The Controversial Discussion about the Knee that needs to be had

[Earl Hood 6,082]

I am not convinced about Moore’s intent in this case and there is no way to prove anything. From the vision he flexes his knee not to gain a ride on someone’s back and gain height for a mark, the knee was driven straight into the players side. And he was attempting to reach over the pack to get a fist on the ball so a flexed knee would actually hinder how far you can reach, so the quite exaggerated knee flex looked wrong to me. 
 

It’s a wonder injuries of this nature  don’t occur on a regular basis given the situation of a player caught under the ball with 195 cm monsters coming from behind to spoil happens numerous times every game. 

[Fork 'em 6,983]

47 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

 It’s a wonder injuries of this nature  don’t occur on a regular basis given the situation of a player caught under the ball with 195 cm monsters coming from behind to spoil happens numerous times every game. 

A moment in time I'll ever forget was when I was behind the goals at the Jolimont end watching Mebourne V Geelong during the 80's.
High fly ball into the goal square and you had Ablett, Brownless, Danny Hughes and aother Melbourne defender I can't recall coming from different directions at near full pace to converge at the drop of the ball.
4 big men , knees up, flying for the mark/spoil with reckless abandon for their personnel safety.
No-one actually took the mark, no-one was injured but at the time it was something I felt like putting my hands to my face and watching through my fingers such was the impact.
Awesome stuff up close and what makes ya pay ya money to go see it.

[Return to Glory 8,412]

Cox knees opponents deliberately. No question about it.

[dees189227 12,373]

I just saw on the news witts has a fractured vertebrae from Moore. 

Is anyone going to start calling this out?

I accepted what happened to trac was an accident but now another player cops an injury

[Fanatique Demon 2,642]

55 minutes ago, dees189227 said:

I just saw on the news witts has a fractured vertebrae from Moore. 

Is anyone going to start calling this out?

I accepted what happened to trac was an accident but now another player cops an injury

Thanks for posting that. I saw that incident and wondered at the time if Witts would be injured like Trac was. Moore has taken some big scalps.
There has to some common sense applied here. If a player hits an opponent in the head by whatever method, no matter the intent, it should be a reportable offence.
 

[Little Goffy 14,462]

It seems to me that all the injuries happen when the knee doesn't rise enough to actually be effective for getting a rise off someone anyway. Certainly the injuries to Petracca and Longergan that was the case.

I do worry that the leap would risk being removed entirely, but I feel like there must be some level of detail that could remove the bulk of the remaining injuries of this type. On the other hand, it is such an instinctive motion that it could be very hard to retrain.

[Demonsterative 3,020]

On 12/06/2024 at 10:08, demon3165 said:

Yeah let's ban stops because the scratch people, what a load of [censored], first question how many of these injuries have there been since the game began over how many games? Seriously what next ban the meat pie because it will burn your mouth, well not at the MCG anyway just leave the game alone.

I prefer a hot dog. 🌭

 

bring back full strength beer tho 😎

[djr 1,433]

I think its time to introduce a male impact protection vest, similar to the vest already used in the AFLW to great effect. Link https://zenasport.com.au/. If Trac wore a male version of one of these vests it might have absorbed a lot of the impact. Instead making rule changes, make it compulsory for all players to wear these vests. 

[Earl Hood 6,082]

56 minutes ago, Fanatique Demon said:

Thanks for posting that. I saw that incident and wondered at the time if Witts would be injured like Trac was. Moore has taken some big scalps.
There has to some common sense applied here. If a player hits an opponent in the head by whatever method, no matter the intent, it should be a reportable offence.
 

As I have said before the AFL is demanding that players have a duty of care to other players when tackling, when bumping, we have eradicated the coat hangers and gut punches but we accept a player coming from behind, flexing his knee and driving it into a player sitting under a high ball. I agree it’s difficult to outlaw it as it’s such a great part of our game when players use their knee to gain height for a mark or spoil. iMO Darcy Moore wasn’t doing that in the Petracca case, he wasn’t using the knee to gain height or for protection. Given the severity of the injury inflicted, surely the AFL has a duty of care to protect players by putting Clubs on notice that this behaviour will be scrutinised in the future. The MRO could review any similar incident that results in an injury and make a call on whether it was careless, intentional, low or high impact use of the knee and decide the appropriate penalty. No doubt they will get things wrong but it would force players to change the way they jump into a pack. 

