Hawks racism allegations (merged thread)

[sue 9,141]

3 minutes ago, Kent said:

Excellent point CYB  Makes you wonder doesn't it?

If AFL had knowledge of the report 2 weeks ago It would have looked so much better if they had called the press conference and aired the allegations themselves  rather than waiting for a reporter to do it

Looks like the AFL waited to see if it could be buried

Interesting if Brisbane had to put their coach on ice before the prelim (or maybe even before playing us, depending on exact dates).  I think that may explain why the AFL sat on it till now at least.

[Kent 2,914]

Just now, sue said:

Interesting if Brisbane had to put their coach on ice before the prelim (or maybe even before playing us, depending on exact dates).  I think that may explain why the AFL sat on it till now at least.

So the AFL must have known Brisbane wouldn't make the semi !!!

[Mr Steve 3,820]

1 hour ago, Mel Bourne said:

 

If I learned this happened at our club, I honestly don’t think I could continue supporting them. 

If true, it’s not only the horrific racism and misogyny involved in the acts that deserve punishment, it’s that those involved in these incidents have butchered the reputation of a 120 year-old club and shattered the trust of thousands upon thousands of supporters. 

Aside from the people directly affected by this, I genuinely feel sorry for Hawthorn supporters who have now been thrown into a maelstrom of immorality through no fault of their own. 
 

 

 

 

 

You would want a total clean out, those involved and those who kept quite while it was allowed to happen. . The action of a few or maybe many is not the fault of the club or the supporter, their just left hold the can after the events. 

[Ugottobekidding 1,194]

Clarko will have to go. North will lose sponsors and players if Clarko stays. He is obviously an angry stain on the competition.

[layzie 33,991]

1 minute ago, Demonland said:

 

Yet to hear one Hawthorn person shut this down entirely. 

[Sir Why You Little 37,125]

10 minutes ago, Kent said:

what does it exist for? 

To give balanced reporting on many levels, throughout the Country. 
A lifeline for rural Australia

During National Disasters the ABC is onto it 24/7

Would you prefer Sky with Rowan Dean and Rita Panahi?

[hemingway 7,631]

1 hour ago, Kent said:

why has it taken so long to come out? Surely it must have ben knowledge to someone earlier than this

People choose to ignore things or maintain silence be they trivial or important for reasons that we can all deduce. The past tells us that. How often do we choose to keep silent on things we have witnessed, heard about or aware of. Truth telling can be dangerous, risky and sometimes best avoided. Most people want to maintain harmony and not speak up. Sadly, this behavioural response has consequences and can damage others, particularly victims of bullying, racism and abuse in all its forms.  Not to become involved is all to easy. 

[buck_nekkid 6,046]

45 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

It should have come out 2 weeks ago. If this taints the 2022 GF, then blame the AFL. 

Clarkson wouldn’t be employed by Naught 

The AFL put the report in the Cupboard 

Imagine it comes out whilst Fagan is still coach of a team in contention?  It almost had to wait until now, to provide a minimum of natural justice.  He has stepped aside.

on the behaviours involved, I would be horrified if it was us.  At least we have a strong and positive indigenous leadership (M Whelan) and a history of recruiting and supporting indigenous players and programs.

telling a young man his partner should have an abortion to focus on his footy is completely unacceptable.  This was only about 10 years ago….

this will be career ‘pausing’ (nothing is career ending in the AFL, look at Hird, Carey etc…)

 

[Mel Bourne 4,534]

10 minutes ago, Mr Steve said:

You would want a total clean out, those involved and those who kept quite while it was allowed to happen. . The action of a few or maybe many is not the fault of the club or the supporter, their just left hold the can after the events. 

Supporters at fault? That would be absurd to suggest. But the club? Well it’s how you define “club” isn’t it. Where does “club” begin and end in this case?

Anyway, I’m more talking about the betrayal of trust between club and supporter. There will absolutely be many people ditching their beloved team, for a while at least. I can already see it happening on various other forums. 
 

 

[deelusions from afar 1,861]

If the AFL had it three weeks ago the ARC might have had a different decision on the Thursday night!

[Sir Why You Little 37,125]

7 minutes ago, buck_nekkid said:

Imagine it comes out whilst Fagan is still coach of a team in contention?  It almost had to wait until now, to provide a minimum of natural justice.  He has stepped aside.

on the behaviours involved, I would be horrified if it was us.  At least we have a strong and positive indigenous leadership (M Whelan) and a history of recruiting and supporting indigenous players and programs.

telling a young man his partner should have an abortion to focus on his footy is completely unacceptable.  This was only about 10 years ago….

this will be career ‘pausing’ (nothing is career ending in the AFL, look at Hird, Carey etc…)

 

Who cares about the state of Fagan’s job

the lives of children were terminated against the will of the family. Relationships broken whilst Fagan was employed there. 
he has some serious explaining to do. Should have happened 2 weeks ago

[Willmoy1947 4,140]

3 hours ago, BW511 said:

I can't help but feel for North.

Poor buggers thought they had a chance to right the ship and now they likely won't have a coach and all those who requested trades based on the coach may now lose interest.

We could end up with Brisbane, North (& Essendon) without coaches and very little time to get people in or re-start a process.

There are huge consequences to this report across the entire league. There would be a lot of very nervous people in the AFL today!

