The Controversial Discussion about the Knee that needs to be had

[Hatchman 539]

TL;DR We need to review the rule of contesting the ball in the air, with the perspective of banning hitting players in the back or the back of the head, making it an instant free kick and, if the player gets injured, a reportable offense. 

As a lifelong fan of the game, and a former player in the MPNFL in the 90s, my connection to AFL runs deep. Even after migrating to the USA 4 years ago, I make it a point to watch every game. However, the physical distance has given me a new perspective, allowing me to reflect on the game without the constant AFL noise that used to dominate my life. 

Let me be clear, this is not a post aimed at condemning Moore. As a former player, I understand the strategies and techniques using knees in contest that are part of the game. Bringing your knee up when jumping into a contest was part of our training, a strategy to protect ourselves and to hit the player in front. Ideally, it was to knock them down, and if injury occurred, it was seen as a bonus. 

I have not written this as a knee jerk to the Trac injury that occurred during the game. I know it is a legal move. But now we have a player with broken ribs and internal injuries and it is the second time this has happened this year - the first was Mays injury. While this is bad, the more serious side is the knee in the back of the head, which is still allowed. Hitting anyone in the back of the head is dangerous; with a knee (or elbow/fist) done at speed, it can cause concussion and long-term have all the effects that we are all too familiar with in the loss of Brayshaw. The NFL in the USA banned the use of the knee in aerial contests (say between a Wide Receiver and a defensive player like a Safety) due to the high risk of injury and an illegal attempt to interfere with a legitimate aerial contest.

It is now time for the AFL to reconsider the rules around aerial contests for the ball, including center ball-ups, and ban bringing the knee up to protect players. This change will prolong the careers of ruckmen and also prevent head injuries. In the case of someone standing under a hospital pass getting cleaned up, it should be an instantly reportable offense, given the high risk of serious injury to a player. 

Last point: while I acknowledge some will decry such a rule as "softening" the game and the inevitable death of "the hanger," I would rather see the game evolve (which it has done for 150 years) to protect players and prolong careers. Changing this rule will still allow taking a mark on someone's back; you just cannot hit them with an outstretched knee. You must use your shin, and just like in tackling and bumps, you have a duty of care to your opponent. Do it wrong, and you pay the penalty. 

[Engorged Onion 10,215]

Tom Lonergan agrees with this post. 

[Redleg 40,834]

That is not a stupid idea.

You can go for a mark without using the knee, as basketballers do when jumping for the ball.

It is something that should be looked at.

[Redleg 40,834]

1 minute ago, Engorged Onion said:

Tom Lonergan agrees with this post. 

So does Sam Newman.

[beelzebub 23,313]

Excellent post...   considered and balanced.

The question within the question in my view goes to motive .  A vexed one without doubt but not all actions are simply "part of the technique"

Gus says hello and thanks

[joeboy 3,163]

I suspect that ‘banning’ the process of knees into the back will eliminate the whole concept of taking a hanger

There’s only a handful of players who have the dexterity to leap above their opponent’s shoulders without including the back for liftoff 

Edited June 11 by joeboy

[bush demon 2,038]

This is a really good discussion, but there are so many vested interests in maintaining "AFL", as a colosseum sport, and there are so many violent aspects to our code that the crowd just bays for. Two things have turned me right off the game. 1. Was the big hit l saw Daniel Bell take a few years back at Casey, the other was the premeditated flattening of Angus Brayshaw last year. Having said that, l don't condone either "bumps" such as Liam Ryan's which knocked Maynard rotten a week or so back. You just have to see how ingrained this ambivalence towards violence is when someone like Hamish Brayshaw forgives the backhander that wiped out his brother.  Because the teams are so even across the competition the niggle and the hit have become points of difference in close games. I just hope that tribunal members and AFL execs. who condone some of these barbaric aspects of our code are one day held personally liable through class actions etc.

Edited June 11 by bush demon
Fix up sp.

[DistrACTION Jackson 8,637]

I really don’t feel any malice towards Moore or Chol, as it is a natural protection measure to lead with the knee. JVR does it consistently and no doubt he will probably break someone’s ribs at some stage in his career.

whether they want to ban it is up to the afl, but it will mean we may never see another speccy mark…

[Superunknown 4,214]

Top post.

Agree with it.

[whatwhat say what 22,696]

unlikely to happen i would say

unfortunately, accidents happen

[Fromgotowoewodin 1,606]

I think it’s inevitable that the knee gets taken out, maybe a while away but it’ll happen. At the moment it’s a legitimate action but there’s too much damage. 

