POSTGAME: SF vs Carlton

[Dr. Gonzo 22,486]

11 hours ago, jnrmac said:

We supposedly built a team that is primed for finals footy.

We have lost 4 in a row.

We consistently shoot ourselves in the foot with accuracy , bombing the ball into the fwd50. We have been doing this for 5 years.

We do dumb things and keep repeating them

Our selection policy is a shambles.

We are unbelievably predictable

Two finals we should have won and yet here we are.

How is it the Kingsley takes a team thats 3 and 7 and wins a final as well as winning at 11 separate venues?

How is it that Voss was in the gun to be sacked and here we are 

 

The mistakes are all our own. And we keep repeating them

And you don't understand calls for him to be replaced? At this point we will have another 5 years of this and then we'll say what a wasted era

Goodwin's job is to create a gameplan that gives us the opportunity to succeed. He's done that. It's the execution that is killing us, you say we should've won both games? Why? Because we dominated possession/territory and created enough opportunities to kick a winning score. The fact we didn't is down to execution, not strategy.

That's not to say we couldn't rejig things or consider another strategy, we could and may well do so. But it doesn't mean Goodwin is the reason we are losing.

[Garbo 1,330]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Goodwin's job is to create a gameplan that gives us the opportunity to succeed. He's done that. It's the execution that is killing us, you say we should've won both games? Why? Because we dominated possession/territory and created enough opportunities to kick a winning score. The fact we didn't is down to execution, not strategy.

That's not to say we couldn't rejig things or consider another strategy, we could and may well do so. But it doesn't mean Goodwin is the reason we are losing.

We don’t draft good kicks, our game plan means we don’t get easy shots on goal often, the way we play means players more gassed when taking shots meaning less accuracy, all things he has control over.

If it was a freak occurrence in a single game I would agree it’s not his fault but this happens to often to be luck and if it continues to cost us at the deep end of the season he should be held to account 

[Dr. Gonzo 22,486]

1 minute ago, Garbo said:

We don’t draft good kicks, our game plan means we don’t get easy shots on goal often, the way we play means players more gassed when taking shots meaning less accuracy, all things he has control over.

If it was a freak occurrence in a single game I would agree it’s not his fault but this happens to often to be luck and if it continues to cost us at the deep end of the season he should be held to account 

So it's because of the gameplan Max chokes and misses a sitter 25m out right in front? Or Kozzie and Fritsch miss regulation set shots they generally kick? Nah I'm not buying it.

I do agree we need to draft some better kicks, hopefully we use pick 5 to get someone in. But that's not on Goodwin, we have a recruiting team that owns that.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Dr. Gonzo

[Dr. Gonzo 22,486]

7 hours ago, Mel Bourne said:

Have never been overly-impressed by him, but he is only 23. Best possibly yet to come. 

He'd make a great intercept defender, Dogs should shift him to defence.

[Garbo 1,330]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

So it's because of the gameplan Max chokes and misses a sitter 25m out right in front? Or Kozzie and Fritsch miss regulation set shots they generally kick? Nah I'm not buying it.

I do agree we need to draft some better kicks, hopefully we use pick 5 to get someone in. But that's not on Goodwin, we have a recruiting team that owns that.

Sure not every miss but the in the totality of the season we see the same patterns again and again. It’s never one miss or bad decision that’s costs the game really it’s the 20 others put together. We kick 17.9 and everyone would be having a laugh at max missing 

[Dr. Gonzo 22,486]

1 minute ago, Garbo said:

Sure not every miss but the in the totality of the season we see the same patterns again and again. It’s never one miss or bad decision that’s costs the game really it’s the 20 others put together. We kick 17.9 and everyone would be having a laugh at max missing 

So what's the solution? What can we do to tinker with the gameplan to fix this? If the issue is accuracy due to poor overall skills then surely the best gameplan is to create as many opportunities as possible and hope that enough of them go through to kick a winning score, which is exactly what our gameplan is.