 

Might as well bring up whoever is in charge of the tribunal and Brownlow as well.Have a really good clearance..

[Guest]

1 hour ago, binman said:

C'mon faulty, don't be that person.

This issue is too serious for culture wars palaver. It just distracts from the issue at hand

Leaving aside the polemics, if the allegations are true, what is your view on the situation (as opposed to your view on other's responses)?

 🙏 

[Ugottobekidding 1,194]

Good time for a clearance sale

[jnrmac 20,185]

A lot of allegations here are presented as fact.

Clearly horrendous if half true but knowing quite a lot of AFL footballers over the years and their journeys at football clubs I am struggling to understand how it could possibly happen.

We'd all like to see the outcomes of a proper investigation before rushing to judgement but needless to say if the allegations have any truth at all to them heads and careers should roll big time.

 

[Lucifers Hero 40,358]

I wonder what skeletons are in our closet in our treatment of indigenous players?  Didn't Davey, Wanaemirri, Jurrah (and maybe othres) have issues with Neeld? 

Wanaemirri didn't come back after 2011 and Jurrah lost his way.  Their departures may not in any way be connected to Neeld but there was some noise about his treatment of them at the time.  It leaked to the media and Davey had to publicly saw all was fine, nothing to see.

While we had the wonderful Jetta he was not the leader he was to become so his position at the time denied him a voice within the club that he later developed under Roos.

Edited September 21, 2022 by Lucifers Hero

[Mincho Mania 530]

1 hour ago, Mel Bourne said:

 

If I learned this happened at our club, I honestly don’t think I could continue supporting them. 

If true, it’s not only the horrific racism and misogyny involved in the acts that deserve punishment, it’s that those involved in these incidents have butchered the reputation of a 120 year-old club and shattered the trust of thousands upon thousands of supporters. 

Aside from the people directly affected by this, I genuinely feel sorry for Hawthorn supporters who have now been thrown into a maelstrom of immorality through no fault of their own. 
 

 

 

 

 

Pretty sure it was reported that when Aussie left it was due to being very unhappy with the club, hope it's nothing along those lines.

Be interesting to see where Kennett lines up in all this.

Could be a couple of players requesting trades to North having a change of heart, be happy for Logue to consider heading to us

[Ugottobekidding 1,194]

1 minute ago, Mincho Mania said:

Pretty sure it was reported that when Aussie left it was due to being very unhappy with the club, hope it's nothing along those lines.

Be interesting to see where Kennett lines up in all this.

Could be a couple of players requesting trades to North having a change of heart, be happy for Logue to consider heading to us

Wona left and went home after his father died. 

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

42 minutes ago, layzie said:

Yet to hear one Hawthorn person shut this down entirely. 

Wouldn’t Shaun, who was seen as an indigenous leader of the club been made aware of this? 

[Lucifers Hero 40,358]

1 minute ago, CYB said:

Wouldn’t Shaun, who was seen as an indigenous leader of the club been made aware of this? 

By whom? 

Unlikely to be the HFC staff involved.

And the affected players were new draftees and probably too scared to say anything to Burgoyne or other player leaders.

If anything it was Burgoyne's job to stay close to those players and unearth concerns when they happen.  That is what leaders do, anywhere and everywhere regardless of who what or where.

[PaulRB 6,411]

19 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

I wonder what skeletons are in our closet in our treatment of indigenous players?  Didn't Davey, Wanaemirri, Jurrah (and maybe othres) have issues with Neeld? 

Wanaemirri didn't come back after 2011 and Jurrah lost his way.  Their departures may not in any way be connected to Neeld but there was some noise about his treatment of them at the time.  It leaked to the media and Davey had to publicly saw all was fine, nothing to see.

While we had the wonderful Jetta he was not the leader he was to become so his position at the time denied him a voice within the club that he later developed under Roos.

The founder of our club (and the code) Tom Wills, spent time in Queensland, where he was involved in an attack on Gayiri people in Queensland, in response to the murder of his father.

Hopefully nothing since then.

Sad sad stuff.

[Demonland 73,140]

The start of Clarkson's tenure at North Melbourne has been delayed.

 

[Jibroni 5,009]

Bad decision by Brisbane to stand down Fagan, what if he is cleared of these allegations?

I wonder why the ABC did not hear both sides of the story before going public. Some people in the media would want to be very careful about what they say about this. Private conversations without any evidence of the actual conversation will have every lawyer lining up on behalf of Fagan and Clarko for damages for slander. Shocking if this is fact but I tend to think there are two sides to every story, especially emotive ones.

Edited September 21, 2022 by Jibroni

[george_on_the_outer 7,696]

1 minute ago, Jibroni said:

Bad decision by Brisbane to stand down Fagan, what if he is cleared of these allegations?

I wonder why the ABC did not hear both sides of the story before going public.

Probably because names were named in the report, but de-identified for public consumption.

[layzie 33,991]

Where does it say anywhere in the article that the AFL knew about this for 2 weeks and sat on it? The opening paragraph specifically says the following:

"The review document, handed to Hawthorn's senior management two weeks ago and now with the AFL integrity unit."

There is no mention of this being handed to them at that time. This is a serious matter and comments made need to be dealing strictly in facts and not between the lines. I understand many have agendas but can we hold off porking things up based on how we've all chosen to read the article?