POSTGAME: Rd 13 vs Collingwood

[loges 6,767]

3 hours ago, A F said:

I think the cheers outweighing the boos has been massively overplayed on here.

For starters, the Collingwood supporters didn't really have it in them to really try and boo Grundy. The Collingwood supporters around us were cheering and clapping him. So it wasn't just Melbourne supporters drowning out the boos, it was many Collingwood supporters themselves. 

Secondly, the idea that we were louder than them is also a fallacy. We were louder than normal, no doubt. Those in gate 3 in particular made great noise. But when say McCreary ran on to that ball out the back and goaled, there wasn't a louder roar for the day. Lipinski's first was pretty loud too.

The reason we sounded equally loud at times was because we dominated them in general play, which influenced the crowd.

I'd give our crowd a 7 or 8, but Geelong and Hawthorn 2018 finals were still louder and we legit outnumbered them at both those games, whereas it was probably 4-1 supporter wise the other day.

Even more impressive by our supporters then 

[titan_uranus 24,993]

11 hours ago, Bystander said:

Percentages much harder to budge after round 13 compared to round 9.

The reason is a points differential in a game in later rounds has less impact on % as the previous points for and against is greater.

I'm afraid not a very elegant explanation.

I get what you're saying. The longer the season goes, the less impact to percentage each week has.

Still, in Round 13 last year we had a 15.2% gap on Sydney which by the end of the year had closed to 2.6%.

[sue 9,102]

1 hour ago, demosaw said:

That’s exactly what I said. Supposed to bounce within 15 m from where you left the box. It shouldn’t be a shot from 40m.

I think that is correct.  But when a player runs more than 15m in general play, I have the impression umpires pay it from the position where it was when they get around to blowing the whistle.   Is that the case?  Maybe anything else is a bit hard to fix.  But for a kick in there should be no doubt - 15m beyond the square in whatever direction the player was running.  (or less if he was running in circles)

 

Edited June 15, 2023 by sue

[Bigfoot 296]

I hope they were feeling the effects of the flu then my schadenfreude won't have been misplaced.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,206]

4 hours ago, Katrina Dee Fan said:

And the thing is, so many Melbourne supporters, including my late father, was massively haunted by the bloodbath of 1958.

Players too, I've heard Barassi mention he's still filthy about it decades later

[The heart beats true 18,123]

Article in The Age today about State of Origin. Victoria’s starting midfield - Gawn, Tracc, Oliver, and we kindly fitted in Bontempelli, to make other teams feel like we haven’t monopolised the midfield.

Other teams must hate playing us. Nice that they left out Viney too. Go ahead, make him mad, I dare you. 

[jnrmac 20,058]

1 hour ago, Jaded No More said:

I am only willing to contribute to the pet membership numbers

There's a law against that 

[Dee Dee 1,108]

I must admit that I have not read every post in this particular discussion, but one thing I want to mention is the number of children I saw of the match in Melbourne colours: very pleasing indeed. My grandson got his jumper autographed by Kozzy Pickett before the match and after the match, high-fived by Max Gawn: best day at the football ever he reckons. Lots of kids now growing up as Demons supporters😀!

 

Edited June 15, 2023 by Dee Dee

[Bystander 903]

4 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

I get what you're saying. The longer the season goes, the less impact to percentage each week has.

Still, in Round 13 last year we had a 15.2% gap on Sydney which by the end of the year had closed to 2.6%.

Correct...just thought I would point it out as many get confused. 

[Kozzie4PM 765]

8 hours ago, A F said:

My understanding is the broadcaster places microphones strategically, to ensure the loudest noises/cheers/boos etc. Makes sense, right? So that's a bit of a furphy as well. The true test is at the ground itself. It sounds like we heard it differently.

Again, obviously, this is influenced by where you sit to an extent as well, but I've never heard a big game with 80,000+ fans so quiet for large patches of the match. It was eerily quiet at points as if the crowd was holding its collective breath. Influenced in part by the low scoring of course.

It was quite an unusual game in that respect, but I can't recall the last time we dominated Collingwood in general play in Melbourne (we did in that Gabba game in 2020), so to me it was a combination of inevitably that we'd hit the front from the Collingwood supporters and potentially the fact Collingwood had spent a week laying the ground for excuses about COVID, flu and missing players.

Plus, the psychological benefits of already being three games clear at the top, all of these factors, IMV, influenced the noise level of their mob. I’ve never sat around so many Collingwood supporters who were so subdued for pretty much the entirety of a game. Last year they were absolutely insufferable. 

Yeh there was a bit of poetic license with that - at least one pie around me was clapping. 

They were quiet because they couldn't get it past the centre. 

