PREGAME: Rd 18 vs Brisbane

[leave it to deever 16,011]

Not too fussed if we lose Grundy. It's not like the double ruck combo has been crushing it. Grundy really isn't a great mark around the ground as well. Maybe we sneak in another tall up forward and kick some more goals. May be quite fortunate.

Edited July 12, 2023 by leave it to deever

[Demon Dynasty 15,756]

14 minutes ago, MrFreeze said:

Agreed, without Grundy, Gawn would have had to continue to play big TOG% and play through injuries and niggles. We have been effectively managing him, in game, to preserve him long term.

Makes sense post the knee issue.  I don't feel it's the right strategy if Max was fully fit and not in that space though.

I'd want my best ruck to be at his very best and dominating.

Even if it was just say two more seasons, for an improved chance at one more cup vs just plodding along  for longevity sake with the help of another 'ok' ruck and probably missing out.

Hope to be proven wrong, but the extra ruck means you have given up a place for a potential very good KF, inside or outside mid.

When all is said & done i just don't feel the pay off will be worth that sacrifice after we look back and review this decision after another season or two.

For whatever reason, post injury and/or other, at the moment Max looks like a shadow of his former self.  That's not to say he isn't playing some pretty good footy at times.  It's more his body language on the field and in general.  The happy-go-lucky confident Max (on the field) that played with a bit of fire in the belly and freedom appears to be missing somewhat for mine this season.

Edited July 12, 2023 by Demon Dynasty

[rpfc 27,591]

7 minutes ago, Demonland said:

 

This FD needs an honest review of itself at the end of the year if the above means what I think it means.

I, and others, said before we picked him up that it’s a lot to invest in the ruck position.

But now it’s done we have to lean into it, and they sound like we are readdressing the concept…

Max needs to realise he is a fwd first, and the sooner he does, the better he will be and the team.

We are not losing because of the ruck situation.

[Lucifers Hero 37,218]

Interesting if Grundy can't play two back to back games on a 6 day break immediately after he has had 3 x 10 day breaks between games.  Can he be that unfit...

If he had an injury wouldn't we just say so rather than risk having his fitness called into question.

...tending to agree with others that we are trying a one man ruck again.

[Binmans PA 26,296]

34 minutes ago, rpfc said:

This FD needs an honest review of itself at the end of the year if the above means what I think it means.

I, and others, said before we picked him up that it’s a lot to invest in the ruck position.

But now it’s done we have to lean into it, and they sound like we are readdressing the concept…

Max needs to realise he is a fwd first, and the sooner he does, the better he will be and the team.

We are not losing because of the ruck situation.

What it means is we want to manage another of our players, just like we've managed Hibbo, JVR, Chandler, BB and Spargo, and even Bowey. Now it's Grundy's turn, so he's fresh for Adelaide.

[Binmans PA 26,296]

30 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Interesting if Grundy can't play two back to back games on a 6 day break immediately after he has had 3 x 10 day breaks between games.  Can he be that unfit...

If he had an injury wouldn't we just say so rather than risk having his fitness called into question.

...tending to agree with others that we are trying a one man ruck again.

I think it could be both. That we want to try one ruck this week, but going by Chaplin's comments, I'd suggested now would be a good time to rest Grundy.

[Demon Dynasty 15,756]

31 minutes ago, rpfc said:

This FD needs an honest review of itself at the end of the year if the above means what I think it means.

I, and others, said before we picked him up that it’s a lot to invest in the ruck position.

But now it’s done we have to lean into it, and they sound like we are readdressing the concept…

Max needs to realise he is a fwd first, and the sooner he does, the better he will be and the team.

We are not losing because of the ruck situation.

I wasn't aware we were blooding him as a mostly forward.

The CBA numbers don't support this with Max still taking the bulk of them vs Grundy.

Max is also running at 39% accuracy at goals vs Grundy 63% so far this season.

Why would you want your least accurate Ruckman, and by a long margin, up forward?  While Max does take double the number of marks inside 50 each match it's still less than 1 per match (on average) @ 0.8 vs Grundy 0.4  Neither are setting the world on fire in this regards either.

I would argue the premise of looking to turn one of them (or both !!??) into a serious TF option is a flawed concept in itself.

