3 hours ago, Willy's Warriors said:

I think a lot of the concerns over Jefferson's height and weight are overblown.

195cm and 84kg isn't that small.  By comparison: 

- Jeremy Cameron was 196cm and 86kg (https://www.afl.com.au/news/58887/jeremy-cameron) on his draft night; 
- Lance Franklin was 197cm and under 90kg on his draft night (https://www.topendsports.com/sport/afl/combine/results-2004.htm)  
- Jedd Busslinger (pick 13 from this draft) is 196cm and 83kg and Cadman (pick 1) is 195cm and 92kg.  
- Sam Darcy (pick 2 from 2021) was 204cm and 75kg on draft night; Mac Andrew (pick 5) was 200cm and 70kg; Josh Gibcus (pick 9) was 196cm and 87kg (see https://www.afl.com.au/news/685788/cal-twomey-s-phantom-form-guide-top-draft-prospects-october-ranking); 
- Jamarra (pick 1 from 2020) was 195cm and 90kg; Riley Thilthorpe (pick 2) was 201cm and 100kg; Logan McDonald was 196cm and 86kg (pick 4); and Denver Grainger-Barrass was 195kg and 78 kg (pick 6) (https://www.afl.com.au/news/527263/cal-twomeys-2020-phantom-draft-top-30-your-clubs-whispers). 

195cm and 84kg seems about right for a key forward in the top 10-15 range.  Looks like forwards with a more developed body usually get taken very early (Cadman, Jamarra, Thilthorpe). 

Jefferson will need time to fill out (as all key position players do).  Even Cadman is unlikely to make a huge impact next year.  That's unfortunate, as we really need another KPF to cover Brown and McDonald (or, even better, complement them).   

I don't think there are many better options available, sadly.  Its hard and expensive to get a genuinely talented KPF on the open market, so you're left with people like Dan McStay or Rory Lobb who are expensive and haven't kicked more than 30 goals in a season. 

It looks like we might have been interested in Humphrey as a tough half forward who is likely to be ready earlier, but that didn't pan out. 

In the circumstances, picking Jefferson may not be ideal, as we will have to wait until he's ready, which won't be next year.  Still, I think its probably the best thing we could have done.  Him and JVR could be the foundation of future success, even if they don't win us a flag next year. 

 

While  respect your opinion and agree to some degree it's the total forward Lind that matters. Tmac Will if fit open the ways for the mids and smalls and JVR is a very crafty player for his weight and size. He is no one trick pony gets goals from different ways and is a team player.

BBB May be fit and we have our best furwards in Fritta and Kossie who are kicking nearly 100 goals between themselves. 

 Faster game plan and better passing will assist us I believe Harry Petty should be tried at CHF or FF. 

We can definitely win the Flag in 2023 as little things didn't go our way in 2022.

we have some potential players who may be ready for AFL also. 

We are one if the teams that can bridge the gap and beat the Cats at our best. 
 

20 hours ago, Willy's Warriors said:

I think a lot of the concerns over Jefferson's height and weight are overblown.

195cm and 84kg isn't that small.  By comparison: 

- Jeremy Cameron was 196cm and 86kg (https://www.afl.com.au/news/58887/jeremy-cameron) on his draft night; 
- Lance Franklin was 197cm and under 90kg on his draft night (https://www.topendsports.com/sport/afl/combine/results-2004.htm)  
- Jedd Busslinger (pick 13 from this draft) is 196cm and 83kg and Cadman (pick 1) is 195cm and 92kg.  
- Sam Darcy (pick 2 from 2021) was 204cm and 75kg on draft night; Mac Andrew (pick 5) was 200cm and 70kg; Josh Gibcus (pick 9) was 196cm and 87kg (see https://www.afl.com.au/news/685788/cal-twomey-s-phantom-form-guide-top-draft-prospects-october-ranking); 
- Jamarra (pick 1 from 2020) was 195cm and 90kg; Riley Thilthorpe (pick 2) was 201cm and 100kg; Logan McDonald was 196cm and 86kg (pick 4); and Denver Grainger-Barrass was 195kg and 78 kg (pick 6) (https://www.afl.com.au/news/527263/cal-twomeys-2020-phantom-draft-top-30-your-clubs-whispers). 

195cm and 84kg seems about right for a key forward in the top 10-15 range.  Looks like forwards with a more developed body usually get taken very early (Cadman, Jamarra, Thilthorpe). 

Jefferson will need time to fill out (as all key position players do).  Even Cadman is unlikely to make a huge impact next year.  That's unfortunate, as we really need another KPF to cover Brown and McDonald (or, even better, complement them).   

I don't think there are many better options available, sadly.  Its hard and expensive to get a genuinely talented KPF on the open market, so you're left with people like Dan McStay or Rory Lobb who are expensive and haven't kicked more than 30 goals in a season. 

It looks like we might have been interested in Humphrey as a tough half forward who is likely to be ready earlier, but that didn't pan out. 

