Mess with everyone's head by getting free agent McKay from North to play forward.

5 hours ago, leucopogon said:

It's a genuine concern. If we don't draft two very good mids in the first round this year I think we'll be shooting ourselves in the foot in the medium to long term. We have more than enough flankers and project players.

We also need a readymade KPF to replace the outgoing TMac and BBB. Maybe Georgiades in a Grundy trade, maybe Ratagulea for a late draft pick. Hopefully Petty heals up ok and is right for next season. I can also foresee a huge challenge holding onto JVR. The Eagles will be offering stupid money to lure him home now that they've freed up a massive chunk of their salary cap.  

Regardless of this, I firmly believe that the priority with this draft should be midfield succession planning. 

I agree.  Without good mids there is no one to feed the forwards.  Best example of this is when the west coast lost Judd & Co in short order, same forward line dramatic drop off in scoring,  Simply the ball could not be delivered down there. 

In saying that awe need a big forward who can contest when it get crowded and bring it to ground.  JVR is not there yet and it shouldn't be his main role. 

 

Really surprised about the discussion. It’s a forward issue. Get it in enough to a 50/50 contest enough times (which we do) then it’s purely forward craft and clunking them. We don’t have it and we desperately need it. 

10 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

We lack depth. No doubt about it.

So many players that have been lacklustre  this year and haven't been dropped because there is nobody to replace them with.

I hate to say it but with our aging list we are on the verge of a semi rebuild.

It's been a strange season too. Lots of key players injured. Fritta. Petty. Gawn. Oliver. Salo. We haven't seemed to gel. Kozzie didn't deliver. Went backwards after his suspension. Oliver 12 weeks for a hammy.

Even Trac has been off the boil tge last 5 rounds.

Too many away games in the fixture including Kardinia,  Tassie and the Nt game.

The Nt is short sighted. Wins are more important.

We need to make some tough calls now. Bbb and Tmac and Grundy need to go. 

We will probably make finals again next year but like the dogs drift away.

I thought tgh 21 list would see maybe even three flags but I think it's going to be another drought.

Would have been so nice to not kick so incredibly bad at goal last night and be in a pf.

Imagine winning a granny at the G after almost six decades.

We blew it big time.

Losing Gus and having an inexperienced kid play in his place was a disaster. What a huge coaching error. What was Goody thinking? Wth.

Sadly we didn't show any revenge for Gus except for Viney.

Most teams would have flown the flag and all run at  Maynard.

Then roughed them all up at every turn. Why did we not seem to care?

Not a good sign.

Even with all our injuries this year we almost made it. Our inept kicking at goal has not been fixed. In fact it looks like it's getting worse.

But I think that's our campaign over now.

And it gets harder each season as the list ages.

It's a cruel mistress footy.

At least we can clear the fwd line out.

 

All of this

all of it

another 50 years in purgatory beckons. It was good to see one. On the TV.

 

We need a 196-200-cm pack splitter in the mould of Levi Casboult to replace TMac and BBB. 

Interestingly, in the Swans Blues game one of the best on ground was Hayden McLean a 197-cm, built like a brick outhouse, supplemental list drafted player. Like Fritta did a year in the VFL before getting picked up. Are we scanning the VFL as well as we should be for these kind of players?

The best forward in the game Curnow only kicked one goal tonight

In finals football there too many numbers back these days for traditional key forwards to kick a bag.

Edited September 8, 20231 yr by dee-tox

14 hours ago, layzie said:

Need better ball use. Much better ball use.

draft mckercher at 4

13 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

I’d have gone after Harry Jones but his injury history is as bad as most of our talls. New club might’ve helped.

No doubt we’ll call Richmond and ask on Lynch but I don’t love the odds of it happening or the odds of him staying healthy.

Need to audition some state league or delisted options over summer. Must, must have someone train for a list spot.

But classy mids and flankers are more likely and reliable predictable ball movement will incentivise the forwards to lead better and create more hit up marks.