Most teams only ever see the main rucks drift or push forward to stretch the oppos ruck and offer an 'occasional' extra option up forward.

They certainly don't try to turn them into a genuine (regular with serious minutes) forward target if that's what you're suggesting we are attempting to do with Max.

And if we have attempted this (from one or both) the results so far would suggest we shouldn't be.

[Demonland 65,952]

 

[rpfc 27,591]

21 minutes ago, A F said:

What it means is we want to manage another of our players, just like we've managed Hibbo, JVR, Chandler, BB and Spargo, and even Bowey. Now it's Grundy's turn, so he's fresh for Adelaide.

Maybe.

[Roost it far 6,239]

59 minutes ago, rpfc said:

This FD needs an honest review of itself at the end of the year if the above means what I think it means.

I, and others, said before we picked him up that it’s a lot to invest in the ruck position.

But now it’s done we have to lean into it, and they sound like we are readdressing the concept…

Max needs to realise he is a fwd first, and the sooner he does, the better he will be and the team.

We are not losing because of the ruck situation.

If max is a fwd first we are done.

[DeeMee 740]

Really does sound like some more player management a la Cats last year. Doing what many criticised us for not doing in 2022. 

[rpfc 27,591]

15 minutes ago, Demon Dynasty said:

I wasn't aware we were blooding him as a mostly forward.

The CBA numbers don't support this with Max still taking the bulk of them vs Grundy.

Max is also running at 39% accuracy at goals vs Grundy 63% so far this season.

Why would you want your least accurate Ruckman, and by a long margin, up forward?  While Max does take double the number of marks inside 50 each match it's still less than 1 per match (on average) @ 0.8 vs Grundy 0.4  Neither are setting the world on fire in this regards either.

I would argue the premise of looking to turn one of them (or both !!??) into a serious TF option is a flawed concept in itself.

Most teams only ever see the main rucks drift or push forward to stretch the oppos ruck and offer an 'occasional' extra option up forward.

They certainly don't try to turn them into a genuine (regular with serious minutes) forward target if that's what you're suggesting we are attempting to do with Max.

And if we have attempted this (from one or both) the results so far would suggest we shouldn't be.

This isn’t my idea - Stafford, Goodwin, and Gawn himself have talked about the heavier kid forward that Max will/should take. 

They wanted to bring someone in that can actually keep Max out of the ruck - which Grundy is good enough to at his best. 

They are not leaning into their strategy in year one but they do have another 4 years so maybe they will get it going one day…

[rpfc 27,591]

25 minutes ago, A F said:

What it means is we want to manage another of our players, just like we've managed Hibbo, JVR, Chandler, BB and Spargo, and even Bowey. Now it's Grundy's turn, so he's fresh for Adelaide.

Can people get dropped anymore?

[adonski 9,230]

Grundy might have three clubs paying his wage next year at this rate! 

[Fromgotowoewodin 824]

1 minute ago, DeeMee said:

Really does sound like some more player management a la Cats last year. Doing what many criticised us for not doing in 2022. 

Cats did go on a 16-0 run including the GF while resting players, we are.. not quite in the midst of a 16-0 run

[Roost it far 6,239]

I'd take JVR over grundy any day of the week. Play Max as the ruck, JVR or Brown can ruck in the forward half and Petty can take the odd hit out down back. Time for our smalls to lift their attacking vibe.

[Demonland 65,952]

 

[Binmans PA 26,296]

24 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Can people get dropped anymore?

Yep, Smith. Chandler was dropped, but IMO he'll be in the FDs best 22 for the finals. Likewise, Spargo.

[Binmans PA 26,296]

11 minutes ago, Demonland said:

 

Tom likes to stir the pot doesn't he? I doubt he has any sources inside the FD he hasn't burned. 

[leave it to deever 16,011]

1 hour ago, rpfc said:

This FD needs an honest review of itself at the end of the year if the above means what I think it means.

I, and others, said before we picked him up that it’s a lot to invest in the ruck position.

But now it’s done we have to lean into it, and they sound like we are readdressing the concept…

Max needs to realise he is a fwd first, and the sooner he does, the better he will be and the team.

We are not losing because of the ruck situation.

