as well as he ever has. People have been declaring the death of the “kick it long” philosophy for many years, and have said that without indiscriminate kicking into the forward line, Rivers no longer has a place in the game. I disagree, but there’s no doubt it suits him to a tee. If the last few weeks of the year are anything to go by, “just kick it” footy is well and truly back in vogue. I think his kicking is average, but nowhere near as bad as Warnock’s or Macdonald’s. He has a tendency to panic under pressure, but is neat with a bit of space. Interesting to see what Neeld does with him. I’d be very surprised if he consigned him to Casey duties.

Looking back over Brads career at our club, the majority of his injuries have resulted from collisions which in-turn have resulted from keeping his eye on the footy. That said, I have no fear in giving him a two year contract because I think he has the body to absorb another two years of hard AFL footy. If it is this 1 year only rubbish that is the sticking point in re-signing Brad then I will be very disappointed. I've said before that he should not be Captain next year but by gee, I want him out there kicking goals. Get it sorted out now please fella's.

His player profile for anyone that's interested: http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/tabid/8483/Default.aspx?playerid=19914 Bear in mind that he'll be 22 next year and that we all know that KPP take longer, let's not bury him just yet. I honestly couldn't give a rats either way if we get him or not.

Very good outcome for the Dees if this comes to fruition. I'd prefer to take a punt on a second rounder, than persist with Addam who's shown very little imo.

Honestly, I'd be happy just to keep our picks as they are now & use them next year in the 2012 Super Draft where we'd have been able to see the U-18 boys in real TAC situations as mature, not (U-17). We'd see a better representation.

Looks like he will fit right in at the dees

Young player shanks a kick for goal in his first match? Oh no, obviously a dud. Delist him now. Have a look at his breathing as he's lining up for goal. He's so nervous he's on the brink of a heart attack. Give him a break.

I'm starting to think that maybe it's not a bad idea that we don't get a mini draft pick and have to deal with GWS. This whole trade week scenario so far seems absurd. GC Suns have at least come into the competition with some integrity. GWS so far have none.

According to the Age GWS actually wanted to get 2 U17 picks back with the promise that another pick taken would not be used on O'Meara. While it is clear that the AFL don't like the look of this it has left the door ajar. Unbelievable.

Make no mistake here - Brad Green is head and shoulders above all the players that I've read are said to be on the table at the moment from other clubs. He was essentially AA last year. And he's a life long Demon. Sign him up asap.

So in effect the AFL is saying to GWS that it can try again but not be so blatant about what they're doing. Fair dinkum. There's so much hypocrisy and lies about the system that the mind truly boggles!

Firstly, I think H_T sums it up perfectly in post #5. It was a season I'm sure Greeny would like to forget, from both playing and leadership perspectives. Now please forgive me a bit of rambling: I supported Greeny's appointment as captain in 2011 ... after all, he had a stellar 2010 on the field, and had shown sound 'lead from the front' credentials without actually shouldering the responsibilities of the top job. For me he was the obvious choice!. However, I do recall pondering (briefly), how quickly he had gone from being voted off the Leadership Group by his peers in 2008, only to be reinstated 12 months later, to being appointed captain in 2011. Clearly, it seemed at the time, he had addressed his perceived weaknesses as a leader, and in the eyes of his team-mates and coaches, he was ready to step up to the top job. That's really quite a turn-around in a short space of time. I recall some revealing interviews with Greeny at the time he was demoted from the Leadership Group (or maybe it was when he was appointed as skipper). He talked about his introverted personality, and how he needed to work hard to be more assertive, on and off the field. Now, reflecting back on his first year as captain, it seems obvious to me that Greeny was trying so hard to be a good captain, that he lost sight of the fundamentals of playing good football. This weighed so heavily on him that the harder he tried, the worse things became. Simple things, like kicking routine goals, became very difficult as the pressure mounted. Whilst leadership can be learned (I think Neita and Junior started from a fair way back and learned as they went along), it's doubly difficult for someone with Greeny's personality type. .......... end of inconclusive and probably incoherent ramble!

Right back at you

Screw that, we have the best one!

By my reckoning (with the help of footywire) he kicked 20 goals in games against Essendon (4), Fremantle (5), Richmond (3), Hawthorn (4), and Gold Coast (4). And then 17 goals in the other 16 games. And he only cracked 20 possies 3 times in 2011... But that isn't my gripe - we all know he can play good footy as his 2010 was superb (9 20+possie games, 9 three goal or more games), my gripe is with his pathetic body language and his seemingly lack of desire to do something as basic as the before game/half time rev up (Brent Moloney does it). And people may say "so what if he let's Brent do that?" and I would try to point out that in a team atmosphere like that, it is important for THE leader to be seen to be THE leader. Added to that is the embarrassing interviews after awful losses with nervous laughs and terrible little deflective jokes.

Unfortunately that's worse than 2010, and if you're not getting better as a player, then how can you expect to lead your Club anywhere but away from a Premiership. I'd say that Aaron Davey, Brad Green, Cale Morton, Lynden Dunn and (for obvious reasons) Austin Wonaeamirri are the only players who played considerably worse this year than last year, and you can reasonably expect the heat to be put most intensely on these players. The fact that Brad Green is also our Captain only compounds his abject failure this year. If the buck stops with the Coach, the bell must surely toll for the Captain, too.