Cool light of day

[Sir Why You Little 37,034]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

But someone said Yze takes the reigns on Matchday? I'm confused 🤔

Senior Coach always has the Final say…

[dino rover 714]

On 9/16/2023 at 8:11 AM, pitmaster said:

. But we can build a forward line out of Petty, JvR, Smith and a fit Fritter who I reckon was seriously underdone for the finals.

I don’t want to patch together a fwd line

we should aim higher

 

[Spargonicus 539]

2 hours ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Again.... if the ball goes through the goals and does NOT touch either post (as per the Arc) the option of "i think it was a point but i just need to check" should be taken away from the goal umpire.

The only option is "i'm unsure i just need to check it wasn't touched or hit the post".

That is.... the default us always a goal unless the technology proves conclusively that it WAS touchex or hit the post.

The alternative means that any genuine goal is in danger of being called a point purely because the goal umpire said he is "unsure" (or even unsighted!)

Yes.

[640MD 3,375]

You’re forgetting that there are sponsors of the goal line review that need to get the image on fox and 7.  And those needs come first.

[beelzebub 23,359]

For those that have not already done so I highly recommend, ne implore you to read @george_on_the_outer report "Learning or Burnings"  

 

@Dr. Gonzo  et al

 

Defence.  Without doubt the standout quality of our teams playing.  Has kept us in many a game where quite possibly we should have already been put to the sword. Yep , we're getting this right. We need to groom replacements for down the line.  A++

Midfield...Here I have a quandary....as the talent on hand ( brilliant ) when combined imo simply doesnt equal the results we get...or should get. We should be clearing oput of the middle like we did in  that Granny far more often than we do.  For all of Max's work and the abilities of the mids..  I just don't get it..Something NQR about us there..  but thats possibly just my take.. We do well , but are we getting it right ??  Give it a C..it passes..thats all..

Forward line.... I'm seriously tempted to simply reply...WHAT forward line.    We have any number of Forwards though lack a few key elements there. The composition and effectiveness is somwhere between abysmal and adequate.. Anyone who sees this as anything far short of a dogs breakfast half the time  has very powerful red and blue glasses on. We need a new coach here, we need an entirely different approach ...I can only suggest actually playing attacking forward footy instead of employing fwds to be defenders in our own arc might be a start.  A lot of work here.  I concur  Tmac ( disappointing ) and Benny  should probably concentrate on their futures. We thankyou for all youve done. Be proud 

Forward Line  F

We have a coach who did indeed leaad us to a flag. Thats to be appluaded and yep, thankyou very much. That was then , this is now......right now we're trending backwards. Many a selection ,gameplan etc has left more than me just a little perplexed. For someone who seemed active in thinking and doing outside of box tactics he ()SG) seems firmly rooted inside a very limited design. There is practically NO team more predictable than Melbourne..  I disagree with how sound our gameplan is... it once worked quite OK... it is now used AGAINST us...What made us inpenetrable now can be our achilles heel. Our accuracy is a steady line declining through the year.  We HAVE had the opportunity....ahh but that barn is elusive eh...

Something I think needs to change is the total bias on defence.  Thats all we do really defend. Doesnt matter where on the ground we seem focused on defending...defending space, territory. Don't let there back get the ball oout etc etc.  Ostensibly there is sound rationale to this, but it ought to be the second string..not the first..Once you pass teh square on to the goals is about ATTACK, it's about forward patterns, skills,craft.  In short it's about kicking GOALS...... nothiing more really as thats the whole point of the game. Ouur game needs to flow, it needs to transition fromnegative to positive as it moves down the field.

We need  some line coaches. Only defence is working. Will be interesting to see who does , or wants to come on board. Will we be pragmatic enough to let Stafford go?? I do wonder...I have to think that Simon is quite ok with him....otherwise surely there would have been many changes already...but we still play mainly as we always do. A major concern for me.

It worries me that glaring in abilities seem to go on unchecked/unchanged.

It is easy enough  to suggest that we are there or there abouts having only lost by small margins. That to me only masks over the cracks . We've had ample opportunites. All four finals were there to be one...and we managed to LOSE all of them.

It's often rolled out that we have the ideal gamestyle for finals footy.. guess what ; we DONT. 

I would have thought last years debacle was sufficient lesson to spur us on this year.....and now they're saying exactly the same...for next year.  Meh....   It looked like we choked..If thats the case...then why...and thats another thing we aren't getting right.

