On 26/01/2024 at 12:59, Macca said:

Yes, but injuries intervened and none of us could have foretold that.  No one

And it can work the other way too

What if Dunstan & Melksham were contracted this year on reasonable money?  

I think we could have reasonably foretold that injury hampered last few years of the contracts of BBB and T Mac were reasonablely likely, given their recent history of injuries and age prior to them signing the contracts they did with us.

Still I think they have both been good value for the club for many of the reasons already discussed.  Even just having both of BBB, T Mac and Melksham around to play 6 - 10 games per year over the past couple of seasons has ment we've had some big bodies support for JVR etc, so we can develop them and play them when they're ready, not throw them against men too early.

Edited January 29, 20241 yr by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

1 minute ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

I think we could have reasonably foretold that injury hampered last few years of the contracts of BBB and T Mac were reasonablely likely, given their recent history of injuries and age prior to them signing the contracts they did with us.

No one was foretelling that both Brown & T-Mac would end up with chronic ailments that would mean that both would miss heaps of games

Certainly not when we signed Brown nor when we extended T-Mac's contract 

It simply did not happen

After the fact, yes.  But not beforehand

As previously stated, no one can use hindsight to justify a stance.  It's like the draft revisionists.  The shouda, couda, wouda people

But if you or anyone else can point to where there was strong opposition to signing Brown & extending T-Mac's contract, I'd like to see it

Besides which, even if you do happen to find such a person the chances are that they've got a 100 things wrong as well. 

Even a broken clock is right twice a day

Certainly, the majority thinking here was happy with both decisions with Brown & T-Mac

What it is really all about is that many here love to moan.  So give these types any opportunity to have a whinge and they'll be all over it.  It's their speciality (whinging) 

16 hours ago, Jeremy said:

As if the Roos could care in hindsight that they traded Ben Brown, we're lucky he played three weeks of good footy in September 21' otherwise you'd have to say the trade's been a bust for us not them 

Ben Brown's switch has been good for both clubs and the player, too. North knew they were not going to be genuine contenders and wanted to refresh their list; Brown was a bit of the jigsaw puzzle that helped us win a flag. Would we have won the Premiership in 2021 if he hadn't been playing with us? Maybe...but you could say that about most players at any club in any year.

Even though it feels like it's the end for BBB, he technically should be available for Casey for the VFL season opener, and if all goes well, AFL selection by say round 4/Gather Round.

That's if Richo's 6-8 week recovery is on the money.

 

1 hour ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Even though it feels like it's the end for BBB, he technically should be available for Casey for the VFL season opener, and if all goes well, AFL selection by say round 4/Gather Round.

That's if Richo's 6-8 week recovery is on the money.

 

with his history there is no way they will rush his return. in fact, quite the opposite.

21 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

with his history there is no way they will rush his return. in fact, quite the opposite.

History will also show that he's never returned right on the expected due date just with the ongoing knee issues he's had.

This will drag out further and then he'll need at least 4-6 weeks of solid VFL footy before he's in AFL frame especially if Petty and JVR are playing solid footy together, considering they're also in best 22 whereas Ben isn't.

Thinking around mid year before we see Ben's name come into AFL selection consideration. 

The BBB posts feels like an endless repeat of Groundhog Day.

Every few weeks someone moans about why he didn't retire then someone responds about you have to honour contracts & finally it concludes with the merits of his time at the Dees & value for money.

7 minutes ago, Cranky Franky said:

The BBB posts feels like an endless repeat of Groundhog Day.

Every few weeks someone moans about why he didn't retire then someone responds about you have to honour contracts & finally it concludes with the merits of his time at the Dees & value for money.

In fact, you could replace "BBB" with any one of a number of players..

31 minutes ago, Cranky Franky said:

The BBB posts feels like an endless repeat of Groundhog Day.

Every few weeks someone moans about why he didn't retire then someone responds about you have to honour contracts & finally it concludes with the merits of his time at the Dees & value for money.

