7 hours ago, John Demonic said:

I knew this would get a run

I haven’t given up either, of course it’s unlikely, JVR being off is a massive disaster, this time last year I thought he had blue sky in front of him. But all that said, we have serious talent, all of our starting 18 would get a gig at any other team ( not sure I could say the same about the bench) This really makes me think it is a matter of confidence and we are all searching for that bottle shop. Ignore the footy shows and sen, they will just pump up your MFCSS. Personally I think Fritsch needs a bigger sabbatical and Trac needs to be told to stop shirking set shots.

A lot gets made of Hawthorn being 0-5, 1-6 and 3-7 last year, on their way to a 14-9 finish.

I think what gets forgotten is that for the last few years, there have been sides who look right out of it far deeper into the season than where we are now, but made and/or won finals.

Last year:

1. Hawthorn (yes them again) was 8-7 and 13th on the ladder in Round 17, but won a final and nearly won two

2. the Dogs were 8-7 and 11th on the ladder in Round 17, but finished 6th

3. Port Adelaide was 9th in Round 18 (we were above them at this part of the year!) but finished 2nd

In 2023:

1. Carlton was 5-1-8 and 15th on the ladder in Round 15 and...well we all know how that turned out (a prelim)

2. Sydney was 6-1-9 and 15th on the ladder in Round 17 and finished 8th

3. GWS was 6-8 and 14th on the ladder in Round 14, still 9th in Round 18, 10th in Round 22, but lost a prelim by a point

Even in 2022, Collingwood was 6-5 and 10th in Round 11 but ended up top 4 and losing a prelim by a point, and the Dogs were 10-11 and 10th in Round 21 but still made finals and led their final by 7 goals before choking.

FWIW I don't see us making finals this year given our upcoming fixture, the competitors above us for the bottom few spots in the 8, and of course our overall form still not being good enough. But the last few years shows us that, if we do somehow get on a run from here, @Adam The God 's overall contention can be true, the season doesn't have to be done yet.

We may get close to squaring the ledger at 9-9 etc but our last 4 weeks are brutal.

IE No chance.

Let’s see what we have. Play some of the kids. Of course a coach who is coaching for their life, may choose a different policy.

We’re 3-6 after completing a relatively easier run of fixtures. We’re just not playing well enough. Love the optimism but it won’t happen. Hope I’m wrong.

12 hours ago, Adam The God said:

I wasn't sure where to put this, but it will be interesting to track this over the rest of the season.

I haven't given up on playing finals in 2025 and although we don't look fit enough, if we can start to take more of our chances in front of goal (a big if), we'll be in most games with our new method. Do that and we give ourselves a chance of playing finals.

Here is the 2024 ladder at the end of Round 10. Notice Hawthorn...

And here is the 2025 ladder at the start of Round 10. Notice our percentage.

So media darlings, Hawthorn, were 3-7 with a worse percentage after this round and made a Semi Final.

The players have started to believe in the system and back in their team mates. There'll be ups and downs this year, but the overall trajectory, IMV, will be upward.

And the main point? There's plenty of time left in this season. We're not dead yet.

Fitness or lack thereof is our biggest stumbling block.

9 hours ago, Adam The God said:

@YesitwasaWin4theAges vis a vis not improving our list year on year, I reckon we've had the same strategy as our initial 2013-2015 drafting strategy. Bring in an elite group together and build the team around them.

In 2013-2015, it was Salem, Trac, Gus and Oliver.

We've brought in Windsor, Kolt, Langford and Lindsay in two years. I'm not sold on Kolt, it's clear to me he's not of the same ilk as the other three. However, I hope he'll be an important glue player like Gus was in that group.

I think we should be looking for 1 or 2 more elite picks to join our latest group.

Then, I presume we'll follow the same strategy as 2016-2019, with Lever, May and Langdon, and we'll target some FAs.

Overall though, I think our list is improving, but we need more class in the midfield and better finishers forward of the centre. We need to bring in guys with x factor, who will hit the scoreboard.

Agree with all of this. Do you think the possibly availability of Jackson will change this rebuild strategy though?

I assumed we would try to add more quality via the draft this year but if Jackson wants to come does this throw that strategy out the window a bit?

Unless we also lose Pickett in which case we have future picks to trade into this year.

I think our bailing efforts have sped up and we're not sinking quite as fast as we were. My concern is that even if we got all the water out of the hull and patched up the holes (which I doubt very much), the vessel still isn't in particularly good shape.

I love optimism - I come to Demonland in part to read about hope for the future - but I wonder if the optimists are a touch too focused on how good Langford, Lindsay and Windsor look, and too nonchalantly overlooking how shallow the list is.

We've had players spectacularly out of form for weeks on end and there is a very large group of players either doing very little at Casey or putting up decent stats but not being considered. That either points to outrageous stubbornness from the people responsible for selection (I'm sure there's a bit of that) or a whole heap of players not capable of doing it at AFL level.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, when the vast majority of supporters agree with Goodwin et al that Melksham is an immediate inclusion under every circumstance, you know your list is still a way off.

I didn't think this was a finals team at the start of the year. I don't think it's a finals team now.

43 minutes ago, Colm said:

Agree with all of this. Do you think the possibly availability of Jackson will change this rebuild strategy though?

I assumed we would try to add more quality via the draft this year but if Jackson wants to come does this throw that strategy out the window a bit?

Unless we also lose Pickett in which case we have future picks to trade into this year.

I think it makes it difficult to continue with the strategy.

But we may have to trade a Fritta or Oliver or one of our WA boys, and we don't like to talk about the latter on here.

44 minutes ago, The Taciturn Demon said:

I think our bailing efforts have sped up and we're not sinking quite as fast as we were. My concern is that even if we got all the water out of the hull and patched up the holes (which I doubt very much), the vessel still isn't in particularly good shape.