 

[58er 6,395]

On 12/06/2024 at 18:55, Return to Glory said:

Cox knees opponents deliberately. No question about it.

Agree entirely 

[Earl Hood 6,082]

2 hours ago, dees189227 said:

I just saw on the news witts has a fractured vertebrae from Moore. 

Is anyone going to start calling this out?

I accepted what happened to trac was an accident but now another player cops an injury

Have another look at the replay of the Petracca injury and Moore’s actions to cause the damage and his behaviour immediately after the impact. Sorry I am not convinced it was entirely an accident. If I caused that injury genuinely by accident I am sure I would at least inquire how the player was feeling and apologise. I didn’t see any of that. 

[monoccular 17,413]

12 minutes ago, djr said:

Instead making rule changes, make it compulsory for all players to wear these vests. 

which would, of course, be a rule change itself 🤔

[Dee*ceiving 1,674]

Disgraceful. Collingwood have become a law unto themselves. They do as they please, entirely unaccountable...just like the media. 

Disgusting there wasn't at least some commentary about Moores actions leading to tracs injury, low and behold it's happened again a month later.  

Bring more victim blaming, that's what we need!! 🤦

[djr 1,433]

6 minutes ago, monoccular said:

which would, of course, be a rule change itself 🤔

Well said, but I believe you understand what I mean.

[Dee*ceiving 1,674]

Collingwood have just trademarked a handle for Darcy's right knee...

"The widow maker"

Soon to feature on PPV...

[Billy 2,521]

48 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

Have another look at the replay of the Petracca injury and Moore’s actions to cause the damage and his behaviour immediately after the impact. Sorry I am not convinced it was entirely an accident. If I caused that injury genuinely by accident I am sure I would at least inquire how the player was feeling and apologise. I didn’t see any of that. 

Na he’s a good bloke and very articulate, didn’t he & and Crisp ask Trac “do you think you should be out here” Such a caring club [censored]!!!

[Fanatique Demon 2,642]

We got the Toby rule to stop feet hitting opponents in marking contests. Now there needs to be the Darcy rule.

[Mel Bourne 4,515]

3 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

Have another look at the replay of the Petracca injury and Moore’s actions to cause the damage and his behaviour immediately after the impact. Sorry I am not convinced it was entirely an accident. If I caused that injury genuinely by accident I am sure I would at least inquire how the player was feeling and apologise. I didn’t see any of that. 

Trac said that Moore has been in touch with him regularly since the incident.  They’re friends who have known each other since they were eight years old. 

[DEE fence 5,004]

9 hours ago, Dee*ceiving said:

Collingwood have just trademarked a handle for Darcy's right knee...

"The widow maker"

Soon to feature on PPV...

Here is the knee, reminds me of nik nat with his carelessness, maybe not Mitchell level but definitely developing form.

[bush demon 2,038]

On 12/06/2024 at 11:09, Fork 'em said:

Correct.
I cannot remember a single player being knocked out and stretchered off after a hanger had been taken on them.

 

You just have to remember the cardinal football rule: always be second to the ball so you can take out the ball player with a big knee or hands in the back. Umpires look away when ball players suffer these Football Acts.

[DubDee 25,671]

i’m trying to imagine a marking contest with players running and jumping at the ball while their knees are not up, and i can’t imagine it. it’s mechanical. to jump high the knee comes up. can’t see how anyone could implement a rule change around this.

[demosaw 1,016]

I think the only possible rule change regarding collision injury is, if action found negligent/avoidable you miss the same period your victim misses. Initially the period is unknown so the suspension is indefinite. In the Maynard case, if action found negligent/avoidable would only play again after Brayshaw cleared to play, regardless of whether he did or not. This could be harsh but would pretty much eliminate the nasty stuff. There may need to be a maximum period, perhaps 1 year.

