Brownlow betting probe

[Clintosaurus 7,838]

40 minutes ago, Demonstone said:

Paging @Clintosaurus!   

Hi.

Not surprised an ump is involved. Betting interests have way too much influence.

[daisycutter 29,604]

on top of everything else unresolved, this will ensure gil will never be able to handover to a successor 🤢

[old dee 23,781]

I keep saying it but until we get a replacement for Gil from outside the old boys club this and numerous other problems will continue. How many on going disasters is Gil saddled with now. He should go asap as his reign as CEO is riddled with poor performances. 

[Deecisive 1,709]

interesting because an umpire can perhaps give votes to a player that the bookies and others would typically not have backed which would increase the potential odds and returns.

[Ollie fan 3,370]

37 minutes ago, John Crow Batty said:

I have always believed the Brownlow has been thoroughly corrupted by gambling and criminal activity for a very long time. Now I am more convinced. Without going into the dark side we have openly witnessed mental gymnastics worthy of a cross between Gary Kasparov, Olga Korbut and Einstein to get Cripps off his damning tribunal charges. 

Mental gymnastics indeed. As I understood it he got off because no one had specifically called his action a “bump” until the tribunal did in its decision. Why that would make any difference to an action when Cripps hit with his body, with his arm tucked in, , in an action which was the very definition of a “bump” …….

 

It was a ridiculous decision.

 

This whole scandal is huge. As has already been said, if an umpire will leak the votes which have been given, presumably for gain, what else would they do?

[old dee 23,781]

23 minutes ago, Ollie fan said:

Mental gymnastics indeed. As I understood it he got off because no one had specifically called his action a “bump” until the tribunal did in its decision. Why that would make any difference to an action when Cripps hit with his body, with his arm tucked in, , in an action which was the very definition of a “bump” …….

 

It was a ridiculous decision.

 

This whole scandal is huge. As has already been said, if an umpire will leak the votes which have been given, presumably for gain, what else would they do?

The AFL is a seriously conflicted organisation. Only a deep clean out has any chance of changing things. Gils reign has bought Aussie rules to a low level with little respect left. 

[Demonstone 22,315]

More details have emerged about this disturbing story.

It appears that the umpire tried to flee police by running backwards and didn't stop until the copper yelled "Stand!".

[deejammin' 2,370]

1 hour ago, Clintosaurus said:

Hi.

Not surprised an ump is involved. Betting interests have way too much influence.

It’s also yet another reason to make the umpires 100% professional, salaried and tied to the AFL. To have outside contractors have such influence over the games results and the competitions biggest award is just asking for things like this to happen. It may not completely stop it but at least having someone whose primary profession and source of income is as an umpire increases the incentive not to do things like this. With the number of lawyers who umpire AFL as a side hustle I’m sure this umpire won’t struggle for representation, might even represent themselves 😜!

Edited November 14, 2022 by deejammin'

[Older demon 2,741]

For the AFL to say it didn't impact the Brownlow shows how far off the mark they are. Multiple bets were made based on information released resulting in wins. It appears it wasn't just about the Brownlow. In addition whether true or not the feeling will be that there was an awareness that Cripps was well-placed vote wise and it makes sense of the ridiculous lengths, Carlton went to in order to get Cripps off.

It had to happen sooner or later because the sheer volume of gambling on sports and the exotic bets lend themselves to this. Now an insider has broken the code and cheated. I was surprised that the maximum jail term is 10 years.

[Sir Why You Little 36,977]

The AFL and SEN love betting 

They shove it Down our throats Daily 

Disgraceful

[old dee 23,781]

34 minutes ago, Older demon said:

For the AFL to say it didn't impact the Brownlow shows how far off the mark they are. Multiple bets were made based on information released resulting in wins. It appears it wasn't just about the Brownlow. In addition whether true or not the feeling will be that there was an awareness that Cripps was well-placed vote wise and it makes sense of the ridiculous lengths, Carlton went to in order to get Cripps off.

It had to happen sooner or later because the sheer volume of gambling on sports and the exotic bets lend themselves to this. Now an insider has broken the code and cheated. I was surprised that the maximum jail term is 10 years.

Where gambling goes corruption follows. E.G. Crown. Gil expects the club's to get out of gambling venues but cling desperately to their sponsor money and allow an avalanche of betting ads at grounds etc.   My father used to say that is hypocritical but hardly new at the AFL.  

[Deeoldfart 8,005]

“Love the game, not the odds”

[Queanbeyan Demon 6,839]

4 hours ago, sue said:

Can you be sure the votes are all in sealed envelopes? These charges increase my suspicion that that isn't the case. Might also explain the ludicrous appeals in the Cripps case. 

A very well connected person told me in the early '80 that the whole sealed envelopes thing was BS. It's why Jack Hamilton had a smirk on his face when PWC wheeled the votes onto the stage at the SCBR.  