Off field.  Memeberships up..Fantastic...and maybe a home...well when that becomes a definite...another 'Fantastic'

Yes it is arguably hard to finish top 4 ...or win multiple  Premierships..

but..if we look at the Cups just this Century:

2000 Ess   

2001  Lions   2002  Lions  2003 Lions

2004 Port

2005 Syd

2006 Eagles

2007 Geel

2008 Haw

2009 Geel

2010 Col

2011 Geel

2012 Syd

2013  Haw  2014 Haw  2015 Haw

2016 Dogs

2017 Rich

2018 Eagles

2019 Rich  2020 Rich

2021 DEES

2022 Geel

I think it's fair to say that some clubs took full advantage of 'windows" being open

Not us, but we are getting very good at just staring out of them.

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by beelzebub

[Gunna’s 2,104]

3 hours ago, Swooper1987 said:

I think Rohan Connolly is an outstanding footy journo.  He provides a sense of real balance in his latest piece for ESPN.

https://www.espn.com.au/afl/story/_/id/38395193/afl-finals-rohan-connolly-where-next-melbourne-demons-port-adelaide-power-straight-sets

Interesting stat of how many have lost the semi since 2013. Wonder the correlation between straight sets and the pre finals bye introduced in 2016???

[At Least I Saw a Flag 5,240]

I think that reaching a Prelim would have been a pass mark. And preferably not getting thrashed in the Prelim. I think we would all have been OK with that.

Going out in straight sets has to be considered a fail.

[BaliDemon 401]

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/09/18/dees-and-goodwin-slammed-for-crazy-schache-sub-call-in-semi-final-loss/
 

Dwayne has teed off on Goodwin’s poor decision making on Friday night - especially re not activating Schache and persisting with TMac - and rightly so ☝🏼

[Pennant St Dee 13,173]

2 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

But someone said Yze takes the reigns on Matchday? I'm confused 🤔

You’re not half as confused as Swyl is, some choose to not think logically when they are told a rumour.

He’s now under the pump because of what occurs in the last minute.

Got to laugh

[dino rover 714]

Isaac smith was positive on the Dees on the footy show on Saturday 

basically don’t overreact 

good list

No fundamental deficiencies that can’t be addressed 

[58er 6,429]

1 hour ago, dino rover said:

I don’t want to patch together a fwd line

we should aim higher

 

That's hardly "patching together" Who else is better that we have got at present plus Kossie and a couple of more mids/smalls,  Plus ANB Trac at times. 

[58er 6,429]

5 hours ago, Monbon said:

Agree: then again, there's also no need to blame him for every twist of fate either...

Well he is responsible for the Coaches and the players along with the Footy Dept. Match Day is his baby !! 

Friday night would be about 5/6 in the box and 3/4 selection out of 10

Great move of Kossie to FF which nearly paid off snd it was at the start of the 3rd quarter, not with 10 mins to go. 
What would have been wrong with Kossie bring in the square for the last 2 ball ups ( bounces) ? Just gut feel ! 

[beelzebub 23,359]

2 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Senior Coach always has the Final say…

I think there was a period of greater delegation but not so much into the finals  and /pr esp this year I guessing..  Not saying the OOze isnt professional but he's human.... Might not have been 100% focused on us...what is...is.

Edited September 18, 2023 by beelzebub
Sp

[layzie 33,796]

59 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

For those that have not already done so I highly recommend, ne implore you to read @george_on_the_outer report "Learning or Burnings"  

 

@Dr. Gonzo  et al

 

Defence.  Without doubt the standout quality of our teams playing.  Has kept us in many a game where quite possibly we should have already been put to the sword. Yep , we're getting this right. We need to groom replacements for down the line.  A++

Midfield...Here I have a quandary....as the talent on hand ( brilliant ) when combined imo simply doesnt equal the results we get...or should get. We should be clearing oput of the middle like we did in  that Granny far more often than we do.  For all of Max's work and the abilities of the mids..  I just don't get it..Something NQR about us there..  but thats possibly just my take.. We do well , but are we getting it right ??  Give it a C..it passes..thats all..

