POSTGAME: SF vs Brisbane

[Mincho Mania 530]

34 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

They asked the question. Won't happen.

It was meant to be a joke

[Lord Nev 13,512]

1 minute ago, Mincho Mania said:

It was meant to be a joke

Sums up Essendon atm then doesn't it.

[John Crow Batty 8,731]

21 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Sometimes you have to rob Peter to pay Paul.

We moved Petty forward to take contested grabs or bring the ball to ground. We pushed one up to the back of contested stoppages, which exposed Lever to being accountable.

It was real roll the dice stuff, we can point to Petty kicking a goal and creating another but we can’t ignore it creates issues the other way especially to the chaos kick from clearances. The coaches would have been aware of the risks

Joel Smith says hi. Almost like for like.

Edited September 10, 2022 by John Crow Batty

[Boots and all 998]

2 hours ago, Deecisive said:

i would like to nominate myself as our new forward coach at half the price of the current guy, how hard is it to say kick it long into the pocket. Job done and i can even do that from home.   I cannot recall when we last played 4 quarters of football, even last year we had handy leads to see them evaporate and opposition take the lead, but our 3rd quarters were some of our best football, gawn/Jackson to oliver or trac, who would either handpass to each other or boot long and reasonably direct into an open forward line. i dont recall too many of those chains in the last few months. Even when we beat the lions last time we lost the last quarter by a lot. we seem to take our foot of the pedal,  but last year and even earlier this year we were able to reassert ourselves, this latter half of the year we just seem to stop. what has been our biggest winning margin compared to other sides. We have a massive number of inside 50's so we cannot say we are purely defensive we have lots of chances but our forward approach is crap. BBB is a goal kicker but not able to take a mark in a pack of 6 or more. one on one or leading is his strength, we are trying to make him play our kick to the forward pocket game, that is not his style or how to get value out of him. We have too may players who move the ball on too slowly. Sparrow for one constantly gets the ball and ignores simple short passes to open players, he instead holds up play and eventually kicks long down the line. not great football.  though i must admit some of our short passing has been pretty poor. Goody unfortunately does not seem to like to change things, does not change our playing style, does not change players even when they are not playing well, does not make a lot of changes in a game to change their flow. We have a brief window of opportunity with the great playing group we have and new players coming through if Goody does not learn to manage change better then we will miss that window of opportunity.

...I don't understand why we recruited him then. If his forward craft is unsuited to our style, then why didn't we seek a player with the right attributes? Maybe with TMc in the side his role changes.

[layzie 32,522]

Battered, beat and scarred. 

[Dr. Gonzo 23,602]

22 minutes ago, John Crow Batty said:

Joel Smith says hi. Almost like for like.

Almost but without the skill or nous.

[CarnTheDees 52]

10 hours ago, BoBo said:

Gotta say, I really hate the umpire excuse. I hate it when all teams use it, but I especially hate it when we use it. Should have buried the game in the first quarter. Should have kicked another 5-6 goals easily throughout the game. 
 

We let them get easy goals at the ends of quarters. There’s the game right there. 
 

We absolutely choked and all ire should be directed at us for many reasons.

Completely agree. FWIW I thought we had a charmed run with the umps early.

[The heart beats true 17,647]

Watching Casey one of Turner, Smith or Tomlinson need to become our third defender. Petty to go forward and work with JVR, Fritta and Kozzy for the next decade. Tom Mac to come back next year.

All of a sudden our forward line looks a lot more dynamic. I love what the Casey boys are offering up today. A nice little reminder that we’ve got options.

[Deestinga2 51]

32 minutes ago, layzie said:

Battered, beat and scarred. 

Battered and beaten id agree with, not sure about scared.

Not sure if any of us know how beaten up we actually were. Lots of broken preseason training, alot more injuries through the season than last year so our fitness at this end of the year is compromised.

Our depth isnt what we all think it is either. We played Trac on one leg cause non of the blokes at Casey could fill his roll even half as good.