HJ is exactly who we don't need, hes a hipwood-esque lead up player who has reach and leap but JVR does that well already. we need the big top of the goalsquare donkey who can stand there and go shoulder to shoulder with 200cm defenders and hawkins them out of the way and clunk them on the chest or skittles 4 bodies so kozzy has some room to swoop through

18 hours ago, old55 said:

How about we go after Harrison Petty from Melbourne, I wonder what it would take to get him across?

Sure, as I stated he is a good fit from

the few games we have seen him forward. 
But here is the problem, firstly he missed 6 games last year and 11 so far this year. So durability is questionable.

And when he play’s permanent forward, teams lock in on him more. Can he be as effective? I hope so. But it’s yet to be determined. 

23 hours ago, Gawndy the Great said:

Having Wayne Carey wouldn’t solve our problem. It’s ball movement and forward connection that is the issue., Isolate the forward line and they kick bags.

Need better ball users plain and simple. 

I'm not sure that Carey is the answer, isn't he a tad old to hold down CHF?

How often have you heard the coach say ' our forward line is a work in progress. Dozens I bet. I think the airport rail link is closer to finish than our forward line. We worry so much about the forward line that its coach is a ruckman.

Here is a left wing idea employ a forward line coach who was a forward. How about Jack Reiwolt. Just retired kicked many goals, in successful team.

On thursday night sitting at the city end watching the forward line up close, the number of times with the ball approaching into our forward area, JVR and TMAC standing shoulder to shoulder next to each other. For gods sake split and offer multable options to the on coming ball carrier.

Learn how to kick over the preseason at a 21 mtr wide target because simply we cant.

The issue is that there's no genuine key forwards in the market at the end of the year.

Aaron Naughton comes out of contract at the end of 2024 and there was some talk that we showed interest last year.

7 minutes ago, ex52k2 said:

How often have you heard the coach say ' our forward line is a work in progress. Dozens I bet. I think the airport rail link is closer to finish than our forward line. We worry so much about the forward line that its coach is a ruckman.

Here is a left wing idea employ a forward line coach who was a forward. How about Jack Reiwolt. Just retired kicked many goals, in successful team.

On thursday night sitting at the city end watching the forward line up close, the number of times with the ball approaching into our forward area, JVR and TMAC standing shoulder to shoulder next to each other. For gods sake split and offer multable options to the on coming ball carrier.

Learn how to kick over the preseason at a 21 mtr wide target because simply we cant.

I've mentioned this previously when he announced his retirement that I'd happily take him on a 1 year deal with transition into a forwards coach.

Imagine the leadership and tactical nous he could provide for the likes of JVR, Jefferson and Petty. 

We're lacking genuine leadership up forward and I think he'd be a perfect foil for Petty and JVR as they continue to develop their forward craft.

Put it this way, I would have much rather a Jack Riewoldt playing on Thursday night then a Tom McDonald. 

On 9/8/2023 at 7:20 AM, Gorgoroth said:

Time to shelf the trying to get pick 1 etc, get gold coasts 4, and throw 4&5 at a key forward. McKay from Carlton, Allen from West coast are two of target. West coast would be happy with 1,4&5 going into the draft.

And unless we change our game plan or truly believe that Petty will be the main focal point and his body won’t fail him then we need to head hunt a genuine forward.

It just may be as simple as MOVING ON or changing our forward line Coach.

I have posted this idea about  SIX times in this season and I can't recall any support . Ridiculous ! If you need to change something look at all the factors. 

Our forward line is a mess and partly the way they are trained obviously and also our shanking of the ball affects our accuracy. 

All those shots that went out of bounds on the last quarter were poor attempts because the player was not directly facing the goals when kicking or he didn't try an snapshot style of kick at goals to give the ball a Chance.

Sutrky all the  Coaches must know this. Why don't they get Garry Lyon David Neitz and David Schwarz in for a think tank snd a hard truth ideas session and come up with a strategy.

The next thing is to follow up  with draft snd trade selections for  finishers who have excellent skills to maximise our huge no if forward entries that are just wasted. 

We are too spendthrift with our quantity over quality attitude.

Finally  a personal plea to Greg Stafford PLEASE RESIGN ASAP and save our dynasty hopes. You must be sick of this mess anyway. . 

