POSTGAME: Rd 11 vs St. Kilda

[Fork 'em 6,990]

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

 We aren't designed to produce champagne football.

Aint that a fact.
My beef is that we play dour, unattractive football every week.
A few weeks ago we played the Cats in primetime and neither team kicked a goal in the second qtr.
An advertisers nightmare.
Meanwhile Essendon gets gifted multiple primetime games over the rest of the season.
Coincidence ..... I think not.

Anyway, we've got the best list of my time (tho' Danihers list was pretty good) and we're wasting the opportunity to expand the club by playing boring, unattractive, scrappy football.
Goodwin needs to remember he's in the entertainment business.
For the club to not just wither away we need to entertain "the mob".
Get bums on seats, eyes on TVs, sponsors at the door and keep the Premiership generation kids attention.
And ya don't do that by playing boring footy in primetime games, chocking in finals or embarrassing the club like they did last week.

Edited May 27 by Fork 'em

[loges 6,767]

1 hour ago, Fork 'em said:

Aint that a fact.
My beef is that we play dour, unattractive football every week.
A few weeks ago we played the Cats in primetime and neither team kicked a goal in the second qtr.
An advertisers nightmare.
Meanwhile Essendon gets gifted multiple primetime games over the rest of the season.
Coincidence ..... I think not.

Anyway, we've got the best list of my time (tho' Danihers list was pretty good) and we're wasting the opportunity to expand the club by playing boring, unattractive, scrappy football.
Goodwin needs to remember he's in the entertainment business.
For the club to not just wither away we need to entertain "the mob".
Get bums on seats, eyes on TVs, sponsors at the door and keep the Premiership generation kids attention.
And ya don't do that by playing boring footy in primetime games, chocking in finals or embarrassing the club like they did last week.

Should've watched the third quarter, that wasn't too boring 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,266]

4 hours ago, Fork 'em said:

Aint that a fact.
My beef is that we play dour, unattractive football every week.
A few weeks ago we played the Cats in primetime and neither team kicked a goal in the second qtr.
An advertisers nightmare.
Meanwhile Essendon gets gifted multiple primetime games over the rest of the season.
Coincidence ..... I think not.

Anyway, we've got the best list of my time (tho' Danihers list was pretty good) and we're wasting the opportunity to expand the club by playing boring, unattractive, scrappy football.
Goodwin needs to remember he's in the entertainment business.
For the club to not just wither away we need to entertain "the mob".
Get bums on seats, eyes on TVs, sponsors at the door and keep the Premiership generation kids attention.
And ya don't do that by playing boring footy in primetime games, chocking in finals or embarrassing the club like they did last week.

You'll get shouted down but you are 100% correct. Of course most supporters will take winning ugly than losing in an entertaining game but when people decide if they're going to bother going to games or not the fact it isn't that great a spectacle, more often frustrating than joyous, would definitely play a part.

I don't think it's limited to Goodwin/MFC though, it's a problem for the competition as a whole. Boring footy with little individual brilliance that used to make the game the best on the planet.

[Dee Viney Intervention 1,959]

3 hours ago, loges said:

Should've watched the third quarter, that wasn't too boring 

Absolutely correct. It was great to watch, probably fun to play and very effective. Here is the frustration. Why don’t we play like that more often? Quick ball movement, changing angles, overlap run and options a plenty laterally and ahead of the ball. In other words an attacking mindset. We do have the talent and ability to do so much more often and consistently. Needs to be more accountability around this. 

[old55 23,687]

3 hours ago, loges said:

Should've watched the third quarter, that wasn't too boring 

There wasn’t anything much wrong with the first quarter 4.7 to 1.0.

Yes the second quarter and half the third were a Lyon-induced bus-parking scrap, but the flood gates eventually opened and we dominated.

[rjay 25,062]

5 hours ago, Fork 'em said:

Meanwhile Essendon gets gifted multiple primetime games over the rest of the season.
Coincidence ..... I think not.

No coincidence...EFC have a huge supporter base & they're winning.

They have a poor percentage (bottom 6) so can't be their attractive free flowing footy.

[D Rev 630]

20 hours ago, Dee*ceiving said:

Umpires umpiring Max properly vs Saints, a game we're likely to win anyway, to minimise derision when he get's no sympathy vs Freo and Pies 😏

It was truly unbelievable to see!  Hopefully it wasn't a one-off!

[In Harmes Way 7,823]

21 minutes ago, rjay said:

No coincidence...EFC have a huge supporter base & they're winning.

They have a poor percentage (bottom 6) so can't be their attractive free flowing footy.

Low percentage means the games are close. Theoretically.

[sue 9,126]

6 hours ago, Fork 'em said:

Aint that a fact.
My beef is that we play dour, unattractive football every week.
A few weeks ago we played the Cats in primetime and neither team kicked a goal in the second qtr.
An advertisers nightmare.
 

Whoopee, I'm sure the advertisers and 7 love lots of goals, but I don't.  An endless goalfest can be pretty boring - stops the play a lot for a start. A game can be interesting to watch and full of tension with little scoring.   Soccer fans around the world put up with ridiculously low scoring.

