POSTGAME: Rd 01 vs Western Bulldogs

[binman 43,753]

2 hours ago, jnrmac said:

The revisionism is that you were trying to make it sound like Goodwin reinvented the game and was prepared to trade a bona fide star Hogan for May and Lever.

Blind Freddy could see we needed two rock solid defenders as defence wins flags. OMac and Frost were the worst in the league at stopping goals so it was hardly a revelation.

You've well and truly misunderstood me jnr. 

To be clear my point was Goody deserves a lot more credit for his tactical innovations than he gets. Full stop. 

As an example, as i said, whilst he didn't invent the all team defensive zone or the use of the zone off, third man intercepting defender (Hardwick deserves credit here) he has absolutely perfected the model. 

As i noted, he began working on it way back in 2016. The model is now the gold standard defensive system in the AFL.

The proof is in the pudding - we have had the best defence for at least three season now. On the back of that we have won a flag and made top 4 three years in succession.

Teams like the Port and the Dogs who have not developed something similar are going nowhere.

The Lions might be the exception to prove the rule, but the fact remains they are yet to win a flag under Fagan. 

In addition to implementing a defensive system with key similarities to ours (with Moore playing the Lever role), albeit a more aggressive one, the Pies developed a ball movement method that was specifically designed to break down our defensive system, such is its brutal effectiveness, through fast ball movement. 

The Giants defensive system is almost a carbon copy of ours, and the Swans and saints employ very similar systems too. Ditto Freo and Blues.

For the sake of argument, let's say you are right that 'blind freddy' could see that we needed better key defenders than Frost and Omac.

How does that change the fact that Goody developed a sophisticated defensive system that has become the AFL template for defensive systems?

Bringing in may and Lever would have changed little if they were not the cornerstone of the defensive system he was developing and implementing.

Port brought in Alir, who is a star as it was obvious to Freddy they needed to do something about their defence. And he is a brilliant interceptor - perhaps the best in the AFL.

But Port haven't implemented a sophisticated defensive system as evidenced by their woeful points against record under Hinkley. And so Alir hasn't moved the needle on their defensive issues. 

And if it was just about bringing in elite defenders, then Lever was not the player to target as he is average one on one. Tomlinson would have been a better target back then if all we needed were better key defenders.

Again, many posters one here and plenty of media types knocked the dees at the time for spending so much capital on Lever given he was 'just an interceptor'. Plenty would have preferred we chased a gun forward. Or a pure lock down key defender. 

At that point only the Crows, tigers and dees had a specialist intercepting defenders, now every team does.   

Blind Freddy could also see the dogs needed to focus on sorting out their defensive system from 2018 and go out and target some elite defenders.

But what have they done? Turn Naughton from a CHB into a KPF, draft JUH and Darcy and trade in Lobb.

What have they done about their woeful defence?

Well they finally got a interceptor in  - Jones, a good player, but he's undersized and 33. Genius. 

So Blind Freddy might be able to point out decent players that could be replaced by even better, AA players, but Freddy seemingly ain't so good at seeing massive issues with team's game plans and methods.

Edited March 18 by binman

[SthSea22 637]

9 minutes ago, In Harmes Way said:

I know you come from the old school of "he doesn't play for us anymore", but I for one (goes with my username) was happy to see him getting a kick and continuing his career - I think we got the best from him, and moved him on at the right time. His kick to hit up fritta in the grand final was not only the best kick I ever saw, it was the start of a massive turnaround in that grand final.

Not going to knock his time with us at the Dees at all

Like i said, i loved seeing May smash him 

I agree that we got the best out of him and the Dogs don't have that 2021 version we had. 

Harmes ad only 3 kicks on Sunday which confirms we made the right choice by letting him walk 

[sue 9,141]

30 minutes ago, BoBo said:

Someone mentioned on Demonland that the increase in score reviews is being said to be related to advertising time. Well David King on SEN basically said the same. He has a suspicion that advertising is playing a part (as well as goal umpires seemingly being afraid to back themselves in)
 

I wonder if the memo to goal umpires has been something like: ‘if there’s even 0.0001% doubt, go to score review’

The AFL just does things to garner as much interest as possible.  For example, if the question is, did the ball touch the post, why do they look at endlessly at often useless views before they reveal the result of the 'snickometer' (or whatever they call it).  Surely you'd do that first.