[daisycutter 29,604]

1 hour ago, DubDee said:

i’m trying to imagine a marking contest with players running and jumping at the ball while their knees are not up, and i can’t imagine it. it’s mechanical. to jump high the knee comes up. can’t see how anyone could implement a rule change around this.

yes, but there's a big difference between raising the knee and tucking it sideways, versus raising the knee directly out in front of you like a weapon a'la cox

[Young Angus 775]

They were discussing this briefly on SEN this morning.

I don't think anyone thinks Moore is being malicious trying to hurt opponents, but his track record injuring players needs to be looked at and it is his technique that's obviously causing it.  That shouldn't be allowed, I mean he almost killed someone and the numbers are starting to add up that Trac was absolutely NOT an isolated incident.  He is hurting people, intentionally or not but people are getting hurt by this guy and his technique.  

[Monbon 1,840]

On 12/06/2024 at 05:46, Hatchman said:

TL;DR We need to review the rule of contesting the ball in the air, with the perspective of banning hitting players in the back or the back of the head, making it an instant free kick and, if the player gets injured, a reportable offense. 

As a lifelong fan of the game, and a former player in the MPNFL in the 90s, my connection to AFL runs deep. Even after migrating to the USA 4 years ago, I make it a point to watch every game. However, the physical distance has given me a new perspective, allowing me to reflect on the game without the constant AFL noise that used to dominate my life. 

Let me be clear, this is not a post aimed at condemning Moore. As a former player, I understand the strategies and techniques using knees in contest that are part of the game. Bringing your knee up when jumping into a contest was part of our training, a strategy to protect ourselves and to hit the player in front. Ideally, it was to knock them down, and if injury occurred, it was seen as a bonus. 

I have not written this as a knee jerk to the Trac injury that occurred during the game. I know it is a legal move. But now we have a player with broken ribs and internal injuries and it is the second time this has happened this year - the first was Mays injury. While this is bad, the more serious side is the knee in the back of the head, which is still allowed. Hitting anyone in the back of the head is dangerous; with a knee (or elbow/fist) done at speed, it can cause concussion and long-term have all the effects that we are all too familiar with in the loss of Brayshaw. The NFL in the USA banned the use of the knee in aerial contests (say between a Wide Receiver and a defensive player like a Safety) due to the high risk of injury and an illegal attempt to interfere with a legitimate aerial contest.

It is now time for the AFL to reconsider the rules around aerial contests for the ball, including center ball-ups, and ban bringing the knee up to protect players. This change will prolong the careers of ruckmen and also prevent head injuries. In the case of someone standing under a hospital pass getting cleaned up, it should be an instantly reportable offense, given the high risk of serious injury to a player. 

Last point: while I acknowledge some will decry such a rule as "softening" the game and the inevitable death of "the hanger," I would rather see the game evolve (which it has done for 150 years) to protect players and prolong careers. Changing this rule will still allow taking a mark on someone's back; you just cannot hit them with an outstretched knee. You must use your shin, and just like in tackling and bumps, you have a duty of care to your opponent. Do it wrong, and you pay the penalty. 

You have given a  'Footie' perspective to my father's instinctive amazement that using the backs and heads of opponents either to mark or spoil is fundamental thuggery. Yes, he came from a soccer perspective, but he understood that thuggery and sport are not acceptable bedfellows. 

Also, I've been watching UEFA highlights and I am always struck by way the role of the referee. When in doubt, he/she refers a 'dispute' or questionable situation to a third umpire, as now happens in Cricket. The AFL Industry is so far behind - and always has been - on matters to do with personal safety. It took Maynard's assault on Brayshaw to finally face the fact that such acts are life threatening, just as it took decades to stamp out much of the blatant brutality which allowed the likes of Matthews and Dieperdimenico and Brereton and his ilk to rule a football field with an iron fist. 

Things are crook in Talarook...