CASEY: Rd 10 vs Werribee

[spirit of norm smith 16,588]

5 hours ago, Roost it far said:

My view after watching the last 2 games

Jefferson a bust….I’ll sell my house if he makes it

Woewodin almost good enough

Schache uninspiring but maybe needed

Brown cooked like the last snag on the bbq at 10pm on GF night

Sestan miles away

MW never make it

Turner play him in the ones FFS

Melksham yesterdays news

 

I saw the Casey game and I’m worried.  
Lucas Cook.  Sam Weideman.  Let’s hope Jefferson does make it.  

The JT pick worried me at the time.  After the weekend, it still worries me !!! We live in hope. 

[spirit of norm smith 16,588]

Ps. Depth.  What depth ???? 

[dworship 3,342]

On 5/28/2023 at 9:29 PM, Roost it far said:

Relax, I’d love the kid to make it. I just look at him play and see nothing special. 

Just so I don't offend you; what are your expectations of a 19yr old, 195cm, 86kg forward in the first year? What makes the same player a bust in your myopic view.

[Roost it far 8,590]

49 minutes ago, dworship said:

Just so I don't offend you; what are your expectations of a 19yr old, 195cm, 86kg forward in the first year? What makes the same player a bust in your myopic view.

There’s no presence, like comparing Jack Watts and Jonathan Brown. Same size, same skills…..very different outcome. Jefferson doesn’t have Watts skills either.

[jnrmac 20,185]

On 5/28/2023 at 5:08 PM, Roost it far said:

My view after watching the last 2 games

Jefferson a bust….I’ll sell my house if he makes it

 

I was against the recruitment of Jefferson. Said at the time there were no highlights in his highlight reel. Nothing stood out about any if his attributes. Was howled down at the time,

But....we recruited him and he is young and slight. Needs to get 10kgs and some mongrel to make an impact. I think its almost impossible to train mongrel though. You can see from JVR that he relishes a hard contest and really throws his body in. That's largely innate. 

Still, we support MJ until proven otherwise. Taylor has runs on the board.

[Roost it far 8,590]

26 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

I was against the recruitment of Jefferson. Said at the time there were no highlights in his highlight reel. Nothing stood out about any if his attributes. Was howled down at the time,

But....we recruited him and he is young and slight. Needs to get 10kgs and some mongrel to make an impact. I think its almost impossible to train mongrel though. You can see from JVR that he relishes a hard contest and really throws his body in. That's largely innate. 

Still, we support MJ until proven otherwise. Taylor has runs on the board.

I’m not not supporting him, I just don’t see him making it. It’s just my opinion and in a world full of them it’s meaningless……although likely correct 😂

[Cranky Franky 2,091]

3 hours ago, dworship said:

Just so I don't offend you; what are your expectations of a 19yr old, 195cm, 86kg forward in the first year? What makes the same player a bust in your myopic view.

As I've said I watched Jefferson in 4 games & you would expect a high draft pick like him to show something at VFL level, not to star or dominate but the odd sign of future potential but all I've seen is Michael Newton or Lucas Cook so far.

[dee-tox 4,835]

4 hours ago, Cranky Franky said:

As I've said I watched Jefferson in 4 games & you would expect a high draft pick like him to show something at VFL level, not to star or dominate but the odd sign of future potential but all I've seen is Michael Newton or Lucas Cook so far.

So you saw nothing when he kicked four goals in only his second game against the Swans? 

[Cranky Franky 2,091]

5 hours ago, dee-tox said:

So you saw nothing when he kicked four goals in only his second game against the Swans? 

Oops I didn't see that game so I stand corrected but gee he is skinny.

[poita 3,902]

Re Jefferson, I've said it previously, but we are not helping him by having Brown, Schache, Smith, Sestan & Melksham playing ahead of him in the forward line.

I still think Brown can offer something this year, and Sestan is a work in progress, but the others are clearly impeding Jefferson's development.

That said, Jefferson looks a million miles off at the moment and that is a concern. Van Rooyen had an impact at Casey last year, and is still getting pushed around at AFL level. How is Jefferson going to make the leap when he can't get involved in the VFL?

[Redleg 41,428]

2 minutes ago, poita said:

Re Jefferson, I've said it previously, but we are not helping him by having Brown, Schache, Smith, Sestan & Melksham playing ahead of him in the forward line.

I still think Brown can offer something this year, and Sestan is a work in progress, but the others are clearly impeding Jefferson's development.

That said, Jefferson looks a million miles off at the moment and that is a concern. Van Rooyen had an impact at Casey last year, and is still getting pushed around at AFL level. How is Jefferson going to make the leap when he can't get involved in the VFL?