[Red But Mostly Blue 4,547]

Harmes just copped a 1-week ban for headbutting May
 

https://www.afl.com.au/news/1089969/match-review-new-dog-learns-fate-for-headbutt-no1-pick-fined

[Antioch 232]

19 hours ago, DiscoStu17 said:

They didn’t show it live, but did show it after the game. Possibly during the Max and Clarrie interview.

Ok

[DeeSpencer 26,080]

55 minutes ago, binman said:

You've well and truly misunderstood me jnr. 

To be clear my point was Goody deserves a lot more credit for his tactical innovations than he gets. Full stop. 

As an example, as i said, whilst he didn't invent the all team defensive zone or the use of the zone off, third man intercepting defender (Hardwick deserves credit here) he has absolutely perfected the model. 

As i noted, he began working on it way back in 2016. The model is now the gold standard defensive system in the AFL.

I don't agree with all of this. It was Luke Beveridge as the Hawks backline coach in 2012-2014 who really bought the zone defending in as a style. Josh Gibson was a huge part of it.

But Goody saw it fairly early and one of the signature games was round 23 2015 where I'm convinced Roosy gave him the reigns against GWS at Docklands in front of less than 9000 people. Mitch White debut and are backline just changed it up after 2 years of Roos ball.

2016 when Goody had the reigns and it was all out attacking zone. The Dogs won the flag with it that year. Then 19/20 Chaplin really started tinkering with less all out zone and a more sophisticated mixture of covering off whilst still intercepting up the ground at times.

Bevo now can't seem to find the right balance and mix, but he also doesn't have the cattle down back. Alex Keath was a very good player who then had his body break down. Ryan Gardner injured a lot. Cordy fell off. They've draft a young player for the future in Busslinger, they've had little choice but to take Darcy, JUH, Croft. In the same way that we haven't fixed out forward line they haven't fixed their key defenders, that's the reality of how hard it is to assemble elite talls in their prime and keep them healthy and well supported with depth.

Goody, who led the league in scoring in 2018, can't find the right mix up forward when we don't have capable talls fit and available. Can Goody suddenly not coach attack? Or is it the forwards are often ordinary and we prioritised midfield bulls and have struggled to recruit the balance without losing the strength.

Tactics are important, but there's too many good coaches across the league looking for holes and prodding at weaknesses. Fitness, health, talent acquisition and development of young players, all of which the head coach has some responsibility for are all vital.

[melborn4vr 13]

Good win by the team yesterday.

Thanks to Libba  jnr for stirring up Max after his errant handball in the first quarter attempting to keep the ball in play in the Doggies forward pocket.

Great goals by Nibbler. He’s our gut runner.

Hope BBB’s knee stands up for the season.

Windsor has been likened to the great Petal Flower- at this stage perhaps over optimistic. But, his pace and run and smarts do draw comparison with Stan Alves.

McVee recalls Alan Johnson with his skills.

Trent Rivers continues to improve, and I agree may have a role higher up the ground.

Clayton seems to me to require to just be playing football to keep his mind off possible outside influences. Long term injury was difficult for him last year.

Look forward to next week’s effort against the Hawks.

 

 

Edited March 18 by melborn4vr

[Jaded No More 68,973]

1 hour ago, melborn4vr said:

Good win by the team yesterday.

Thanks to Libba  jnr for stirring up Max after his errant handball in the first quarter attempting to keep the ball in play in the Doggies forward pocket.

 

These Dogs have short memories. They obviously forgot what happened the last time they messed with Gawn

[DEE fence 5,039]

Rent Free

I have a different take on Naughton's poor game, we have traumatised the frogs to the point that they don't want to go near May.

And does the Harmes headbutt really go into the team-mates that have whacked May file? I really liked the way they had a laugh at the end of the game. To my mind it was insufficient force and May should say as much. It was more of a push with the head as Harmes' arms were restrained by May.

[CHF 2,768]

A pleasing response by the club against the Doggies after the game in Sydney. It was a  club wide response lead by the coaches and the selectors, the players as individuals and the team response. 

The reaction of the coaches to the first 10 mins of the game where the doggies came out firing was quick and decisive. They worked out what the doggies forwards were doing, adjusted the matchups and the positional play and the results were immediate. very good to see.

Defence.