[DubDee 20,740]

what are we thinking about Kozzi?

probably 1 week i reckon a

[Garbo 1,330]

10 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

So what's the solution? What can we do to tinker with the gameplan to fix this? If the issue is accuracy due to poor overall skills then surely the best gameplan is to create as many opportunities as possible and hope that enough of them go through to kick a winning score, which is exactly what our gameplan is.

Sure this might be the best option based on where our list is at, but Goodwin needs to take responsibility that we find ourself in this position. Early in the season we were a much more accurate side when players were still fresh, as the season wore on and players become fatigued our accuracy become less and less. I’ll use Petrcca as an example if we made him a fwd of centre player only and didn’t have him going the full press all game as a true mid he might start kicking a few more goals, making some smarter decisions with kicks into 50. The fact we rely largely on the same core players to play 90% game time at the contest isn’t sustainable. 

Edited September 16, 2023 by Garbo

[Dr. Gonzo 22,486]

1 hour ago, titan_uranus said:

If "really controlled the game and should've been up by far more at halftime" was a thing, we'd be premiers.

We were good vs Port. Not great, but good. We certainly weren't comprehensively beaten. I don't think that game goes in the same bucket as Brisbane, Essendon or Geelong.

Sure it's subjective, but then you would have to put the King's Birthday game in the 50/50 bucket too. That's fine.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,486]

1 hour ago, BDA said:

And the team that wins their elimination final has momentum and confidence versus the losing qf team.

Plus the pre finals bye which allows them to freshen up and lessen the impact of having to travel

[Dr. Gonzo 22,486]

17 minutes ago, Garbo said:

Sure this might be the best option based on where our list is at, but Goodwin needs to take responsibility that we find ourself in this position. Early in the season we were a much more accurate side when players were still fresh, as the season wore on and players become fatigued our accuracy become less and less. I’ll use Petrcca as an example if we made him a fwd of centre player only and didn’t have him going the full press all game as a true mid he might start kicking a few more goals, making some smarter decisions with kicks into 50. The fact we really largely on the same core players to play 90% game time at the contest isn’t sustainable. 

Sure fatigue may be a contributing factor. So we should play a less defensive game and open ourselves up to opposition scores - then what happens when we still have trouble converting? We can't stay in games.

I'd like to see us play with a bit more flair and I think they were looking at that early last night (and last offseason) but we still lack personnel up forward. Brown and TMac are finished, Max can't kick, Grundy can't mark, JVR is still a kid and Petty and Melksham were injured. Moving forward I'm confident if we can keep the combo of Petty/JVR/Fritsch/Kozzie/McAdam with ANB/Spargo/Chandler floating through we will have a pretty potent forward line and it will allow us to play a more attacking style having confidence that the forwards will contest and convert.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Dr. Gonzo

[Travy14 1,506]

10 hours ago, Spit Demon said:

Totally get what you are saying, but personally I can't accept being so dominant in so many areas and still coming up short. If we were clearly beaten by the better team then I have no problem whatsoever with losing the game, but I firmly believe that at their best the Dees are the best in the comp, above 50% (70%+ would be outstanding, apparently Dees are going at 48.1% in 2023) goal kicking accuracy would have done the job in the last 2 weeks, hence the frustration... 

that goes onto the players IMO, goal kicking was an issue, they dressed it and got really good mid year.  Then it has dropped off again.  That's a players mind set not coaching.  I do agree we need a new forward coach though.

but we need another dominant fwd that can take the game by the scruff of the neck or attracts attention to give our other fwds better looks.  

[leave it to deever 15,646]

14 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

I guess so.  Hopefully someone tells him it was but one in a hundred moments that affected the result.

But to see one of the toughest and courageous players in the game be so vulnerable was tough to witness.

He was one of our best players against Carlton for me. And certainly a big reason why we got to play finals in the first place.

He can certainly hold his head up high. Wonderful season.

 

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,618]

So where do we finish on the ladder. ?   Port and Melb both went out in “straight sets”. They finished the home and away above us, so I guess we came 6th(though we were dead stiff to lose each game, and they were killed in both of theirs.)

I guess it puts us above Port in the draft selection.

[640MD 2,809]

15 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Because he was such a weapon teams started tagging him and playing the opposite wing. I thought Langdon was pretty good last night barring the two on the fulls.