20 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

We lack depth. No doubt about it.

So many players that have been lacklustre  this year and haven't been dropped because there is nobody to replace them with.

I hate to say it but with our aging list we are on the verge of a semi rebuild.

It's been a strange season too. Lots of key players injured. Fritta. Petty. Gawn. Oliver. Salo. We haven't seemed to gel. Kozzie didn't deliver. Went backwards after his suspension. Oliver 12 weeks for a hammy.

Even Trac has been off the boil tge last 5 rounds.

Too many away games in the fixture including Kardinia,  Tassie and the Nt game.

The Nt is short sighted. Wins are more important.

We need to make some tough calls now. Bbb and Tmac and Grundy need to go. 

We will probably make finals again next year but like the dogs drift away.

I thought tgh 21 list would see maybe even three flags but I think it's going to be another drought.

Would have been so nice to not kick so incredibly bad at goal last night and be in a pf.

Imagine winning a granny at the G after almost six decades.

We blew it big time.

Losing Gus and having an inexperienced kid play in his place was a disaster. What a huge coaching error. What was Goody thinking? Wth.

Sadly we didn't show any revenge for Gus except for Viney.

Most teams would have flown the flag and all run at  Maynard.

Then roughed them all up at every turn. Why did we not seem to care?

Not a good sign.

Even with all our injuries this year we almost made it. Our inept kicking at goal has not been fixed. In fact it looks like it's getting worse.

But I think that's our campaign over now.

And it gets harder each season as the list ages.

It's a cruel mistress footy.

At least we can clear the fwd line out.

 

This post absolutely nails it. Couldn’t agree with each point any more.
 

The lack of physicality after one of their leaders was KOed was insipid. Viney as usual the only one showing any heart and loyalty. Compare that to when Daicos was roughed up during the year and all the filth players flew the flag for him. I mean Trac was pointing at a prone Brayshaw and pleading with the umpire?! That was cringeworthy. 
 

I’ll call it now. Laurie isn’t going to make it. absolutely [censored] himself, as did a few others. wasted pick on another midget. 
 

We need some quality talls. We have almost no key position stocks. Our backline stocks are bare if May goes down. We only have two interceptors with Lever and Turner and no other tall backs if Petty is forward. 

I was hoping we went hard at Larkey with a promise to play finals. But looks like we didn’t even make a play for him before he was signed up on a long term deal. 

We have made some good recruiting decisions but our key position depth is seriously lacking and a failure in our list management of recent years. 
 

 

7 minutes ago, MoeSyzlak said:

he lack of physicality after one of their leaders was KOed was insipid.

We looked soft. I think the pies thought we were.

And maybe they were right.

Gus lying on the turf and no pies players given decent jumper punches wasn't a good look. Aplogies  to Jack Viney.

4 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

We looked soft. I think the pies thought we were.

And maybe they were right.

Gus lying on the turf and no pies players given decent jumper punches wasn't a good look. Aplogies  to Jack Viney.

They tried to intimidate us verbally and physically and you'd have to say it worked in their favour.

22 minutes ago, layzie said:

They tried to intimidate us verbally and physically and you'd have to say it worked in their favour.

A tactic that’s worked against us for a very long time. We are lovers not fighters. 

@58er I too have said Stafford needs to go and we need Yze to flip the standing areas of our mids so we are less predictable 

2 hours ago, Gorgoroth said:

Sure, as I stated he is a good fit from

the few games we have seen him forward. 
But here is the problem, firstly he missed 6 games last year and 11 so far this year. So durability is questionable.

And when he play’s permanent forward, teams lock in on him more. Can he be as effective? I hope so. But it’s yet to be determined. 

And who do we have to replace him in our defence?

Have Geelong conceded their now out of premiership contention? Probably not because they just won’t go away but I would still ask the question about Cameron. 
 

 

10 hours ago, Turner said:

draft mckercher at 4

HJ is exactly who we don't need, hes a hipwood-esque lead up player who has reach and leap but JVR does that well already. we need the big top of the goalsquare donkey who can stand there and go shoulder to shoulder with 200cm defenders and hawkins them out of the way and clunk them on the chest or skittles 4 bodies so kozzy has some room to swoop through

I disagree, I think mobile key forwards are the future and whilst a 200cm one would be ideal we really only need a combination like Petty and JVR who can both take a mark or crash a pack despite not being 200cm. The concern is depth behind them and finding a playable ruck option.