In the circumstances, picking Jefferson may not be ideal, as we will have to wait until he's ready, which won't be next year.  Still, I think its probably the best thing we could have done.  Him and JVR could be the foundation of future success, even if they don't win us a flag next year. 

 

Thanks Willy I appreciate those stats I imagine that all tallish recruits are put on specialist diets and a rigorous strengthening regime to help them get the most out of their opportunities. It will be interesting to see how Jefferson, Adams, Verral and Kyah progress over the next 12-18 months.!!

23 hours ago, 58er said:

1,2,3,or4.!!!!!!!

Any other questions?

How many Flags will he play in at Melb. ?

Anything to oblige a fan.

Whats jeffos height, weight and how tall is he?

Do you think he looks taller in imperial or metric measurements?

 

21 hours ago, Willy's Warriors said:

I don't think there are many better options available, sadly.  Its hard and expensive to get a genuinely talented KPF on the open market, so you're left with people like Dan McStay or Rory Lobb who are expensive and haven't kicked more than 30 goals in a season. 

Well thought out post overall.

Lobb actually kicked 36 goals this year and must have been heavily considered by our club (prior to settling on Grundy) as a very solid forward/ruck option given T Mac had a serious foot injury, Jackson was half way out the door and BBB had a poor year and has a chronic knee issue. 

Jefferson looks like a natural footballer with good instincts. Will be a gun player.

4 hours ago, Ugottobekidding said:

Jefferson looks like a natural footballer with good instincts. Will be a gun player.

No pressure on the lad - maybe "could well be a gun player" would be a better way of putting it, if all falls into place physically and mentally.

Over the years I have heard so many time "..x.. will be a gun".   Rarely can one tell so soon - Petracca and Oliver being very obvious exceptions from day 1.

21 hours ago, monoccular said:

No pressure on the lad - maybe "could well be a gun player" would be a better way of putting it, if all falls into place physically and mentally.

Over the years I have heard so many time "..x.. will be a gun".   Rarely can one tell so soon - Petracca and Oliver being very obvious exceptions from day 1.

Will be a gun player 😜

12 hours ago, Ugottobekidding said:

Will be a gun player 😜

I am backing Jeffer to be a gun 

Has some very good football skills as a base. Also some X factor ones to add. 

I wish the lad well. He wouldn't have been my pick but he is now a Melbourne player and I am happy to support him.

24 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

I wish the lad well. He wouldn't have been my pick but he is now a Melbourne player and I am happy to support him.

With you. 

All the best to him, don't think we'll be seeing him anytime soon though given how raw he is both physically and the way he plays. 

True JimmyG but keep in mind that Jeffo starred against players in his own age group so our dieticians and fitness staff will be working overtime to build up Jefferson, Addams, Verral and Kyah and top up Rooey for 2023. These boys are out future but you can’t put limitations on them either.

1 hour ago, jnrmac said:

I wish the lad well. He wouldn't have been my pick but he is now a Melbourne player and I am happy to support him.

Who would you have picked?

3 hours ago, picket fence said:

Who would you have picked?

Its irrelevant but I would say the club was actively trying to climb up the draft order because the players like Phillipou were significantly better.

I saw nothing in his highlights or other clips that demonstrated any aggression or physicality. He looks like a nice schoolboy player. And aggression and physicality IMO can't be taught or learned. A bit like Weid.

Cant think of one successful KPP that doesn't have it. So I would say the odds are against him being the one to do it.

7 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Its irrelevant but I would say the club was actively trying to climb up the draft order because the players like Phillipou were significantly better.

I saw nothing in his highlights or other clips that demonstrated any aggression or physicality. He looks like a nice schoolboy player. And aggression and physicality IMO can't be taught or learned. A bit like Weid.

Cant think of one successful KPP that doesn't have it. So I would say the odds are against him being the one to do it.

I think it was more so for Bailey Humphrey's. 

I'm the bit the same. He certainly shows some talent and I'm slowly starting to maybe come around to him, but I'm not fully sold.

He's years away from at least competing physically with the bigger defenders of the game.

I honestly see him as the Jack Watts floating 3rd tall and not the key position forward some are hoping for.

25 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

I saw nothing in his highlights or other clips that demonstrated any aggression or physicality. He looks like a nice schoolboy player. And aggression and physicality IMO can't be taught or learned. A bit like Weid.

Cant think of one successful KPP that doesn't have it. So I would say the odds are against him being the one to do it.

I’d argue none of Peter Wright, Harry McKay, Todd Marshall or Mabior Chol demonstrated more that rarest occasion of aggression or physicality until they were 22-23 years old. Now they are some of the best key forwards in the game.

Jefferson reads the flight and attacks the ball in the air strongly, once he gets stronger that can be developed to attacking those in the way too. 

It would be nice if he did have a natural inclination for crunching bodies but if he works hard and is resilient there’s no reason he can’t develop that to a decent level.

I’m actually more concerned he doesn’t have the athleticism, skills or height to become a really potent weapon. Given many talls are now closing in on 2m and have agility and/or pace like midfielders it’s harder going if you don’t have a weapon like that.