(Too low scoring in my opinion since either there is no winner or a win that doesn't really separate the teams. All they need do is widen the goals a bit to take into account that people are taller than there were in 1870 or whenever).

[Fork 'em 6,990]

13 minutes ago, sue said:

Whoopee, I'm sure the advertisers and 7 love lots of goals, but I don't.  An endless goalfest can be pretty boring - stops the play a lot for a start. A game can be interesting to watch and full of tension with little scoring.   Soccer fans around the world put up with ridiculously low scoring.

(Too low scoring in my opinion since either there is no winner or a win that doesn't really separate the teams. All they need do is widen the goals a bit to take into account that people are taller than there were in 1870 or whenever).

Well 5 yrs from now when you're at Marvel among 20thousand other miserable people on a sunday arvo every week I'll remind you of my beef.
Or maybe not cause they're losing my interest and when Gawn and co. retire and we inevitably fall off the cliff I'll be done.
The game isn't what I loved anymore.

[Demonstone 22,792]

7 hours ago, Fork 'em said:

Goodwin needs to remember he's in the entertainment business.

Goodwin is in the business of winning football matches and, ultimately, premierships.

Afterthought:  If sport is entertainment, why do we have a facility called the Sports AND Entertainment Centre?

[Fork 'em 6,990]

16 minutes ago, Demonstone said:

 Afterthought:  If sport is entertainment, why do we have a facility called the Sports AND Entertainment Centre?

If sport isn't entertainment .... Why do we watch?
The AFL is fighting for the attention of the masses against all other forms of entertainment out there.
And if you have contact with any kids these days you'll notice they have the attention spans of gnats.
Then try keeping one amused through a Melbourne game.

Edited May 27 by Fork 'em

[Deemania since 56 6,714]

1 hour ago, D Rev said:

It was truly unbelievable to see!  Hopefully it wasn't a one-off!

It is probably - and sadly - unbelievable in a consistent form of umpiring (as it was an enormous improvement on what we have come to expect from the snot goblins across several seasons) and you are correct, we certainly hope that it was not a 'one-off'; however, the realist in us tells a different tale - more arbitrary whistle-blowing to come, no doubt. We need to also work on our popularity with the masses for change (for the better) to emerge.

[Fork 'em 6,990]

2 hours ago, rjay said:

No coincidence...EFC have a huge supporter base & they're winning.

And how do you get a huge supporter base?

Not by boring everyone to death that's for sure.

[Demonstone 22,792]

8 minutes ago, Fork 'em said:

If sport isn't entertainment .... Why do we watch?

That's a fair question.

I think it's because sport is more visceral.  We want to see our tribe slay the other tribe.  We want victory.

I'd much rather a "boring" win than an "entertaining" loss.  Winning is everything.

[Demonstone 22,792]

2 minutes ago, Fork 'em said:

And how do you get a huge supporter base?

Not by boring everyone to death that's for sure.

No, you get a huge supporter base by being successful (ie winning games and, particularly, premierships)

[whatwhat say what 22,896]

i don't care if we're boring, as long as we win

as someone at a club said to me recently, "you don't have to play well to win"

[At Least I Saw a Flag 5,272]

15 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

i don't care if we're boring, as long as we win

as someone at a club said to me recently, "you don't have to play well to win"

Saints are a basket case. Play boring football and still lose miserably.

[titan_uranus 25,040]

44 minutes ago, Fork 'em said:

If sport isn't entertainment .... Why do we watch?

By all means, don’t switch on St Kilda vs Fremantle if you think it won’t be entertaining. 

But I’d argue that for us, this attitude shouldn’t apply. 

[Clintosaurus 7,858]

Sports entertainment = wrestling = scripted. Some would say the AFL is already there.

[dpositive 1,672]

8 hours ago, Fork 'em said:

Aint that a fact.
My beef is that we play dour, unattractive football every week.
A few weeks ago we played the Cats in primetime and neither team kicked a goal in the second qtr.
An advertisers nightmare.
Meanwhile Essendon gets gifted multiple primetime games over the rest of the season.
Coincidence ..... I think not.

Anyway, we've got the best list of my time (tho' Danihers list was pretty good) and we're wasting the opportunity to expand the club by playing boring, unattractive, scrappy football.
Goodwin needs to remember he's in the entertainment business.
For the club to not just wither away we need to entertain "the mob".
Get bums on seats, eyes on TVs, sponsors at the door and keep the Premiership generation kids attention.
And ya don't do that by playing boring footy in primetime games, chocking in finals or embarrassing the club like they did last week.

When we win the flag with a combination of dour, effective and strong defence and a burst of bang, bang, bang, inspired all out attack (chaos ball) we wil, win the fans back. This strategy is dependent upon controlling the surges.

Most important is not falling too far behind that the burst has to be sustained too long.