I love optimism - I come to Demonland in part to read about hope for the future - but I wonder if the optimists are a touch too focused on how good Langford, Lindsay and Windsor look, and too nonchalantly overlooking how shallow the list is.

We've had players spectacularly out of form for weeks on end and there is a very large group of players either doing very little at Casey or putting up decent stats but not being considered. That either points to outrageous stubbornness from the people responsible for selection (I'm sure there's a bit of that) or a whole heap of players not capable of doing it at AFL level.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, when the vast majority of supporters agree with Goodwin et al that Melksham is an immediate inclusion under every circumstance, you know your list is still a way off.

I didn't think this was a finals team at the start of the year. I don't think it's a finals team now.

It’s a fair point about how highly we rate our new young brigade. I do think we have a great young bunch coming through but so do most clubs in the comp.

If you look at North, the Suns, Bombers, Richmond, eagles even the likes of the lions, cats and the filth they all have some great talent coming through( and more coming via F/S and academies) that you would love to have in your side. Most clubs do .

Casey doesn’t seem to have the next lot waiting in the wings if we are to get back to contending for flags we need to get a lot of decisions right over the coming months and years

13 hours ago, Adam The God said:

Hawthorn were Laziraus last year were they?

This is a great thread …not stupid optimism but well thought out points. Hopefully the doomsayers stay out of it and we can have some balanced opinions ..

1 hour ago, The Taciturn Demon said:

I think our bailing efforts have sped up and we're not sinking quite as fast as we were. My concern is that even if we got all the water out of the hull and patched up the holes (which I doubt very much), the vessel still isn't in particularly good shape.

I love optimism - I come to Demonland in part to read about hope for the future - but I wonder if the optimists are a touch too focused on how good Langford, Lindsay and Windsor look, and too nonchalantly overlooking how shallow the list is.

We've had players spectacularly out of form for weeks on end and there is a very large group of players either doing very little at Casey or putting up decent stats but not being considered. That either points to outrageous stubbornness from the people responsible for selection (I'm sure there's a bit of that) or a whole heap of players not capable of doing it at AFL level.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, when the vast majority of supporters agree with Goodwin et al that Melksham is an immediate inclusion under every circumstance, you know your list is still a way off.

I didn't think this was a finals team at the start of the year. I don't think it's a finals team now.

If you can’t see why Melksham is so important in a very young forward line & with an out of form Fritsch …then all other points you make are invalid. His experience..ball delivery and on field coaching is exactly what we need right now

Love the enthusiasm but in simple terms you need 14 wins plus percentage to make the final eight.

That means we can only lose three more games and to increase percentage we will need three wins by more than 50 points.

Not seeing it.

It’s not just the losses we had but how we lost.

Yes Langford / Windsor / X look like beauties but remind me how are Collingwood’s first rd picks going?

We can’t score, been a problem for years now and we’re not getting any better.

Could we / should we have targeted Membrey / Wright ?

I can see elements in our gameplan changing but it’s taken 18 months to long and not everyone is on board at times in terms of where to run to create space / options.

Really hope we have a new coach next year.

2 hours ago, The Taciturn Demon said:

I love optimism - I come to Demonland in part to read about hope for the future -

you are in the wrong place for that.

1 hour ago, Deestar9 said:

If you can’t see why Melksham is so important in a very young forward line & with an out of form Fritsch …then all other points you make are invalid. His experience..ball delivery and on field coaching is exactly what we need right now

Over his last 100 games (injured, half games, undefined role) melksham averages a goal assist a game. Over a career, that would rank him the BEST in the modern era.

People focus on his shortcomings far too much and dont appreciate how elite (all time elite) he actually is at creating goals. We could do with a bit of that I reckon.

15 hours ago, Adam The God said:

Hawthorn were Laziraus last year were they?

Didn't he play for Fitzroy?.....Gary Laziraus

Before there's any chance of an in-season resurrection best address the last quarter fade outs.

According to the '24 review an intense mid-season mini pre-season from home hell is recommended.

Edited May 15May 15 by Tarax Club
miracles do happen? edit

16 hours ago, Adam The God said:

I don't think there are any rules around this. Brisbane also came from 0-5 last year. It's about game style and ability to execute. So far we've been patchy on execution, but we are seeing good signs, just not for long enough.

Agree with most of that. But last year Brisbane beat us in Round 5 recovering to 2-3.

This week feels like the last chance saloon to me. So many tough games ahead.

Shirley, it’s weekend at Birnies or brissies Can somebody called Lomax bring a wheelbarrow , thanks

You sure

1 minute ago, demon3165 said:

You sure

Yep, we are on life support for sure at moment. Just cannot continue with 5/6 players not contributing. Understand that not all players on a given day perform to their best but of late our bottom 6 are giving us nothing and some of them are decent players and 21 premiership players. If unable to shine at least harass, tackle and play the team game.

10 minutes ago, Docs Demons said:

Yep, we are on life support for sure at moment. Just cannot continue with 5/6 players not contributing. Understand that not all players on a given day perform to their best but of late our bottom 6 are giving us nothing and some of them are decent players and 21 premiership players. If unable to shine, at least harass, tackle and play the team game.

We screwed up after 21 the game was changing and we persistent with the 21 game style we bit ourselves in the 🍑🍑 the pies have changed again and adapted with their game style big changes are needed and a reset from the football department.

Good on you, I’ll have a cup of that Kool Aid to go with the vomit that’s risen in the back of my throat over the first part of the season.

I think we wont make finals, but we have to finish strong to:

1, be an interesting destination for potential trade ins at year’s end

2, keep membership up, etc

3, get a decent draw and tv coverage next year.

But im all aboard the ray of sunshine, and will cheer every moment on the way……