The other aspect is the frustration with a player who gets injured or gets injured a lot to a point where a player becomes injury prone

But a contract is a contract and these days (with the input of the players association & the CBA) those contracts are mostly watertight

The thinking in the future might be that a veteran player is earmarked for a limited amount of games.  Especially if there becomes a need for bigger lists

For instance, the MC would not be expecting Brown & T-Mac to play 26 games in the seniors.  However, the MC would have high hopes that Petracca & Viney both play 26 games

Edited January 30, 20241 yr by Macca

19 hours ago, Rab D Nesbitt said:

Very much so PF. There were also rumours that they found his wife Hester to be hard work but she seems to be as altruistic as Ben so you'd have to wonder at their accuracy. That said, that hub brought out the best and worst of people.  

Well, North have done everything they can to hold onto Tarryn Thomas so either Hester must be really wild or the Kangaroos just might have some very subtle cultural issues.

Just reflecting some more on Brown's contribution to the MFC, because I don't like that a few people are playing it down;

After returning froma  long injury layoff, Brown kicked 20 goals from round 18 through to the Grand Final in 2021. In that period Fritsch also added an entire goal per game to his tally compared to the rest of the season. Pickett also overcame a mid-season slump in exact coincidence with Brown coming back.

Fact is, Ben Brown provided a crucial piece of structure that completed our forward line and he played a vital part in the premiership run.

6 to 8 Weeks

8 Weeks from now takes us to Round 2 (our 3rd match)

put bb on long term never to realistically wear the jumper again list. Maybe ex Swans ruckman , 32 year old Tom Hickey is keen on a keep fit, year as Max's back up? 

That’s relatively good news on Tom Fullarton dodged a bullet there.😁

21 hours ago, Macca said:

No one was foretelling that both Brown & T-Mac would end up with chronic ailments that would mean that both would miss heaps of games

Certainly not when we signed Brown nor when we extended T-Mac's contract 

It simply did not happen

After the fact, yes.  But not beforehand

As previously stated, no one can use hindsight to justify a stance.  It's like the draft revisionists.  The shouda, couda, wouda people

But if you or anyone else can point to where there was strong opposition to signing Brown & extending T-Mac's contract, I'd like to see it

Besides which, even if you do happen to find such a person the chances are that they've got a 100 things wrong as well. 

Even a broken clock is right twice a day

Certainly, the majority thinking here was happy with both decisions with Brown & T-Mac

What it is really all about is that many here love to moan.  So give these types any opportunity to have a whinge and they'll be all over it.  It's their speciality (whinging) 

Just to be clear Macca, I'm not moaning or saying that there were pleanty that foretold this scenario at the time, just saying that at their age with recent injury history at the time, it wouldn't be unreasonable or unrealistic to anticipate that they would become more injury prone in the twilight of their respective careers.

It was a risk I think the club took with a realistic view of the potential outcomes.  We might have ended up with something on the worst end of those outcomes for both players to have had injury struggles the last few years, but that how it goes.

Both were significant onfield contributors to our 2021 flag, with the roles they played that season IMHO and likewise in the subsequent seasons through lesser onfield roles and probably greater off field roles as mentors, team values etc.  I personally view us as winners to date through the contracts we signed them to and the story isn't finished yet either.

1 hour ago, DeeZone said:

That’s relatively good news on Tom Fullarton dodged a bullet there.😁

Yeah. It could have been much worse. They could have said he was out for 4 to 6 weeks!

Not strictly footy related but whilst we're discussing BBB here's a link to the quirky house reno he had completed recently that popped up on the Green Magazine insta feed. Not sure if the polished concrete floors would be good for that dodgy knee of his. 

https://www.kuzman.com/kiddy-kitty-court-house

 

1 hour ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Just to be clear Macca, I'm not moaning or saying that there were pleanty that foretold this scenario at the time, just saying that at their age with recent injury history at the time, it wouldn't be unreasonable or unrealistic to anticipate that they would become more injury prone in the twilight of their respective careers.