Forward line.... I'm seriously tempted to simply reply...WHAT forward line.    We have any number of Forwards though lack a few key elements there. The composition and effectiveness is somwhere between abysmal and adequate.. Anyone who sees this as anything far short of a dogs breakfast half the time  has very powerful red and blue glasses on. We need a new coach here, we need an entirely different approach ...I can only suggest actually playing attacking forward footy instead of employing fwds to be defenders in our own arc might be a start.  A lot of work here.  I concur  Tmac ( disappointing ) and Benny  should probably concentrate on their futures. We thankyou for all youve done. Be proud 

Forward Line  F

We have a coach who did indeed leaad us to a flag. Thats to be appluaded and yep, thankyou very much. That was then , this is now......right now we're trending backwards. Many a selection ,gameplan etc has left more than me just a little perplexed. For someone who seemed active in thinking and doing outside of box tactics he ()SG) seems firmly rooted inside a very limited design. There is practically NO team more predictable than Melbourne..  I disagree with how sound our gameplan is... it once worked quite OK... it is now used AGAINST us...What made us inpenetrable now can be our achilles heel. Our accuracy is a steady line declining through the year.  We HAVE had the opportunity....ahh but that barn is elusive eh...

Something I think needs to change is the total bias on defence.  Thats all we do really defend. Doesnt matter where on the ground we seem focused on defending...defending space, territory. Don't let there back get the ball oout etc etc.  Ostensibly there is sound rationale to this, but it ought to be the second string..not the first..Once you pass teh square on to the goals is about ATTACK, it's about forward patterns, skills,craft.  In short it's about kicking GOALS...... nothiing more really as thats the whole point of the game. Ouur game needs to flow, it needs to transition fromnegative to positive as it moves down the field.

We need  some line coaches. Only defence is working. Will be interesting to see who does , or wants to come on board. Will we be pragmatic enough to let Stafford go?? I do wonder...I have to think that Simon is quite ok with him....otherwise surely there would have been many changes already...but we still play mainly as we always do. A major concern for me.

It worries me that glaring in abilities seem to go on unchecked/unchanged.

It is easy enough  to suggest that we are there or there abouts having only lost by small margins. That to me only masks over the cracks . We've had ample opportunites. All four finals were there to be one...and we managed to LOSE all of them.

It's often rolled out that we have the ideal gamestyle for finals footy.. guess what ; we DONT. 

I would have thought last years debacle was sufficient lesson to spur us on this year.....and now they're saying exactly the same...for next year.  Meh....   It looked like we choked..If thats the case...then why...and thats another thing we aren't getting right.

Off field.  Memeberships up..Fantastic...and maybe a home...well when that becomes a definite...another 'Fantastic'

Yes it is arguably hard to finish top 4 ...or win multiple  Premierships..

but..if we look at the Cups just this Century:

2000 Ess   

2001  Lions   2002  Lions  2003 Lions

2004 Port

2005 Syd

2006 Eagles

2007 Geel

2008 Haw

2009 Geel

2010 Col

2011 Geel

2012 Syd

2013  Haw  2014 Haw  2015 Haw

2016 Dogs

2017 Rich

2018 Eagles

2019 Rich  2020 Rich

2021 DEES

2022 Geel

I think it's fair to say that some clubs took full advantage of 'windows" being open

Not us, but we are getting very good at just staring out of them.

 

Great article from George and sums up a lot of what we're thinking.

What is frustrating me when it comes to people backing our gameplan is looking at these last two games in isolation, then looking at the missed scoring chances and exclaiming that if the kicking were better it would be perfect. It's not that simple and a lot of the people saying this know that.

The gameplan does stack up for the most part, two top 4 finishes and few losses bigger than 12 points backs that up. But for me it isn't a case of converting a couple more chances, for me it's starting to look more like what got us here won't get us there. We did it against the Swans in 22, long ball after long ball and it was easy to setup defensively for. Same thing against the Pies and this game. 

The season and what we do during it is great but it's a dress rehearsal for these big time games. If the accuracy issue wasn't bad enough we then hear about injuries and missing two players from our best 22 is enough to totally derail us.  We hear people saying losing Gus hurt us badly in our structure and yes it did. Injuries played a part believe me but guess what? Many teams lose players in finals that way, very rarely does it ever go to script. You have to deal with whatever is thrown at you.

We can say whatever we'd like and make all kinds of excuses but at the end of the day we had 160 mins of football to prepare for as best we can and make our statement. Whatever happened in it was always 'enter at your own risk'. I don't see any other way this can be seen as a failed campaign after bowing out the same way last year. 

Edited September 18, 2023 by layzie

[Demonsterative 3,020]

4 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

In terms of Match Day Coaching, he is under the Pump. 
Credits in the Bank from ‘21 Success have now gone. 
That has come from inside…

 

Inside where SWYL? 
 

possibly some Coloxyl may clear that up for you 😜🤪😂

[Abyssal 465]

2 hours ago, Winners at last said:

I don't understand why we don't win more centre clearances.

