Why no key forward?

[Just Koz 2]

Is anyone else a bit perplexed as to why another trade period has gone by and still we feel short a threatening key forward? Understand that we’re committing to Petty, JVR and Turner - and I see the potential in all of them - but they’re all still young and inexperienced in the role and surely don’t fill quality defensive units with much concern. 

Players like Darling or Lynch are clearly well past their best, but wouldn’t it be better to have one of those in your forward line group for added depth and experience? If they earn themselves a spot they demand a good defender, and pressure comes off one of our young developing forwards? 
 

We had this issue before ‘21 then went and got Brown. And he made a massive difference when fit and in form. Since then we’ve lost him, Jackson and Smith, who could all do that role effectively, and have only replaced them kids. I just think we need at least one old war horse in that area to help these guys out. 
 

The other point is, is one of P, JVR or T gets injured, which Petty and Turner often do, who comes in? Jefferson with even less experience? I think a lot of excuses around our results over the last couple of years is around injuries in these areas - as well as key backs - but why would we assume ‘25 would be any different? Injury isn’t all luck. 
 

Just think we’ve needed more depth and experience in that position for a while now. Hell I wouldn’t have hated Stringer or Membrey to at least give defenders something else to think about. 

[Little Goffy 14,750]

Hi Just Koz, welcome to Demonland!

I'm going to have a 'think out loud' about this;

I feel like this problem has been clinging to the club for decades - since the Lyon-Shwartz-Neitz period the only exception was the brief moment in 2021 when we had all our tall forwards together for about 10 games and thumped our way to a premiership!

I feel like we nearly nearly had the recipe in 2023 but there were simply too many injuries stacked on top of each other, and since then the forward line hasn't been able to find an effective rhythm.

Optimistically, Van Rooyen and (when in form) Petty can both contest effectively and are both pretty good at getting around the ground. They're nicely balanced tall forwards. I'm confident about Van Rooyen's future but the 'when in form' part for Petty is a massive issue.

Our tall forward group is now amazingly young with Petty the oldest at 24 and the others 20, 21 and 22.

I agree that a mature hand would be helpful but when the names on offer are Darling, Lynch, Membrey and Stringer I'm just not getting enthusiastic.

There's only a few free agents of interest for this area in 2025 and I don't hold high hopes for any of them moving. Oscar Allen only if he's willing to move across the country and take less money just to be away from the Eagles. Darcy Fogarty would depend on how the talls pecking order plays out at Adelaide, but with Walker surely finishing soon he's unlikely to be on the outer. Tom De Koning would be rolled gold if he was willing to be a forward first and ruck second and presumptive Gawn successor.

But my main thought is that getting a key forward who is mature and effective is one of the hardest tasks in list management, and recruiting them from other clubs is seriously expensive.

For now it looks like we're going to persevere with our kids and hope for a generation of home-grown talent to deliver, and that's not a bad decision but I do share your concerns.

[Flowergirl 539]

This year our tall forwards weren't the problem. It was our midfield. You have to actually get the ball to the forwards for them to have any impact. There were not many prospects during trade period this year. Lynch is so injury prone anyway. Maybe Wade Derkson would have been a good get, but he is a swingman.

[Adam The God 30,602]

2 hours ago, Just Koz said:

Is anyone else a bit perplexed as to why another trade period has gone by and still we feel short a threatening key forward? Understand that we’re committing to Petty, JVR and Turner - and I see the potential in all of them - but they’re all still young and inexperienced in the role and surely don’t fill quality defensive units with much concern. 

Players like Darling or Lynch are clearly well past their best, but wouldn’t it be better to have one of those in your forward line group for added depth and experience? If they earn themselves a spot they demand a good defender, and pressure comes off one of our young developing forwards? 
 

We had this issue before ‘21 then went and got Brown. And he made a massive difference when fit and in form. Since then we’ve lost him, Jackson and Smith, who could all do that role effectively, and have only replaced them kids. I just think we need at least one old war horse in that area to help these guys out. 
 

The other point is, is one of P, JVR or T gets injured, which Petty and Turner often do, who comes in? Jefferson with even less experience? I think a lot of excuses around our results over the last couple of years is around injuries in these areas - as well as key backs - but why would we assume ‘25 would be any different? Injury isn’t all luck. 
 

Just think we’ve needed more depth and experience in that position for a while now. Hell I wouldn’t have hated Stringer or Membrey to at least give defenders something else to think about. 

Nope. We are backing in JVR, Petty, Turner. I'm also hoping we go with the two tall forwards and then the hybrids around them.

[mo64 5,881]

The biggest issue is that we haven't replaced Jackson. Fullarton was supposed to be the guy, but so far hasn't shown enough at VFL level.

If we can alleviate JVR of 2nd ruck duties, I'm more than happy with he, Petty, Turner and a developing Jefferson.