[titan_uranus 24,479]

6 hours ago, Webber said:

Two associated salient facts that beg for explanation - 

1. On a ladder of ‘second half only’ results from Round 11, we came 16th, above only North and West Coast. This is frankly staggering considering how obvious and contrary it is to fact 2.
2. Ladder of first halves for same Rounds, top 4. 
 
Which confirms the following. Firstly, many of the factors people are blaming for our season demise are simply not a problem in the first half of those games - skill, pressure, forward connection, etc. Secondly, something went drastically and horribly awry in our planning and processes for the second half of the season to be a bottom 3 performer in second halves of games. 
 

Anyone any theories? And I’d beware making statements about fact 1 that are contradicted by fact 2. 

Those two stats are really interesting reading, although not exactly surprising.

I think the answer is a combination of the following (as always, it's never one single thing):

1. Fitness - we just weren't fit enough to run games out. Last year we led the league with our running power, this year it felt the opposite
2. Injuries - we carried unfit players and had too many players in/out of the side, even though some of those injuries only saw players miss 1-3 games at a time, we kept having ins and outs. Last year we felt a lot more stable
3. Hunger - it just cannot be denied that the players' internal motivation to do it all again this year was less than last year. It just has to be. No matter what they all say about "doing it for our fans" or "doing it at the G", when we needed to bed down and train hard over summer or in the depths of winter, or when we needed to gut run in second halves, we just didn't have the same motivation to do so
4. Favouritism - significantly more pressure on us. We were favourites with the bookies this year in, I think, every single game except the Geelong game. Every week people expected us to win, the more so after we went 10-0 and there were "undefeated" talks. Again, no matter what they say about it, that brings pressure
5. Hunted/hunter - this year every single side set themselves to play us. Prime time games, bigger crowds, other sides got these games against us and focused on them and at times adapted to beat us
6. Planning - last year stability and predictability led us to the flag. Goodwin, the coaches, the FD, whoever, backed in those things again this year. We put a lot of faith in the 23 premiership players (bar Bowey, it seems) to come good
7. Fixture - we had a brutal second half of the year fixture-wise. Post-bye, we played 6 eventual finalists, plus 9th and 11th, and Adelaide in Adelaide. We also had six straight games in different venues across four states/territories, four interstate games plus a trip to Geelong, and a few short breaks mixed in

[jnrmac 19,871]

That should be the last game BBB ever plays for Melbourne

He's not the sole reason we lost but he is finished. JVR or Joel Smith would have provided a better target. He is like a mechano man in molasses AND with concrete hands

And as for Goodwin waiting until the last 5 minutes of the season to move Petty forward.....hang your head in shame. Censors won't let me say what I really think

Goodwin admitted in his presser that he knows we were beaten the same way on at least 6 occasions after failing to defend a solid lead AND that we were run down with the worst last quarter record bar WCE and NM AND that he was unable to do anything about it 'in season'.

Total wasted season. Not one positive to take away from that garbage we endured bar maybe 3 or 4 games. Can' t think of a player that improved (maybe Viney and Brayshaw) but there are at least 8 who went backwards including Sparrow, ANB, Spargo, BBB, Lever, Jackson, Rivers, Salem,  

It has been said repeatedly that our inability to finish off sides would kill us and it has destroyed us.

What a horrible end to a frustrating season. Heads should roll.

 

 

[titan_uranus 24,479]

Individual wise, the most alarming drop offs for me have been Salem, Jackson and Rivers (in that order).

Salem might be playing through pain but if so that's not good enough from him or the club, he shouldn't have been playing, particularly with Bowey fit and playing well for Casey. If he's been fit and pain-free, his form has been diabolical and a mile off last year.

In Round 1 Jackson looked like he was going to take a step as a forward this year when he clunked that mark and roosted that goal. Never happened. His inability to impact the game when not in the ruck made our lives much harder this year. 

If Rivers had anything in his first two years, he had composure. That seemed to desert him this year. Fumbly, panicky, making bad decisions. Again, not really excusable with Bowey playing VFL.