I was one that doubted the decision to drop Tomlinson for Tmac. The decision worked out well with Tmac doing his job well. The rest of the defensive make up worked very well led by May in his '[censored] off' mode. Howe and Hore worked well as did McVee and Rivers. The defence has skill, structure and personnel depth that makes it a great rock to build on. 

The success of the defence on Sunday was also partly the result of  all team pressure that was brought to bear all over the ground. I loved the pressure on the ball and also off the ball on the next kick/receive. An excellent game in defence.

Midfield.

Nothing to complain about in this area of the team. Petracca, Oliver, Viney and Salem as our main men in there at the feet of Max. It is a daunting task for the opposition midfield to line up against. The rotations and mixes that we can run through there must be a nightmare to coach and play against. Sparrow, who did not really get a run on the ball on Sunday, Pickett, ANB and Rivers all offer differences when used at stoppages. Langdon and Windsor on the wings look to be in form and I loved the run down by Windsor. Chop out for Max by JVR worked as well as expected. The midfield is now purring along as is the Defence.

Forwards.

I have said a few times that I will not write off any player on our list. I loved seeing Brown out there doing 'Brown' things. He is such a valuable addition to the team and the forward structure. He not only popped through a couple of goals but he also allowed JVR to have a bit more freedom to move and position himself in better places. The structure of the forward line also helped to bring the smaller forwards into the game. It did help that the positional play of the smaller forwards was a hell of a lot better than last week with Chandler in particular working hard at the drop of the ball at the contest. The other ting I enjoyed watching the forwards was the application they brought to defending the forward 50. 

I expect the same team to line up against the Hawks as played against the Doggies [censored] long as they have all pulled up ok.  Might be temped to brin in Sestan or The Kolt as sub to give Taj a full VFL game.

Next up is Hawthorn at the G. would like to see the team carry on where they left off against the Doggies. An all team performance with pressure and decisiveness on the turnover. I look at this as a fairly critical game with some tough travel and games in the next three rounds with a trip to Adelaide to play both Port and Adelaide with just a 5 day break between the two followed by Brisbane at the G a week later. A big ask of the team. A couple of good things re the Brisbane game is that they will have one less day to prepare and will be travelling back to Melbourne after their game in Adelaide.

Go Dees

 

[DEE32 99]

Probably been said earlier but just wanted to send some kudos to Billing’s. For a guy rated lowly for his defence was solid across the half back line, with some telling tackles and defensive acts especially later in the game. I was really impressed with his game! Well done Jack Billings.

[#11-TonyAnderson 822]

7 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

PSA for commentators 

His name is KADE Chandler not Kyle!

Likewise Jared Rivers hasn’t played for Melbourne in 10 years. Trent on the other hand…

 

And as for the Race caller bloke calling Frittata: ‘Fritz’- drove me nuts!

[Brownie 5,986]

7 minutes ago, #11-TonyAnderson said:

And as for the Race caller bloke calling Frittata: ‘Fritz’- drove me nuts!

Even Hudson was doing it by the end of the game.

Surely someone on that stupidly expansive commentary team could have a quiet word to them to correct it.

I thought he did a pretty good job of just calling the game as he saw it though.

Unlike [censored] like Huddo and BT who have to start shouting like they've had their cruits grabbed just because someone flew for a mark or kicked a point.

God I miss Dennis Cometti and Drew Morphett.

Gimme more race callers and less shouting pillocks

[Guest]

5 hours ago, SthSea22 said:

Loved seeing May smash Harmes

Why?

[monoccular 17,573]

22 hours ago, Boots and all said:

I have concerns about BBB being able to play many back to back games. Hopefully the club and Ben carefully manage his load. He doesn't need to play every game and I would be very comfortable if the club rested him regularly through 2024.

I wonder if Petty's "quiet game" in VFL combined with BBB's good game makes selection easier this week.  Even if BBB has a "just reasonable" game this week and Petty shows decent form then BBB gets a rest and Petty goes to Adelaide. 

21 hours ago, kev martin said:

The strange one was when a review was called when the ball was still in play. TMac was over the ball and got collected in the back of his head, as a review was called for a point, but the ball didn't cross the line. They then balled it up at the top of the goal square. Such an advantage to the attacking team, as they set for the stoppage and set to hold the ball in the area. Just pressures the defensive side.  A really unbalanced call. AFL need to let it play until a stoppage occurs and then call the review, though that is also fraught with problems. Maybe review as the play continues..