We've used 2 1st round picks on key forwards in 2 of the last 3 drafts. We need to top up on quality mids. So unless a quality key forward fell to us via free agency, I wouldn't blow our draft capital on a key forward.

[KozzyCan 788]

Club is right to stop obsessing over key forwards. Work with what you have. Play a game style that doesn't require an amazing key forward to win us games but instead allows us to threaten in other ways. Don't force guys like Petty who can't play the role to do it just because the setup worked in 2021. A square peg in a round hole is a hiding to nothing.

[BAMF 4,433]

10 minutes ago, mo64 said:

The biggest issue is that we haven't replaced Jackson. Fullarton was supposed to be the guy, but so far hasn't shown enough at VFL level.

If we can alleviate JVR of 2nd ruck duties, I'm more than happy with he, Petty, Turner and a developing Jefferson.

We've used 2 1st round picks on key forwards in 2 of the last 3 drafts. We need to top up on quality mids. So unless a quality key forward fell to us via free agency, I wouldn't blow our draft capital on a key forward.

100% agree.

It is probably the hardest position to fill though.

A player around 200cm tall who needs to be good enough as a tall forward to warrant selection.

Jackson and the DeKonning boys are the standouts.

Sam Darcy for bulldogs. Hayden McLean for Swans.

Then you start moving into the Mason Cox territory.

 

 

[Redleg 41,933]

38 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

Nope. We are backing in JVR, Petty, Turner. I'm also hoping we go with the two tall forwards and then the hybrids around them.

Agree. There was no one else available to us, except maybe the untried Wade Derksen, who the Giants refused to discuss.

Jeffo, Kentfield and imo Verrall, are others who may make it and I am bullish on Jeffo and Verrall, but just don't know enough about Kentfield, who from all reports should improve dramatically ( hopefully ) after a full pre season with us and having settled in Melbourne.

Edited October 16, 2024 by Redleg

[DubDee 26,295]

Reasonable question but the only one really available was Darling

I would certainly prefer we did not bring him in and take away games from Petty, JVR, Turner, Jefferson

He is past his best and would only come to a club where is guaranteed games for a couple of years.

 

[rpfc 28,895]

We were after Waterman weren’t we?

I guess we came up empty again. I am somewhat comfortable with this as we are in a bit of a ‘regen on the run’ as Cal Twomey (or the other one) put it to Tim Lamb so they can finally get some reps into Petty and Turner and see if they are going to long term fits with JVR or whether they need to go and spend some capital next October as we look to win some finals in 2026.

Edited October 16, 2024 by rpfc

[SFebes 4,884]

We have Fritsch and Pickett as proven goal kickers. Hopefully JVR improves as he goes missing way too much. I personally think the addition of goal kicking mids would provide the chaos and less one dimensional structure. Windsor, Rivers, Petracca plus whoever we pick up. Viney seems to be drifting forward more also. A handful of mids who can kick their 20 odd goals would be super handy and take the pressure of a KPF.

[roy11 3,965]

3 minutes ago, SFebes said:

We have Fritsch and Pickett as proven goal kickers. Hopefully JVR improves as he goes missing way too much. I personally think the addition of goal kicking mids would provide the chaos and less one dimensional structure. Windsor, Rivers, Petracca plus whoever we pick up. Viney seems to be drifting forward more also. A handful of mids who can kick their 20 odd goals would be super handy and take the pressure of a KPF.

Assume if we draft some gun mids and keep on with Rivers in the middle we'll have Trac resting forward a bit too.

If he wasn't doing Ruck work too i'd have JvR as my early prediction for club leading goal scorer in 2025.

[Satyriconhome 10,880]

Sigh.....the start of PTDS post trade depression syndrome.....

.

 

[spirit of norm smith 16,615]

We are stacked with potential key forwards.  

JVR. Progressing but still young.  Ruck relief at the moment as well. Needs to be a one grab player. 

Jefferson. Drafted at 1st round pick 15 in 2022 draft.  JT put a hope on him. Two years at Casey as expected but needs to show more and hopefully debut in 2025. 

Turner and Petty.  Natural defenders.  Turned forwards.  Good judge of marks.   Both showed intermittent form. 

Fullarton. Ruck? Forward? Recruited as a ruck/forward.  Appears Dees think he is neither as not given chances when vacancy arrived. 

Kentfield.  Big. Raw.  Low probability but given a chance.  

[layzie 34,326]

I would have liked Derksen but I'm not fussed with the talls we're going with. a lot of my friends think we need to throw everything at a marquee forward and I hate this idea. There might have been a time when this was the missing piece of the puzzle but there's a lot of other pressing issues now.

[Red But Mostly Blue 4,558]

I think we have enough forward firepower next year. It's actually a pretty dynamic and dangerous lineup.