Maybe but the point I'm making (again) was that there was zero outcry at the time.  Of course, we've now got new information but that info was not visible 4 years ago.  Brown & T-Mac were running on top of the ground in 2021 so there were no alarm bells

The chronic injuries came later

But every part of recruiting is a risk, some high, some low

For instance, swapping draft picks for known talent (at the highest level) carries with it a risk that those players can maybe not come up to expectations.  Or they can shine

In the last 10 years we've swapped draft picks for Lewis, Brown, May, Lever, Hunter, Langdon, Vince, Melksham, Billings, McAdam, Tomlinson, Hibberd etc etc and most have paid off.  Not all, but most

We've also drafted a stack of youngsters in the last 15 years ... Scully, Petracca, Trengove, Oliver, Morton, Hogan, Brayshaw,  Watts,  Salem, Kozzie, Gysberts, Weideman, Toumpas* & Jackson were all top 5 or top 12 picks

And the results are all over the place

So the focus on Brown & T-Mac is a small-picture argument.  If we broaden the argument, there are hit and miss stories left, right & centre

You're not going to get everything right as we don't live in a perfect world.  Nor are we going to get everything wrong

But overriding all that is that our Head of recruiting, Jason Taylor, is one of the best in the business and he would have had a big say in the recruiting of Brown. And given his strike rate, we may have thought that Weideman and/or Hogan* would be power forwards for us right now but alas, you can't win them all

From an overall perspective, there's been a lot more hits than misses in the last 10 years so we're punching above our weight.  The 5 or 6 years prior to that 10 year stretch was abysmal and was the stuff of nightmares

 

*Jason Taylor wasn't 'officially' with us for the 2012 draft but I'd be astonished if a few phone calls weren't made for his opinion on the worth of Hogan & Toumpas

And of course, Jason Taylor is with us on the back of the Mark Neeld recommendation.  What a sliding doors moment that was

Edited January 30, 20241 yr by Macca

6 minutes ago, Macca said:

*Jason Taylor wasn't 'officially' with us for the 2012 draft but I'd be astonished if a few phone calls weren't made for his opinion on the worth of Hogan & Toumpas

Hairy job interview Q

Think I'll do myself a favour and stay away from this thread.

Ignorance really is bliss.

On 29/01/2024 at 09:40, Jeremy said:

As if the Roos could care in hindsight that they traded Ben Brown, we're lucky he played three weeks of good footy in September 21' otherwise you'd have to say the trade's been a bust for us not them 

Yeah if only we'd traded 26 & 33 for Jayden Stephenson and Atu Bosuvenagi like North did, or taken them to the draft and got Corey Durdin and Fraser Rosman a pick earlier.

 

Edited January 30, 20241 yr by John Demonic

4 hours ago, Demonland said:

6 to 8 Weeks

8 Weeks from now takes us to Round 2 (our 3rd match)

Not a bad result considering early reports.

1 hour ago, Rab D Nesbitt said:

Not strictly footy related but whilst we're discussing BBB here's a link to the quirky house reno he had completed recently that popped up on the Green Magazine insta feed. Not sure if the polished concrete floors would be good for that dodgy knee of his. 

https://www.kuzman.com/kiddy-kitty-court-house

 

The question of course is whether the house is still 'north facing'!

 

Richo’s straight from the horse’s mouth injury and recovery report. Provides a fair bit of illumination about where a number of blokes are positioned relative to the start of the season.

It should also debunk some of the prophet of doom speculation which has propensity to be trumped about on DL. Credit where credit is due, as the season proper approaches the club has upped the ante on keeping supporters informed. 

My prediction is that Melksham will be back for the North game in round 15 or Brisbane game in round 16.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/1074815/brisbane-lions-tom-doedee-on-track-to-return-from-acl-injury-as-early-as-round-three-against-collingwood

Using Tom Doedee (Brisbane defender) as an example above, he's targeting the final weekend of March as his return AFL game since doing his ACL in early June 2023. Essentially 10 months.

Melksham did his knee in late August 2023. If you use Doedee's recovery time as an example, that puts Jake in the frame for a mid-late June AFL return. To add to that, I don't believe they'll be conservative with his recovery time due to his age, it might be his last chance at a flag and our forward line functions better to far better when he's in the side.