My controversial take is that taking away the ability to use your hands to get on someone’s shoulders means the only way to get up is to hit them at speed with the knee which is more dangerous. Bring back the school yard hands on the shoulders speckie

[demon3165 2,711]

Yeah let's ban stops because the scratch people, what a load of [censored], first question how many of these injuries have there been since the game began over how many games? Seriously what next ban the meat pie because it will burn your mouth, well not at the MCG anyway just leave the game alone.

[Willmoy1947 4,081]

1 hour ago, DistrACTION Jackson said:

I really don’t feel any malice towards Moore or Chol, as it is a natural protection measure to lead with the knee. JVR does it consistently and no doubt he will probably break someone’s ribs at some stage in his career.

whether they want to ban it is up to the afl, but it will mean we may never see another speccy mark…

Yes, but he won't do it intentionally.

[hardtack 10,514]

8 minutes ago, Willmoy1947 said:

Yes, but he won't do it intentionally.

Neither did Moore!

[monoccular 17,413]

4 hours ago, Redleg said:

So does Sam Newman.

And Cristian Petracca 😢. 

Edited June 12 by monoccular

[hemingway 7,615]

4 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Excellent post...   considered and balanced.

The question within the question in my view goes to motive .  A vexed one without doubt but not all actions are simply "part of the technique"

Gus says hello and thanks

Absolutely 

[monoccular 17,413]

And who can forget the “play on” after Max was kneed in the head from behind in a ruck contest by de Konig - can’t remember if it was Geelong or Carlton. 
The absolute  hypocrisy and double standards of the AFL and their “head is sacrosanct” is sickening.  

[DistrACTION Jackson 8,637]

44 minutes ago, hardtack said:

Neither did Moore!

100%. I will never forgive Maynard for what he did and he will have to live with the fact he ended someone's career, as much as he tries to tell himself it was a 'football act'.

But Moore is a fair player and it was just a football accident, which happens from time to time.

Next time we play Collingwood I hope Maynard has to go back in front of JVR and he drives his knee square into his back.

Edited June 12 by DistrACTION Jackson

[roy11 3,836]

22 minutes ago, monoccular said:

And who can forget the “play on” after Max was kneed in the head from behind in a ruck contest by de Konig - can’t remember if it was Geelong or Carlton. 
The absolute  hypocrisy and double standards of the AFL and their “head is sacrosanct” is sickening.  

Geelong.

It's a funny game at times isn't it knee to the back of the head in a ruck contest, nothing to see here

Palm to the face, free kick.

[Fork 'em 6,983]

57 minutes ago, demon3165 said:

Yeah let's ban stops because the scratch people, what a load of [censored], first question how many of these injuries have there been since the game began over how many games? Seriously what next ban the meat pie because it will burn your mouth, well not at the MCG anyway just leave the game alone.

Correct.
I cannot remember a single player being knocked out and stretchered off after a hanger had been taken on them.

 

[demon3165 2,711]

2 hours ago, DistrACTION Jackson said:

100%. I will never forgive Maynard for what he did and he will have to live with the fact he ended someone's career, as much as he tries to tell himself it was a 'football act'.

But Moore is a fair player and it was just a football accident, which happens from time to time.

Next time we play Collingwood I hope Maynard has to go back in front of JVR and he drives his knee square into his back.

Time to grow up and wishing someone hurt is just childish,  as much as it was sad that Gus had to retire he was only one more concussion away last year this year or the following years at least now he can go on to better things in his pursuit of a career of his choosing, Gus is a smart lad.

[Willmoy1947 4,081]

6 hours ago, hardtack said:

Neither did Moore!

By consensus you are wrong.  And what was your opinion on this forum about Brayshaw?

[Fork 'em 6,983]

2 minutes ago, Willmoy1947 said:

By consensus you are wrong.  And what was your opinion on this forum about Brayshaw?

Consensus from a bunch of one-eyed alarmists. 

[hardtack 10,514]

8 minutes ago, Willmoy1947 said:

By consensus you are wrong.  And what was your opinion on this forum about Brayshaw?

By whose ‘consensus’ am I wrong? You’ve already attempted to twist Barrett’s words in another of your posts, so it’s hard to take that comment seriously.

My opinion on the Brayshaw incident has absolutely nothing to do with my opinion on this incident.
 

 

[Sydee 4,379]

6 hours ago, DistrACTION Jackson said:

100%. I will never forgive Maynard for what he did and he will have to live with the fact he ended someone's career, as much as he tries to tell himself it was a 'football act'.

But Moore is a fair player and it was just a football accident, which happens from time to time.

Next time we play Collingwood I hope Maynard has to go back in front of JVR and he drives his knee square into his back.

Unlikely we are a bit too nice at the MFC to do that 

Haven’t seen a physically imposing MFC during a game for a couple of years tbh