[Engorged Onion 10,215]

8 hours ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

Great post.  I think you are perhaps bit harsh on King when our coach nearly in EVERY post game talk has banged on about lack of connection.

It has literally come from our coach on multitudes of occasions.

That is not King making it up or pulling it from a rabbits hat...Nor does he have the time to talk for 3-4 minutes straight on any given subject,.   How much depth can be given on any area that basically gives you less than a minute to explain.

I mean explain tanking to me in under a minute.

It takes a lot of quantifying to be solid in your facts..You surely know this!

Personally i don't believe any of the footy shows really have great analysis but King/Montagna are doing a better job at it than many others i am seeing.

I mean i have never seen anything from Robbo or Gerard in this regard.

I am sure you could do better analysis than some of the media clowns but i bet you would struggle also given 45 secs to show some vision and comprehensively explain...It aint gunna happen.

Remember Goodwin 4/5 years ago spoke about Fugazi. Well ,him talking about our lack of connection, considering the current context - is Meta-Fugazi. He is happily perpetuating the myth.

(for those that love the band, I look forward to seeing your chosen Youtube clip) 👌

Edited June 15, 2023 by Engorged Onion

[Red and Bluebeard 2,084]

6 hours ago, demosaw said:

That’s exactly what I said. Supposed to bounce within 15 m from where you left the box. It shouldn’t be a shot from 40m.

Ok. I misinterpreted what you said.  All good.

[D4Life 2,469]

What were the coaches votes?

[Dr. Gonzo 24,206]

1 hour ago, D4Life said:

What were the coaches votes?

10 Jack Viney (MELB)
7 Steven May (MELB)
4 Christian Salem (MELB)
3 Jack Crisp (COLL)
2 Max Gawn (MELB)
2 Bayley Fritsch (MELB)
1 Christian Petracca (MELB)
1 Tom Mitchell (COLL)

[layzie 33,793]

The coach's votes were excellent. 

[redandbluemakepurple 358]

9 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Players too, I've heard Barassi mention he's still filthy about it decades later (1958 GF)

Back in the 80's out at Waverley, a lubricated Melbourne supporter explained to me that an MFC player died as a result as in injury in the 1958 GF and he placed a deathbed curse on them.

Whereas at my daughter's Primary School, the wisdom was that Collingwood had to dig up a Magpie that had been buried between the goals in order to win the 1990 GF after 32 years.

Just making small talk.

[layzie 33,793]

5 minutes ago, redandbluemakepurple said:

Back in the 80's out at Waverley, a lubricated Melbourne supporter explained to me that an MFC player died as a result as in injury in the 1958 GF and he placed a deathbed curse on them.

Whereas at my daughter's Primary School, the wisdom was that Collingwood had to dig up a Magpie that had been buried between the goals in order to win the 1990 GF after 32 years.

Just making small talk.

Everyone loves a good curse/hex/voodoo/omen. Keeps things interesting.

[whatwhat say what 22,737]

25 minutes ago, redandbluemakepurple said:

Whereas at my daughter's Primary School, the wisdom was that Collingwood had to dig up a Magpie that had been buried between the goals in order to win the 1990 GF after 32 years.

please, everyone knows the only reason the filth won in 1990 and 2010 is cos the grand finals weren't in september

[Trisul 664]

13 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

I agree with you to an extent.

Look, I guess I just wanna believe that we exceeded them noise- and passion-wise. Surely there’s no harm in letting us bask in this for a bit, even if it is partly wishful thinking. We need this feeling. It should bode well for our next match and hopefully beyond. 

Operation Pump Up the Volume has begun!

[layzie 33,793]

13 minutes ago, Trisul said:

Operation Pump Up the Volume has begun!

I've got a boombox.

[Kozzie4PM 765]

21 hours ago, Macca said:

We punch way above our weight with regards to membership, crowd numbers etc etc

There are a few here who think that we should have Collingwood or Richmond type support after winning 1 flag in 6 decades

They are not being realistic as we're 10 years behind and would need to be in contention for 8 of the next 10 years to even go close to catching all the way up

We just don't have that many supporters compared to the big clubs

And we are not sleeping giants either.  Our supporter build will take some time (manic, huge support like the big clubs)

That's not to say we don't have good support, we do.  Just not in big numbers

I reckon the actual membership numbers cloud the thinking ... right across the board, for all the clubs, probably only about 25% - 35% of members attend games

Many are happy to just plough their money into the club as a way of feeling connected

This is the most sensible post I've seen on crowds. The amount of drivel that gets spoken about our crowds from our fans and outsiders alike is unbelievable.