Did you count the number of times he slipped or lost his footing,  could not believe it usually stays upright

[Demonsone 1,605]

Apart from our missed shots to bury the game, giving away dumb 50s and free reversals, the last goal saw 1 defender vs 4 blues, were the hell were May & lever etc defending to the last minute, our biggest strength also cost us!

[loges 6,094]

15 hours ago, Brownie said:

Every now again I wonder if I'm being paranoid. But dead set, Cripps ran into the back of Pickett's head. He didn't touch his shoulder.

Surely we should be appealing.

But, we hardly ever do.

It was a Head clash the, the bump was shoulder to shoulder 

[loges 6,094]

Goodwin needs to somewhat reinvent himself, midfield and forwards to practise hitting targets including goal scoring.

[The Chief 649]

On 9/16/2023 at 7:31 AM, Great Northern Summer said:

The idea that teams have head coaches that do everything is misguided. That changed 20 or so years ago, give or take.

In various cases, the coaching role is split up - for instance the head coach might be the ‘people coach’ and an assistant/s the ‘technical/strategy coach’. Clearly the case with Collingwood - Leppitsch is actually coaching them, McRae is the positive morale and media man. I sense it’s probably the case with Melbourne - we all lay blame on Goodwin because he’s the face of the coaching department, but it’s probably not him calling the shots.

 

This is spot on. I can’t divulge how I know, but Yze is basically the match day coach, all tactical decisions during the game go through him. No changes during the game are made unless Yze agrees.  Goody’s focus during the game is on reinforcing messages to players, passing on Yze’s and line coaches feedback, providing positive encouragement and giving feedback on KPI’s/ key statistical measures. Nothing negative or overly critical is said to the players during the game. 

[adonski 9,155]

4 minutes ago, The Chief said:

This is spot on. I can’t divulge how I know, but Yze is basically the match day coach, all tactical decisions during the game go through him. No changes during the game are made unless Yze agrees.  Goody’s focus during the game is on reinforcing messages to players, passing on Yze’s and line coaches feedback, providing positive encouragement and giving feedback on KPI’s/ key statistical measures. Nothing negative or overly critical is said to the players during the game. 

IS YZE THE RIGHT GUY?

[Tolstoys Nudge 1,239]

On 9/15/2023 at 10:33 PM, MurDoc516 said:

9 goals 17 behinds. Sorry Stafford and Williams. Someone needs to go.

Players miss goals not coaches — one sort of game that cannot be replicated in training conditions!

[Dr. Gonzo 22,486]

1 hour ago, The Chief said:

This is spot on. I can’t divulge how I know, but Yze is basically the match day coach, all tactical decisions during the game go through him. No changes during the game are made unless Yze agrees.  Goody’s focus during the game is on reinforcing messages to players, passing on Yze’s and line coaches feedback, providing positive encouragement and giving feedback on KPI’s/ key statistical measures. Nothing negative or overly critical is said to the players during the game. 

Well we need a new GameDay coach because Yze will be a Tiger next year.

Stewie Dew?

Edited September 17, 2023 by Dr. Gonzo

[GonetoCA 8]

Watching the Giants last night, I couldn't help but wonder what happened with Toby Bedford. Melbourne treated him as a specialist medical sub player, the #1 unused sub in the competition. He heads north, and immediately becomes an elite small forward, applying pressure that we could have sorely used on Friday.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,486]

4 minutes ago, Nudge said:

Players miss goals not coaches — one sort of game that cannot be replicated in training conditions!

That's true but I think our forward structure needs fresh eyes. We need to train our forwards to create leading lanes, movement creates space etc

[Dr. Gonzo 22,486]

Just now, GonetoCA said:

Watching the Giants last night, I couldn't help but wonder what happened with Toby Bedford. Melbourne treated him as a specialist medical sub player, the #1 unused sub in the competition. He heads north, and immediately becomes an elite small forward, applying pressure that we could have sorely used on Friday.

He's matured, he had some chances last year but didn't really take them. His best game, ironically, was against the Giants. We didn't want to let him go, he wanted to leave - about annoying considering he was an academy player I think but it is what it is.