2 of those could be gone next year and another pre season and weights etc, could see him add some more muscle, which will help his development.

[Sydee 4,529]

6 hours ago, dee-tox said:

So you saw nothing when he kicked four goals in only his second game against the Swans? 

Just to be fair I think a couple of those were pretty soft including one handed to him in the goal square where he was standing by himself on the goal line. JVR kicked 36 goals last year and crashed packs and took plenty of marks around the ground. Some people (not me) were calling for his promotion to the AFL in the last half of the VFL season.

I'm not prepared to write MJ off but his output atm is a concern he looks way off the pace even as a young lightly built forward.

He has the remainder of this season to try and impact more - if he hasn't progressed at all by the end of the season, I think it's not unreasonable to start having some doubts. 

[Bystander 903]

3 hours ago, Sydee said:

Just to be fair I think a couple of those were pretty soft including one handed to him in the goal square where he was standing by himself on the goal line. JVR kicked 36 goals last year and crashed packs and took plenty of marks around the ground. Some people (not me) were calling for his promotion to the AFL in the last half of the VFL season.

I'm not prepared to write MJ off but his output atm is a concern he looks way off the pace even as a young lightly built forward.

He has the remainder of this season to try and impact more - if he hasn't progressed at all by the end of the season, I think it's not unreasonable to start having some doubts. 

Exactly right.

[dworship 3,342]

On 5/30/2023 at 8:24 PM, Roost it far said:

There’s no presence, like comparing Jack Watts and Jonathan Brown. Same size, same skills…..very different outcome. Jefferson doesn’t have Watts skills either.

I'm fascinated by the comparison and the 20/20 hindsight. So you saw presence in Brown and none in Watts in the first 6months of their respective careers. Can you give a more detailed explanation of "presence" or is it just a vibe?

[Redlagged 813]

On 5/30/2023 at 9:39 PM, Roost it far said:

I’m not not supporting him, I just don’t see him making it. It’s just my opinion and in a world full of them it’s meaningless……although likely correct 😂

You're right. It's meaningless.

[dazzledavey36 55,320]

Wasn't a fan of the Jefferson selection at all last year, still not, but I'm not willing to write him off straight away.

The games I've seen him play this year has so far been disappointing with his output 

[Dee-licious 1,954]

Jefferson is a great mark and a good kick. He is a different player than JVR and doesn’t have the size to impose himself - not unlike Fritch. He has more in his kit bag than Cook and Newton and let’s not forget Watts played 200 games. If we get 200 games from Jefferson we’ve done well. 

[Roost it far 8,590]

11 hours ago, dworship said:

I'm fascinated by the comparison and the 20/20 hindsight. So you saw presence in Brown and none in Watts in the first 6months of their respective careers. Can you give a more detailed explanation of "presence" or is it just a vibe?

Jonathan Brown oozed presence. A blind man could see it. Watts never had it, that was clear from day 1. It's not to say he was soft because none of them are. It's just that some players live for the contest and others don't.

[Demonsterative 3,020]

I too, was not overly enthusiastic when we took Jefferson. I became enthusiastic with his VFL start and have tempered again. My worry with drafting Jefferson was he was not a high possession winning junior, but he could lead, mark and kick straight.

What I have liked about watching him at VFL he showed he was not a one trick pony as a leading forward, he has manufactured goals in other ways. He is a kid who has been pushing his body to the limits and he was always going to taper off. No need to catastrophise yet.. 

[Axis of Bob 11,844]

So 18 year old 95kg man-child Jonathan Brown and 18 year old 95kg man-child Jacob Van Rooyen had 'presence' at a in their first year but developing 80kg tall forward Matt Jefferson won't make it because he doesn't have presence. 

Cool insights. 

Interestingly, in his first 8 games Van Rooyen had 54 disposals (7.1 per game) which included one game where he had 22 possessions (in a game where we kicked 177 points in a 110 point win), and 3 games where he didn't even have 6 touches. In that time he kicked 15 goals 6 behinds. He also got the freedom of playing part time ruck to pad some of those numbers.

In his first 8 games, Jefferson had 64 disposals (8 per game) and kicked 10 goals 8 behinds. It backs up my thoughts that generally people are terrible at remembering the past. Jefferson is basically performing as well as Roo at this point of his career despite being far less developed. 