Agreed. We have a real problem with our forward line which is now exacerbated by our number one goal kicker out for awhile. It was our forward line that failed towards the end of last season that saw is go out of finals in straight sets to teams we should have beaten. However the Max Grundy Combo was to supposed to  extent help the loss of Jackson up forward. I believe the FD thought it would add some goal scoring power to the team. Combined, the two have added an avge of just over a goal per game which is pretty low. I would just prefer that we recruited a decent marking CHF instead of this experiment. It's not like it's been cheap either.

[D Rev 301]

Just went back to the Injury page at Melbournefc.com.au and it looks like they've cleaned up the page - maybe they are reading this!

Not so concerned about Grundy being out, hopefully Max goes back to dropping into the backline for intercepts, opening up the fwd line for Brown and JVR.

What is of concern is Oliver is out for another 4 weeks!  It means he will be back for finals, but will he be match or finals fit?

I really think we need to get Smith back into the side too for Melksham, we need someone who can apply pressure acts in finals. Or at least tackle.

[Jaded No More 58,660]

9 minutes ago, A F said:

Tom likes to stir the pot doesn't he? I doubt he has any sources inside the FD he hasn't burned. 

An ambulance chasing trollop.

I have no doubt that we are not happy with how the Gawn/Grundy combo is working, and that we expected a lot more out of it. However I also have no doubt that we are resting Grundy, not relegating him to Casey (who have a bye, so what a good time to 'rest' a player).

He spent 12 months out of the game last year, and is no doubt still building back his fitness. He has been in better form IMO than Gawn, but I think we want to exploit the Lions' distinct lack of speed, especially if Dunkley doesn't play.

It is the one area where we can really expose them, especially on the wide spaces of the MCG. 

 

Edited July 12, 2023 by Jaded No More

[MrFreeze 1,421]

1 hour ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Makes sense post the knee issue.  I don't feel it's the right strategy if Max was fully fit and not in that space though.

I'd want my best ruck to be at his very best and dominating.

Even if it was just say two more seasons, for an improved chance at one more cup vs just plodding along  for longevity sake with the help of another 'ok' ruck and probably missing out.

Hope to be proven wrong, but the extra ruck means you have given up a place for a potential very good KF, inside or outside mid.

When all is said & done i just don't feel the pay off will be worth that sacrifice after we look back and review this decision after another season or two.

For whatever reason, post injury and/or other, at the moment Max looks like a shadow of his former self.  That's not to say he isn't playing some pretty good footy at times.  It's more his body language on the field and in general.  The happy-go-lucky confident Max (on the field) that played with a bit of fire in the belly and freedom appears to be missing somewhat for mine this season.

It might be that the plan was to get as much forward line presence from both big men during the year, then let Gawn rip with full minutes in the late part of the year. We absolutely have a lot to gain with a KPF or extra runner replacing Grundy. But we need to get the timing juuuuust right. 

[Binmans PA 26,296]

2 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

An ambulance chasing trollop.

I have no doubt that we are not happy with how the Gawn/Grundy combo is working, and that we expected a lot more out of it. However I also have no doubt that we are resting Grundy, not relegating him to Casey (who have a bye, so what a good time to 'rest' a player).

He spent 12 months out of the game last year, and is no doubt still building back his fitness. He has been in better form IMO than Gawn, but I think we want to exploit the Lions' distinct lack of speed, especially if Dunkley doesn't play.

It is the one area where we can really expose them, especially on the wide spaces of the MCG. 

 

Haha, I love the word trollop. 

And agree with the rest of your post mate.

[Binmans PA 26,296]

2 minutes ago, MrFreeze said:

It might be that the plan was to get as much forward line presence from both big men during the year, then let Gawn rip with full minutes in the late part of the year. We absolutely have a lot to gain with a KPF or extra runner replacing Grundy. But we need to get the timing juuuuust right. 

I doubt that would have been proposition that would have sold Grundy though. I hope we have an ace up our sleeve in terms of making this work, but let's see.

FWIW, I don't think it's been a failure either, a huge win in many respects. How would we have gone without Grundy when Max went down? But there's no doubt we'd like to get more dominance from both.

Edited July 12, 2023 by A F