This style can also provide the tension and entertainment that the AFL is wanting. Close games are appreciated by opposition fans and so builds the TV audience while also encouraging opposition fans to attend. Dull and boring can be effective in building support for the game, if combined with close results. Winning builds support for our team.

[Dee*ceiving 1,690]

1 hour ago, Fork 'em said:

Well 5 yrs from now when you're at Marvel among 20thousand other miserable people on a sunday arvo every week I'll remind you of my beef.
Or maybe not cause they're losing my interest and when Gawn and co. retire and we inevitably fall off the cliff I'll be done.
The game isn't what I loved anymore.

That's sad Fork! As we get older, lamenting the current to be as not as good as the past is a fact of life.

If you once loved something that you don't love anymore you should let it go. You will probably feel better afterwards. Unless it's your life partner, in which case you should check your superannuation and enquire thoughtfully about the financial implications elsewise it's possible you'll feel much worse!

2 minutes ago, Clintosaurus said:

Sports entertainment = wrestling = scripted. Some would say the AFL is already there.

Was there a long time ago Clint...At least the WWE have the decency to admit it. 

[dpositive 1,672]

3 hours ago, Dee Viney Intervention said:

Absolutely correct. It was great to watch, probably fun to play and very effective. Here is the frustration. Why don’t we play like that more often? Quick ball movement, changing angles, overlap run and options a plenty laterally and ahead of the ball. In other words an attacking mindset. We do have the talent and ability to do so much more often and consistently. Needs to be more accountability around this. 

if we did that we would be unstoppable and boring winning by so much. The AFL does not want blowouts. It needs close results. Results can be manufactured as has been shown with recent umpiring standards. We need to be the favoured side.

[DeeSpencer 26,069]

8 hours ago, Fork 'em said:

My beef is that we play dour, unattractive football every week.

We really don't. We are defensively sound and short on forward half and midfield talent but we are taking the game on far more than the last 2 years and there's times that it's working very well. This is the modern AFL, no team is letting the other side score 15 goals out of goodwill.

8 hours ago, Fork 'em said:

A few weeks ago we played the Cats in primetime and neither team kicked a goal in the second qtr.
An advertisers nightmare.

I don't care about the advertisers. Geelong parked their backline and freed up Tom Stewart as they always do. We were exceptionally drilled to stop their counter ball movement. Sure it was a chore for neutrals but with every Geelong supporter groaning in the crowd about how poor they were playing my enjoyment multiplied. They haven't won a game since.

8 hours ago, Fork 'em said:

Meanwhile Essendon gets gifted multiple primetime games over the rest of the season.
Coincidence ..... I think not.

Essendon are 2nd on the ladder after not winning a final in yonks. Of course they'll get a heap of prime time games. No one has had more prime time games since 2021 than us. We've played in just about every third Thursday game! I'm pretty sure we've been the most watched TV side in that period of time. And I couldn't care less about that or Essendon.

8 hours ago, Fork 'em said:

Anyway, we've got the best list of my time (tho' Danihers list was pretty good) and we're wasting the opportunity to expand the club by playing boring, unattractive, scrappy football.

Expanding the club comes primarily from winning. Our list isn't as good as 2021 and we lack dynamic mids and key forwards. The backline this year has adjusted. You can say it took too long to adjust but no one was hoping for more than some tweaks in 2022 and I was right at the front of asking for adjustments last year but they weren't going to change too much when they were positioned to finish top 4 and a genuine chance to knock off Collingwood. 

8 hours ago, Fork 'em said:

Goodwin needs to remember he's in the entertainment business.
For the club to not just wither away we need to entertain "the mob".
Get bums on seats, eyes on TVs, sponsors at the door and keep the Premiership generation kids attention.
And ya don't do that by playing boring footy in primetime games, chocking in finals or embarrassing the club like they did last week.

Goodwin's in the coaching business. There's plenty of people in the AFL, MFC and tv networks to dress it up as entertainment. At no stage in his coaching career has Goody prioritised slow ball movement. Every training session I've ever seen  he's pushing move the ball. Forward and fast. The team fell in to some bad habits going boundary too often but the plan was never to chip it around not score.

Embarrassing the club last week? They lost to a pretty good home Eagles team that were right at the top of their game and set themselves for a win. It was a disappointing performance but one of the main issues was playing too risky with the ball and some of the new players bought in for their supposed attacking prowess (Billings, Howes) failed.

We need to continue to evolve the playing list and game plan with a focus on more dynamic attacking footy to get back to 2021, but the last thing we should do is put spectacle before team performance. Many of the Daniher years were fun and we had some success but we almost never were a match for the proper big boy teams of various years because so often we weren't a serious defensive and contest based team.

I'd like to see us break teams open in the first half and score 100 consistently but I'd be just as happy to win games with a more defensive brand if we bring back some physical aggression and add a more menacing side to our game than we have had the last year or so.

[Willmoy1947 4,140]

3 hours ago, In Harmes Way said:

Low percentage means the games are close. Theoretically.

Except when you get favours like marks and free kicks at crucial stages in your forward line.