What I think is really interesting is that prior to Ben Brown coming into the VFL team in round 5, Jefferson averaged 10.5 disposals, 3.8 marks and 3.3 shots at goal per game. When he plays with Brown those numbers drop to 5.2 disposals, 2.6 marks and 1.2 shots at goal per game. Also interestingly, when we only played 2 recognised tall forwards (in rounds 2, 3, and 4), he kicked 7 goals. 

Edited June 2, 2023 by Axis of Bob

[Bystander 903]

37 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

So 18 year old 95kg man-child Jonathan Brown and 18 year old 95kg man-child Jacob Van Rooyen had 'presence' at a in their first year but developing 80kg tall forward Matt Jefferson won't make it because he doesn't have presence. 

Cool insights. 

Interestingly, in his first 8 games Van Rooyen had 54 disposals (7.1 per game) which included one game where he had 22 possessions (in a game where we kicked 177 points in a 110 point win), and 3 games where he didn't even have 6 touches. In that time he kicked 15 goals 6 behinds. He also got the freedom of playing part time ruck to pad some of those numbers.

In his first 8 games, Jefferson had 64 disposals (8 per game) and kicked 10 goals 8 behinds. It backs up my thoughts that generally people are terrible at remembering the past. Jefferson is basically performing as well as Roo at this point of his career despite being far less developed. 

What I think is really interesting is that prior to Ben Brown coming into the VFL team in round 5, Jefferson averaged 10.5 disposals, 3.8 marks and 3.3 shots at goal per game. When he plays with Brown those numbers drop to 5.2 disposals, 2.6 marks and 1.2 shots at goal per game. Also interestingly, when we only played 2 recognised tall forwards (in rounds 2, 3, and 4), he kicked 7 goals. 

Will watch his game tomorrow with added interest. He doesn't look like he wants it too much. I hope to be pleasantly surprised.

Edited June 2, 2023 by Bystander

[whatwhat say what 22,942]

14 hours ago, Dee-licious said:

Jefferson is a great mark and a good kick. He is a different player than JVR and doesn’t have the size to impose himself - not unlike Fritch. He has more in his kit bag than Cook and Newton and let’s not forget Watts played 200 games. If we get 200 games from Jefferson we’ve done well. 

watts played 153 games with mfc, 21 with pafc, and was dropped by every single coach he had at afl level

i hope we get a lot more out of jefferson than we ever did with watts

the most we ever got out of watts was the draft pick we used to pick fritsch

Edited June 2, 2023 by whatwhat say what

[Roost it far 8,590]

2 hours ago, Axis of Bob said:

So 18 year old 95kg man-child Jonathan Brown and 18 year old 95kg man-child Jacob Van Rooyen had 'presence' at a in their first year but developing 80kg tall forward Matt Jefferson won't make it because he doesn't have presence. 

Cool insights. 

Interestingly, in his first 8 games Van Rooyen had 54 disposals (7.1 per game) which included one game where he had 22 possessions (in a game where we kicked 177 points in a 110 point win), and 3 games where he didn't even have 6 touches. In that time he kicked 15 goals 6 behinds. He also got the freedom of playing part time ruck to pad some of those numbers.

In his first 8 games, Jefferson had 64 disposals (8 per game) and kicked 10 goals 8 behinds. It backs up my thoughts that generally people are terrible at remembering the past. Jefferson is basically performing as well as Roo at this point of his career despite being far less developed. 

What I think is really interesting is that prior to Ben Brown coming into the VFL team in round 5, Jefferson averaged 10.5 disposals, 3.8 marks and 3.3 shots at goal per game. When he plays with Brown those numbers drop to 5.2 disposals, 2.6 marks and 1.2 shots at goal per game. Also interestingly, when we only played 2 recognised tall forwards (in rounds 2, 3, and 4), he kicked 7 goals. 

Ok, bar stats, which can be used to show basically anything, what is it you see in Jefferson that excites you? I mean I watch him and I just don't see an imposing AFL forward in the making. 

Edited June 2, 2023 by Roost it far

[rjay 25,088]

5 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

Ok, bar stats, which can be used to show basically anything what is it you see in Jefferson that excites you. I mean I watch him and I just don't see an imposing AFL forward in the making. 

I'm concerned by him as well..

...but he reads the ball well in flight, has good hands and can kick.

I would love him to come out and take over the forward line at Casey, saying get out of the way old men to BBB and Tommy, you've had your time.

That's not going to happen.

He's going to be an interesting watch.

[Redleg 41,428]

4 hours ago, Roost it far said:

Jonathan Brown oozed presence. A blind man could see it. Watts never had it, that was clear from day 1. It's not to say he was soft because none of them are. It's just that some players live for the contest and others don't.

If Watts was with us now, he would be best 22 every week.