[binman 42,888]

23 hours ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

Great post.  I think you are perhaps bit harsh on King when our coach nearly in EVERY post game talk has banged on about lack of connection.

It has literally come from our coach on multitudes of occasions.

That is not King making it up or pulling it from a rabbits hat...Nor does he have the time to talk for 3-4 minutes straight on any given subject,.   How much depth can be given on any area that basically gives you less than a minute to explain.

I mean explain tanking to me in under a minute.

It takes a lot of quantifying to be solid in your facts..You surely know this!

Personally i don't believe any of the footy shows really have great analysis but King/Montagna are doing a better job at it than many others i am seeing.

I mean i have never seen anything from Robbo or Gerard in this regard.

I am sure you could do better analysis than some of the media clowns but i bet you would struggle also given 45 secs to show some vision and comprehensively explain...It aint gunna happen.

Goody has banged on about our lack of connection EVERY post game talk?

What alternate reality is this?

One, the only thing he was asked about in relation to our forward line up until after the hawks win is what our best line up looks like. Connection NEVER came up!

Why?

Because we were a scoring  machine, having scored more than 100 points in five of the nine games we had played after demolishing the hawks (when we again broke the ton - with only 2 less scoring shots than against the pies i might add) - including scores of 115, 135, 126, 139!

Oh, he was also often asked about, and spoke to, our stunning accuracy (still #AFL 1).

Actually now that I think about it, he also spoke about our nuts spread of goal kickers (AFL#1), including our record breaking spread in the hawks game.

In his pressers since the port game, in response to ignorant questions about our forward line and supposed connection issues, Goody has pointed out MULTIPLE times that we are the highest scoring team as evidence of good connection and a forward line that is functioning well.

And again after the pies win, when asked about accuracy, he couldn't have been more emphatic - it was 'the least of our problems', noting that accuracy had only been a problem in the previous 3 games.

By the by, it is worth noting that in those 3 games (port, freo, blues) we still had more than 20 scoring shots, which again makes a lie of any supposed connection issues.

In fact the only time I can recall Goody talking about forward connection in anythimg but a postive way was in the presser following the pies game.

Having already said scoring is not an issue for us (we had just had 26 scoring shots for petes sake), he was again asked a stupid question about connection and he said something about the new mix of players and young players taking time to build synergy. 

King is not making it up or pulling it from a rabbits hat?  Of course he is. That's my point. 

When I talk about why it is an issue when the media pushes some stupid false narrative that the objective facts completely contradict, it is because it distorts fans understanding of the game.

And the problem is compounded because fans accept and then reinforce the false narrative. And in this example (the connection myth), ignore the objective facts.

It is mind boggling.

Edited June 15, 2023 by binman

[jnrmac 20,058]

20 minutes ago, binman said:

When I talk about why it is an issue when the media pushes some stupid false narrative that the objective facts completely contradict, it is because it distorts fans understanding of the game.

And the problem is compounded because fans accept and then reinforce the false narrative. And in this example (the connection myth), ignore the objective facts.

It is mind boggling.

Commentators bang on about it because it was a problem 3/4 years ago. And it was talked about often. And most of them are pig ignorant about issues like this. They parrot the same old stuff.

The other thing that adds to it is the fact we don't have a Key goal kicker like most other clubs. We have Fritch but McDonald, Petty, Brown etc aren't kicking bags.

Its lazy to say we have a connection issue because our scoring shots and results are clear evidence we don't.

But if you asked any coach if they would prefer 10 goal kickers in a game or one guy who kicks 10 goals I am pretty sure we know what the answer would be,

[jnrmac 20,058]

Another issue that has been bugging me is commentators piling on Fritsch after he was thumped in the chest with significant pressure, while looking the other way and not prepared for contact - surprise surprise he fell to the ground.

Calling him for staging.

Pizzes me off big time. Don't thump guys off the ball  and especially when they are not looking. Its a free every single time.

Not one commentator called them out on it.

[rpfc 28,383]

I went to the Freo and Carlton games; we had issues turning turnover into quick forward movement that ended with a deep entry into the 50. It was stagnant or weirdly daring and not on same wavelength across players.

Goodwin bangs on every week about how we are not the finished product and who would be - footy seasons are marathons.

To that end; I have no idea why some are so offended by statements that we are not there yet with our connection. By definition of our dominant press last week - it had not been to that level this season - it is something that has improved.

I expect the forward line to get better with its movement and with our ability to deliver into the forward line with deep entries that will improve or goal kicking accuracy.

It is not ridiculous or ludicrous or whatever other adjective one may have - it’s footy. Either you IMPROVE over the season or you don’t - and last year we didn’t and got worked over amongst other issues.