I would’ve liked someone like Harry Jones for insurance/developmental reasons, if he gets his body right he’s a nice lead up option who could compliment the main man. Obviously his body is a huge risk but it’s a risk I’d have taken barring any better alternatives.

Hawkins gets those chances one on one because Cameron draws attention. Same with Daniher and Hipwood. Same with Curnow and McKay. 

Once you’re bombing it in it’s too late unless you’ve got Levi Casboult and Max King playing together. Sydney had 3 big talls last night, looked awful. Once Parker went to full forward and Amartey got sent to the pine they looked very good.

2 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

We looked soft. I think the pies thought we were.

And maybe they were right.

Gus lying on the turf and no pies players given decent jumper punches wasn't a good look. Aplogies  to Jack Viney.

Would you have given up the Fritsch goal? 

The right thing to do was to let Fritsch kick the goal, let Gus get off the field and then for Viney and others to make a stand.

The flat start was disappointing, but the pies running game is so slick I can see why players were caught out at times. We beat them up around the ball for 3/4’s after that. 

I’ve said all year we need a Vanders but it’s hard in the modern afl to find an expendable nasty/clumsy player.

JVR sat McStay on his backside and he’ll miss next week because of it 

25 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Would you have given up the Fritsch goal

No but after that, I think we could have made a statement. 

And apart from Viney nobody really remonstrated with them.

I'm not saying we needed to knock someone out. Of course not.

But the optics appeared to show us doing nothing. 

I would have expected an all in mallee. One ot tgecteams faves stretched off by a dog act.

Edited September 9, 20231 yr by leave it to deever

2 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

No but after that, I think we could have made a statement. 

If we manage to face the Pies again during this finals campaign. I want May to deck the thug at the very first opportunity 😤😤

On 9/8/2023 at 8:16 AM, John Demonic said:

If last night's loss was such a season ender and concession of flag favouritism to the Pies, why don't we poach their dominant key forward?

Oh wait... They didn't have one.

We have a different method to Collingwood as @old55 and @binman regularly say.

The way we move the ball given our territory dominance means we need good contested markers. This is why we rely so heavily on Max. 

Collingwood are very ordinary (aside from the first quarter) at contested possession (13th league wide). They rely on conceding territory, which leaves space in behind for their kickers and runners to penetrate into an empty forwardline. It's why they don't rely on a key forward.

They play to their list's strengths, which is what we do too. However, without TMac, BB and eventually Petty to compete in the air forward of the ball, we aren't as potent.

As a rule, TMac, BB and Petty are excellent set shots (TMac was unusually wayward, which was a factor in our loss), so IMO we need more genuine class in the air and at ground level.

Petty, I think can be one of those dominant threats in the air, but I think we need a second in the short term that will relegate JVR to the third tall and leave Fritta as the 4th banana, and I reckon that'll elevate JVRs game.

2 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

We have a different method to Collingwood as @old55 and @binman regularly say.

The way we move the ball given our territory dominance means we need good contested markers. This is why we rely so heavily on Max. 

Collingwood are very ordinary (aside from the first quarter) at contested possession (13th league wide). They rely on conceding territory, which leaves space in behind for their kickers and runners to penetrate into an empty forwardline. It's why they don't rely on a key forward.

They play to their list's strengths, which is what we do too. However, without TMac, BB and eventually Petty to compete in the air forward of the ball, we aren't as potent.

As a rule, TMac, BB and Petty are excellent set shots (TMac was unusually wayward, which was a factor in our loss), so IMO we need more genuine class in the air and at ground level.

Petty, I think can be one of those dominant threats in the air, but I think we need a second in the short term that will relegate JVR to the third tall and leave Fritta as the 4th banana, and I reckon that'll elevate JVRs game.

JVR will be great, make no mistake. But I too think he needs more help, we are putting too much pressure on a first year kid.