 

I can remember those against recruiting Fritch. 

"Cale Morton comparisons, jack watts 2.0, too skinny, too slow. Hard to see where he will fit into the side."

Recruiting him was a deesaster for the Bulldogs.

 

 

2 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

I’d argue none of Peter Wright, Harry McKay, Todd Marshall or Mabior Chol demonstrated more that rarest occasion of aggression or physicality until they were 22-23 years old. Now they are some of the best key forwards in the game.

Jefferson reads the flight and attacks the ball in the air strongly, once he gets stronger that can be developed to attacking those in the way too. 

It would be nice if he did have a natural inclination for crunching bodies but if he works hard and is resilient there’s no reason he can’t develop that to a decent level.

I’m actually more concerned he doesn’t have the athleticism, skills or height to become a really potent weapon. Given many talls are now closing in on 2m and have agility and/or pace like midfielders it’s harder going if you don’t have a weapon like that.

 

Fritta says hi! And a Ridiculous comment.

in football it takes all different sizes and skills to be successful. Some have brawn snd physical presence a la Tommy Hawkins. Others have quick movement great athleticism like Jeremy Cameron.

Tom Lynch is a great mark has height and is a great lead. Tmac uses his body and provides a role for marking and assisting his smaller teammates.kick goals. Lastly Fritta is a medium who has exsquisite skills and X factor ball attack both in the air or on the ground.

I say MJ has some Fritta skills is the best mark due to his hands and great skill in picking up flight of the ball and has the ability to get goals in different ways.This will happen either ways whether he is a KPF or second or third forward as he is a good footballer in with some other class goal kickers. 

 

On 12/5/2022 at 5:09 PM, Ugottobekidding said:

I can remember those against recruiting Fritch. 

"Cale Morton comparisons, jack watts 2.0, too skinny, too slow. Hard to see where he will fit into the side."

Recruiting him was a deesaster for the Bulldogs.

 

 

Fritsch had outstanding form at Casey. 

I just rewatched these two highlights clips purely for their marks, for someone who apparently shows no physicality Jefferson seems to not only throw himself into marking contests, also reads the flight of the ball well and uses his leap and body to protect the ball drop and take countless contested marks. Cadman also takes some nice contested marks but doesn’t seem to have the leap or aerial attributes that Jefferson does. They are clearly two different types of forwards. I will be watching both careers with great interest.

 

They are both mobile with great hands, Cadman looks slightly ahead build wise but both players read the play so well. Jeffo needs 6kg this pre-season and another 6-8 over the 2023 season and watch out.!!

1 hour ago, DeeZone said:

They are both mobile with great hands, Cadman looks slightly ahead build wise but both players read the play so well. Jeffo needs 6kg this pre-season and another 6-8 over the 2023 season and watch out.!!

Jefferson is slightly taller and, at 18 years old, still has the capacity to grow a few centimetres.

2 minutes ago, Freddy Fuschia said:

Jefferson is slightly taller and, at 18 years old, still has the capacity to grow a few centimetres.

? both 195cm  (acc to draft central)

2 hours ago, DeeZone said:

They are both mobile with great hands, Cadman looks slightly ahead build wise but both players read the play so well. Jeffo needs 6kg this pre-season and another 6-8 over the 2023 season and watch out.!!

Jeffer has already gone from 76 to 84 kg now and is 195/6 cm. May be Behind Cadman now but I don't think there will be much between the two when both are another pre  season. Both have enough natural ability to develop and use their skills early in their careers and Jeffer will be playing with some classy other forwards snd Cad's mates at Notth aren't too shabby.   MJ should get more opportunities when he breaks into the AFL team due to our superior mids and team stats. 
Meanwhile this MJ hype is allowing JVR to start to build up nicely and quietly without any pressure yet. L

1 hour ago, 58er said:

Jeffer has already gone from 76 to 84 kg now and is 195/6 cm. May be Behind Cadman now but I don't think there will be much between the two when both are another pre  season. Both have enough natural ability to develop and use their skills early in their careers and Jeffer will be playing with some classy other forwards snd Cad's mates at Notth aren't too shabby.   MJ should get more opportunities when he breaks into the AFL team due to our superior mids and team stats. 
Meanwhile this MJ hype is allowing JVR to start to build up nicely and quietly without any pressure yet. L

Cadman is at GWS.

But if we continue with our game style of kicking it into the forward pocket on top of our key forwards head, then Jefferson will find it tough. There is no evidence of  our superior mids giving our key forwards silver service. In fact Nick Larkey at North had it easier than our key forwards.

12 minutes ago, mo64 said:

Cadman is at GWS.

But if we continue with our game style of kicking it into the forward pocket on top of our key forwards head, then Jefferson will find it tough. There is no evidence of  our superior mids giving our key forwards silver service. In fact Nick Larkey at North had it easier than our key forwards.

We manage to hit Fritsch on the chest multiple times a game, perhaps it is a leading/spacing issue with our forwards as much as a delivery issue?

Edited December 7, 20222 yr by adonski