For a start, I don’t think Viney should start there.

One sided and lacks breakaway speed.

[Fat Tony 5,228]

On 9/16/2023 at 11:06 AM, Dannyz said:

Anyone know an assistant out there who can teach strategy and ball movement into the 50?

Caracella is known to be one and I've heard Jason Davenport at GWS has been huge in this space. 

We really need someone in this space. 

I am not sure our midfield has the kicking skill to play in a more precise fashion. Petracca, Oliver, Viney, Hunter, Gawn, ANB, Langdon, Sparrow, Brayshaw and Rivers are our top 10 inside 50 kickers (accounting for more than half our entries) and none of them are elite AFL kicks. We obviously need more skill on the outside, but Petracca, Oliver, Viney and Gawn are the core of our team and will continue to provide more than a quarter of our entries. We could encourage them to hit up shorter targets, but they are not very good at that and this potentially opens us up to counterattack.

 

Rank	Name	Games	Average
1	Christian Petracca	25	5.88
2	Clayton Oliver	15	5.47
3	Jack Viney	24	5.29
4	Lachlan Hunter	24	3.71
5	Max Gawn	22	3.41
6	Alex Neal-Bullen	25	3.40
7	Ed Langdon	25	3.12
8	Tom Sparrow	23	2.96
9	Angus Brayshaw	24	2.88
9	Trent Rivers	25	2.88
11	Brodie Grundy	17	2.71
12	Christian Salem	16	2.56
13	Bayley Fritsch	17	2.53
14	James Jordon	18	2.39
14	Kysaiah Pickett	23	2.39
16	James Harmes	9	2.33
17	Jake Melksham	13	2.31
18	Kade Chandler	23	2.17
19	Taj Woewodin	4	2.00
20	Charlie Spargo	14	1.93

[Sir Why You Little 37,034]

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

I think there was a period of greater delegation but not so much into the finals  and /pr esp this year I guessing..  Not saying the OOze isnt professional but he's human.... Might not have been 100% focused on us...what is...is.

Different responsibilities were given yes. And the Assistant Coaches had more voice, but ultimately it is still The Senior Coach who has the final say….

[Willmoy1947 4,085]

11 hours ago, Demon Dynasty said:

100% this needs addressing.

We're getting pumped every time in the big/close games.

All the big controversial decisions, including the arc review in Rnd 22.  If the goal ump is unsure you don't call a soft call behind.  It's always a goal if it goes through the sticks without touching the post using the arc sound thingy.... then you must prove it was touched.  Not try and prove that he didn't touch it.  Faaark me.  Anyone can stick their hand up and say "i touched it'.  We're going on that!!???  Players lie lol.  The AFL are completely faaarked.

Even in 21 vs the Crows no deliberate when it was obvious to the whole nation cost us that match.

Tracc gets pinged for a toe poke in a contested situation.  Ok fair enough.  The Blues do a more obvious one on the other side.... nup that's different apparently.... BECAUSE!!?????

The free to the blues player in the back pocket in the 4th who was clearly caught holding the ball or incorrect disposal but instead goes therir way for high contact that was not there ...plus a 50 on top.   Get stuffed!  What"s going on??

The Demon hierarchy needs to stand up and step up here behind closed doors and thump some tables.

The umpires will just give the same old 'mistakes happen' line.  Needs to go to the top not via the umps.  NO. 22 in particular should never umpire at AFL level again.

Ask the question..... what the FAAArk is going on!!???

And that is just touching the surface. This  bias was brought on full display from the first game this year and those umpires have a sacred duty to be fair , but they have let their vocation down, They are well paid and for them to be caught on screen smirking and smiling after bogus decisions and confusing free kicks made, and then talking to another maggot like Maynard after what he had done and i don't accept his appearance of contrition in any shape or form.  It wouldn't have been allowed to proceed in Ireland after a game. He would have been removed from my house one way or the other.

With less than two minutes to go in Friday's game Carlton had resigned themselves to losing that and you could see the look on the coach's and the players faces until some maggots introduced dirty low unforgiveable extremes  where they dictated what was going to happen. They know who they are as well.

[Sir Why You Little 37,034]

1 hour ago, Demonsterative said:

Inside where SWYL? 
 

possibly some Coloxyl may clear that up for you 😜🤪😂

Rightio

[Willmoy1947 4,085]

10 hours ago, 58er said:

Agree yes we were right in it but we killed our easier op last week and nailed the second again through our 1% ers cruelling us. All basically our decision making snd lack of composure. Not sure it is teachable to everyone but let's try.