[jnrmac 19,871]

3 hours ago, Webber said:

For all of you who reckon it’s about game plan, tactics, method, personnel, unwarranted faith in certain players, etc, please explain why our first halves from round 11 onward were premiership standard, and our second halves for the same period, 16th in the AFL. It’s just not logical to blame things that are proven to work for 2 quarters, which if applied equally for the other 2 quarters, would have put us in the Grand Final no doubt. There’s only ONE sensible question to be answered. Just one. Why were our first halves so gruesomely unsustainable from round 11 onwards? 

One answer to this is that the first half is not the same as the 2nd half. And by that I mean opp coaches make changes. When leading you re less likely to make changes.

And when opp coaches make changes to their structure, ball movement, pressure etc we were unable to deal with it. Totally static in the coaches box and we try to manage leads.

And once a side knows their opponent can be beaten in the 2nd half it becomes self-fulfilling when they 'get a sniff' . We are the champions of keeping opposition in games because we never put the foot down. We try to manage leads. Its infuriating.

In our last in-season game against Brisbane they won the second half. What message do you think Fagan gave to his players at half time?

Last night we gave up 5 goals I think in the final minute of each quarter. WTF is that?

 

Edited September 10, 2022 by jnrmac

[jnrmac 19,871]

3 hours ago, Sargent Shultz said:

I beg to differ, In his "Golden Years" at North he had Larkey a 198 cm 45 goal + CHF as his foil, and at his best matches at Melbourne he had TMac. Ben is not a pack marking CHF and needs another big body to take some heat. Who has he had this year? ANB, Jake, Spargo, Kozzie, Fritz, and more recently sometimes Max. We are so underdone in height in the forward half- given our game plan is to simply "bomb it to packs"

Really? Your memory is shot.

BBBs best years or "salad days" were when he kicked over 60 goals - 2017, 2018 and 2019.....

Larkey played 2 games in 2017 and kicked 0 goals, didn't play in 2018 and in 2019 kicked 26 goals from 12 games.

Edited September 10, 2022 by jnrmac

[Deecisive 1,709]

1 hour ago, Boots and all said:

...I don't understand why we recruited him then. If his forward craft is unsuited to our style, then why didn't we seek a player with the right attributes? Maybe with TMc in the side his role changes.

we recruited him because he can kick goals, but we are telling him to kick goals with our crappy strategy of kicking to the pocket where he is surrounded by packs of players. He contest, his marking around the ground has been good. we should be delivering the ball to him on a lead not to a pack'

[kev martin 9,450]

I agree with many posters about MFC being able to dominate the first half and then get dominated in the 2nd.

They new it was a pattern early in the season and still couldn't change it. Where was our leadership and guidance? 

Some in the crowd yesterday knew we were done, others wanted us to reset.

I was amazed at how long it took to make changes and to show desperation. 

[demon3165 2,522]

54 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

That should be the last game BBB ever plays for Melbourne

He's not the sole reason we lost but he is finished. JVR or Joel Smith would have provided a better target. He is like a mechano man in molasses AND with concrete hands

And as for Goodwin waiting until the last 5 minutes of the season to move Petty forward.....hang your head in shame. Censors won't let me say what I really think

Goodwin admitted in his presser that he knows we were beaten the same way on at least 6 occasions after failing to defend a solid lead AND that we were run down with the worst last quarter record bar WCE and NM AND that he was unable to do anything about it 'in season'.

Total wasted season. Not one positive to take away from that garbage we endured bar maybe 3 or 4 games. Can' t think of a player that improved (maybe Viney and Brayshaw) but there are at least 8 who went backwards including Sparrow, ANB, Spargo, BBB, Lever, Jackson, Rivers, Salem,  

It has been said repeatedly that our inability to finish off sides would kill us and it has destroyed us.

What a horrible end to a frustrating season. Heads should roll.