JVR has developed nicely, and one of my frustrations was having him rucking so much. Useful, but not as useful as him continuing to develop his forward craft. We have brought in extra ruck assistance for Max, which may free up JVR. Disco had a good year and a mostly clear run with injuries, which has helped. He will continue to develop next year. He's just a kid, who's been converted from the backline. He's a great kick and gets into some good spots. With some mentorship and another year, again, he will be useful, Add to that Fritta, Melk (both elite kicks and smart players), Kozzie, Chandler and Trac floating in alongside Max, to get a chopout from ruck, I think that looks pretty good. 

The issue was the midfield and delivery. We were owned in the midfield most of the year, and still have not mastered the art of lowering the eyes and spearing passes to guys like Melk, Fritta, JVR and Disco who are pretty good at making space. They can't kick many goals if they aren't getting delivery. 

We need to keep working on midfield, delivery and playing smart. 

[DeeSpencer 26,266]

Didn’t kick many goals but post bye Harry Petty was clunking marks and he now gets a preseason.

JVR is solid. If he builds his tank and improved his marking and decision making he should start to own the CHF role as Petty goes back and a ruck/forward comes in.

Disco and Jeffo are the big question marks for sure, but both have shown enough to suggest with time they’ll likely be AFL players. Disco with a preseason could be sooner than later.

I’d rather have 3 of those 4 plus Melk for depth than Darling, Membrey level players.

The biggest change is a new forwards coach and hopefully a fit midfield and half back line playing up tempo open footy.

[Ugottobekidding 1,242]

Probably because there weren't any to target in an appropriate age group.

[Young Blood 2,639]

9 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Didn’t kick many goals but post bye Harry Petty was clunking marks and he now gets a preseason.

JVR is solid. If he builds his tank and improved his marking and decision making he should start to own the CHF role as Petty goes back and a ruck/forward comes in.

Disco and Jeffo are the big question marks for sure, but both have shown enough to suggest with time they’ll likely be AFL players. Disco with a preseason could be sooner than later.

I’d rather have 3 of those 4 plus Melk for depth than Darling, Membrey level players.

The biggest change is a new forwards coach and hopefully a fit midfield and half back line playing up tempo open footy.

Well said. I completely forgot Turner got the leg fracture mid Feb that set his whole season back 10+ weeks and yes Petty with his feet. God I hope he gets them right for preseason this year.

Edited October 17, 2024 by Young Blood

[Queanbeyan Demon 6,935]

I haven't the time right now to read the whole thread - but YTF we didn't chase Darling and Parker is totally beyond me. So many pluses and so few downsides to both of them.

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,525]

All through my childhood (the 90s), we were blessed with such powerful forward lines, but were always seemingly let down by our defensive personal (aside from some cult heroes).

It's hard to believe that:
Bennett
Jakovich
Lyon
Schwarz
Robertson
Neitz

were all plying within four years of each other! 

 

[Young Blood 2,639]

8 minutes ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

I haven't the time right now to read the whole thread - but YTF we didn't chase Darling and Parker is totally beyond me. So many pluses and so few downsides to both of them.

Are you wanting to trade for these two players for depth? Because neither would have any interest in playing for Casey. They've gone to a club where they will be guaranteed playing AFL level.

Darling is on the decline. Kicked 22 goals from 21 games this season and similar in 2023. Wouldn't want him taking opportunities for our developing forwards anyway.

Where are you playing Parker? Whose being dropped? Like I said he won't be interested in being a fringe player.

Edited October 17, 2024 by Young Blood

[Colm 2,189]

1 hour ago, Adam The God said:

Nope. We are backing in JVR, Petty, Turner. I'm also hoping we go with the two tall forwards and then the hybrids around them.

Good call I think. Also the majority of mids we are linked to in the draft are good forward of the ball and may rotate with Trac. 

[Queanbeyan Demon 6,935]

7 minutes ago, Young Blood said:

Are you wanting to trade for these two players for depth? Because neither would have any interest in playing for Casey. They've gone to a club where they will be guaranteed playing AFL level.

Darling is on the decline. Kicked 22 goals from 21 games this season and similar in 2023. Wouldn't want him taking opportunities for our developing forwards anyway.

Where are you playing Parker? Whose being dropped? Like I said he won't be interested in being a fringe player.

Um . . . Parker is still in the top 300 players in the comp. You mean there's not a role in a side that finished well out of finals contention for that sort of a player who can play multiple roles? Judging Darling on his last two years at Wet Toast is ridiculous. Hudson would be battling to kick a goal with that mob. As a decoy for JVR, Disco, Jeffo Airoplane - he would have been fabulous. 

[Young Blood 2,639]

2 minutes ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

Um . . . Parker is still in the top 300 players in the comp. You mean there's not a role in a side that finished well out of finals contention for that sort of a player who can play multiple roles? Judging Darling on his last two years at Wet Toast is ridiculous. Hudson would be battling to kick a goal with that mob. As a decoy for JVR, Disco, Jeffo Airoplane - he would have been fabulous. 

Good point. I'll shut up