Selection and use if Sub this week a horror show. Ruck in forward line Sgete was Tmac at the bounces etc?

Just remember other teams have failed in the top4 and won the following year/s. Job is now to sift through the "wreckage " and solve the problem ASAP . 

List needs addressing in some areas and succession plans for 30 plus snd older should be paramount. 

Injuries we're the elephant in the room and depth not good enough to cover our forwards. 

2024 is crucial for the next flag Hopes as decisions on the playing list will see some top ups waiting in the wings ( literally maybe) May be from Casey Forwards from trade and draft plus outside runners the draft again. And a deck chair shift in coaches with one at least perhaps over board after the front of the vessel has had its secondtrip mostly wasted snd tending towards underground in paradise.

Go along with your insight and just want to add a little about our back up.

We have back up and i think it is more about our integration of the back up, like what stage to bring in and where and when, including maybe a slight propensity for not handling conditions and again like Grundy would have won us that game Against both Carlton and Collingwood just with his physicality.

Grundy by the way had several times this year exhibited his mix it  ability and i think its been a glaring mistake not to have included him in the Finals. 

Question........Would Grundy get more free kicks and take more marks than what Max could get, and therefore present more of an asset?  We should hang on to him because we bloody well need him......

[Mt. Dee-Maaan 608]

1 hour ago, Fat Tony said:

I am not sure our midfield has the kicking skill to play in a more precise fashion. Petracca, Oliver, Viney, Hunter, Gawn, ANB, Langdon, Sparrow, Brayshaw and Rivers are our top 10 inside 50 kickers (accounting for more than half our entries) and none of them are elite AFL kicks. We obviously need more skill on the outside, but Petracca, Oliver, Viney and Gawn are the core of our team and will continue to provide more than a quarter of our entries. We could encourage them to hit up shorter targets, but they are not very good at that and this potentially opens us up to counterattack.

 

Rank	Name	Games	Average
1	Christian Petracca	25	5.88
2	Clayton Oliver	15	5.47
3	Jack Viney	24	5.29
4	Lachlan Hunter	24	3.71
5	Max Gawn	22	3.41
6	Alex Neal-Bullen	25	3.40
7	Ed Langdon	25	3.12
8	Tom Sparrow	23	2.96
9	Angus Brayshaw	24	2.88
9	Trent Rivers	25	2.88
11	Brodie Grundy	17	2.71
12	Christian Salem	16	2.56
13	Bayley Fritsch	17	2.53
14	James Jordon	18	2.39
14	Kysaiah Pickett	23	2.39
16	James Harmes	9	2.33
17	Jake Melksham	13	2.31
18	Kade Chandler	23	2.17
19	Taj Woewodin	4	2.00
20	Charlie Spargo	14	1.93

stating the bleeding obvious, but we need talented players by foot going inside 50 as much as we need a tall forward..

[BoomerTJ 15]

We lost two close ones. There's always an element of luck, questionable umpiring decisions etc, but players and coaching staff did their best.

Dees have given their supporters a lot of joy and excitement over recent years. Winning isn't everything, in football or life.

There's always next year. Enjoy the journey, and Go Dees!

[The Lobster Effect 891]

3 hours ago, BaliDemon said:

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/09/18/dees-and-goodwin-slammed-for-crazy-schache-sub-call-in-semi-final-loss/
 

Dwayne has teed off on Goodwin’s poor decision making on Friday night - especially re not activating Schache and persisting with TMac - and rightly so ☝🏼

Yeah I was wondering this myself. I've avoided Demonland until now as I was too annoyed about the loss so others may have already raised this but why the hell wasn't Schache subbed in for Tmac? If not at 3 quarter time then halfway through the last quarter? I get that Schache isn't the world's greatest player and is not a runner but surely his fresh legs would have been an improvement on Tmac (6 possies for the game) ??!!

[jnrmac 20,060]

4 hours ago, Winners at last said:

I don't understand why we don't win more centre clearances.

This has been my argument for bringing Grundy back in. We won't lose much at centre clearance and it will force oppositions to adjust.

All year I thought Gawn would take the tap and go back to defence while Grundy would ruck around the ground but we never tried that.

And I still reckon thommo could play as a defensive fwd.

Goody it seems has to be pushed into making changes