 

 

BB really got all his goals at North as a leading FF what do we do Pockets in packs 3 forwards contesting one pill, it's been poor coaching all year in regards to the forward line and a lack of imagination.  

One could nearly put Petty up forward, Turner to the backline, JVR with BB, out would go Spargo, but let"s see who they trade or pick up, all I hope they change their thinking on forward play.

[Jaded No More 66,914]

6 hours ago, IRW said:

I am not sure which of the two is worse.

Goodwin was at least a very good player,the other one has absolutely no talent whatsoever 

I thought she sang the anthem really well. 
 

What the hell are we even talking about? 

[Tom Dyson 1,633]

I am now utterly convinced that we have to try Petty in the forward line.

He is elite in the backline, no question about that, but our forward line looked more dangerous in the last three minutes of the game when Petts was down there than it did for the preceding four quarters.

We know Tomlinson can play that third tall role in the back line, so I think unless we can acquire another genuine key forward, the question has to be asked.  

[IRW 1,372]

26 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

I thought she sang the anthem really well. 
 

What the hell are we even talking about? 

She butchered the song and was mentioned in a semi pun  re Goodren/ Goodwin/ Delta.

My response ( I wanted to reference how awful she is) was meant to respond to that post.

My " bad" .Very confusing.

Why is she so bad? 

If you can't sing " tonal" then at least be musical enough to know your limitations and sing the dreary song straight and let us get on to the reason we're at the footy. 

It's got nothing to do with nationhood btw

[von 1,493]

8 hours ago, Webber said:

That’s how it would appear. But can it be that simple? I’m inclined to think it can’t be, because if so, it’d be one of the greatest failures of fundamental preparation I can recall. Mental fatigue a factor maybe. Goody suggested as much. Either way, it’s just a staggering stat. 

Injuries don’t really factor into prep if they aren’t soft tissue. You can just have bad luck. The difference between a good run and a bad run may be our last two years.

[Demon Disciple 11,552]

40 minutes ago, Tom Dyson said:

I am now utterly convinced that we have to try Petty in the forward line.

What really irks me is that with 2 minutes left, we played more attacking than we had done all year. With the game gone, that’s when Goody finally makes a change……………too little too late. At half time we could all see that our tall target up forward was failing dismally.

The coaching group needs to relinquish this stubborn vice-like grip on trying to defend, and adopt a more attacking game style. We were boring for this entire finals series. New tactics are needed, as we have the offensive weapons, we’re just trying to suffocate it out of our game.

[von 1,493]

6 hours ago, Bozo said:

Goodwin's position is now untenable. The responsibility for that loss and others throughout the season rests firmly at his feet. You cannot blame the players or injuries or bad luck; it's appalling, arrogant coaching. An inability to react and adapt  to what's right in front of your face. No contingency just stubborn whipping the dead horse for some egotistical high.

I am prepared to put forward my share to pay Simon out. If the rest of the dissapointed members feel so inclined, it would be easy to raise the cash and it would mean not having to put up with that crap for the remainder of SG's contract.

Of highest importance is the mandatory elevation and securing of Adem Yze to Senior coach ASAP. We must not hesitate as he is likely to go elsewhere should we dawdle. This is a crucial moment in the clubs history.

A cleanout of all support coaches so that Yze might coose his own dream team.

At the very least take a poll of all the members who have paid to endure that garbage as to their preference of coach going forward.

Untenable? Struth

[von 1,493]

6 hours ago, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

Lets keep this very direct and too the point, numerous posters have laid it bare and it rings true. We paid the price for not rewarding the Casey players form this year.

Players were playing injured throughout the year and not properly rested and rehabed.

In game tactical manoeuvres were not executed, our F50 connection absolutely non existent, generally utter rubbish really.

The only positive this year has been Casey.

The MFC has failed miserably this year and the Coaches and Fitness Department have to accept what they have coming to them.

We tried lots of players. They weren’t better

[dees189227 11,975]

I still feel angry today. The only thing that will make me feel better is if freo win tonight