Is that a new rule?  The ball was in the outer ⅓ of the behind space, yet it was balled up in the midline?

Did the umpire not call high contact on McDonald because he thought it out of play, or because he doesn't know the rules?  Maybe both.

[kev martin 10,409]

13 minutes ago, monoccular said:

Did the umpire not call high contact on McDonald because he thought it out of play

It's a good chance that is what happened. Goalie just took some time to get the Umps attention, in order to ask for a review. 

Still, tough place to restart the game for the defenders (at the top of goal square). Take it out to top of the 50 arc.

Edited March 18 by kev martin

[pitmaster 3,578]

13 hours ago, Brownie said:

And, both Hill and Hudson are back on the Fritz train. It drives me a bit mad.

They don't say "cricket pitz" why do they keep saying Bailey Fritz?

Maybe they thought his kicking was on the fritz.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,288]

6 hours ago, BoBo said:

Someone mentioned on Demonland that the increase in score reviews is being said to be related to advertising time. Well David King on SEN basically said the same. He has a suspicion that advertising is playing a part (as well as goal umpires seemingly being afraid to back themselves in)
 

I wonder if the memo to goal umpires has been something like: ‘if there’s even 0.0001% doubt, go to score review’

No ads, siren to siren - except for the crypto ads during the 4 score reviews each quarter 😉

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

7 hours ago, SthSea22 said:

Loved seeing May smash Harmes

Yeh.... nah.

What was that all about anyway?

Two former premiership comrades and Demon immortals.

By all means play hard uncompromising footy but this felt like May was on some sort of vendetta and out to prove a point.

Did Harmes tick him off earlier in the match or something?

[binman 43,753]

54 minutes ago, pitmaster said:

Maybe they thought his kicking was on the fritz.

They would have been right.

[At Least I Saw a Flag 5,274]

Random comments alert!!

I was only at the match for the second half. 

Never seen the Demons tackle better. 5 holding the ball decisions our way in a half of football, and a couple of others that should have been paid.

I thought that the Bulldogs kicking for goal was terrible. They missed chances when the game was in the balance. Hmm, seemed familiar?

I was sitting in the MCC members section. There were a few Bulldogs fans ... they behaved well. (cf. certain other teams' supporters!!) They did however pay out on a few of their players ... especially Naughton. 

Like all others here, I was thrilled with Clarry's performance. And was happy to participate in the standing ovation he received in Q4.

Very important win. 

 

[titan_uranus 25,043]

I've now been able to watch the entire replay.

I felt our defensive structure was just so good and was the catalyst for the win. They had plenty of reasonably good looks only to find May, Lever, Howes, TMac and Hore impassable. Their forward line is talented and is going to rip other sides apart at various points this year so holding them as well as we did, particularly in the middle two quarters, was excellent.

We clearly moved the ball differently to 2022-23, too. The marks figure shows that, but there were a number of times players took marks, looked to reset, but then changed tack and played on instead. Most of the time it worked. And it felt like we kept out forwards deeper and didn't have them all pressing too high up the ground. 

I loved Billings' game. Yes, it wasn't full of contested ball. I don't think it needs to be. His gut running to create options and his (generally) good kicking is a missing part of our transition play. 

Brown did everything he would have been asked and on a better day would have kicked all 4 of his shots. We kicked goals at least twice due to him making up ground on his opponent to bring the ball to ground in a marking contest and his mobility was as good as it's ever been. As I've said a number of times though, the test with him is whether he can do it for multiple weeks/months in a row but we clearly have an option that many thought we didn't have with him.

[titan_uranus 25,043]

The other promising thing was kicking 100+ with Fritsch being blanketed most of the day (he should have kicked at least two goals from the shots he did get though, but he was otherwise well beaten by Jones).

[Supreme_Demon 3,899]

Was a good solid win by the Demons over the Bulldogs.

Thought that Jack Billings was great.

Kozzie was mercurial.

Clarrie was fantastic. He really is an incredible player. Glad to have him back! 😊

Many more I could mention too.

Overall, it was a great team performance.

My only suggestion is for Fritta to lose the pink boots! If you're gonna stand out with fancy football boots then they need to be GOLD! 😁

 

Edited March 18 by Supreme_Demon

[Demonland 73,140]

For @binman NSFW (from 59 secs)