[Willmoy1947 4,081]

Who does the AFL answer to, for just such a catastrophic disgrace as this? All branches of the AFL  organisation are affected by this.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,218]

I must say I'm surprised that this thread hasn't gone absolutely ballistic.

Just consider this. 

We have an umpire , an umpire, arrested over the leaking of voting information for the AFL's most prestigious award and ...... the award is based on umpire's votes!

Further, as a couple of posters above have indicated, the possible wider implications of this are enormous.

This could go as far as questioning the integrity of the competition!

It is a bombshell ! 

 

[monoccular 17,413]

4 hours ago, deanox said:

There is a simple solution to this: make sports betting on categories where one person has full control or could have specific inside knowledge illegal, and only allow betting on categories where integrity cannot be entirely compromised by a single persons action.

So for Brownlow bet on player total, club totals and overall winners. No one person can know these outcomes unless envelopes are compromised, widespread collusion, etc. For individual match votes you could even have betting before that match has commenced but not after.

Bad luck if it reduces overall categories.

…. but it would adversely effect gambling revenue 😮😮😮

4 hours ago, sue said:

Can you be sure the votes are all in sealed envelopes? These charges increase my suspicion that that isn't the case. Might also explain the ludicrous appeals in the Cripps case. 

The entire “Cripps affair” shows that “AFL Integrity” is a complete oxymoron and this reinforces it. 

3 hours ago, poita said:

The AFL's rank hypocrisy and double standards when it comes to betting is off the charts.

It serves them right to have to deal with problems of this nature that are 100% of their own making.

 

$$$$$ speaks

3 hours ago, Seraph said:

The fact that an umpire has been arrested in relation to this makes it an absolutely huge story. If they were involved in this sort of corrupt behavior, what else might it have extended to? The voting process itself? Decisions on the field that may have influenced betting lines in games? Decisions that may have influenced games entirely?

Naturally, not making any direct allegations but it throws their entire umpiring career into dispute 

I would hope, that if this is proven, they won’t be able to umpire from Barwon Prison. 

2 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

Spot betting.

Intentionally designed to cultivate addiction.

Might as well have also been designed to cultivate corruption.

Corruption has always followed the gaming industry - just as surely it does people trafficking and prostitution. 

3 minutes ago, willmoy said:

Who does the AFL answer to, for just such a catastrophic disgrace as this? All branches of the AFL  organisation are affected by this.

🧹🗑

[DeeZone 9,671]

Personally I would like to see the chain of command in the AFL, who is responsible for the process and how such a failure of this magnitude could occur. There are going to be a lot of people scurrying around the AFL May also be unexpected departures, everyone needs to be scrutinised top to bottom. AFL Integrity has been questioned regarding legitimacy of the Draw how Cripps was allowed to win the appeal and now the Brownlow Medal and that is just off the top of the head. AFL is a shambles.!!!

[Demonstone 22,315]

The Herald-Sun has named the umpire as Michael Pell, thus muddying the Pell surname.

I'm surprised his name wasn't withheld so that a betting market could be framed as to his identity.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

3 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Arnold Rothstein isn't still alive, is he?

Arnold Rothstein will forever live on as "Nathan Detroit" in the musical "Guys and Dolls".

 

Now if you really want to google something, try Titanic Thompson, who was the basis for the character "Sky Masterson".

[Ollie fan 3,370]

The next question will be to look at the votes that that umpire has cast and see if there is any thing that was at all surprising.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

53 minutes ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

A very well connected person told me in the early '80 that the whole sealed envelopes thing was BS. It's why Jack Hamilton had a smirk on his face when PWC wheeled the votes onto the stage at the SCBR.  

Isn't it funny how every year, it seems the last few rounds of reading out the votes have the games ordered to provide maximum drama. Almost like someone already knew what the votes were.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

2 minutes ago, Ollie fan said:

The next question will be to look at the votes that that umpire has cast and see if there is any thing that was at all surprising.

A key defender got a vote. Probably what touched off the investigation.

[ANG13 2,062]

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

The AFL and SEN love betting 

They shove it Down our throats Daily 

Disgraceful

It would be interesting to see just how much money through betting companies SEN receive each year. It must almost keep them afloat and for that reason I would like to see it banned. I used to really enjoy SEN but find it hard to listen to anymore for a number of reasons. 

[Demonland 71,611]

 

[monoccular 17,413]

22 minutes ago, DeeZone said:

Personally I would like to see the chain of command in the AFL, who is responsible for the process and how such a failure of this magnitude could occur. There are going to be a lot of people scurrying around the AFL May also be unexpected departures, everyone needs to be scrutinised top to bottom. AFL Integrity has been questioned regarding legitimacy of the Draw how Cripps was allowed to win the appeal and now the Brownlow Medal and that is just off the top of the head. AFL is a shambles.!!!

Does a fish still rot from the head?

As an aside in the wash up from all this, the Downlow voting needs to be removed from the umpires who find it hard enough to sort of impartially (ideally) adjudicate the game, though who if anyone could be trusted to be impartial and honest?